So, looks like China has managed to build and mas-issue an OICW-like weapon weighting about 5kg fully loaded, and being compact enough for even their smaller guys to use as standard rifle.
Why cant America?
And it has even corner-shot, in addition to that.
>>29571934
>5kg mass issue weapon with integrated grenade launcher
Ha-ha no. I don't see the need for EVERY soldier to carry one of these fuckers everywhere they go, especially if they're going to have to make a billion of these. One of these per squad? Maybe. It's not even a niche weapon, m4 with a m230/320 is about the same as this minus the retarded cornershit.
So how much is Ching Cong paying you?
>>29572065
One per fire-team, apparently.
So instead of making all these weapons and parading them around, why don't the China destabalize some far away country and put their military to an actual test? Get some combat experience in. Iron out inevitable bugs that'll pop up in logistics and coordination?
>>29572101
Yeah the Chinese have fireteams proportional to that of other militaries. So like 40-50 men for each one
>>29572103
Because China's leaders are merchants first, and generals second.
This might change with their current President, tho. But all previously valued stable international environment, so that they could make money.
>>29571934
>Single shot bolt action.
>>29571962
>heavy as fuck with unnecessary features
>sight ridiculously high over bore
>bulky as fuck and awkward ergos
>computerized equipment leading to more to go wrong in the field
>>29572122
Chinese actually invented the whole Fireteam concept, actually.
They usually have 3 back when their squads were 9 men.
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/gung-ho-the-communist-origins-of-the-marine-corps-famous-slogan-379eacc4ce91#.86lz5g5vz
>Gung Ho! The Communist Origins of the Marine Corps’ Famous Slogan
>Maoist tactics, organization and philosophies influenced the U.S. Marines
>>29571934
The thing with the ZH-05 is that the 20mm launcher and has to be manually loaded. The ZH-05 also does not have smart rounds or the stopping power of the OICW's successor, the XM-25, so it can't even airburst. It's chopped down so much that you're better off just getting a normal rifle and slapping on the 30mm underbarrel launcher.
>>29572145
What about a falling block action?
>>29571934
On first glance, I think it's the bastard love child of the L85A_ and the HK416.
It's got the worst features of both.
>>29572145
Wait, it doesn't have airburst rounds? Then what the fuck is the point?
>>29572143
It's a joke Zhang.
>In time of war, Chinese troops move in small groups no larger than 40-50,000
>>29572136
Implying height over bore matters.
>>29572172
It looks like they do, but all their grenades are preprogrammed and are far less sophisticated than the shells the XM-25 uses, both to save on cost and pack in more explosive.
>>29572145
>The ZH-05 also does not have smart rounds
It does, tho.
This was one of the main reasons for developing this gun and making it a single shot bolt action, actually.
They wanted to have a bigger explosive load for their HE Airburst by having three seperate single role grenades (HEAB, HEDP and HE-Flechette), each manually loaded before the firing. With a mag-fed grenade launcher, they have to use multipurpose grenades that can be programmed for either role - and thus needed more electronics that further reduces the explosive loads. As with mag-feg GLs, the soldier cant just switch out grenade types on the go and have to make do with a mag filled with jack of all trades aces of none instead.
The Chinese discovered that problem when they tested prototypes that were mag-fed initially. And other problems, such as missfeeds can also be solved by that change.
>>29572143
The chinese invented a lot of things. doesn't mean they're good at those things.
>>29572231
I'm triggered by that pic
>>29572251
>implying that means the chinese are bad at those things
You would do well not to underestimate them
>>29572188
>this post
>>29572132
That is for the GP dumbass.
>>29571934
>literally an AK design with a bunch of shit on top of it
lmao
>>29572251
The Commie Guerrilla's performance against the Japanese occupational forces by using these tactics were the reason why the Marine Raider Captain, who was back then in China as attache, was so impressed by it and imported it to the USMC.
He also imported that Gung-Ho shit, which is, loosely translated, basically a communist warcry about how everyone has to work together to kill them capitalist imperialist pigs and shit.
>>29572143
>https://medium.com/war-is-boring/gung-ho-the-communist-origins-of-the-marine-corps-famous-slogan-379eacc4ce91#.86lz5g5vz
Who the fuck wrote this bullshit?
