Shotgun Thread
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
Let's get a shotgun thread started, I'm going to buy my first soon.
Got a question though. The main purpose of the gun's gonna be home defense, and hopefully some 3Gun (once I get all the kit), but would like to be able to hunt and shoot clays with it occasionally. With this in mind, do I need to get a model with adjustable chokes, or can I do all that (albeit not as well) with a cylinder bore?
>>29525686
>The main purpose of the gun's gonna be home defense
How embarrassing.
>>29525686
I'd personally go with something with interchangeable chokes. Depending upon hunting alone, what game you decide to go after will greatly affect what type of spread you want, and versatility is always nice.
That being said, I have a question for my the experienced shotgun fags on here. Can I expect to get halfway decent slug groupings if I use a smooth bore barrel with a bead, or is rifling/rifle sights recommended? I don't have much experience with slugs.
Going to buy one of these soon. Plan to bring it on hikes and camping trips.
>>29525760
Looks illegal as fuck
>>29525897
>Filename
>Dominion Arms
>Canadian
It's super fuckin' legal for them, actually. They don't have retarded short-barrel laws for rifles or shotguns like we do.
They just have a bunch of other retarded gun laws, is all.
>>29525897
Nah they made the barrel extend behind the receiver. It's invisible though.
Buying a Mossberg 500 Mariner for HD/STHF
Should I go with the 20" Barrel that holds 8 shells or the 18.5" that holds 6 shells?
I just feel like the 20" is too long for HD, but the extra 2 shots is nice.
>>29526043
1.5 inches is a minimal difference.
>>29525686
Shit.
Is the vepr 12 a good shotgun? I know it's a bit expensive for a shotty but I'm really interested in it and would like to know if anyone has experience or stories of them
>>29526043
Shotguns are good for hunting, 3-gun and breaching doors. HD/SHTF is a terrible reason to buy a shotgun. If you have the $450+ needed to buy a Mariner you're better off buying a Glock or even a Zastava.
>>29526064
It says 1.5" but in reality its much more
>pic related, models next to each other
>>29526098
>don't buy a shotgun that can be used for defense, hunting any North American game, and sporting
>buy a glock that can collect dust and explode
Top kek faggot
If you have the money, a Beretta 1301 is a good choice for HD and 3 gun. If you want to go cheaper, a 1201 is good. Main difference is gas operated vs inertia operated respectively
>>29525897
Only real choice we have- it's hard to get a permit to carry a pistol innawoods.
>>29526043
Check to see if the barrels can interchange- I think the mag tube length matters. I have a Mossberg 500 Flex with a 20 inch barrel and the six round tube, and I can swap a 28 inch with removable chokes or a slug barrel if I'd like. Adds a lot of flexibility.
>>29525964
Rifle barrel lengths are regulated, shotgun barrel lengths are not.
Remshit 870 VS Mossman 590A1?
>>29526089
They're great.
Buy a Baikal mp-18, its built like a tank and single shot so Shillary won't be able to confiscate it when she takes power.
>>29526369
Rifle barrel lengths are regulated the same way as shotgun barrels. The rules for semi-auto vs manual operation differ, however.
>>29526098
This post is nogunz as fuck
Any gun is good for HD as it is infinitely better than no gun at all. A shotgun is fine for all those things you mentioned and more, as are handguns. Only thing not recommended is a bolt action because of how unwieldly they are, but even that's better than nothing.
>>29526043
20 if you never want to change barrels at all
18.5 if you want different barrel lengths it will take 835 barrels
>>29526649
>a-any gun is better than no gun!
>i-i kno its shit but its still better ='(((((
>>29526677
>damn i gotta shill for glock since they dont make anything but pistols! wouldnt want people knowing they have any other choice
You're retarded
And still very noguns
>>29526043
You might as well go for an 18.5 in. barrel if its going to be purely for defense. You can always get a tube extension later.
>>29526098
post guns pls
>>29525686
I don't know shit about shit, but I heard this was a good and cheap gun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs1vSeg0nFI&nohtml5=False
It's designed for out of the box competition and miculek uses it and endorses it. Worthy of consideration
>>29526098
>HD/SHTF is a terrible reason to buy a shotgun.
>You're better off buying a pistol
Opinion discarded
>>29526779
>glock
Wat, assuming I'm that moron? Not at all, I just prefer using a rifle instead of opting for 8 rounds.
>>29526392
Winschuster 1897
>>29526921
Well good for you but for most people 8 shots is enough for jamal AND tyrone.
If you expect more than your average dindus, like if you're a drug dealer or something then yes I would probably invest more money into a rifle, a CC, a shotty, and probably another hand gun just in case. Also a plate carrier while your at it.
>>29526399
Holy fuck thats the best shotgun combo ever
>>29527033
>Well good for you but for most people 8 shots is enough for jamal AND tyrone.
>8 shots is enough
>planning for the worst case scenario
>thinking a multiman home invasion is restricted only to people associated with crime
Poor soul.
>>29525686
I'll post here. So the shell tube on my Mossberg 500 is starting to come out, meaning it's unscrewing.
I screwed it back in snug but not too tight.
Is this gonna be a problem? Can I just put some thread locker on there and call her good?
>no pics to show it
Sorry
>>29527183
replace revolver with shotgun and pic related is you
and by the way, I said "or something", didn't mean "or some other career criminal" you fucking autist.
guys guys guys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lP7AIS0R3c&nohtml5=False
>>29527209
hand tight is fine
you can use loctite or something if you want
>>29526957
Very nice.
I normally don't come to you faggots for advice, but I'm interested in what some of you might say.
Here is the situation: I purchased pic related (Rossi, Double Barrel, 20 ga) from a friend of mine back in the 80s because I thought it was cool. Subsequently, I have not shot it very often over the past 25+ years. I am considering submitting a Form 1 and shortening the barrel.
Question; Should I do it or will a sawed off double barrel with rabbit ears look stupid?
