What do you think?
Why would you bother? Just buy a gun, idiot.
>>29728310
depends what you mean by "master"
are you talking about 10th dan rank or just enough proficiency to wield them properly?
>>29728324
Guns are not melee weapons.
I want a real answer.
>>29728371
>what is pistol whipping
>>29728368
By "master", I mean use them proficiently enough to defeat opponents wielding melee weapons with greater reach (swords, spears, staffs, etc.)
>>29728395
that weird azn war whip as to be close.
>>29728310
PROBABLY not!
Remember, there are a LOT of weird melee weapons out there. Exp out of Asian melee weapons, Sai are probably about a medium rockwall hardness factor.
It's easier to master something which requires dexterity near your hand. As dexterity is pushed further out on the weapon, away from your wrists/hands, it becomes way harder to master manipulation of that weapon. Also Sais, for the most part, already use common human movements. Imagine even mastering a bow or spear, which requires mostly uncommon, unnatural body movement to manipulate the weapon. Add the need to manipulate the weapon accurately and powerfully. Melee weapons which require uncommon body movement are super hard to actually master.
Now back to a pair of Sai, they use very common wrist and arm movement. You could probably nearly master their use by simply practicing combinations of unrelated martial arts moves with the sai in your hand.
>>29728381
Pretty sure the guy wielding Sais would win against a guy using his gun as a blunt melee weapon.
You simply have options with the Sai, as it is ideal for both offense and defense if you know what you are doing.
>>29728429
It's more of a flail, but still not very user friendly looking.
>>29728432
Yes, but you still need to be able to counter the fact your opponents will have a reach advantage on you.
Also, you have considerably less surface to block with compared to say a sword.
>>29728395
well that obviously depends more on the skill of your opponent.
a higher ranked kobudoka could easily whoop a beginner or intermediate kendoka.
sai can be very effective against swords. that's one reason they were used historically.
other reasons were they were not restricted to the nobility, and as blunt weapons they were more durable and cheaper to manufacture.
they wouldn't have ever become popular if they were unreasonably difficult to use.
at the same time all skill being equal a sword is a much more effective weapon.
>>29728462
That was my favorite moment in "Hero", where the Japanese guy gets stuck with a similar weapon (3 section staff) by accident. In the process, he injures himself trying to use it.
the crossguard is plasma.
>>29728548
TFW the 3 section staff, for obvious reasons of sheer impracticability, will never exist in the "Star Wars" universe.
Are you guys even trying?
>>29728575
VIBRO three section staff...
>>29728606
Vibro dragon dildo
>>29728630
Well if you aren't going to take this discussion seriously...
>>29728592
"What the hell am I looking at?"
>>29728853
looks like a spoon on a stick
>>29728432
They blend with Shotokan. If you have good basic Shotokan then they fit with little effort
>poke with side that has 3 pointy ends
>kill enemy
>I am master now.
>>29728498
Rather use a sai than a sword to block. Seeing as the sai is perfect for locking up enemy weapon very easily. Plus eith there being two weapons, you can deflect or lock with one, while stabbing with the other. Clearly you have no martial arts training.
>>29729553
He typed, spreading cheeto dust all over his keyboard.
>>29729530
sai are blunt weapons
>>29728310
Because they're shit to begin with, just learn that Filipino two baton fighting style
>>29729584
They also have a point and are used for thrusting
>>29729584
They are suprsingly versatile though. They were effectively early leo tools and signs of authority. They are lethal in the punch reversed and really effective in subduing. In fact they can be used as 'handcuffs'
They compliment standard Shotokan blocks and punches and if necessary have several lethal uses.
An interesting weapon more practical and less fantastical than most of the ninja shit.
>>29729610
thrusting.
not stabbing.
you don't stab with a sai any more than you stab with a baton or truncheon
>>29729599
>that Filipino two baton fighting style
Like Daredevil does?
>>29729626
it just annoys me when people act like experts when they've only seen sai used on Ninja Turtles and that one Jennifer Garner movie.
>>29729630
Agree. Although a jab from the point with the force of a no pull punch behind it could easily be lethal. Equally reversed from the pommel. In either block along the outside of the arm they defend well and there are many trapping possibilities with the guards on the wrists and elbows that allow the prong to be used as a power lever to subdue...culminating in utilising the two sai interlocked as cuffs.
Perfect for making an arrest which is what they were for.
>>29729630
They have a fine point and were known to penetrate and kill
The jute was used as a police weapon, sai were primarily Okinawan weapons
>>29729648
Hello troll but in fact own a nice pair and spend several year on intervarsity Shotokan teams....so I'll pass thanks on a plain old suck my balls. I have no clue what movie you mean and never watched any ninja turtles....sorry.
