What are the arguments against this weapon other than being too expensive.
>Insanely Accurate
>Very reliable
>Great ergos
It's no more accurate than a regular AR 10 with a good barrel, and its got a piston so it doesn't mitigate recoil as well. Due to the design of it being an AR the piston also tends to beat the bolt carrier up. It's still a pretty good rifle, all things considered.
>>29539705
I would say the increased reliability cancels out the recoil problem. Also if I am not mistaken the whole AR piston beating itself to death really only applies to half ass systems. The HK system which was designed from the ground up to be piston does not suffer from these issues.
>>29539705
>its got a piston so it doesn't mitigate recoil as well
According to someone who owns far more AR pattern 7.62 rifles than you, the MR762 is one of the softest shooting rifles available.
>>29539741
>designed from the ground up to be piston
Except it wasn't. It's still an AR-10/15 pattern rifle with a piston retrofitted in place of the direct gas system. HK has done more to mitigate some of the issues resulting from this but they will always be present.
I love how ARs are holding weapon design back
>no calibers that can't fit in the mag well
>no pistons because it has a tiny bit more recoil and that's excessive
>no minute change at all because muh manual of arms
the only solution is to design a new gun like the SCAR
I just can't get that price through my head when I can get a SCAR for 2700
Also, nice rail system from 1913
>>29539776
Its gas system has more in common with a G36 than an AR. Yes it looks 95% similar to an AR but its gas system is 100% different.
>>29539779
So another short piston rifle? Because that's what the SCAR has
>>29539665
>buying any of the MR rifles, especially when the 5.56 version will keyhole before 10k rounds.
You are buying an expensive wall hangar that isn't an hk417.
>>29539802
The G36's bolt carrier rides along rails inside the polymer receiver, an AR's upper has no such accommodations and thus carrier tilt will always be the result of imparting an off axis force onto a bolt carrier intended to operate within an inline recoil system.
Putting the gas block and op rod assembly from the G36 onto an AR does not make it a G36, nor does it mean the weapon was "designed from the ground up" to function that way.
>>29539802
No it doesn't you dumb chucklefuck, it's an AR-15 bolt carrier group, that's why they initially had issues with carrier tilt caused by the force of the piston acting on what was the retrofitted gas key. The actual piston assembly is like a G36 (which is just like an AR-18), but the bolt and carrier are pretty much straight off of an AR.
>>29539845
>>29539845
>1 guy post about this
>owns a FA range where the gun is mag dumped constantly
>buying into it
Not to mention the old HK91's were not chrome lines yet nobody disses them for being shit. The MR series is not designed to be a fucking service rifle, its literally designed for accuracy (the 762 version especially) and chrome lining hurts accuracy which is why no marksman rifle is chrome lined. I'm not sucking HK's cock on this because I agree its overpriced as fuck, but saying a rifle that is designed to be a target rifle is shit because it isnt chromelined is bullshit.
>>29539665
Unless you're suppressing it, the extra cost and weight is retarded. Also heavy rails that modern designs have surpassed.
You can't hunt with it, which is the only reason any of you should want a firearm in the first place. Otherwise y'all have some serious growing up to do.
>>29539893
>>29539893
>>29539893
What makes it so good at suppressing compared to a SCAR?
>>29539748
CM901 is way softer.
>>29539896
supreme quality bait friend
>>29539896
Tip top fucking kek m8, why the fuck would you come to /k/ and say something so retarded.
>>29539905
It's better for suppressing than a standard AR-15 because they generally don't have an adjustable gas system. Adjustable gas blocks do exists for ARs now that there's a demand however, and the SCAR as well as any rifle with an adjustable gas system suppresses without issue.
In fact most rifles have no issues running suppressed, there's just increased blast back from the chamber or the rifle ends up a bit overgassed.
>>29539905
Short stroke pistons typically run well suppressed, however the MR series actually lacks a user adjustable gas regulator that is present on the SCAR.
>>29539905
I never compared it to a SCAR now did I? The implication was that I was comparing it to a normal AR pattern rifle, which gets hella dirty suppressed.