Mao's (or fucking Peng Dehuai really) tactics and that of Chiang Kai shek and some of the better warlords stemmed from two sources: German/Russian advisors in 1920's-30's, who taught the Chinks storm tactics. From there the Chinks built what they knew.
Hence the obsession with grenade throwing and infiltrating weakpoints in enemy lines during 30's-50's Chink infantry tactics.
>>29572270
>noguns
>Making retarded OICW style box guns
That's so 1990s.
>>29572267
Nah. I'll underestimate them until they can smooth out all the blatant corruption up and down the command line and when they actually get some real experience under their belts. Until then, it's like a big thug off the streets, ranting how he's big and bad in the ring, while never having to fight a real boxer before.
ZH-05 is basically OICW-light. Less capable than the XM29 or the XM25 in Airburst and CDTE, but light enough to be issued as standard support weapon in a squad without sacrificing a carbine or a rifleman's capabilities.
Their XM25 equivalent is the QLU-11 35mm long range semi-automatic grenade launcher, which is also equipped with fire control computer sights and carried around with support squads to take out enemy cover from afar, as well as to conduct counter-sniper ops.
>>29572101
So basically, it's a Type 03 with an airburst grenade launcher and some other electronic shit. Also the chinks are still using the Type-95? I though the 03 phased them out
>>29571934
I heard a woman designed this, is that true?
>>29572231
Still don't see how this makes it an improvement over a 40mm launcher, unless it has some really long range. Plus, I'm not sure if the airburst rounds have preprogrammed detonation ranges or not, since there doesn't seem to be anything on the weapon itself that programs the round.
>>29571934
Sorks were there 6 years ago.
>>29572338
>QLU-11 35mm long range semi-automatic grenade launcher
>as well as to conduct counter-sniper ops.
have ever been so decided to kill someone that you wanted to throw him grenades 1 click away from his position ?
>>29572295
The 3x3 cell suppress and flank small unit tactic and organization was actually used by the PLA first and foremost. The shock-trooper grenade tactics used by all Chinese troops does not exclude the usage of these organizations.
More articles:
https://psmag.com/colonel-evans-fordyce-carlson-our-most-patriotic-communist-2d3fdfa186a7#.fchn27o0h
>Colonel Evans Fordyce Carlson: Our Most Patriotic Communist?
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/aug/26/marine-corps-raiders-marsoc/
>During World War II, the Raiders were organized in response to President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s desire to have a commando-style force that could conduct amphibious raids and operate behind enemy lines. Raider commanders studied unconventional warfare tactics, including those of Chinese guerrillas, and were given their pick of men and equipment, according to Marine historians.
>>29572277
That's what I was talking about, dumbass.
So basically this "OICW" is a single shot, bolt action launcher for 20mm grenades that aren't even "smart".
Fuck it, at this point just give me an underslung 40mm that isn't overthought. Simplier, more explosives per shot, faster to shoot, and it doesn't fuck up the entire rest of my rifle.
>>29572363
lower looks just like an AR lower. chinks reverse engineering skills are legendary desu senpai
>>29572338
>QLU-11 35mm long range semi-automatic grenade launcher
I wonder what the recoil is like on that thing.
>>29572358
Yes, like many other things used by the Chinese military.
>>29572302
>i dont think height over bore matters
clearly you dont shoot often
it absolutely matters on a defensive weapon and you want the optic as close to the bore as possible
>>29572431
give me a box of grenades and a slingshot
>>29572434
Suppossedly, it has a recoil-damper. The barrel itself will travel back into the receiver.
>>29572433
>Sork
What is South Korea?
>>29572465
thats what i said wasnit?
>>29572487
no you said chinks
>>29572338
>QLU-11
Having the "U" in the name, it seems that this weapon is classified as a sniper rifle?
As in QBU-88 or QBU-10?
>>29572338
>as well as to conduct counter-sniper ops.
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
You could use a Gustav as an anti sniper weapon, but you'd be dumb to do so. Same thing with this.
Maybe if your target was a barricaded shooter taking some pop shots, but that's not really a sniper. And you'd be better off with the Goose in that situation too.
China should issue swords again.
>>29572065
Why not have everyone carry one? Win firefights throuh superior firepower
>>29572435
does she have a facebook account?