>>29728592
>A throwing knife you can actually retrieve
Sweet
>>29729684
>They have a fine point
no, they don't.
>>29729626
>early leo tools
People never realize this. How did they get so intractably tied to ninjas? Is it just because of TMNT?
Given their original purpose, how much of the old "technique" was simply pummeling the ever loving shit out of somebody until they're subdued?
>>29729708
Most taper from the base of the shaft to the tip and would easily penetrate soft tissue
>>29728434
>pull out Sais
>guy with gun pulls out gun
>"FOR M'LADY!" You scream, jiggling at a speedy 3mph
>shot and killed 3 steps into your one-man Charge of the Euphoria Brigade.
>>29728530
Are you thinking of Jet Li's "Fearless?"
>>29729717
They just fit with Shotokan block and punches perfectly. I can see how they were extremely practical for their purpose. The pommel punch is devastating and then apply to wrist. The main problem is not so much causing damage but not causing so much damage you kill the person you are trying to subdue. I've never fully understood why they were supposed to carry a third one though. The whole throwing thing does not wash. I suspect it was to complete the handcuff lock with two and the third shutting it.
>>29729766
They would throw them to injure people, Okinawan police didn't get charged with excessive force and sai weren't only used by police
>>29728310
They are not that hard to pick up if you have good Shotokan basics. So no far from the hardest I would say.
/thread
>>29729737
he said as a melee weapon
>>29729797
I don't see what throwing would achieve. I do see how when you have the culprits wrists locked between the guards of two sai as cuffs that you could close it with a third....thus the curve that evolved but I am just guessing. Throwing makes little sense...if that was the case why not just a rock instead?
>>29729822
Shoot him at point-blank then.
>>29729822
They are not that hard to pick up as a melee weapon if you have good Shotokan basics. So no far from the hardest I would say.
/thread
>>29729835
you are completely missing the point of this discussion
>>29729847
im not the OP, but i do agree that they wouldnt be too difficult to pick up. wouldnt be my weapon of choice tho
Enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY68wFAZ81o
Sai Kata no 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsMjsp5KqW4
Shotokan kata 1
Fits like a glove. Not hard.
European fencing takes many many years more.
Gunkata is the hardest to master, as it incorporates long range and melee fighting skills.
>>29729832
If you've ever thrown one you'll know, its pretty easy to stick them, there were even double pointed sai designed specifically to throw
You are thinking of these as a less lethal weapon like a baton but they weren't, people would die in duels against people with sai, they are lethal weapons
I don't like the guy doing sai kata no 1 by the way...he has no snap or vigour. 5/10
>>29729879
Sticking? Dude sai are blunt. They certainly are lethal if that is the intent but their use is as a subduing and arrest tool. If you want lethal get a spear.Throwing them makes no sense.
I'd find it harder to fight with a handful of lightbulbs or something.
>>29729911
You ever throw knives or axes?
Try throwing a sai and you'll be able to get it to stick in a tree
Seriously do some research into them, years ago I read a book about them in the library, they aren't one dimensional clubbing weapons
>>29729962
the difference is knives and axes are sharp
![Outfitnew1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/7gFFA2L.jpg "Outfitnew1[1].jpg")
My guess for hardest to master is the scythe. Unwieldy for all but its intended purpose, and surprisingly short reach for its length. It would take much dedication and experimentation to figure out a way to use it effectively in melee combat.
>>29729940
Nobody cares about your improvised weapon mastery build Ted.
>>29728371
>What is mosin bayonet
I heard Joseph Stallin would challenge all that oppose him to a saber fight and he'd use mosin bayonets to kill each coward that challenged him
>>29729976
OK, continue to choose to be ignorant
Pro tip, serious throwing knives are dull only coming to a narrow tip for safety reasons
>>29730000
>narrow tip
the point on a sai is no sharper than a safety hammer
>>29729977
Of course, you can reposition the blade to create a makeshift halberd and voila! Peasant uprising. Okinawans were far from the only ones to repurpose farm tools
![Polish_scythemen_1863[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/vP5zxep.png "Polish_scythemen_1863[1].png")
>>29730024
forgot pic
>>29729977
>It would take much dedication and experimentation to figure out a way to use it effectively in melee combat.
mount the blade like a spear
>>29730017
I'm sure you are correct, master sai historian, I bet all sai were made exactly like your 20 dollar training tools were too
>>29728548
It's more than just plasma. You can put your finger through a plasma arc from a stick or mig welder. The light saber from Star Wars is more like a force field beam, which just happens to emit plasma at a higher melting points of the materials in that realm/universe. Say 20000F?
>>29728310
Flexible weapons are inarguably the hardest to learn, they are usually the last weapons to be introduced to a student after they get things like sticks swords and spears down
The hardest melee weapon to actually master is the Pen.
