>Is the .40S&W still a viable caliber?
>Will its popularity/availability increase, or decrease, or stay the same in the next 10 years?
>>29505235
It is yes. There is nothing inherently wrong with the cartridge, just that 9mm is better in most respects
And while people are moving back to 9, so many people and organizations adopted it that it'll be popular for a long time yet
>>29505235
>9mm does everything it can with higher capacity
>it will go the way of .38Super
10mm
>but the ammo is too expensive!
GET A FUCKING PRESS YOU FUCKING KEK.
>>29505376
10mm fags are constantly pushing their bullshit round. Literally the thread is abotu .40 nothing about 10mm
It's one of those "why bother" cartridges. It's a shitty middle ground between 9mm and .45, which means it has all of the weaknesses of both and none of the positives of either
Ruger has stated that they won't be making any newer models in the cartridge.
It's basically a niche caliber for niggers and mall ninjas
There's really no reason to buy a gun in this caliber, unless you get it really cheap.
>>29505454
I'm not defending the caliber or anything, but ruger is hardly a company to set the standard on what caliber to use.
>>29505411
Thread is about .40 being viable while 10mm exists, thereby answering the question. Sounds like you own a few too many guns chambers in .40 short&weak. Or maybe it's the bitch-wrists.
>>29505469
No, but it goes to show that many consider it to be useless. FBI also recently switched away from it.
The greatest handgun ever designed was designed around .40.
>USP
>>29505269
>better in most respects
Capacity is hardly "most". .40S&W gets shit on because it's not better enough than 9mm. Only +p 9mm is similar to .40S&W in muzzle energy and penetration.
i see it alot at the range
>>29505454
min caliber for making Major in USPA Limited or IPSC Standard.
shooting Minor competitively with a 9mm has been tried many times. and it hasn't worked out yet.
>>29505591
Explain what you are saying. I am completely lost but it sounds interesting.
>>29505553
Because LEOs can't handle a little extra recoil (read female agents).
If you are not
>buyinging a police trade in usp 40 or p229
>shooting competition
>being forced to use .40 because you're in some shitty police department and have no other choice
>in the coast guard
And you use .40, you're doing it all absolutely wrong.
>>29505624
No, they switched from 10mm to .40 due to females.
>>29505615
Not that guy, but he's talking about certain types of competitive pistol shooting. .40 S&W actually makes sense in a few of these when it comes to getting into different competitive tiers within the sport.
>>29505669
But how? Like is it just the way the rules are set up? Or is it something inherently better about the actual .40s&w?
>>29505469
>but ruger is hardly a company to set the standard on what caliber to use.
They're a very good indicator of what trends the market is going into considering they're one of the US's biggest manufacturers.
>>29505565
And it's even better in 9mm because it being overbuilt for the cartridge is what makes it so ridiculously durable.
>>29505235
As more people learn the truth about handgun calibers, they're moving away from .40
Look at the price of anything chambered in .40 vs the same gun in 9mm. Its almost always significantly cheaper (online prices anyway, I don't shop gun stores). Hell the other day I was pricing an FNS-9 and the best price I could find was 455 after military discount. Over on Palmetto state's website they're selling the FNS-40 brand new with night sights for 365. They can't seem to give me away
>>29505710
ruger makes a quality product
>not buying a ruger becuz muh sealz
>not buying a ruger because of low price
ishygddt
>>29505776
get the FNX bruv, I have both and the FNS collects dust.
>>29505687
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Practical_Shooting_Confederation#Major_and_Minor
>>29505802
I would be all about it if it had a decocker instead of a safety
>>29505669
>>29505687
yeah i want to know as well.
the only thing i like about .40 is the truncated cone looks cool. supposedly it's better for shooting glass vs round nose but i suspect that's more fudd lore than actual physics.
>>29505269
>just that 9mm is better in most respects
Respects in which 9mm is better:
-capacity (1 or 2 rounds, depending on the gun)
Respects in which .40 is better:
-expansion
-wound cavity size, depth and severity
-barrier penetration
-penetration when shooting large wild animals
>>29505363
>9mm does everything [.40] can with higher capacity
Now that's just a blatant lie.
>>29505454
>It's a shitty middle ground between 9mm and .45, which means it has all of the weaknesses of both and none of the positives of either
Attempt to defend your indefensible statement.
