yeah i know, pics of a softair, but that was the first pic i found with both weapons in it, so...
jeah i am from a country where you are not allowed to have such weapons. and even if, gettig hands on a mp7 is not that easy.
so is there someone who probably shot with both ones? which one is better, also, wich round is btter in general?
the only advantage of the p90 are the amount of rounds it seems and the faster rounds. but in vids tested against crisat the 4,6 overperformanced the 5,7 by penetrating deeper and tumbling in the wound.
but regarding this topic i am just a keyboard warrior, so what about you guys? i think here are enough people who shot some of these guns.
Fired the mp7 briefly on the range with the Gardaí when we shared ranges. Its comfortable in the shoulder, has very little kick with not much climb from automatic firing. Didn't get a chance to hip fire. I've never seen a real P90, but I'm guessing cops in Belgium use it.
>>29523065
nice :) i sav a vid from iraqveteran8888 (i think that some guys here will know him) and i was so suprisd how tiny and silent this gun is. while at the sime time it hs devastating fast body armor piercing rounds.
to me it seems as an awesome close combat weapon. and because it is h&k i would guess that it is really dead on target for an mp type of gun.
>>29523008
P90 outperformed the HK MP7 in almost every area during the US military PDW trials, and then H&K threw a bitchfit and had the whole program shut down
4.6 was worse in almost every way than 5.7x28
If you're shooting someone with body armor in a defensive situation, you've really fucked up somewhere along the way. neither round will penetrate plates.
>>29523134
as vids are showing both rounds pentrate body armor at 100 meter and more. both fuck up crisat.
but are there infos about these trials? like, do you know where or what i should google to get some infos?
>>29523176
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_5.7%C3%9728mm#NATO_evaluation
>The results of the NATO tests were analyzed by a group formed of experts from Canada, France, the United Kingdom, and the United States, and the group's conclusion was that the 5.7×28mm was "undoubtedly" the more efficient cartridge
>NATO group cited superior effectiveness (27 percent greater) for the 5.7×28mm against unprotected targets and equal effectiveness against protected targets.[11] It also cited less sensitivity to extreme temperatures for the 5.7×28mm, and cited a greater potential risk of barrel erosion with the 4.6×30mm
>>29523187
thank you mate :)
would be nice to know how they tested these rounds but 27% is some kind. not even biased testing should make that kind of a difference.
I spent some range time with a p90. It was great without a vest on but impossible to shoulder well in plates. I ended up bracing it on my chest and shooting well enough to qualify. I don't like the trigger at all but once I got used to it didn't affect accuracy. It isn't enough of an improvement over a piston ar with a folding stock to justify the expence and the extra training for me. The swat guys love the thing tho and the Homeland Security guys have such varied training that they don't really complain about anything or give an honest opinion to some range supervisor they don't know.
>>29523242
I'd assume ballistic gel temporary cavity/permanent channel stuff. But i'd have to look into the wiki sources.
>>29523254
these are the ones i know of, and they are in favor of the 4,6, so...
4.6x30 CRISAT Ballistic Gel 20%:
https://youtu.be/t3QgW4p1rWk
5.7x28 SS190 CRISAT 20% Ballistic Gel:
https://youtu.be/9sh2gPz-KdQ
>>29523187
not a surprise really.
>50 rounds standard for the P90 vs. 20/30/40 round magazines for the mp7
>5.7 is a bigger bullet than the 4.6
>>29523267
And the 5.7 has the luxury of load variety soooo....
You can also tell a lot about the two companies, FNH and H&K by the fact that one of those has a civilian version.
>>29523436
but isn't that more about germanys laws and such?
>>29523008
mp7's don't (meaningfully) exist becuase hk doesn't have an interest in the largest arms market in the world.
It's like asking whether a zebra or a quaga is better.
>>29523510
Pretty much. Sorta like the hk hates you meme. Hk got fucked hard by US politics back in the day and some people claimed it was just Hk being bastards. Now they have to deal with the US import laws and Germany's fucked up export lays. If they we're allowed to be HK would probably be more like FN. I would happily trade the entirety of Colt for HK since they're like the anti-colt in a way.
That being said I don't give a fuck about the MP7 and Hk has a weird track record. But that's what happens when you actually try new stuff.they can't all be winners
>>29523798
yep. sadly we here aren't allowed to have most weapons. i own a gladius for home defence (in real close combat better than a pistol i think) but i want to shoot something on the range just for fun. sadly i am not allowed to.
like what could happen? what would be the worst case? not gangbanging against the state because guns against tanks and aircrafts and shit is a bad idea. and most guns used in crimes are illegal. so pwning legal firearms will do nothing in this regard.
Can you even get an MP7?
Anyhow P90 is objectively superior.
>>29523941
I'm sorry the impact of two world wars killed most of your men and scarred everyone else badly enough to instill toxic guilt for generations. I'm sorry for you and for the rest of the euros. But it's up to you enthusiasts now, nothing will change if you don't make yourselves known
Don't mind me, just posting high capacity armor piercing PDW.
>>29523955
Theres a few of them floating around in Canada before the imports were stopped (like 4 or 5). Last one online the dude was asking around 10 grand and I think you got a 1000 rounds of ammo with it as well.
This was years ago so who knows the pricing now.
>>29523242
>>29523102
Go back to whorebook.
For all practical purposes the P90 is better
But the MP7 gets my dick harder than any other PDW.