>>29527569
do it but keep the stock stalker
Having owned pic related for a couple years and having fired a couple thousand shells of mixed variety (low brass brodshot, 2 3/4 buck and slugs, 3" buck and slugs, some gun show rounds like bolo, and PDX12s) I would buy another one in a heartbeat but probably wont ever need to. It's a bit ratteley, but it has withstood mud, sand, ice, water, etc and never has failed to fire, load, or eject.
590A1 is a great choice.
>>29527614
>keep the stock
Hmmm...I've been wondering about that as well. I might keep the stock, but have a birdshead made for it as well.
Thanks anon
>>29527311
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tkMYoOLAhk
>inb4 mmmuh .38
>inb4 muh super close range shot placement on a multiple targets
>inb4 i was just acting like a retard
Sorry mate, I plan just a tid bit better than off the assumption 8 shots will be enough.
>>29527640
with a stock its still a viable weapon
without its a toy so you can be mad max
getting a separate birdshead made would be the best option but i have no idea of parts availability for that gun
>>29527629
Have fun with that PG and the tang safety faggot.
>>29527684
He seems to like it so fuck off
>>29527629
Also, I have the same stock and I need to sell it off.
Gonna buy me a nice boyds stock
>>29527671
>without its a toy so you can be mad max
EX-ACTLY.
>>29527569
you'd look more 'safari hunter' than 'mad max,' so it depends on the aesthetic you're going for.
looks better like it is to me, might paint or burn something pretty into the stock
>>29526089
Yep.
There's not much to look into. It's an AK, hopefully you know what that is. It shoots 12 gauge. It takes magazines instead of having to manually load your shells into a tube.
They are typically more reliable than saigas.
>>29526121
>>29526399
Can you hear any difference when firing the 18.5" and 20"+? I read even tiny differences in barrel length can make a noticeable difference in muzzle blast with the 12 gauge. Haven't fired one with a longer barrel since I was like 10 though.
>>29527684
Haven't had an issue with it yet. I took a few rifle defense classes with my AR and my shotgun follows the same basic tactics when equipped with the pistol grip in my home. Where's yours?
>>29527653
What is this supposed to prove? Did you see a shotgun in the video? Because I sure didn't.
If you're trying to argue that he didn't have enough shots to kill the guy then you're out of your mind. This is a bad example, if not the worst, and you're even more retarded than I thought for posting it.
The guy had time to reload AND he had the opportunity to just grab the lawyer and shoot him point blank, but he didn't because he's a half assed, angry retard, sort of like you.
>>29527653
WTF are you even trying to prove with that?
>>29529752
>gets example wrecked
>rr-RETARD!
I accept your defeat.
>>29530218
Samefag tho. Don't rely on the least amount of rounds feasible for a situation.
team mossberg reporting
New firearms user here, I have what I assume to be leading in my mossberg 500 video from shooting slugs. If it is leading like I think, how do I get it out of there? Everybody who was gunny in my family is dead, so I can't get anybody's help in person.
My new baby. Waiting on a metal trigger guard and forend spacer. Does anyone know if it's feasable to replace the trigger guard yourself, or is it better to have a gunsmith do it? Probably going to refinish the wood in the meantime, I'm thinking either BLO or perhaps a green stain just for something different.
>>29526343
>non existing
FTFY
>>29527444
Use blue lock tite if its acruelly a huge problem. But you shouldn't need any if just a bit loose one time. Have some patients and just see
What's up with Mossbergs at the moment? Is there a shotgun buy panic that I haven't heard about?
I went to five local gun shops and they have none, can't get any at the moment, and I can't find any online.
>>29525686
No love for the Ithaca model 37?
>>29531488
Just picked up one of these as well, only it's an NEF.
Gonna cut it down to 18.2" and put a new bead on it.
>>29531630
Do you know how the choke would change after cutting it down? I know it's full choke at the original length but I don't know much about shotguns.
>>29531752
It just reverts to cylinder, that's all.
>>29525743
buy rifled slugs and a choke for slugs and you'll do fine with a smooth bore and a bead
>>29525743
rifled barrels are a waste of money, rifled slugs are good enough for the ranges that you should be firing slugs.
>>29530488
>implying same fag
But this didn't prove anything. The guy DID get shot in the video and only survived because of the attackers complacency and/or incompetence, not because he didn't bring enough ammo.
Look pal if you're seriously autistic or something just say so now. As much as I don't like them I don't pick on special needs kids.
>>29531618
Any problem they might be having is probably under wraps for now.
>>29531626
They're not easy to find, but yeah we love 'em
>>29532615
Mate, I'm not interested in boschittin, I'm saying he shot the guy 5 times and didn't bring him down. If you wanna pretend you're a delta oprator and every one of your shots is a perfect CNS, go for it. For the rest of us, we'll take 30 over 8.
is a mossberg 930 spx a solid choice?
I somehow like the look of it. + i think a reliable semiauto shotgun is a nice thing to have.
>>29533325
If you need THIRTY shots to kill one guy, then you have bigger problems than choice of gun, you moron.
You don't need 30, you don't even need 6, you just need one well placed shot to kill someone. More often than not, people die from one or two shots of any gun, whether it be rifle or handgun or whatever. The video posted is such an ultra rare occurence that it baffles me to think that because of this one instance you think that this is a prime case against anything with low ammo capacity.
Get the fuck off /k/, turn off your computer, take your mom's van down to your local ghetto, and go and provoke a gangbanger. More than likely they'll drop you within the first two shots, and wouldn't need the rest of the six shots his hi point was carrying to prove how much of a dipshit you are.
Now imagine someone who actually trains with his guns, instead of some hoodrat trash, firing at you. More than likely they'll land every one of their shots, whether they carry some 5 round revolver or a glock 17.
Capacity matters, but it doesn't ever replace good shot placement. Anyone who isn't some shithead millenial wannabe operator will tell you the same thing.
>>29533345
Yeah they're pretty solid. If you can afford paying twice that though, I'd really suggest a Benelli. I have an M2 and Supernova Tactical (pump) and they are pieces of art. The action is chrome-lined and is smooth as butter. Supposedly the Benelli autos work better with light loads than any other auto gun maker.
>>29526098
I've had to use a shotgun in home defense situation, from first hand experience I can easily say you're retarded.