>>29539779
I'm curious as to what great leaps forward in firearm design you think would be made if people stopped comparing modern guns to ARs
>>29539963
Pro tip: All rifles get hella dirty suppressed.
>>29539947
>actually lacks a user adjustable gas regulator
Olympic ball dropping
>>29539963
All rifles get hella dirty suppressed, there's always the carbon fouling coming back through the chamber. The difference is with the piston that the fouling from the tapped gasses is mostly staying in the gas port and piston head rather than inside the bolt carrier like the AR.
>>29539998
>rather than inside the bolt carrier like the AR.
And to expand on that, fouling inside the bolt carrier isn't even that much of an issue, the real problem is the heat caused by the excess gasses being imparted on the carrier.
its heavy
>implying anyone on /k/ can afford one of these
>>29540185
Does weight really mater on a DMR?
>>29540964
What makes you think it doesn't?
>>29539665
>What are the arguments against this weapon other than being too expensive.
>Insanely Accurate
A rifle of the same exact specifications except with a direct impingement system will always be more accurate.
>Very reliable
Pistons are no more reliable than a direct impingement system. Merely changes cleaning and lubrication regiment. It is more moving parts and heavier with poorer balance. Also more heat which creates more wear of parts.
Also introducing a new piston system will create logistical issues.
>Great ergos
Same ergonomics as the M110 or any other AR10, except the weight is moved in front of the magazine well and is not as quick to point.
Very gimmicky and there is no good reason to replace the M110 with something that is not an improvement and does not fix any of the minor issues we had with the M110.
This is just another HK contract like the IAR and the HK416's we are getting in special forces.
>>29541052
>Also more heat which creates more wear of parts.
The entirety of your post should be considered wrong, but this bit jumped out as exceedingly stupid.
>>29541099
Instead of making bold statements like that you should probably go point by point.
what exactly was inaccurate. There is more heat generated by a piston system and more wear is put on the bolt carrier and the gas block.
Look up the torture test of the LMT MRP piston vs the AR15
>>29539665
Now I wanna adapt G3 parts to it.
>>29541099
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CfZcEjdvx8c
Here you go. Stop making ridiculous statements and name calling and actually show me where I am wrong.
DI:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BSizVpfqFtw
>>29541099
Except what he said is right. Pistons do generate more heat on account of having more material to hold it...
Why is it that people who shill piston ARs don't ever know shit about anything?
>>29541052
>more accurate
Then why is the G28 just as accurate as a M110?
>>29541219
>>29541219
What the fuck does a retarded redneck magdumping until a gun catch on fire prove? It proves nothing about reliability or long term use.
>>29541223
>Except what he said is right.
Except it isn't. DI transfers heat directly into the reciprocating parts assembly where it causes additional strain on those parts. Compare this to a piston AR or similar where you can hold the same parts in your hand without discomfort after several full auto mag dumps.
>>29541255
Does not change what I said you still need to back up your statement.bIt merely illustrates the issues inherit in a piston AR and helps disprove the myth of "reliability."
>>29541231
Thats not accurate considering the M110 is 0.5-1.0moa
>>29541286
>M110 is 0.5-1.0moa
In the KAC brochure it is. Real life is a different story.
>>29541276
DI gives you an even distribution of heat throughout the moving parts and is inherently cooler.
and the piston merely concentrates it to the gas block and the piston which when combined with the smashing of the piston into the bolt carrier creates more wear and tear.
I own pistons but atleast I am not deluding myself into thinking they are better in some way to DI. They are different, and pistons in my experience merely trade one set of problems for another.
Piston guns have no place in a DMR.
>>29541331
I shoot them in real life. I have my own and consistently get 0.5-1.0moa. Army has tested these guns as well and found the same results.
Stop making shit up.
>>29541338
>DMR
>needed to be cooler
it isn't belt-fed nigger, heat isn't an issue
also pistons don't "smash" into the bolt carrier you idiot
>>29541338
>even distribution of heat
>is inherently cooler
You are so full of fuck it isn't even funny. But I'm still laughing my ass off.