Weaknesses of 9mm: light projectile, smallest expanded projectile diameter, poor barrier penetration
Weaknesses of .45: worst capacity, heavy projectile but relatively slow moving means relatively low muzzle energy
.40 has all those weaknesses? I don't think so, fag.
>Ruger has stated that they won't be making any newer models in the cartridge.
The likely real answer as to why this is, is that Ruger can't build their semi-auto pistols well enough to hold up sufficiently to firing high pressure cartridges.
>>29505553
Thousands of police departments across the country have no plans to stop using it. The FBI is a federal law enforcement organization, but they don't hold a candle to all the local PDs added together. The caliber that the FBI uses is irrelevant to the viability of the other calibers.
>>29505638
Why? I'd love to hear your independently-derived reasoning that wasn't just parroted from /k/ or James Yeager's youtube channel.
>>29505710
So when Ruger produces guns chambered in .237 magnum, .480 Ruger, .454 Casull, .41 magnum - the list goes on - does that mean that they are accurately predicting the direction of where the market is headed?
>>29505776
>the truth about handgun calibers
Do enlighten us.
>Over on Palmetto state's website they're selling the FNS-40 brand new with night sights for 365.
That's because FN's new direction for the FNS is one gun with a 9-40 conversion barrel.
>>29505842
The Safety acts as a decocker.
>>29505845
I actually just bought some 9mm thats shaped like that
>>29505857
I own a gun store, and I can promise you .40's are ran on sale ALL THE FUCKING TIME. The other day VP40's and Glock 27 were both on sale at Davidsons. HK and Glock NEVER run sales. .40 is becoming obsolete.
>>29505872
what you get, some fiocchi?
>>29505910
American Eagle
>>29505897
>I own a gun store
I totally believe you.
>and I can promise you .40's are ran on sale ALL THE FUCKING TIME.
You must be really new to guns because that's been the case for YEARS. It doesn't mean that the caliber isn't viable anymore. It just means that more people prefer 9mm. That's OK; there's no reason why two or more calibers can't exist in the market at the same time.
>>29505857
I'm not going to go do your research for you. There's more information out there on the Internet than you could sift through if you stayed up all night.
And that .40 and 9mm combo pack? Yeah, the MSRP is $1400. Even at the real world price (figure 80% of that) I can just buy two complete guns.
>>29505570
No, it gets shit on because 9mm works just as well but has more rounds while .45 has enough energy, in most people's minds anyway, to justify the lower capacity.
>>29505937
>I'm not going to go do your research for you.
Translation: "I am incapable of rebutting any of your arguments."
>>29505897
You do not own a gun store. Both VP9's and VP40's have been on sale since they were released. P2000's in all calibers have been on sale so hard for the past few years that HK had to lower the MSRP by about $300, and they still sell for $100 less than that, street price. Glocks go on sale too, just not to the same extent, and not in as many calibers.
>>29505845
see
>>29505824
tl;dr: IPSC Standard level rules allow .40 S&W in Major competition whereas 9mm is only for Minor level; you get more points for if you use a Major caliber pistol than a Minor caliber one when it comes time to final scoring.
When it comes to winning a trophy, nothing else matters to some people.
>>29505872
Yeah I know but it still has a safety. Also I finger fucked one and if you go to flip the safety off and press too hard (you know, like in a high stress situation) it decocks the gun and now you have a double action pull where you were expecting sing action. If I go hammer fired polymer 9mm it'll be the CZ P-07. It comes with a switchable safety and decocker so I can run it however I want.
>>29505935
>Here you can see both Glock and HK running a sale on .40's
HK has no other caliber handguns on sale and Glock only has a sale on .45GAP. Get your head out of your ass, .40 is dying.
>>29505992
>not addressing what I said
>thinking I won't notice
>>29505969
>I'm not going to go do your research for you.
Translation: I literally cannot be bothered to go track down ballistics tests and 3 letter agency documents to convince an anonymous neckbeard on the internet.
Side note, what's up with all the RV captchas?
>>29505411
.40sw exists by being a 10mm for women and womanly men
>>29505857
>does that mean that they are accurately predicting the direction of where the market is headed?
From a production standpoint, dealing with odd chamberings in bolt guns and revolvers is significantly easier than dealing with them in semi-autos. They see a market for those chamberings so they produce weapons in them. They don't see a future for .40 so they aren't making guns in them, and that mentality is only reflecting what's currently happening in the market. They aren't setting the trend or predicting anything, they're just going where the market is.