Sure it does not have a high cap...sure it's not the quickest thing to load, my god the thing is devastating up close. The person was shot just a lil bit above the belly button, he bleed out before ambulance even got there.
The person was not a dindu, or some crack head...he was a room mate / friend who had way to much to drink....who stabbed his gf with a knife and try to come at me.
She survived, which I think her being such a fat ass helped with that. Such a terrible thing to go through, even worse cause he was a friend.
>>29533962
How disorentating was the shot? I once fired my P30 without any ear pro besides the obvious EEEEEEE I got a bit dizzy briefly, can only imagine the dizzy period would be much more intense?
>>29533971
>How disorentating was the shot?
It's obviously going to be loud as fuck, especially with full power loads and an 18.5" barrel - but that's what low recoil(and therefore low noise) loads are for...preferably out of the longest barrel you feel comfortable with.
Your hearing wouldn't be any better off with a fucking AR, that's for damn sure.
>Sorry for the jew stock
>>29530488
>>29533325
Because we all know that getting hit with a .38 and getting hit with buckshot will have the same effect on someone.
>>29525686
If you want even the slimmest chance of being competitive for 3gun you *need* a semi.
Yes, you need multiple chokes to do multiple things. The most open I'd use to hunt with would be improved cylinder, and you'll probably also want either a modified or imp modified.
Most 3gun competitors use a 20-22" barrel with removable chokes, so a 3gun shotgun would work as both a hunting and HD shotgun.
>>29526089
>under $1000
>bit expensive for a shotgun
You do know there are more models of shotgun costing over $2000 than there are under $1000, right?
>>29533810
HD shotgun guys here, that's not necessarily true. If the attacker has a gun, then it's going to take more. It doesn't take 2 shots to kill two men, it takes more. I have a 8 shot tube and a 6 shot side saddle on my shotgun, but if there are more than 3 guys invading my house, things change. I'll take on 3 niggers with hipoints, but not without armor and a rifle.
Shot placement is king, but it's harder than most people think, so it takes volume of fire to compensate.
If you could only buy one shotgun with no option to swap barrels, for HD and shooting plates would you get one with a barrel of 24 or 28 inches?
>>29526089
>Vepr
>Expensive
Nah M8
odd contender: DP-12. I don't think it would be too good for 3 gun though. Perfect for home defense.
hey negroes, I'm poor as shit and want to get a gun for defense/camping/survival.
working with a budget max of 225 with tax, is it possible to get anything other than a single shot shotgun that isn't complete crap? I'm not the strongest person in the world so I'd probably end up going with either that or a simple 22 rifle
>>29535277
Because we all know he was mentioning revolvers in comparison.
>>29533810
>If you need THIRTY shots to kill one guy, then you have bigger problems than choice of gun, you moron.
>assuming one person will break in
>assuming he isn't doped up or crazy
>assuming one single reasonable individual will be the one to illegally enter your home
Lol, poor fella.
The rest of your post is just you being buttflustered and projecting, relax a little, open up your mind to the possibility that the best case scenario won't try to assault you, and then actually prepare. I don't care that you blew a bunch of cash on your tacticool piece of pump action shit, you shouldn't either, focus on a better home defense weapon.
>>29533962
I'm sorry to hear that friendo, +1 for defending yourself and preventing him from hurting others.
It hurts to put down Old Yeller, but, it's necessary. You can go to bed knowing that through your work one person died instead of 2 or even more.
1897 master clay busting race.
Light mount gets in the way of my front sling point, either need to find a super compact front swivel or switch to a one point sling.
>>29537586
you should be able to get a used mossberg500 or rem 870 for 200ish
the h&r pardnerpump, hawk 982, mav 88, and ria m5 are also in the 200-250 range new depending on sales any of em should be under 200 used
the idea of some guy wandering in the woods thinking hes prepared to defend himself with a gun he just bought and never fired cause he cant afford ammo horrifies me
>>29526089
>Vepr
>Expensive
Yeah don't ever look at how much any autoloading Beretta/Benelli is gonna cost.
>>29538048
I mean I am planning on practising with it, plus I already have a .17 air rifle I use for target/squirrel shooting, it's just that wouldn't do shit to a person or a larger animal
would a chiappa little badger be a viable alternative to a big shotgun? the ammo is cheaper and the gun is lighter
>>29538052
wow those cost literally more than my car
>>29538310
>would a chiappa little badger be a viable alternative to a big shotgun? the ammo is cheaper and the gun is lighter
depends on what you want to do with it
theres no real point in buying a single shot 22 when you can get a semiauto model 60 or 785 for the same amount
>>29525736
Yes, the 12 guage has only been the premiere home-defense weapon for more than a century, why would anyone want to employ it in that role?
Dimwit.
>>29538372
People used black powder weapons for centuries for fighting, hunting, and target shooting, too. Doesn't make black powder weapons good for that role.
>>29526098
LOL, if Giganigga broke down the door with a machete, I'd prefer one round of 000 buck to your shitty plastic gun full of useless 9mm.
Dimwit.
Shotgun Thread, eh?
Just picked it up today
Shoots like I expected it too. May be my new favorite shotgun.
>>29538372
>premiere home-defense weapon for more than a century
Spotted the fuddlore.
>>29538014
How hard do you have to swing the barrel to break the clays, and do you bother pulling the trigger to make it look like you shot them?
>>29538034
I put a single point sling on my shotgat and never looked back
>>29538695
Welcome brother!
>>29536728
Completely agree with this
As I said capacity is important if not a vital component to any scenario
>>29537634
His argument holds no real ground, because he's trying to compare apples and oranges. Even if this video had featured a shotgun it would've still been such an unlikely occurance.
As for you, I already said that if it calls for it then go ahead and prepare for the worst. If you live in a bad neighborhood or are in a dangerous line of work then you buy accordingly.
Some people like >>29537586 can't afford to spend thousands on your little pretend scanarios of 27 highly trained, doped up dindus showing up to kill you while you shit post on 4chan in your basement. Its always better to have more but don't be surprised that all that preparation means jack shit if you can't hit anything.
