is anyone else worried that the intrusion of safety culture into the armed forces will have a serious negative effect on their ability to fight an actual protracted conflict?
a century ago you could lose millions in the space of a few months, and this was thought of as being a necessary sacrifice. these days it's a catastrophe if a single soldier dies in training.
>>29511358
No.
The culture, at least in the infantry, is not of risk aversion, but of risk management.
Also get fucked. Why would i want to kill a private in the name of "good" training?
Once an actual conflict arises it gets thrown out the window, so, no.
>>29511358
>these days it's a catastrophe if a single soldier dies in training.
It is. There are people whose line of work is making sure these excercises and functions are safe for everyone involved and if someone dies during what's supposed to be safe and routine training, something has gone tits up and heads are going to roll.
>>29511379
Yep, you're exactly the kind of sissy that I'm talking about.
Please see yourself out.
>>29511381
>Once an actual conflict arises it gets thrown out the window
Too bad there's literally no evidence whatsoever to support this "argument". When was the last time we had an actual war?
In fact, when were we involved in ANY actual wars? Even the Civil War was a joke that was won largely by the French.
>>29511391
Exactly, which completely defeats the point of having an armed forces.
Not everyone gets a participation trophy in war.
>>29511400
>Exactly, which completely defeats the point of having an armed forces.
No it doesn't and you're a retard.
>>29511358
>a century ago you could lose millions in the space of a few months
Which gained said countries literally nothing. The Somme had more than 1 million casualties all said and done, and the results are listed as "inconclusive." Sacrifice != contribution to winning, like with Russians in WWII. Yeah a lot got killed but for every soldier killed that's another soldier that cannot contribute anymore to winning. If any general tried WWI type bullshit today they'd be cashiered if not shot.
>>29511413
>No it doesn't and you're a retard.
What a stunning rebuttal. I'm totally convinced now.
>>29511420
>Which gained said countries literally nothing.
Hahahaha, are you serious?
The end of WW2 was "literally nothing"?
>>29511438
>What a stunning rebuttal. I'm totally convinced now.
Well, it's kind of hard to form a proper rebuttal when you're not even given an actual argument.
>>29511449
Alright, you've had enough. Out. Out!
Get off of my board and do NOT come back.
>>29511394
>>29511400
Confirmed b8 thread.
Ever worn a uniform op? Hell, even boy scouts counts for this.
All training is designed for maximum throughput. The training is decidedly shit if somebody dies: that's a soldier that can't be used in a "real" fight.
Hell, the best training for a firefight is done without ammo with an adjudicator behind you going "nope, that squad attack was a soup sandwich. 3 of you are dead, including a team leader, and now mortars are being walked onto your position. Watcha gonna do SL?"
Are you retarded OP?
The reason we have less losses now is because we have gotten better at war (and have a more healthy population), not because we pussed out.
A modern soldier would probably beat the fuck out of a WWI soldier.
He would certainly fuck up a Civil War soldier.
>>29511438
Respond to the entire post or not at all you little bitch. Throwing waves of infantry at a problem until it goes away has been retarded since the invention of the machine gun, which is why it isn't done anymore hence the other guy calling you a retard. You are in fact retarded. I hope we get a new janitor to reduce shitposting, and hopefully remove /arg/ as well.
>>29511456
>Confirmed b8 thread.
Stopped reading right there.
>>29511459
>we have gotten better at war
Then why have we lost literally every single armed conflict for the past hundred years?
>>29511471
>Respond to the entire post or not at all you little bitch.
I did.
We spend a lot of money on soldiers. It costs 250000 to get a combat medic through basic. I think infantrymen still cost 150000. If a soldier dies, that money is expended. And for what? Not to kill the enemy, or take land, but because the training wasn't "hardcore" enough. "Hardcore" training doesn't do shit. Guys still broke down and panicked at Dday. Fuck, go back to 1993, Gothic serpent. Fucking rangers got so freaked out that they didn't want to return to the front, so freaked out the shot at Delta when they were clearing the objective. No training, no matter how many privates it kills will prepare them for their first fight. So getting them in top physical condition and willing to follow orders under STRESS is more important. Stress is key to modern training. I went through basic 3 years ago. They cut our food, our sleep, and played fuck fuck games with us. If the army gradually jumps up the stress level, we're better ready to handle the massive jump up in stress in combat.
>>29511358
There's a huge difference between sacrificing and wasting lives. This is a borderline edgelord post.
>>29511453
>my board
This level of bait is beyond human comprehension
>>29511481
>1916
I didn't realize we lost ww2
Or Korea
I didn't realize we lost Vietnam, not due to the incompetence of command, or a focus on killing gooks instead of holding territory, but because we didn't kill enough privates during basic training. You know they still did that in the 60s right?
I didn't realize we didn't fuck Panama up
I sure didn't realize we didn't steam roll Iraq twice
>>29511523
>They cut our food, our sleep, and played fuck fuck games with us.
Certainly that's not the kind of stress you'll find in combat, is it? I've never experience it, so I can't tell, but I have experienced lack of sleep, lack of food and being severely fucked with and to me it did nothing but make me tired and severely increased the stress I'd feel as an NCO when things went tits up, timelines were slamming into my face and I couldn't find any solutions to making it on time, so I just had to trudge through the shit.
I mean a grunt wouldn't get the similiar stress, would he?