>Respects in which .40 is better:
And of all those things you listed 10mm is significantly better why offering the same capacity as well as being able to load it lighter if you don't want to deal with the side effects of using such a powerful cartridge.
>>29506028
I've done the research, anon. If you take exception with one of my claims, then you are free to make your rebuttal. What you are not free to do is ignore my entire post and claim that I "need to do more research."
>>29506026
It literally meas they cant move them so they drop the price. There is a reason why Glock 19's are never on sale and its because they will sale at whatever the normal price is. Do you really not understand economics?
>>29506044
>10mm is significantly better
You can't buy most common handguns in 10mm. Glock is pretty much the only maker of modern pistols that supports it. Why even mention it in a conversation about service calibers?
>>29506048
>thinks he knows about economics
>"lower prices mean less(!) demand"
No, fuddy mcfuddstein, that's not what it means when the price on one model is lower than the price on another model.
>>29506071
>Why even mention it in a conversation about service calibers?
Because raw ballistic performance isn't the only thing that matters when choosing a handgun chambering. Because despite 10mm's absolute superiority in performance over the .40 it is still the less popular caliber. That's the same reason why the .40 is losing market share and 9mm is only dominating harder than it ever has before.
>>29506096
>guys I know we can sale these guns at X price
>but I think we should lower it by 5% since it cost less to make!!
Or are you just saying they are cheaper in general, which isnt true. If anything .40 would cost more because of its higher pressure.
>>29505857
I like you.
>>29506048
P40HST1 is the only reason .40 is on a downfall. with the 124gr gold dots, .40 still had them beat by .2" in expansion. Now HST's have evened the field where they are within 1/10th of an inch of each other, even up to .45
Still doesnt change the fact there is no such thing as LOLonly.40 or LOLonly.45ACP
however, you will always hear about "Suspect shot 9 times by Lt in charge of operation, turns out to be undercover cop; recovers fully within weeks"
Using the FBI transition away from .40 back to 9mm as actual evidence that 9mm is better is like trying to say the F35 is the best thing that ever happened to the national deficit.
>>29506129
>If anything .40 would cost more because of its higher pressure.
It SHOULD cost more, but guns in .40 aren't going for more because the demand is lower than their 9mm counterparts. Actual production cost doesn't mean much, companies charge what the market will bare. That's why you get:
>"lower prices mean less(!) demand"
>>29506124
>Because raw ballistic performance isn't the only thing that matters when choosing a handgun chambering.
What are the factors you think are equally or more important, then? Because last I checked, when you look at price, there's only about $1-2 difference per box between 9mm and .40, but about a $20 difference, per box, between either of those and 10mm. Like I said, it's not even comparable or worth mentioning in a conversation about service pistols. You need to understand that this conversation is not about calibers. It's about guns. There are no options for a service pistol chambered for 10mm.
>>29506129
>we can sale these guns
>sale these guns
>sale
>meant to write "sell"
I was about to tell you to go back to economics class, but I may be giving you too much credit. Go back to grammar school, kiddo.
Guns of approximately the same design in 9mm likely cost the same to make as guns in that design chambered for .40, but because of HIGHER demand for the .40 caliber gun, they are able to be sold for a LOWER price. It's the principle of supply and demand, and the reason why 9mm ammo costs less than .32 caliber ammo and .25 caliber ammo, which both use less raw materials.
>>29506179
Which means .40's arent selling as well as 9mm which is all I was trying to prove by posting >>29505992 pic.
>>29506184
Did this nigger really just say there is a higher demand for .40 than 9mm?
>>29506206
If you understand basic economics, then you have to agree with me.
>>29506206
Not him, but this isn't the EU, where we are limited to handgun calibers of .22 and 9mm only.
.40 is actually a very common and proven round. It is used by more than a majority of LE entities, and will continue to be around for quite a while, even if the paperpushers and numbercrunchers over at the FBI thinks 9mm is 'gud nuf'.
>>29506213
http://www.thedailysheeple.com/can-you-guess-which-firearm-calibers-are-the-most-popular_052015
For some reason 9mm ammo out sales .40 like fuck. I guess all these .40 owners just dont buy ammo for their pistols.
>>29506188
You're an idiot, that picture proves nothing.
Depends on the economy. If Trump gets elected then we'll go towards 10mm and I'm totally fine with this.