>>29539642
>some people can't afford to spend thousands
But my AR costed 800.
>27 highly trained, doped up dindus showing up to kill you while you shit post on 4chan in your basement.
Bro, legit, relax, this is 100% bonified lib logic that they use to try to get ARs banned. Just stop lol.
>cant hit anything
I can shoot just fine, I just know in intense situations it's good to have a little forgiveness in your magazine. This fallacy that having more ammunition means you're going to automagically turn into a shit shot is WW2 Stalin tier.
>>29539690
>lib logic
lib logic would be the "duty to flee" retardation they spew in the bad states.
Also I think your AR, plus plate carrier, plus a decent optic, plus extra mags, plus ammo should jack up the price past 1000.
And I already agreed that having more ammo is vital, so please don't misinterpret my words.
>>29539869
>plus plate carrier
Wat?
>And I already agreed that having more ammo is vital
Then what are you even arguing against lol. Sure, a shotgun works if thats all you can get, a 22 bolt action works if that's all you can get, good idea to bump it up a notch if you actually care about self defense.
You keep jumping to meme numbers, that's why it's lib logic. An AR is excellent for home defense and is used effectively in close quarters, shotguns put out a lot of hate, but you will always be limited in terms of capacity.
>>29539387
>>29538695
Bahahahaha!
Marlin Model 55 "Goose Gun." Fucking badass.
I am 3d printing a peep sight for mine. It has a 36" barrel with a polychoke and a 4" brake on it. I plan to use it for card shoots here in PA, it shoots the center out of a playing card at 20 yards or so.
>>29539924
Wait so you wouldnt quickly throw on some body armor if some guys broke in?
Also yes an AR is excellent I'm just saying that morons like the guy I was originally responding to are wrong in spreading bullshit like "a shotgun can't be used for HD"
It's like fuddlore but for todays world.
The whole "shotgun vs AR vs pistol for HD" debate that comes up incessantly is retarded. Obviously shotguns are lacking as infantry weapons outside of very specific uses, doesn't mean they aren't perfectly viable as defensive weapons in a non-military context. Anyone who says otherwise is a drooling fucking imbecile who needs to put down the controller for a bit and educate themselves.
>>29526121
The perspective is completely fucked in that picture, and does nothing to convey a realistic comparison of the actual dimensions of the guns
>>29538444
fallacy fallacy. all you did was argue he might be right, as a fallacy fallacy isnt if the argument is WRONG, but if it was argued badly. bad argument verse no argument, bad argument wins.
>>29540112
If I had time sure, if not you gotta grab rifle and go you know. First and foremost I'd try to put on my earpro.
>>29540376
For me it would be rifle, armor, and some plugs in that order
Figure if they get the jump on you then you might as well have rifle in hand first
>>29525686
Hey /k/ I've been asking around and I wanted to know what you guys think of the Maverick 88 shotgun.
My best bro wants a shotgun for home defense and the occasional range day. His budget is $250 or less and I want to shill him on the Maverick 88.
Does anyone have any good experience with them that can tell me if they are a good buy? In all honesty it's probably only going to be used a handful of times.
(pls don't try to shill me on pistols or AR's or anything out of the price range. personally I prefer pistol for HD but this is for him)
>>29531488
I have 2 of these shotguns, extremely well made. Very fuddy but for a hunting gun, they can't be beat. Weigh nothing and impossible to break.
My older one can have the forend removed with your fingers so you can break it down and put it inside a backpack. It is a 16 that I load for and take it into the woods for squirrels come October.
I once shot a skunk with my 12GA Pardner in my backyard. Fucking iced that little shit, have the skull on my woodpile.
Once I recover some more money after buying my ar-15 I'm going to get a benelli m(something) or a moss 930
Which one is better? The M4 seems overpriced for the features it adds.
Is there any reason to have a pump action instead of a semi auto? Reliability?
>>29539387
Love mine too
Love my 1897
A standard, 00 buckshot shotshell holds 9 .33 caliber projectiles.
This is why shotgun capacity arguments are retarded. You're not shooting a single projectile per trigger pull like you would with a rifle or handgun, but a cloud of projectiles. That cloud is most likely gonna tear right through the motherfucker and leave a jagged, 18.5mm+ hole in them.
Shot placement is still king, but with a shotgun you've got a lot more leeway than with any of the standard home defense rifle and handgun calibers.
>>29540458
Cheap.
>>29540487
>but a cloud of projectiles
>HD ranges
No.
>>29540503
It's still a cloud even if it's compact. I know that at most HD ranges the hole won't expand to be much bigger than a fist. Would 'cluster' trigger your autism less?
>>29526043
Don't get the mariner, that coating gets dingy over time and I seriously cannot find a single way to clean it. I hate mine, wish I had gotten matte black or blued.
>>29540524
>Shot placement is still king, but with a shotgun you've got a lot more leeway
The leeway is negligible you realize, you tried to sell it like it was going to spread. It's not. Though I like that you pretend trying to inform people of the truth is autism.
>>29540432
I heard the Pardner Pump is a good budget shotgun and cheaper than the Maverick. I also heard people have problems with the Maverick.
Both are probably good, honestly.
>>29526043
just ordered a cheap 20 inch barrel for my mossberg 500 from ebay. Picked it over the 18.5 because it was cheaper and threaded for chokes if I'm ever feeling saucy. Should be a huge difference over the 28 inch that came with it.
>>29526392
Mossman!
I have an old Remy 1100. But I want a pump gun. Is there any tangible difference between the Mossy 500 or 590A1?
>>29540590
9A1
>>29540458
You can shoot a crazy array of shells such as magnum buckshot, beanbags and also aguila minishells in the same magazine. Some pump guns are just sweet like the Winchester model 12, 870, etc. Semi-autos can also be damaged if you shoot them on the wrong gas or recoil setting depending on the action. By and large, they are retard proof.
Don't get me wrong, I love both. My Saiga 12 and Browning Auto-5 Sweet Sixteen are boner inducing.