>>29572515
>those of the squint
>>29572451
>Pvt. Chan you unloaded weapon yes
>Yes sir all weapon unload
>Did check QLU-11 Automatic Long range grenade launcher
>I dont remember bringing a QL-
>*psssssskklggggttttttspppp*
>*crying and screaming children*
>*kid who shouldered the grenade launcher looking around for his arm*
Both ISIS/FSA and Kurds/SAA like those chinese GLs.
>>29572617
>light variant only supposed to be loaded with six round drum
>that madman uses the 15 round drum from the heavy variant.
>>29572445
Give me a box of grenades, some tape and an atlatl.
>>29572577
Why do you think? It's overkill. There are other things to be carried besides just individual weapons, to say nothing of how much less fighting a unit could do because everyone is carrying grenades instead of a much larger amount of intermediate and rifle rounds.
>>29572295
The grenadier doctrine survived to this day in the PLA. Weapon squads in the fire support platoons carry a shitload of light AGLs around, and the stick-grenades are still in use after 100 years.
>>29572681
air bursting grenades can do a lot more than a bullet
thousands of bullets fired into walls or empty air are useless
>>29572574
They made a "Tactical" dadao as a some sort of publicity stunt a few years back.
>>29572829
What it looks like up close.
It's marketed as a survival machete but IMO they just want to shank people like they used to.
The profilaltion of airburst weapons will accelerate the development of fully enclosed power suits.
I, for one, look forward to that.
>>29572964
Will likely make rifles completely obsolete
>>29572755
You're a total moron if you think every grenade carried by Chinese forces is going to be air-bursting. Doubly so if you're planning to replace individual infantry weapons with these launchers. That would be insanely expensive for simple procurement reasons, to say nothing of logistically supporting such an infantry force in an actual combat operation. Even the USA could not support using airbursting smart grenades to replace intermediate and full sized rifle rounds, hence why 40mm isn't going anywhere even though XM25 is on track for implementation soon, even with the currently allocated funding. That would turn into a logistical nightmare in the event of any sustained conflict.
Seems to me that China has tons of these launchers, and has developed airbursting rounds for them. But insinuating that China can feed every one of these launchers with entirely smart airbursting rounds is laughable.
Unless spending for fancy army toys is the reason why China is still so far behind in naval and air power. Maybe it's that internal political instability. If I were the Chinese government, I'd put capability for internal pacification over external influence.
>>29572964
True.
People dont realize that the main killing force of a grenade explosion against squishy humans isnt so much fragmentation, but the shockwave that bursts internal organs no matter under how many layers of kevlar and rifle-plates you hide yourselves.
Even exoskeletons that have heavy EOD-tier armor wont protect the human against the shockwave of even a 20mm airburst.
The only solution are fully enclosed 'space-suit' kinda armor.
>>29572434
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fElkKg5ae4E
>>29573019
Sealed environments.
>>29573019
This is completely untrue. Seriously where did you get this garbage from?
Most breaching charges have more explosive force than a grenade and don't routinely kill people, or if they do its from fragmentation.
I hear stupid shit all the time on 4chan, but you take the stupid cake today.
>>29573019
>People dont realize that the main killing force of a grenade explosion against squishy humans isnt so much fragmentation,
It is exactly opposite. Blast killing radius is 5-10 time less than fragmentation effects radius. 1 kg TNT killing radius is around 1 meter, 10 kg TNT is around 2.5 meters. 30-gram charge could only kill with direct body contact. Or not.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e26_1329829229
>>29573274
I dont think the RPG detonated.
But holy shit.
>>29573019
>Place one person 20 meters in front of a Claymore.
>Place another person 20 meters behind Claymore.
>Detonate Claymore.
>Golly Gee whizz, which one survived?
Blasts and shockwaves *are* dangerous, but the danger is proportional to the size of the explosive. For the few ounces in a 20mm round, it would practically have to be a dead on hit to kill merely through blast.
>>29573019
Not true in case of grenades and other small-ish explosives. Definitely true in case of the big bombs, though.
>>29572844
>>29572829
>tfw you will never see a Big Sword Unit in action
>>29571934
we don't need it
>>29571934
The XM25 is in LRIP.
http://breakingdefense.com/2016/02/biggest-change-for-infantry-since-wwii-xm25/
>>29573437
>Definitely true in case of the big bombs, though
Nope.