>>29541223
>Pistons do generate more heat on account of having more material to hold it...
What are you talking about? The only thing generates heat is the powder's combustion. Everything else is just the weapon acting as a giant radiator.
>>29541366
What I said is accurate. You would only be laughing if you have not actually looked at the facts.
Calling someone names does not change anything and neither does posting FLIR stills thinking you have any clue what they mean.
>>29541378
The heat is generated by the combustion and the round shooting through the chamber. But heat transfers through metals. And where the heat goes is important as is how it is dissipated.
Pistons "hold on" to more heat than a DI.
>>29541388
Look how hot this SCAR bolt carrier is from the piston "smashing into it!"
>>29541408
Good thing the heat wasn't "evenly distributed" to the bolt carrier so it will continue to function in excess of 100K rounds before failure.
>>29539779
No, DI fags are the ones holding progress back. They worship everything thought up by the brilliant Eugene Stoner as the ultimate and final word in gunsmithing/firearms engineering and simply refuse to entertain the possibility that there might be some room for improvement.
>>29539896
That's the shittiest bait I've ever seen here. You need to work on your form.
>>29541409
Woah woah woah.
SCAR is a whole different animal. I am specifically referring to short stroke pistons that are designed to work with the AR15 and AR10.
>>29541432
I absolutely think that there is room for improvement but I also do not immediately by something until its been properly proven itself
>>29541408
>Pistons "hold on" to more heat than a DI.
Oh, now I get what you mean.
>>29539665
The whole fight thing is silly.
I own multiple piston and DI guns.
Any of them I can use and under normal conditions I will get good accuracy and virtually no failures. It's all a meme, pistons may be slightly heavier and DIs slightly less reliable, but an extra fraction of a pound or extra malfunction every few hundred rounds isn't going to kill my kit.
They're all good guns and as long as people want to go out and buy guns and have a grand ol time exercising their rights, nobody should give a shit.
My friend took me out to shoot his 5.7, I think it's a silly gun without the AP rounds we can't buy, but it was fun and he likes it. Fuck all the snowflake elitists and the overbearing conformists.
>>29541476
>get btfo
>starts backpedalling
The results are exactly the same in a piston AR. Hot gasses are expelled through the barrel and gas block, not directed back into the critical moving parts where it can only cause extra friction and burn off lube.
>>29541408
>Pistons "hold on" to more heat than a DI.
No, they don't. And you have no proof of such idiotic assertions.
>>29541540
Actually his logic is sound and based on mathematically provable facts. It's the simple reasoning that Piston ARs have more mass than DI ARs, therefore they dissipate more heat. But, having a background in engineering, I would say that difference in mass is nearly negligible, and therefore the difference in heat retention is also negligible.
>>29539665
>carrier tilt
>non chrome lined barrel
>>29541567
>negligible
Hey Mr. Engineer, would you rather your gas block be 200+ degrees or your bolt?
Why shouldn't I buy a long stroke piston AR?
>>29541526
Lol brother I was not BTFO. You literally made zero argument and could not refute any of my points.
The SCAR was designed around an AR18 style piston/BC and recoil system and the AR15 is not.
there are tons of issues of putting a piston in a system that wasnt designed for it.
You are so fucking full of yourself. Read what the fuck you are posting. I dont need to backpedal because you made no argument.
The SCAR has a beefier BC and piston system than an HK416 or LWRC IC.
It also wears differently due to the recoil system being in line with where the piston is. Where an AR15 with a piston system wants to pivot due to it being designed for in-line direct impingement, this requires skis to be put onto the BC.
>>29541586
>carrier tilt was fixed
>yes the barrel being non chrome lines is shit
Although its halfway understandable since the rifle is marketed as a DMR rifle.
>>29541599
Thats not how it works.
The DI distributes the heat evenly. And the pistons consolidate it to critical components.
>>29541621
PWS is better in my opinion than any short stroke design but they have had issues that you should go google. Like the piston assemblies breaking off.
>>29541621
PWS has a good reputation but you're pretty much limiting yourself to one company.