>>29526820
I have two, they're actually pretty great. Standard models though, not the Miculek. Buy 3-dram "super" loads if you're going to shoot clays with it.
No tacticool slug changeovers, though, it can't do it.
>>29540443
Get an M3
>>29540536
This guy is right. The spread is negligible at common HD range. Although when the shots land they do plenty of damage to stop someone in their tracks, especially at HD ranges
>>29540536
Okay, so let's say you shoot someone point blank with a 12 gauge. The entry hole is gonna be roughly 18.5mm, and the exit is going to be ghastly.
A hole that size IS leeway. Whether you want to admit it or not. This isn't like .45 vs 9mm where the size difference is negligible, that's more than double the size of a 9.
>>29540634
And if the shot still isn't properly placed...
>>29526121
the bottom looks to have a longer stock. Line up the receivers and take the picture
>>29540650
>shot placement is still king
>>29525736
>this post
How embarrassing.
>>29540524
As an example of how little it expands:
>remington 1100, 26" field barrel
>skeet choke (in between cylinder and imp. cylinder)
>Remington Gun Club #8 birdshot
>cardboard silhouette at 7 yards
>hole size of 7/8ths of an inch with no flyers, wad hadn't even separated from shot column yet
So we're talking 21 feet, well beyond home defense ranges, with effectively zero spread.
>>29526234
i've got one and i like it a bunch.
>>29540536
I'd even argue that there is less leeway since multiple pellets means more to account for in the target background. If you don't know how your gun patterns with a specific choke and ammunition, and your pattern does not land 100% center mass, you could kill or injure someone who is not the target.
>>29540634
what makes you think there will be an exit?
>>29540650
You're still going to inflict a grievous amount of harm on someone. I'm by no means a fan of shotguns as weapons, however one thing they do have is the ability to make what would be considered a bad hit into an effective manstopper. This is imply because of the sheer amount of raw wound they can inflict.
Someone takes a 9mm, .45, or even something like a 5.56 to the shoulder? They might be pretty okay.
Someone takes a rounds of 12 Gauge 00 to the shoulder, you're talking about massive, multiple projectile trauma that has likely rendered the limb useless.
"
The wounds are also harder to treat since you're producing so many of them. A surgeon digging for all 9 pellets or trying to figure out what wound track all 9 of them took is nothing to sneeze at.
Like I said, I don't care for shotguns as weapons and use an AR for home defense. But give them credit where that credit is due, which is their unparalleled ability to inflict rack and ruin to persons or property.
>>29540688
>Shotgun loaded with anything suitable for people like 00 or #4
>Not exiting
Shotguns regularly penetrate >20" of 5% gel.
>>29540688
>I've never shot a shotgun
>>29540688
>point blank
Do you mother fuckers read? Birdshot will penetrate through a person at point blank unless they're wearing body armor.
>>29540650
can you tell me what the difference of survival rate is, compared to just clipping someone heart, and directly hitting someones heart
at point blank range with a shotgun
>>29540590
590A1 is the tougher Milspec version with the beefier metal trigger assembly (instead of plastic). Both uses the same accessories and you can buy the cheaper 500 and upgrade most of the internals to a 590A1 later on if cashflow is an issue.
Here is a good video highlighting the differences:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr9_SYMmEmY
>>29540704
neat
>>29540094
Mine is 36" as well. Is steel shot a go or no go through my fixed full choke? Ihave people sayboth.
>>29539387
It is one hell of a shotgun
>>29540727
Its not unsafe but it will most likely pattern like ass and may scratch up the inside of the barrel.
>>29540703
not point blank at a person, but >>29540697 gave a reasonable explanation.
>>29526392
i went with the moss, ainf failed me yet
>>29540710
I'm talking capacity again. You can just aim the bitch down the hall and expect some kind of death cloud. See >>29540670
>>29540689
Fuck mate, the human body doesnt have a health counter. You blow a chunk of shoulder out of a guy it's still a chunk of shoulder. You blow a hole through their gut it's still their gut.
Only direct stoppers are CNS, heart if you count it and even that takes a few seconds.
>>29540688
At HD ranges (20ft or less) pretty much anything bigger than lead #5 birdshot or steel #3 birdshot should exit an adult male assuming he's shot straight on. So magnum pheasant loads or almost all waterfowl loads, and all buckshot and slugs.
>>29540780
If you shoot 00buck at the chest in HD distances the heart and lungs will be ripped to pieces in a tenth of a second, and the spinal cord will follow suite in the next tenth of a second. Oxygen supply will cut off immediately and limbs will lose their nervous system link. The man will drop and be dead by the time he hits the floor.
If not, fire another volley.
>>29540826
Depends on where you hit him in the chest, again, it won't spread significantly. You hit him in the right lung, collapse it, cause a large amount of internal bleeding. He's got another lung, the human body can hang on for minutes, enough time to kill you.
Would a 12ga shotgun blow limbs off at point blank? Always wondered.
>>29540794
so with that in mind, is there a reason buckshot is used as the standard HD round? is it just larger wound channel having a better shot at being more lethal? Or would a magnum pheasant load be just as bad with more, yet smaller wound channels?
>>29540848
No.
>>29540780
>Mate
Opinion disregarded.
>>29540879
>says mate
>hur dur Australia meme
Except I'm not.
>>29540843
It wouldn't spread significantly out of the barrel, yes, but you have no idea what the buck will do inside the body when it contacts different density organs, bones, or cavities. Average spread with open choke and the shortest non NFA barrel possible at 10 yards is what, 2 inches? That's a massive entry wound.
>>29540826
Uh, not really.
At HD ranges 00buck will punch anywhere from a 0.740" to 2.000" hole straight through them with a single homogenous wound channel and very little secondary wounding. If that happens to be through the heart, spine, aortic arch, or brachiocephalic trunk they drop immediately. If it punches through a lung, they survive another 30 minutes to 5 days (with no medical treatment) depending on how high in the lung they're hit. Perforate the diaphragm or liver they're alive for another 15 minutes and conscious for 10 of it. Get either the upper or lower vena cava and they've got a minute or two.