>>29506184
>What are the factors you think are equally or more important, then?
The incremental ballistics performance advantage .40 has over 9mm isn't worth the cost, the recoil, the weight, the capacity, the increased stress on the firearm. those $1-2 per box might not mean much to you as an individual, but when you're a government organization or military force who has to provide ammunition for thousands of individuals that adds up very quickly. The increased wear due to the higher pressure loadings means you need to spend more on parts and maintenance.
The point is superiority in ballistics performance is made insignificant by the other factors that must be considered when procuring a firearm, that if ballistic performance was the only thing that mattered then 10mm would be more popular than .40, and .40 would be more popular than 9mm, which is clearly not the case.
>>29506238
or most hoarding fudds have a natural tendency to buy 9mm's because "da military uses it"
>>29506282
>the increased stress on the firearm.
why do stupid people always quote this??? These same fuckers are the ones who keep telling lies about "OMG Carbine gas on a 16" riful?!!? you gonna get broken bolts like crazy!"
>>29506313
Shooting +P ammo is known to decrease the life of a pistol.
>>29506313
>why do stupid people always quote this???
Higher pressures mean more stress, it's that simple. It won't mean much to a civilian shooter that's only going to put ~2000 rounds most through their pistol, but for military procurement that's an actual issue when their firearms are expected to be in service for at least 20 years. You can compensate for this by simply making a stronger handgun, but then you're increasing size and weight as well as production cost.
The alternative is using lower pressure loads of .40 but then at that point you might as well just be using 9mm.
>>29506338
>Shooting +P ammo is known to decrease the life of a pistol.
>+P
>in a .40
way to prove to us all just how much you really know about what attempting to talk about.
>>29506282
I carry a g22, am familiar with how snappy it is, am familiar with its ballistics at different ranges, and I like the more authoritative report compared to 9mm. These reasons make .40 my caliber of choice. The decreased capacity compared to 9mm serves as a "make em count" type reminder. I also carry two mags so boohoo capacity. I'm not gonna be Rambo anytime soon. If I need more firepower ill just fight to my trunk and get the m70.
>>29506344
Highest pressure 9mm (not inc subgun ammo) is ~38k PSI. Highest pressure allowed for .40 is something like 39.5k
average 9mm is 36k. average .40 is 38k.
we have had this thread numbers of times. There is no noticeable difference between the lifespans of 9mm pistols vs .40 pistols. Each will get over 150-200k rounds each. In that time, both guns will have other parts break prior to the barrel, slide, and frame.
>>29506380
congrats ;^)
>>29506282
>incremental ballistics performance advantage .40 has over 9mm
There's about a 50% increase in momentum from 9mm to .40 caliber. There are implications for uses for .40 that you can't use 9mm for. I know you want to try to detract from .40 caliber's capabilities by using words like "incremental," but the truth is that you are only coming off as desperate here.
> those $1-2 per box might not mean much to you as an individual, but when you're a government organization or military force who has to provide ammunition for thousands of individuals that adds up very quickly.
This is somewhat of a good point, until you realize that the federal government is notorious for wasting money - all federal LE agencies have huge stockpiles of ammo - and local PD's are notorious for penny-pinching with their ammunition budgets, which they'd likely do with any caliber.
>The increased wear due to the higher pressure loadings means you need to spend more on parts and maintenance.
This really isn't a strong argument. Parts breakage happens with guns in every caliber, and it's so rare that most normal shooters can never expect to experience significant hardship as a result of shooting .40 caliber instead of 9mm.
>>29505857
How is it possible for someone to be this stupid
>>29506444
Great counter-argument. You sure convinced me!
>>29506282
That's the best argument I've heard yet for institutional end-users to stick with the 9mm. 10/10, would calmly reflect and analyse again.
>>29506044
>>29506124
If 10mm is still overall superior to .40, why did most law enforcement agencies switch to .40 if 10mm "Lite" was still better?
>>29506469
10mm lite is .40
>>29506469
Women
>>29506469
Because you could cram in 2-3 more rounds in .40 S&W than a 10mm.
>>29506480
Historically, as the tale goes, the SAAMI specs of 10mm were changed during the FBI development of .40S&W, such that in the old days, 10mm used to be loaded much hotter, but they changed it in an attempt to make the caliber more shootable.
Let's play Spot the Squid: >>29506504
>>29506418
>There's about a 50% increase in momentum from 9mm to .40 caliber.