Think about how much more difficult it will be to deflect a spear with just a click pen.
Or to use a pen as makeshift handcuffs.
Or as an effective shuriken.
Pen is the most difficult melee weapon to actually master.
>>29729962
You fucking would be ninja idiot. If you think sai and Shotokan is 'one dimensional clubbing' and you think throwing your carnie fair tat at a tree means that you have any knowledge of value I suspect that you have already vanished so far up your own hole that you last saw daylight months ago.
>>29730052
Nice carnie tat. You are full blown ninja now?
Sai are blunt despite your possession of those ludicrous objects. Otherwise the reverse pommel punch would set you up to stab yourself.
Now put your ninja suit on and run up a tree with your toys..
>>29730106
>doesn't know sai were used as throwing weapons too
>hurr you don't know anything ninja
Shotokan karate is one aspect of how they are used, but not the whole
>>29730131
>triggered by being wrong
Its OK, we can't all do research before posting
>>29730087
Fuck it what about the ninja paperclip. You can straighten on out and throw it at a tree thus making you an unstoppable ninja power of one by buying a box of paperclips..
>>29730052
and I'm sure you are correct, master guy who years ago read a book about them in the library, I bet all sai were made exactly like your 20 dollar Chinese mall ninja trinkets were too
>>29730149
Posting a sai that is squared off doesn't mean they all were, sai have a wide variety of shapes and uses, one of which was being thrown
>>29730144
Neither can you do a sai kata or any Shotokan kata but you do possesses as completely useless pair of objet d'art there. You'll need to buy some sai to learn a kata. Learn Shotokan first though....bye now.
Th pommel is used as a primary punch with the prong available to protect the outside of the arm in a block. Do that with a sharpened sai or even worse a bladed sai and you will set yourself up for a stabbing or even worse a lacerated arm and a stabbing.
But you knew that - right?.
QED nice ninja wall hangers. Begin again.
>>29730171
>Th pommel is used as a primary punch with the prong available to protect the outside of the arm in a block
this
sai are used more like tonfa than daggers
>>29730162
bullshit. First hand historical sauce on throwing sai or fuck off and die. Cheerio.
>>29729835
Lel
>>29730171
>shotokan karate was the only way sai were used
Look at how many historical sai were narrow at the tip
Does shotokan teach the use of the manji sai or carrying three sai at once? They were used like that historically but if its not in your kata it must be wrong
>>29729835
>>29729737
>Pull out sai
>Charge guy
>Within twenty feet, reach him before he can pull out his gun, and fire
>Stab the motherfucker
>>29730202
On mobile so let me see if one of these work
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bporeQLORXI
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bporeQLORXI
Its pretty well known, I'm not sure how you've heard of sai but didn't know they were also thrown
>>29730217
Read the fucking thread before you start wanking on about your ninja toys. Clue. Handcuffs. Third to lock it and control.
Fucking ninja bullshit. Get a pair of sai and learn a martial art instead of throwing shit at trees FFS. The tip is used both in a flip strike to the opponents skull (lethal category) or to a joint, bridge of noise, knee, ankle, etc, There is also a forward punch with range (lethal) to the sternum using the blunt tip.
You know sweet fuck all.
>>29730267
bullshit. First hand historical sauce on handcuff sai or fuck off and die. Cheerio.
>>29730291
You are about 12-14 years old and a fucking idiot to claim any knowledge on sai and even question that sai were used as cuffs as it is widely documented - in particular in protocols for arrest of someone of higher status. They are available in Japanese.
Why do kids have to shit all over everything with ninja crap.
Please for the sake of human knowledge and learning fuck off.
>>29730373
>no sauce
>look how right I am
OK kiddo, you've got school in the morning
>this whole thread
>>29728324
first post best post
>>29729575
#savage
>>29730253
See, if you weren't in a faggy ass art like shotokan you would learn how to actually use sai instead of dance with a pale imitation of them
>>29730440
Put your ninja suit on and sit there throwing shit at trees. You can't use them and you can't fight with them unless your opponent is an immobile tree at a set distance. Your persistence in being wrong and knowing nothing is genuinely autistic. As regards Shotokan, It is an excellent sport and I highly recommend it. Personally my solution to you and your ninja toy bullshit would be a firm kick in the arse and a word with your mother in the bedroom about your behaviour,
>>29730502
>herp a derp, I can't back up my autistic claims in the least but I know it all!
Go watch some more naruto so you can learn more about Japanese weapons
No, it's just a shitty dagger, you fucking faggot weeaboo.
TFW you will never meet a woman who knows how to wield the War Fan.
>>29729630
>you don't stab with a sai any more than you stab with a baton or truncheon
If you can't stab someone with baton then you need to lift more.
>>29730401
OP here.
As of this moment, you two are both on Double Secret Probation!