>>29541622
>You literally made zero argument and could not refute any of my points.
>pistons have more heat which creates more wear of parts
Pretty sure the above statement of yours was thoroughly #rekt although you will continue to ignore that fact.
As for the rest of your post you seem to be off the belief that I am a proponent of shoehorning pistons into AR platforms. I can assure you I'm not. I'm only here to post facts which is why I took issue with your false assertions that "herp derp piston heat causes more wear than DI"
>>29541646
>>29541682
Faxon ARAK21 was the other gun I was looking at. I agree that proprietary components are generally bad, but it's an interesting design.
>>29541694
show me where it was #rekt
You namecalled and made non-scientific and inaccurate counter points.
>>29541695
Watch this very important
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rho8WFXP8k0
>>29541646
>The DI distributes the heat evenly. And the pistons consolidate it to critical components.
You mean the piston consolidates it to... the piston? The thing that requires absolutely zero lubrication and virtually no maintenance because it practically never fails? You don't say!
>>29541716
>non-scientific and inaccurate counter points
I provided thermal imaging comparing the heat distribution of two rifles that directly show the concentration of heat build up of critical parts in the DI AR. Apparently that's not "scientific" enough for you...
>>29541719
Heres an example of why you are wrong about your precious piston system, heat, and reliability.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CfZcEjdvx8c
>>29541752
Neither of those proved anything.
Except that not as much heat is not transferred into the receiver area.
Tradeoff is its concentrated in the gas block and piston assembly.
>>29539665
Okay but /k/ I don't want to sound like a retard but what are those screws for one the side of the rails. They look so awkward.
>>29541755
So you post a video where the point of failure is material of the bolt carrier not being properly designed or manufactured? And that is somehow to prove that it was a heat related issue? Ahahah you are beyond any logical reasoning at this point. MUH EVEN DISPERSION GUISE!
>>29541761
>Neither of those proved anything.
They've proven how unbelievably dense you are.
>Tradeoff is its concentrated in the gas block and piston assembly.
Which is exactly where you want it because those parts are much much less likely to fail.
>>29541695
The arak 21 is a cool looking gun. I'd like to own one. I'd say it's kind of stretching the definition of "AR" though.
>>29541716
>Watch this very important
>https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rho8WFXP8k0 [Embed]
Jesus christ, fuck that shit. I'll just buy a daniel defense
>>29541496
You actually can buy 5.7 AP. The problem is FN keeps an eye out and makes it harder for you to do so. It isn't something you can buy at your local walmart but it isn't impossible like the "lol can't buy AP ammo ever" meme would like you to think
>>29539665
Here's a better HK.
>>29542034
>Cali legal G3
>>29541432
Were you not around for the whole period of years where piston ARs were the greatest thing on the face of the planet and everyone had to have one so that entire companies grew up around it? Or how about before that when the AR and HK were the only non piston guns on the market, same as it is now.
>>29542842
HK leading the way in innovation for 50 years
>>29541052
>This is just another HK contract like the IAR and the HK416's we are getting in special forces.
Too bad real operators don't share your opinion on what's better.
>>29539779
same safety, same trigger, same mags
SCAR is just a fancy AR
>>29541223
Stop being silly. Heat is generated in two ways. The bulk of the heat comes from the friction of shoving the bullet with pressure through the rifled barrel. That's equal in both systems. The rest of the heat comes from the hot gases. The part of the gases that come in contact with the bolt head is again the same in both systems. But for working the cycling mechanism in DI systems the gases have to move all the way through the gas tube into the heart of the system while piston systems shed it out front above the gas port.
The material itself doesn't "generate" heat. And there's also no more of it in piston systems than in DI systems.
>>29541338
>DI gives you an even distribution of heat
DI gives you more surface area in contact with the gases resulting in more heat exchange between the hot gases and the weapon, making DI more prone to heat problems.
>>29544284
>SCAR is just a fancy AR
There's enough blind idiocy in this thread. You really don't need to add more.
>>29541408
>But heat transfers through metals.