>>29540888
>It wouldn't spread significantly out of the barrel, yes, but you have no idea what the buck will do inside the body when it contacts different density organs
Yes I do, you can look at wound channels all over the place, for actual killings to ballistic tests.
>>29540863
Less stuff stops/slows/deflects buckshot. A heavy leather biker jacket might turn what would've been a lethal hit into a pissy and hurting thug with pheasant loads, but 00buck will truck right through it. Same with walls, windows, furniture, etc.
Birdshot, due to its shape, gets slowed down and deflected very easily.
>>29540968
good to know, thanks
based off that, what's everyone here use as their go-to hd round for 12 gauge?
I've so many Mossbergs it's hard to keep track
>picked up Lyman 525 mold last week
>loaded a case of ammo
>slugster barrel/scope for the 835 out for delivery tomorrow
Can't wait to lob stupidsized air gun pellets 100+ yards and leave fist sized holes in things on Sunday
>>29541117
#4 buck low recoil loads, but my scattergun is a backup for my SBR AR with 62gr Federal Fusion.
>>29541117
#4 Buck has 21 .25 caliber pellets in one shot. I think that's a goodly amount of lead. I fear 00 Buck has too much recoil for quick follow up shots.
>>29541436
*Excuse me 27 pellets
>>29541436
Work on your arms.
>>29541519
Fuck you I'm tall I can't get my arms to get big.
I must acquire more scoops
>>29541534
Wut.
>>29541534
C'MON
>>29540432
hickoc45 did a review a week ago.
one difference i noticed between the mossberg and maverick shotguns was the maverick88s actuator bars were pinned to the plastic forearm rather than being attached to a metal frame that the forearm attatches to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6EZVFEC228
>>29541534
Anyone can get strong arms, you scrub
DP12
Shotguns are nice all-around guns and idiot-proof but a compact machine pistol is far superior for personal defense because of superior handling characteristics.
>>29540650
...uh, yeah. whatever thats got to do with what was being talked about. here, let me sup it up for you
your target paper radius is 10 inches, and your target on this is 1 inch radius.
lets say your bullet is 1 inch radius. this gives you around 2.9 inches radius circle you can hit and still hit your target.
now lets say its a a bullet with a 2 inch radius. your target is still 1 inch radius. you can now hit anywhere within a 4.9 inch radius and still hit the target
you could be 50% less accurate, in comparison, and still score a direct shot.
does this make sense to you. do you understand how a larger bullet makes it more likely to hit a target?
>if you miss
well, if you miss with a smaller bullet, dosent make it any more accurate, does it
>>29542702
>50%
herp, not exactly, but yeah
and to add the the end part, if you missed your shot by 5 inches, whats going to be closer. the 4 inch wide bullet, or the 1 inch bullet. onces 4 inches away or so, and ones...1 inch away.
If you want a shotgun you can potentially use for 3Gun, might as well get an autoloader.
Mossy 930 JM Pro checking in for a great option
>>29542702
Do you understand how the difference is negligible? Shot placement is king, penetration is queen. Everything else is extra bullshit added, and when you have say 30 chances to make a CNS shot instead of 8, I'll opt for 30. How fucking stupid can you be?
>>29542763
>do you understand how the difference is negligible
in the example i posted? uh...about 40%.
On a head shot, placement being king...thats...6 inches wide. so with a 1 inch bullet, you could hit anywhere between a 7.99 inches circle and score a hit. but with a 2 inch boolit, thats about 9.99 inches. so, a 25% more space?
so...a bunch?
>>29542139
The pump on that thing seems so shitty from the videos I've seen of it. Can you confirm or deny?
>>29541436
2-3/4 00 buck is tame from a normal shotgun... once you shoot some 3" magnum 00 and slugs through it.
If its still too much for your babby arms then try 00 'Tactical loads' (low recoil)
Federal makes some good ones with a flight control wad that gives nice groups and they still pack enough punch for ranges where buck shot would be a good choice.
>>29542875
I'm not sure you're following, if you're on you're on, if you're off you're off. What is a 25% space increase when you have almost 400% more shots?
>>29542960
why have 400% more shots if shot placement is king? what good is 30 missed shots?
>>29542993
Not good at all, why are you assuming it would be 30 missed shots?
>>29543014
why are you assuming it wouldnt? otherwise, why would you value quantity of quality?
what do you seriously believe is more likely. the firefights still going at 25 shots in, or 5 shots in.
wouldnt this imply that shot placement IS king, and you should focus on weapons that will have a higher chance of striking straight away, then relying on missing 20 times and then hitting, vastly less likely to happen?
>>29543051
>why are you assuming it wouldnt? otherwise, why would you value quantity of quality?
Okay delta, prove to me you can hit multiple targets flawlessly on the CNS while being shot at.
Oh right, you can't, you have 0 experience on the matter. Me too, difference is I don't pretend I'll be absolutely perfect when my life depends on it, I account for possible flaws, and I want forgiveness in my magazine if I do fuck up.
Shot placement IS king, I'll do my absolute best and practice regularly, but I'd be a fool if I didn't plan for the worst case scenario, and I'd be a fool if I thought I'd be a perfect shot in those circumstances.
tl;dr having a larger magazine doesn't magically make you a worse shot and you're a fucking idiot if you think it does, and you're a fucking idiot if you think it means I intend to just start spraying, it just means I have more rounds to work with against multiple attackers and in the event I do miss. Get over it, AR > Shotgun
Ahhhh, what a cluster fuck of weak arguments not addressing the most pertinent issue here....
If you only had time to pull your trigger once, aiming center mass, due to incoming fire, because hurf durf, unpredictable HD scenario, why are you not considering anything other than "If I only had one shot to make." ???
If I had a one-shot-chance of surviving, I'd want a scattergat. I'm a bachelor. No nearby neighbors. Most important to list factors.