>>29573475
Why are they playing insurgency on the laptops?
>>29573441
You can learn the techniques vs the rifle bayonet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzr-C6MzwXE&list=PLZCM18UyceCbMPnn8Vfh6JigWI_Cplkda
But since bayonet charges are pretty obsolete because of automatic rifles as standard weapons, this might have dubious value today.
>>29571934
But how does shot greanade?
>>29573533
>3:22
>coil
For what purpose? Seems very slow and you could do better without it.
>>29573586
probably a way to quickly swipe the rifle just a bit off your body and to position yourself for a follow up with a thrust, which will be nigh impossible for a rifle to parry.
>>29572231
The airburst fuze doesn't go away just because you have different types of grenades
>>29573696
Sure, but the impact trigger will go away when you have HEAB exclusively.
>>29573718
And which airburst grenades are you saying have both fuses?
>>29573441
>>29572574
Of all the combatants of WW2 I think the Chinese do not get the credit they deserve. They absolutely refused to let the Japanese kill them off without a fight.
And they integrated spears & swords pretty admirably into tactics that also involved rifles and machine guns. Their basic strategy when deploying those units was
>split before ambushing the enemy
>everyone with a long gun pin down the enemy from concealed positions
>while they try to engage sneak up behind them and charge with spears, swords, pistols and hand grenades
This was reported to be relatively effective against the Japanese, who's issued equipment and combat doctrine played directly into these tactics. The Chinese were also uniquely experienced in deploying handguns on the modern battlefield; a great deal of the fighting during the Warlord era centered on handguns because importing modern rifles and other military arms was blocked by an international embargo.
>>29574070
And they actually developed a new shooting technique specifically for the Mauser M712 Schnellfeuer, which was used as an ersatz SMG by them.
>>29572101
Goddamn blue camo with black helmets looks cool.
Completely fucking useless camo but it looks snazzy as fuck all.
>>29574165
That Marine camo was made for the SCS islands in mind. Back when they were just submerged reefs, that camo made sense.
But now, their Marines need to move to another camo.
>>29574218
That makes more sense I suppose.
I just love the look with the black helmets.
>>29571934
>mass issue
They haven't mass issued any of their modern arms or vehicles.
>>29573019
Are you retarded?
>>29574070
>the chinese have used spears in literally every war they have fought
Why does it need all of this?
>>29574596
That's where all the malnourished Chinese babies on hamster wheels go to power the optic
>>29572338
jesus christ this looks heavy
>>29573019
deadly fragmentation range exceeds concussive range
>>29574596
battery or computer system?
>>29574596
That thing is the laser rangefinder/fire control computer.
The Chinese didnt integrate it with the scope, but in the rifle itself. This makes it possible to switch out the scope, or use the gun without it and still have a functional airburst system. Note that small front-sight notch ontop the fire control complex.
>>29574757
>>29574774
The entire system with scope detached.
Note that there are two scopes for that weapon. Possibly one with thermal and the other without.
>>29574683
they should put the battery and computer parts on the soldier so the weapon itself can be easily replaced/modularized. the computing components can be brought down to iphone size easily and the battery packs as well. The gun itself isn't gonna have enough real estate for all that kit.
>>29574757
the backup iron-sights are a bit off-center, though.
>>29571934
so theyre also going to realize this is a mistake at some stage in the future?
>>29574805
Chinese manufacturing quality.
>>29574810
As long as America wont end the jewish control over their economy and military complex, they will never realize their mistakes.
you white bois better learn to eat with chopstix
>>29571934
20mm bolt action single shot.
Why even bother?
I really would love to own one 2bh senpai
>>29574830
>jews farm america with bad ideas
>chinese takes the bad ideas and actually brings them into service
Those madmen
>>29572277
calm down zhou
>>29574834
because ONE HIT AND IT IS ALL OVER
>Chinese marines already tested it on skinnies on boats off Somalia and noone will ever know it because the corpses just dissapeared.
>>29573510
What do you think that graph is showing then you fucking retard? What else would a large bomb kill with if not overpressures? They aren't packing JDAMs with nails you turd.
>>29574833
>wide hips to accommodate horizontal pussy
>>29573533
>Step 1: Cleave
>>29574596
Chinas 80s electorics.