The main heat transfer mechanisms in descending order of importance are:
convection
conduction
radiation
DI systems need more dwell time than piston systems and take the hot fluid right into their guts. Piston systems don't, which makes them cooler.
>And where the heat goes is important as is how it is dissipated.
In DI systems much more of it goes to where it creates problems.
It is dissipated over the surface area that's in contact with a cool fluid, like the outside of a gas tube or piston, but much less the inside of a gas tube or receiver/housing, which is why it's paramount to generate as little heat as possible there in the first place. This makes piston systems superior to DI systems heat-wise.
>>29544352
How is it not?
>>29539665
No barrel lining.
>>29539665
Stock pad twists and your proprietary take down tool gets lost.
>>29539665
>Ask K about a gun
>Turns out it is total shit
Every damn time.
>>29539892
Actually, one of the reasons why I won't buy a PTR or G3 is bacause the lack of lining.
>>29539665
Is there keymod or mlok options?
>>29542064
>>29544598
you have to use hkmod actually
>>29541646
>The DI distributes the heat evenly.
Meaning more of the heat goes to the place where it creates problems: the bolt.
>And the pistons consolidate it to critical components.
The piston separates the hot gases from the critical components.
>>29544593
>complaining about chrome lining on a budget rifle
Kek, I understand it on the mr762 but not a $800 PTR
>>29544598
gee..
> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hk+417+keymod+rail
having used piston hks extensively ill share some thoughts.
carrier tilt only exist in shitty drop in kits. not on the hks.
the hk bolts have a longer mean time between failures than DI ARs. due to no heating of the bolt.
norwegian 417 rifles have sub moa with nato ball non lead ammo. (leaded is better)
so what you get is a rifle that needa less maintenance and has the same performance as DI ARs.
the negatives are proprietary parts
also its expensive in murrica. its the same as scars in europe around 3k
>>29544580
Tappet gas system, that monster BCG, monolothic upper, bigger but shorter buffer, two-position gas regulator.
Pretty much everything outside of the lower receiver is different.
>>29544790
Are you in the Norwegian military?
>>29542034
>better
Stop trying to force this shit, Calicuck.
>>29542034
>>29544615
this cant be real
not arming our troops with the superior halo smg
>>29545926
Literal maymay gun
Heard the barrels start to key hole around 8k rounds. Not sure how true that is.
>>29547945
>complaining about a bolt breaking art 25k rounds
HK states the bolts are good for 15k rounds, also in the army we swapped our bolts at 10k rounds.
HK warranties the barrels for 10k rounds, so far only 2 reports of barrels wearing out in under this have bee reported and both have bee fixed under warranty. Some guy that owns a FA shooting range had his barrel on his MR556 wear out at 10k rounds. This is unacceptable in my opinion, but you also have to look at how these weapons are being shot. The average user will be able to get 15-20k rounds out of a barrel before it starts to degrade. This will also happen slower on the larger 762 rifle.
>muh one and only HK
>>29539896
>y'all
Fuck, trigger warning fellow Texan, get the fuck out of here for making me reply
>>29539665
>eats buffer tubes
>no folding stock
>ar's still do it better
heh
>>29548097
>wrong
>muh slavsquat
>being shit
>>29539665
Is this a civvie import HK417?
>>29548161
Yes, the major difference is the non-chromelines barrel. Although I dont think the G28E1 has a chrome barrel either.
>>29548121
The fuck are you talking about, I never brought up slavshit
If you're gonna do a piston, do it like the MCX. The AR DI design is far better than the HK shitpiston
Not everything is AR vs AK you fucking mong
>>29548217
How many militaries have adopted the MCX?
>>29546714
At least it looks neat
>>29548369
Does it do anything unique?
>>29542034
Bait.
>>29545554
I was.
>>29548049
>>29547945
I dont know if the civillian rifles have the same barrels as the military ones.
talked with the guys doing the yearly inspections of the guns, and appearently the barrels will have very little degradation for over 10k rounds. and thats using non leaded ammo.
maintenance was much less than on the C8s
>>29548217
>The AR DI design is far better than the HK shitpiston
why though?
>>29539665
Its heavy.