I could simply swiss cheese my home with my rpk+75round drum, seeing as how cutting the pie outta my hallway with my fuck huge 30" barrel might get my raifu grabbed by aforementioned "giganigga"... But I don't imagine myself to be some irl CS1.3 reaction time super operator/wall shooter, I'll probably have a 1 or 2 second reaction time trying to identify then aim towards my target. For all I know, my opponent is waiting for me already ads. So I figure unannounced defensive posture + the-most-likely-1shot-drop gun is a 3" magnum loading 00buck out of a 16.25"
If incoming fire causes me know o retreat, or worse, I want my only traded shot (obviously thinking worst case scenario is the only scenario worth thinking about) to count the most.
Best case scenario? Sheeeeeeyit.jpg
We can only hope.
>>29526677
A shotgun is much more versatile, deadly, and (depending on the load), way less of a danger to the neighbors and even people in the same house. You're an idiot. Stop posting now.
>>29543090
>this whole post
>>29543096
>A shotgun is much more versatile
Depends.
>deadly
Naw
>and (depending on the load), way less of a danger to the neighbors and even people in the same house
Ditto
>You're an idiot. Stop posting now.
Nope, you'll get over it, sorry you're wrong and I'm making you look like a jackass but, I'm here forever.
>>29526121
is that top one a mav 88?
>>29527653
>inb4 mmmuh .38
>disses .38
>thinks 9mm is great stuff
lol
>>29543150
Wat?
>>29534062
>Your hearing wouldn't be any better off with a fucking AR, that's for damn sure.
I have a Zasteva AK pistol in 5.56...that is the loudest shit I've heard in my life. I can't even imagine firing it indoors, let alone in a hallway or something.
I've shot shotguns but I don't own any. I want my first shotgun to be a Vepr 12. How retarded am I?
>>29543074
>okay delta, prove to me you can hit multiple targets flawlessly on the CNS while being shot at
...i cant. thats why you would choose something that fires a bigger bullet or has a wider spread. so it does have more likely odds of hitting the cns. are you even following the conversation here?
>I don't pretend I'll be absolutely perfect when my life depends on it
absolutely. a near miss with a rifle however can be a hit with a shotgun. useful if your under pressure.
>but I'd be a fool if I didn't plan for the worst case scenario
absolutely. but your hindering the more likely scenarios ( firefight of less then 10 shots ) to benefit the less likely one ( firefight makes it to 11-30 shots ).
what are you not following?
>>29537634
>open up your mind to the possibility that the best case scenario won't try to assault you, and then actually prepare.
Then we can call you a fucking tryhard with your large cap pistol, since you're not rocking a belt-fed LMG in your underground bunker? What? You only have a 19 round semi-auto Glock? Why won't you open your mind to the possibility that the best case scenario won't try to assault you, and then actually prepare?
Dumbass.
>>29543200
>thats why you would choose something that fires a bigger bullet
Or choose more bullets
>or has a wider spread
It won't at HD ranges.
>so it does have more likely odds of hitting the cns. are you even following the conversation here?
Yes, 25% larger diameter wound, 400% more shots, I'll go with 400% more shots.
>absolutely. a near miss with a rifle however can be a hit with a shotgun
Show me the statistics, or hell even any military / leo / civilian training regiment that supports this being a direct advantage.
>absolutely. but your hindering the more likely scenarios
>hindering the more likely scenario
>by preparing for the worst case
>hinder
What? Even, the fuck?
>>29543208
>glock
Why do people keep thinking I have a glock lol?
>>29541117
>go-to hd round for 12 gauge?
#4 buck. The number of projectiles/wound channels is hard to argue with.
If I lived in the country, with neighbors over a hundred yards away, I'd use that Centurion/Nobel Sports buck-and-ball load, the one with the .65 lead ball and six #1 buckshot balls.
>>29542763
>when you have say 30 chances to make a CNS shot instead of 8, I'll opt for 30. How fucking stupid can you be?
How about stupid enough to think a .223 round's chance of hitting something vital is equal to a 12-guage shell's load of buckshot balls?
>>29543294
Because the spread will be no larger than the tube at hd range.
>>29543126
>Depends.
Yeah, your Glock or AR has loads available to it that range from the smallest birdshot to the biggest rifled slugs. No question, the versatility is questionable.
>>deadly
>Naw
You're joking, right? Or just fucking retarded?
>Nope, you'll get over it, sorry you're wrong and I'm making you look like a jackass
Oh, okay...clear now. Definitely retarded. Thanks for clearing that up.
>>29543194
I'd say you are not. The Vepr 12 looks like a cool shotgun. I plan on getting one for my first auto loader shotgun because I like my RPK so a AK in 12 gauge appeals to me.
Obviously an ARES lmg in pistol length is best HD weapon. Don't forget to wear a claymore mine on your plate carrier (front toward enemy obviously, I'm not suggesting you kys, or am I? ) as your instant retreat mechanism when the inevitable incoming fire starts rolling your way.
Fucking douchebag thread derailment here.
OP just get a double barreled loaded with 3-1/2 " magnum 00buck, and a bandolier, just like your favorite vidya. Practice your speed reloads. Announce your presence and intent to kill anyone found inside the home, then proceed to cut the pie that's been sitting on your window sill. Filthy cartoon home invasion niggers.
Just call the cops in a loud voice and audibly make the "chk, chk chk" all guns make while engaging your nearest tactical room fan so the hideous reek of your freshly-shat drawers wafts out of your walk-in closet to inform your enemy that you are duly locked and loaded for "aforementioned gingerninja ".
Also, let them know you're a racist firefighter. They may just confuse you for a highly experienced reeldeel operations soldier with a earned valor CIB.
>>29543341
>Yeah, your Glock or AR has loads available to it that range from the smallest birdshot to the biggest rifled slugs. No question, the versatility is questionable.
And your shotgun will never be able to kill out to 500 meters accurately, have 30 rounds standard, or ever make real use of precision magnified optics.
So yeah, it depends.
>deadly
I didn't say it wasn't deadly, I said it was no more deadly than an AR. Shot placement is shot placement, shotguns don't do 100% damage on human contact where ARs only do 60%, it's more complex than that, a shot into the spine with an AR works just as well as a shot to the spine with a shotgun.