>>29523008
>the only advantage of the p90 are the amount of rounds it seems and the faster rounds. b
I dimly remember that the mp7 would have to have been "handed in" for "maintenance" every 500 rounds or warranty would go void or something
>HK, right?
p90 is in stargate....
mp7.... not so
p90ftw
>>29524186
>here aren't allowed to have most weapons. i own a gladius for home defence (in real close combat better than a pistol i think) but i want to shoot something on the range just for fun. sadly i am not allowed to.like what could happen? what would be the worst case? not gangbanging against the state because guns against tanks and aircrafts and shit is a bad idea. and most guns used in crimes are illegal. so pwning legal firearms will do nothing in this regard.
finally I spread my disease calls th cbj yes make it a meme
>>29523102
Are you 13?
>>29524803
Yeah piston cleaning by certified armorers or some shit. I never saw a source though
>>29525240
hey at least I am not misremembering. great. thanks.
test
>>29523941
How is a Gladius better than a pistol for home protection?
1 has to be swung with considerable force, the other requires you to move your finger.
1 can project force 2 feet past your reach, the other can cover any distance in your home.
1 has no ammo the other has at least 5 trys at stopping a foe.
You cant gladius a mans throat through the bathroom door even slightly reliably, the other can blast through a bathroom door and kill whats on the other side with extreme regularity.
1 needs swinging room the other needs a few inches to 0 to function.
One requires alot of training and the other (for apartment and hallway distences) very low amounts of training.
How exactly is a sword or knife of any variety better than a pistol?
>>29526033
Echo?
>>29524753
>For all practical purposes the P90 is better
excessive weight and awkward magazine change isn't what I'd call practical
>>29524803
>>29525240
Due to the separate piston head being small and possible to lose, they made it requires a tool to remove. Considering the role that the weapon was made to fill (carried a lot, fired almost never, and a replacement for a pistol), it makes sense.
>>29526754
I disagree it doesn't make any sense. Imagine if a handgun company tried to get away with that when marketing a service pistol, it would not be tolerated. I don't why H&K time and time again thinks it can write its own rules.
>>29526836
Because in the past it has worked.
>>29526836
There are still common handguns that require a tool to disassemble, see the Walther CCP and 1911s with guide rods. If I'm remembering correctly, there's nothing keeping HK from changing the design so the piston head could be removed without tools but then they risk a grunt losing it. The gas piston head on on the M1 carbine is similar.
>>29527048
It's one thing to have a weapon serviceable by any person with a set of punches and a mallet, it's another thing entirely to require it to be sent to an H&K™ certified armorer to clean out a fucking gas piston system when that's something that's field serviceable on hundreds of other weapons.
>>29527182
>an H&K™ certified armorer
...you mean the regular armorer, or do you think that armorers aren't certified to work on all the weapons that get issued?
>>29526836
Doubt any of use are ever going to put enough rounds through one to find out and honestly that's just what HK would like guys to do. Doesnt mean that's whata going to happen since end users rum the gamut from complete detail strips, bore cleaning and MPI testing return springs after 10 rounds to avoid any and all cleaning until failure occurs to acting like shit is maintained by tech priests.
500 rounds is probably ideal but not mandatory.
>>29527048
>1911s with guide rods
Bull/belled barrels anon. Not guide rods. For everything else the 1911 is it's own toolbox.
>>29527230
Are you too dense to understand that being an armorer doesnt make you a master of all manufactured weaponry. Look at your statement for a while and think about why it was even worth the time to post it
>>29526694
>excessive weight and awkward magazine change
Are made up for by a standard 50 round magazine and a better performing round.
>>29527302
>being an armorer doesnt make you a master of all manufactured weaponry
No, but you are required to have knowledge of repairing the weapons that are issued.
>>29527481
Yep, once you get cleared for that weapon, which means fuck all for everyone that isn't the armorer. See why that's an issue yet?
>>29523244
>piston AR
:/
Downvote
>>29524900
Dubs McZeros is right.
>>29528309
>emoticon
>le downboat
You gotta be fucking with me right now.
I can't comment on the MP7, because I haven't even seen one in the flesh. However, I have rented a P90 and put about 500 rounds down the pipe with it.
The rate of fire was ridiculous, but it was surprisingly controllable. The controls were right where you'd expect them to be, very easy to pick up right off the bat. I would enjoy one if it was available in full auto or had decent ammunition on the shelf. It seems like a novelty for regular joes like you and me.
>>29523008
Getting hands on an MP7 in almost any case is not easy.
I like the ergonomics/manual of arms of the MP7 much more than the PS90. Rate of Fire is pretty comparable and they are both pretty low recoil. Both are very controllable on F/A.
The other benefit of the MP7 is you can carry it in a very compact package with the flush fit 20 round mags, or rock 30/40RD mags. The MP7 is perfect for carrying for bag carry(Khard Pack with Velocity Systems inserts).
I hear the MP7 really shines suppressed, just waiting for the can to be built.
In general, most people have moved away from the PDW concept in favor of things like the MK18 platform. A lot of departments that originally adopted PDWs have been clearing them out.
>>29528996
Are you a Class 3 dealer?
>>29529010
I work for one.
>>29529102
Must be nice, my dream is to own a gun store.. one day.
>>29529015
Cool, now show me something I haven't seen before
>>29528996
4327046127
ASK FOR JON FITZGERALD
>>29529015
So... More tripe?
>>29528996
>I hear the MP7 really shines suppressed,
Does it even have subsonic load?
>>29523008
Kind of a sidenote here...but: 1. anyone try/own the PS90? Thoughts? and 2. When will we ever see 9mm P90/PS90?