Its expensive.
Short barrel life because no chrome lining, melonite, or other treatment.
HK customer service isn't as good as it could be.
HK tends to like lots of proprietary parts.
Piston ARs are over rated.
Its 2016 and it has a fucking quad rail.
Its still a fine rifle, but it has its flaws like any other.
>>29540964
You carry it around all day and then tell us.
![csm_MR308A3_13_re_783f7ba7a8[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/RdXTZ0h.png "csm_MR308A3_13_re_783f7ba7a8[1].png")
>>29550328
>Its heavy.
not compared to competition, the 416 is heavy for an ar15 though.
>Its expensive.
true
>Short barrel life because no chrome lining, melonite, or other treatment.
true for A1 versoion, A3 has chrome lined barrels. its just not available in the us thanks to muh import laws that HK doesnt give a shit about. It's coming sooner or later, especially now with the g28 contract.
>HK customer service isn't as good as it could be.
HK-USA problem, they replace barrels in europe if the customer isnt satisfied with accuracy under 10k rounds
>HK tends to like lots of proprietary parts.
just like most ar-10s
>Piston ARs are over rated.
>opinions
fair enough
>Its 2016 and it has a fucking quad rail.
fixed with A3
>Its still a fine rifle, but it has its flaws like any other.
word
>>29550392
You can buy the A3 forend I believe. Still bullshit since it cost so much. Any idea why we cant get chrome barrels?
>>29550547
993r or whatever its called. and HK being lazy, they have to go through alot of loops to import guns, shit like outsourcing different parts, unfinished receivers. barrels. etc.
most manufacturers set up a plant in the us. like sig and FN, alltough the scars are made in belgium with a bolt holding the mag or something thats milled out.
and the A1 HKs that you can currently buy didnt have chromelining to please Merkel since its too "military muh jews", they blamed accuracy but thats just to jump some loopholes. that has changed and we get superior 416/417 barrels now.
cant you guys just get some barrels from canada or something?
>>29550618
>>29550618
I mean I guess we could, but you know how HK is the barrel would probably cost $1500.
The rail is too short, it looks silly. It would be way better with a Geissele rail that extended a little farther
>>29550706
You can buy G28 rails, which I think look awesome.
>pic related
You can get them in black also.
>>29550728
That looks pretty sweet, but it looks pretty heavy with no relief cuts anywhere.
>>29550739
Total weight for the weapon is 12.5ish pounds. Which is alot, but that is the "DMR" style rifle.
http://www.heckler-koch.com/en/products/military/precision-rifles/g28/g28/technical-data.html
>>29550706
thats becauseb its the 13 inch
pic related is the current setuo for g28 CSASS
I want that rail
>>29550781
thats with a steel upper reciever. the us g28 and the 308/762 have aluminium upper
>>29550889
So maybe a half pound lighter? Also I think the Rail on the G28 is different than whats planned on the new CASS
>>29551057
>So maybe a half pound lighter
2 pounds, but it have a smaller scope
http://www.heckler-koch.com/en/products/military/assault-rifles/hk417/hk417-a2-20/technical-data.html
>>29551057
>Also I think the Rail on the G28 is different than whats planned on the new CASS
>>29550728
is the g28 rail
>>29550830
is the planned cass rail
>>29541432
Remember, don't fix what ain't broke. That's why I only use pointy rocks.
>>29548265
Delta has ordered the MCX. I'm not sure if they've adopted it or if they're just testing it.
>>29551604
Delta a shit
>>29539665
>Insanely Accurate
I hope you're memeing.
>>29539665
The MR762/hk417 is pretty baller. But:
>insanely accurate
Not really. More like insanely heavy.
>very reliable
Okay.
>great ergos
Okay, but not really any better than an m16/m4/sr25/ar15/ar10
If you want an mr762, go for it. It's badass. I want one too. Just remember, youre paying about 4 fucking grand for a piston AR .308 when you could have gotten a scar 17 for about a grand less, or built a custom ar10 that could probably exceed its accuracy with a good barrel, that's potentially lighter, and plenty reliable, for half the price.