>>29511481
>lost literally every single armed conflict for the past hundred years
>literally every single
>literally
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States
Scroll down to the 20th Century, I would really love to see you try to refute the sources.
In afghanistan losing a single soldier etc is huge news of course and sad. But in a war scenario i am pretty sure the military have companies that are pretty much designated cannon fodder. Expandable, that are meant to die so the other parts/battalions can stay safe/mount defenses for as long as possible. This makes sense no?
>>29511453
Are you a mod? If not get fucked.
>>29511546
>Korea
>Vietnam
>>29511559
>united states
The fuck are you going on about? I'm German you stupid shit.
>>29511481
>WW1
>WW2
>Korea (at least a draw)
>Not going to bring up 'Nam
>Grenada
>Panama
>1st Gulf War
>>29511547
You will sleep less in combat. During Fallujah, in 2 weeks some guys got less than 12 hours of sleep.
You will eat less in combat. We have a great supply chain that tries to make that not happen, becuase you NEED that energy to compensate for the lack of sleep, but shit happens.
What feels like fuck fuck games will happen. Last minute change of plans, SNCOs and Officers walking around like fucking dicks.
But to deal with the stess of being shot at, falling back on muscle memory is what matters. That's why we do the same damn training over and over and over again. I'll toss close to a combined 30 live and training grenades on grenade day. That way when my palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are shaking, I'll be able to arm a throw a grenade.
Mods please delete this incomprehensibly stupid bait thread.
>ihavenoideawhatimtalkingabout.fag
>>29511573
>I'm German
Well get a fucking brain Hans, that doesn't change the fact that your reading comprehension is shit.
>>29511575
>>29511580
try learning how to read >>29511573
typical americans thinking their country is literally the only one in existence
OP has a point. SJW and Sissy culture has permeated every facet of the military and its inappropriate for a competent fighting force.
You should not have people getting killed during training. You are needlessly losing resources and manpower.
However I have no doubt that we would have competent soldiers if we could simulate the combat environment totally, ie Live fire and simulated IED
>>29511576
Is there vomit on your sweater?
>>29511573
>I didn't read the post
We sure as fuck didn't lose Korea. There's still 2 Korea's
And we lost Vietnam. But go back and read why. It's not private Walter's fault because the drill sergeants didn't beat him enough. Which they did a lot in the 60's. It's because command was more interested in making kills than holding territory.
>Make post talking about losing millions in a few months
>Fatass retarded ameriboos think I'm talking about THEIR country
You faggots realize that you haven't even lost 1 million americans total, right? If you add up all of the soldiers you've lost in every single war and added them together it's about 200,000.
>>29511394
Wtf sort of drugs are you on? This is some next level shit.
>>29511591
>still babbling about america
I AM TALKING ABOUT THE GERMAN ARMED FORCES YOU STUPID FUCKING AMERICAN PIECE OF SHIT
How the hell is it that I can read and write English better than you can and it's my fourth language?
>>29511459
>and have a more healthy population
Bait
There were alot less fatties in America 70 years ago than there are now
Alot of soldiers back then were farmboys and bluecollar workers who were alot stronger than most men today
>>29511573
In >>29511481 you said
>Then why have we lost literally every single armed conflict for the past hundred years?
-In response to >>29511459, who was almost certainly referring to the United States.
It was entirely safe for me to assume you were also referring to the United States.
Get fucked europoor.
>>29511576
Experienced all of those things outside of combat. Can't imagine it being anywhere similiar to the stress in actual life and death battle.
>>29511589
Nope. Troops actually become less effective the more they're exposed to combat. Their second or third engagement is their most effective. Band of brothers display this well. They were hot shit in Belgium. They didn't do so well at Bastogne
>>29511592
>believe me, I am definitely not spewing stuff I just thought up.
>>29511605
you are quoting three separate people.
>>29511617
>>29511600
Okay, so it's even worse for you. Ignoring the fact that in the OP you didn't specify country, and you just pulled the muh Germany thing out of your ass when we proved that less deaths in training didn't reduce the effectiveness of the US military, you had fucking Nazis. You lost because you had fewer resources and were surrounded by the enemy. How would killing of more soldiers in training, which you had so few of you were using children by the end of the war, help you win ww2?
>>29511600
THEN WHY DIDN'T YOU FUCKING MENTION IN THE OP THAT YOU'RE GERMAN? The vast majority of browsers on /k/ are American and if you just use the term armed forces, we're going to assume you're talking about the American military. I have no idea why you chose not to be more specific.
>>29511600
So english, arabic, german.... Whats the fourth language?
>>29511636
He just trolling otherwise he would have mentioned German in OP.
We europeans know to do this on any board that doesnt have flags. You should explicitly state your country.
>>29511606
Battle is very very short these days. That stress is like the base line for your entire deployment. And lots of civilians havent experienced that, especially at the ages of 17-19.
As for inna fight, like I said, training all your skills so they become muscle memory
>>29511358
What ability? The military's whole strategy relies on winning a war rapidly through technological superiority.
Once the stocks of PGMs, stealth fighters and other weapons that cost far too long to produce run dry, that's it. There is no plan to fight a protracted conflict and there ia no ability to do it either.
>>29511633
>>29511636
>>29511637
>>29511643
You guys are getting trolled, you realize that right?
R-right?
>>29511379
>i want to kill a private in the name of "good" training
You are retarded.