Try harder. Momentum is a linear function, not logarithmic.
>>29506163
Do I need to post the article about the didndo that was shot 30 someodd times with a 45 before stopping.
>>29505235
>>Is the .40S&W still a viable caliber?
Yes
>>Will its popularity/availability increase, or decrease, or stay the same in the next 10 years?
I'd say decrease. A lot of police departments are switching back to 9mm for various reasons, but you know how history is. What's in style today is out of style tomorrow... then back in style, etc.
>>29506469
Read the second post.
>>29506504
Both rounds are the same diameter, ammunition length effects the size of the grip from front to back but would not effect the capacity (assuming magazines are the same length).
So you could make the gun a little smaller and easier to grip for people with smaller hands but the capacity for magazines of the same length would always be the same.
>>29506546
You didn't even do the math yourself, so don't parrot words you clearly don't understand in an attempt to put down people who are smarter than you.
With the velocities of both calibers about the same, at ~1100 fps, and the 180 grain .40 caliber projectile weighing approximately 45-56% more than the 115-124 grain 9mm projectile, the linear function of momentum would reflect a 45-56% increase.
Faggot.
>>29506593
>but would not effect the capacity
Case in point, Glock 20 vs Glock 22.
>>29505235
It's absolutely viable. That being said I do see its popularity shrinking. My department switched from 180 grain HST to 175 grain Critical Duty, and there's now talk of switching to 9mm. We've had serious issues with reliable barrier penetration and expansion with the HST 180 grain out of our Glock 22's, somewhere in the ballpark of 50% if I had to throw a number out. 9mm has shown to have pretty darn good barrier penetration and expansion, especially the 124 grain HST. Unfortunately because this data isn't really in the scope of a LE agency's investigation, it's hard to get more accurate figures. That being said, .40, 9mm, and .45 ACP are all good calibers with good loads available, but each has their strengths and weaknesses.
>>29506610
Your assumption on velocity is the problem, a 115 grain projectile isn't going to be moving at 1100 FPS out of the muzzle.
>>29506447
Your entire "argument" was ad homs, shit posting, and memes
How am I supposed to counter argue that? Rare pepes and calling you a cuck?
>>29506644
>We've had serious issues with reliable barrier penetration and expansion with the HST 180 grain
you mean they would penetrate the barrier and then not expand? or expand at the barrier and not penetrate? What barrier? Plywood or sheetmetal?
>>29506667
BTFO
>>29505235
There's better options.
That doesn't mean it's about to die out. Plenty of people like the round, and I think that's enough to keep it going for awhile.
>>29506667
A good first step would be to look up what "ad hominem" means. You clearly don't understand the term. Then put on your reading glasses and re-read my first post to the thread, this time for comprehension. :^)
>>29506644
>switching from .40 to 9mm to get better barrier penetration
Just goes to show that your department is retarded.
>>29506661
The difference in velocity that you're talking about is pretty low, only about 18% difference, which is mostly off-set by the low mass of the 115 grain projectile. Like I said, you clearly haven't done the math yourself, so stop trying to talk like you somehow know what you're talking about.
>>29506686
Please don't samefag.
>9mm +P has nearly identical muzzle energy to .40S&W
>therefore making 9mm the better cartridge
This doesn't make any goddamn sense.
AT BEST 9mm is nearly as good as .40S&W. Typical 9mm loads will be outperformed by typical .40S&W loads in every test.
Next you'll start telling me that there's such thing as too much penetration with expanding bullets.
>>29506680
Pretty much all around. We had a bank robbery result in shooting an armed suspect through the shoulder that failed to penetrate into the torso a few years ago.
Had an officer shoot a knife wielding suspect several years ago, not sure how many rounds fired but to my understanding it was more than 5 rounds less than 10 before the suspect dropped, though I won't really chalk that up to the ammo being deficient, too many variables. Guy did eventually drop so I suppose this can be thrown in the win category.
Had an officer shoot a suspect once in the torso and the guy dropped, dead right there. Win category.
Had an officer shoot a dog in the face point blank
>inb4 ATF meme
And the dog ran off, still alive to this day.
Had an officer shoot a suspect through the rear windshield of a car multiple GSW's, led cops on a pursuit and survived with no permanent injuries.
I shot someone through a windshield and it went thru and thru torso (probably deformed essentially into a ball round upon hitting the windshield), second shot stopped against his spine. Not sure if the 2nd expanded. He may have been shot 1 or 2 more times but that was never confirmed.