Its a shitty ak with plastic garbage mounted on top.
>>29571934
>Bolt action, single shot 20mm grenade launcher
>Not easily accessed
>25Kg
>exhausted Soldiers are easier to kill
>Corner shooting
>A capability the US had in the 90's that added no real advantage over standard cqb tactics.
Yeah...its a meme gun alright.
We use an underslung 40mm grenade launcher due to rapid reloading. The XM-25 was semi auto and had a few kinks to workout...but worked well when it hit combat units.
The reality is, you can toss out a weaponsystem and call it "ready" but its not.
>>29575329
>25kg
wut?
shit weights 5kg fully loaded.
Less than a goddamn M40 sniper rifle or a Thompson.
It is the lightest and most "rifle-like" OICW around.
>>29575354
It's a fucking cool looking weapon
>>29571934
Because we thought it was stupid, so did the Koreans, and I bet the Chinese do as well.
They'll drop it, just like every other country has.
Shit is fucking heavy, eats batteries, and doesn't provide an advantage worth it.
I did just fine in Iraq with my M203 and iron sights.
>>29572286
Gung Hoi means to do work or some shit
>>29572319
>Boxer thinks he knows shit about street fighting and gets piped by the guy he doesn't see sneaking up on him.
>>29575329
>25Kg
You're implying it weighs more than a fucking Javelin
>>29572442
Well according to that picture, you're sighting in your scope at about 4 feet from the muzzle. Realistically, when zeroing at around 100 yards, it is much less pronounced. You also have to consider bullet drop starting at that range, so that helps cancel out the offset.
>>29574165
>Goddamn blue camo with black helmets looks cool.
It looks like a mall ninja who fucked up and mixed his tacticool with a police uniform.
>>29575354
>shit weights 5kg fully loaded
Doubt intensifies.
>>29574895
They're called general purpose bombs because they're a compromise between blast effect, fragmentation and penetration. The lethal radius of fragmentation exceeds that of blast.
>>29576378
>Because we thought it was stupid, so did the Koreans, and I bet the Chinese do as well.
The K11 is in service. If the Chinese stick with it the Americans are really the only ones who tried and failed to field.
>>29572136
>Butthurt American detected
>>29578914
3.5kg for the rifle. 0.5kg for a loaded mag. 1kg between range finder, laser and optic. Seems reasonable.
For comparison an unloaded Stgw. 57 weights about 6.1kg.
>>29572101
>One per fire-team
1:50
this is not bad idea for china
if chinese manufacturing and QC are anything to judge by, these guns are going to fuck up constantly.
>>29574895
What do you think the body of a bomb is made from? (Hint: Metal).
Also, with discussion originally focusing on small munitions in the thread- the amount of explosives in a 20mm round is fairly insignificant for producing a lethal blast. The kills for this weapon come from frag. That's why airburst is important for these systems in the first place.
>>29572065
>It's not even a niche weapon, m4 with a m230/320 is about the same
>40mm hi-lo
>20mm high velocity
No
>>29572361
>unless it has some really long range
>I'm not sure if the airburst rounds have preprogrammed detonation ranges or not
I cannot contain all of this dumb
>>29573533
I wonder if there are any Japanese accounts of Dadao in action and what they thought about it. Also if there are any kinda epic fights where Japanese officers whip out their gunto to duel.
>>29580326
China does have very good manufacturing and QC if you have connections and money.
The thing about China is that "you get what you pay for" extends to truth. Westerners expect a product no matter how cheap to at least approximate what is advertised. In China you have to pay not to be lied to. If your contract is marginally profitable, they will be marginally truthful.
>>29581234
>China does have very good manufacturing and QC if you have connections and money.
Only in very niche applications, and i cant think of anything major that would be considered best in the world.
>>29572844
The rings are historically inaccurate and serve no purpose other than to seem impressive. Also, how do they claim that it's tactical with no non-reflective coat, a straight, unergonomic handle, and no usefulness except as a slashing weapon?
>>29581404
>For it to be good it needs to be the best in the world
Holy moly goalpost moving
>>29578914
It only has one grenade inside. If it was a mag-fed or even a semi-automatic, it would weight a lot more.
>>29580790
Japanese issued some sort of steel collar for their troops in early war because they often had to encounter those Dadao-troops during urban battle.