>Oh, okay...clear now. Definitely retarded. Thanks for clearing that up
Retarded because you don't own the site and I don't listen to you when you say leave? Especially when the only reason you're telling me to leave is because you have no real argument to stand on and can't face me with logic or reasoning.
>>29543233
>>or has a wider spread
>It won't at HD ranges.
It will AT THE FUCKING MUZZLE.
Beyond that, it spreads around ONE INCH PER YARD. at six feet, it's more than 4x the width of your .223. You think "home defense range" equals "too close for a knife to be a good idea"?
>>29543327
>Because the spread will be no larger than the tube at hd range.
Only if you think "hd range" is less than 3 feet. And even at the fucking MUZZLE, 12 guage is larger than any handgun or rifle round. Not to mention, the shot shell will star spreading as soon as it contacts soft tissue.
You really ARE an idiot, you know.
>>29543393
>Beyond that, it spreads around ONE INCH PER YARD
Cite it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKk45i9DzDA&nohtml5=False
>>29543407
>You really ARE an idiot, you know.
Okay tumblertale
>>29540536
>The leeway is negligible you realize
Even from a full choke you can expect the shot to spread about 1" per yard between you and the target, at 3 yards that's a 3" circle that the shot will be landing in. Yes, that would give you some leeway on shot placement.
>>29543366
>>"chk, chk chk"
Sound advice.
My entendres are the best doubles I can hope for.
>>ITT I posted double doubles, because witnessed double doubles, nobody'll get it though. Squared in fact.
>>29543385
>And your shotgun will never be able to kill out to 500 meters accurately, have 30 rounds standard, or ever make real use of precision magnified optics.
and yeah, being lethal at 500 yards, needing 30 rounds, and using precision magnified optics will ever be an issue in any sort of conceivable home defense scenario (which is THE FUCKING POINT OF THIS THREAD, YOU FUCKING MUPPET).
>I didn't say it wasn't deadly, I said it was no more deadly than an AR.
And you're showing how ignorant your ass is by doing so. Going by your argument, a .223 round is just as deadly as a 120 mm tank gun round, because either one hitting a CNS area is lethal. No fucking shit! But when you shoot a .223 at someone's center mass, you have a ~55 grain bullet running them through, possible hitting something vital and killing them, or possible not. When you have a 12 guage load of buckshot hitting them, you've got from a dozen TO A COUPLE DOZEN bullets, of similar size, impacting the same area and making their own individual tracks through it, each one potentially hitting or missing a vital spot. Are you beginning to see the FUCKING difference?
>Retarded because you don't own the site and I don't listen to you when you say leave?
Yeah.....cuz THAT'S TOTALLY what I said...
You really ARE fucking retarded, man.
>>29543442
I want In n Out now.
Calicucks masterrace.
>>29543441
Cite it.
>http://rifleshooter.com/2013/01/defensive-shotgun-patterning-deconstructing-the-1-per-yard-myth/
Fucking fudds.
>>29543451
And in terms of those ranges, all your different loads mean nothing, if you're using birdshot for home defense you fucked up, so all that versatility has nothing to do with home defense.
>And you're showing how ignorant your ass is by doing so. Going by your argument, a .223 round is just as deadly as a 120 mm tank gun round
Lib logic.
>TO A COUPLE DOZEN bullets, of similar size, impacting the same area and making their own individual tracks through it, each one potentially hitting or missing a vital spot. Are you beginning to see the FUCKING difference?
>completely ignoring 5.56 mechanics at 2700+ fps
Wew lad.
>>29543484
>Cite it.
My own testing of the ammo that I use for home defense (S&B 27 pellet #4 buckshot) at the distances I could expect to use it at, and my own testing of the shot that I use for shooting clays.
>>29543501
>My own testing of the ammo that I use for home defense (S&B 27 pellet #4 buckshot) at the distances I could expect to use it at, and my own testing of the shot that I use for shooting clays.
Provide evidence. Otherwise it is anecdote and dismissed.
hey /k/, i had an idea
Get shotgun shell, fill it with birdshot, and the place a glass vial of HIV positive blood in the center
would a home intruder get infected?
>>29543607
No you retard, HIV won't live that long outside of the body.
>>29543484
>Lib logic.
>Idiot reply
>>29543527
>Provide evidence.
Just did.
>Otherwise it is anecdote and dismissed.
Dismissed by a retard does not equal not-provided.
Child, you really need to back the fuck up, sit the fuck down, and listen to your elders.
>>29543788
>Just did.
The fuck? Where? Post it lol.
>>29543778
Not really, at all.
>>29543618
What if I keep a vial of the infected blood in the fridge and put in new drops of uninfected blood (my own pinpricks) now and then, would that keep feeding the HIV in the infected blood alive long enough to keep a stock of infected vial shells?
Also, this thread really went downhill fast. AR guy, yeah you're right, but OP just wanted some simple shotgun advice, not simple best HD options advice. Also other guy? Jesus Christ man you make older people look like some real jackasses if they're all like you. I'm in my 30's, I know better, but for any younger people you are really poisoning them towards the reasonability of their communal elders. Grow up.
>>29540748
Mine was made in 87 and that was the same year as the lead ban for upland hunting. I really would like to use it, this up coming duck season.
I normally use 3", #2 shot out of a Savage fox B Side by Side.
Italian gunner reportin' in. We do have the pride of some of the best shotguns around, yet our pump action choices sucks donkey balls.
Good but overpriced IMHO. So, i went with the same old song of our land.
The O/Us have been inhereited from my dad.
>>29539371
I have an irrational hate for 1 points, it's 2 point or nuffin. I found and ordered a magazine end cap that has a swivel so that should solve it.
>>29540443
I like my m4 more than my dad's 930
georgian here
us made shotguns are rare here, so thinking of nova with pistol grip 18.5
anyone experience with it
>>29547009
novas shit all over the 870 and 500 unless you want to customize
>>29526392
Mossman
Remshit has gone down hill dramatically. Every 870 in our store has surface rust on it.
>>29547861
>>29526392
>Chinaman 870 clones (IAC Hawk 982, H&R Pardner) are better quality than actual 870s now
>>29547037
well, not planing to.
thanks m8