So basically it's just "hit or miss". To my understanding agencies using 9mm defensive loads and .357 sig have had much better performance against barriers and bone.
Couple nearby agencies have had issues with penetrating car doors with multiple shots.
Essentially, handguns suck, rifles are where it's at.
>>29506729
Actually not a samefag
I know it's impossible for you to comprehend that more than one person thinks you're fucking retarded, but try to open your mind to how fucking retarded you actually are
>>29506716
>Calling actual police departments retarded
>Spends the entire thread over stating irrelevant differences between 9mm and .40 when they are in his favor and understating them when they are not in his favor
Anon, it's time for you to stop posting.
We're going to be looking back in 20 years and laughing about how stupid .40 owners were after the cartridge is completely discontinued.
>>29506851
>Actually not a samefag
I totally believe you.
TLDR: 40 short and weak fags on suicide watch
>>29506851
Please enlighten us as to which aspects of the difference between 9mm and .40S&W are being understated?
>>29506864
I thought you were serious for a minute
You're just baiting
2/10 for making me reply twice
ebin maymays newfriend dosu dosu mudflips
>>29505857
>Now that's just a blatant lie.
The FBI would disagree with you.
>>29506716
>Like I said, you clearly haven't done the math yourself
I just took the time to do so.
Using BBTIs charts for .40 and 9mm and using Corbon's DPX out of a 4" barrel as an example, you end up with the .40 at p=3.417 and 9mm at 2.873. So .40 has ~20% more momentum than an equivalent 9mm round, not 50%.
>>29506830
Now thats what I call some solid fuckin info.
looks like even 16-18" of penetration into ballistics gel is insufficient. Time to go back to FMJ's and the biggest diameter hole possible.
>>29506890
You're samefagging your shitty post about how I'm using "ad homs" when I talk about things like barrier penetration, expanded bullet diameter, momentum, and yet *I'm* the one who's baiting. You just jumped the shark, buddy.
>>29506897
No, they wouldn't. What they might say is that even though 9mm isn't as good as .40 caliber ballistically, it's still "good enough" of a compromise for them because they prioritize magazine capacity.
>>29506903
You didn't do your math right, then. Show your work.
>>29505975
the speed advantage of 9mm isn't worth the scoring disadvantage for a non-A zone hit. the way the rules work out, in order to truly be competitive you have to shoot .40 S&W.
>>29506923
>You didn't do your math right, then. Show your work.
You didn't do your math right, show your work.
>>29505363
Good to know it'll stay relevant in competition, have a cult following,be loved by Mexican,continue to be offered by specialty manufacturers getting the most out of it and remain available at my local Walmart and academy for another 80 years
>>29506940
Nice try, but I already did. It just didn't register for you because you lack reading comprehension. Same way you think my evidence-based arguments are "ad hom." There's a reason why you are not being taken seriously in this thread, and probably in life as well.
>>29506921
Well .45fmj will penetrate 20 someodd inches.
>>29506923
1) That wasn't a samefag
2) You're also having an "argument" with a police officer >>29506897 and calling him retarded, but his own experience and FBI data directly proves you wrong.
The ballistic differences between 9mm and .40 are so irrelevant in real world scenarios that there is no reason not to prioritize capacity
3) You're still shitposting and won't address anything directly
>>29506944
even .38 Super is being phased out in favor of 9mm Major in Open class guns.
>>29506960
Again your math is clearly wrong or based on false methodology. You either failed to account for barrel length or are deliberately using incorrect velocities to support your argument.
>>29506976
>still thinking that that you can get away with samefagging
Lol, nope. Strike one.
>implying a high school graduate who went and became a professional thug is automatically some kind of expert on firearm ballistics
Strike two.
>still giving no details for your assertions and thinking that I'm not going to call you out for it, like always
Strike three. You're OUT!
Bratty manchild weeaboo kills another decent thread
>>29507000
Still memeposting
Also, this wasn't me>>29506960, so that makes at least three different people now.
You should stop before you really go full retard
>>29507015
>can't refute any of his points
>better insult him and hope that people buy that as my excuse why I don't agree
Now this is an ad hominem.
>>29507018
You are totally off the rails. We both know which posts you samefagged. Don't play cute and quote my posts, faggot.
>>29507033
Refute what? You've been acting like a spoiled child and offering nothing of value to the thread since you started posting in it from what I can tell. This is my second post.
>>29507033
>>29507044
God damn you are fucking retarded
Half the posts you are accusing me of samefagging are not mine, but you keep doing this because it's all you have
>>29506129
>higher pressure
Have you actually looked at handgun pressure limits for the big 3 pistol cartridges?
>>29507088
You only samefagged in two posts. We both know that. Stop trying to act like I'm accusing you of anything else.
>>29507074
Got any ballistics tests to back that up? Every test I've seen shows the .40 offers no significant penetration or expansion difference versus 9mm.
>>29507113
Post them, then.
>>29507104
Literally was not a same fag retard
Two other people are calling you an idiot
Accept the fact that you are an idiot
>>29507134
>make a retarded post accusing me of "ad homs" even though I haven't made an ad hominem in the thread
>make a second retarded post saying that you "BTFO" me
A person would have to be mentally handicapped to not spot your pathetic samefag attempt.
>>29507137
>the insecurity of the 9mm fags is showing big time in this thread..
>complaining about people discussing the shortcomings of a caliber in a thread specifically about the virtues of a handgun round in comparison to its contemporaries
>>29507113
Protip: hollow points in all service calibers are DESIGNED to penetrate only to a specific depth. You don't actually believe that all the extra momentum from .40 caliber doesn't cause any extra damage as compared to 9mm, do you? You're so fucking off-base, it has to be a joke.
>>29505857
>The likely real answer as to why this is, is that Ruger can't build their semi-auto pistols well enough to hold up sufficiently to firing high pressure cartridges.
Which is why there've been so many complaints about Rugers chambered in .40, right? You fucking hack.
>>29507125
>Case Closed: FBI Says 9mm Is The Best Pistol Round
>http://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/guns/case-closed-fbi-says-9mm-is-the-best-pistol-round/
>http://www.policemag.com/channel/weapons/news/2015/11/02/fbi-going-back-to-9mm-ammunition.aspx
>The new 9mm round —the 147-grain Speer Gold Dot G2 — is significantly more effective than what FBI agents carried into the field in 1986. According to Cook, the bullet has been rigorously tested and has received high marks in the FBI’s most important category for bullet selection: penetration.
Cook says that the lighter the bullet, the faster the gun can “drive” the round into the target. For the FBI, that translates into 12 to 18 inches of penetration into the human body. The 9mm’s weight, Cook added, also increases an agent’s accuracy in a gunfight, according to the findings of a 2014 FBI report that was leaked online last year.
>There is little to no noticeable difference in the wound tracks between premium line law Auto enforcement projectiles from 9mm Luger through the .45 Auto
>The majority of FBI shooters are both FASTER in shot strings fired and more ACCURATE with shooting a 9mm Luger vs shooting a .40 S&W (similar sized weapons)
>9mm Luger now offers select projectiles which are, under identical testing conditions, I outperforming most of the premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI
>9mm Luger offers higher magazine capacities, less recoil, lower cost (both in ammunition and wear on the weapons) and higher functional reliability rates (in FBI weapons)
http://soldiersystems.net/2014/09/25/fbi-9mm-justification-fbi-training-division/
Before you attack the sources, cause we know you will, you can literally Google it and get it directly off the FBI's own site
>>29507200
I've read a ton of complaints about Ruger semi-autos. It's widely known that their guns have lots of problems.
>>29506979
Yep, after decades of use. Thus the whole "way of the .38super" bit.
>>29507156
You don't actually understand what an ad hom is, do you? Because I have used it correctly every time
I don't expect much from a retarded weeb NEET that defends fortays
>>29507243
Find a single instance when I made an ad hominem, then. Quote it. Otherwise, FUCK OFF.
>>29507229
I was participated in a orgy with bill Murray, Christian Slater and lucey lui at carrot tops house while on peyote.
I have no source or proof of that statement. Hopefully you have sources for your claims
>>29507226
>147gr Speer Gold Dot 9mm: avg 16.1" pen and avg expansion of .42"
>180gr Winchester Defender .40S&W: avg 16.5" pen and avg expansion of .71"
>180gr Federal HST .40S&W: avg 18.5" pen and avg expansion of .72"
>165gr Hornady Critical Defense .40S&W: avg 16.6" pen and avg expansion of .60"
>180gr Remington Ultimate Defense .40S&W: avg 15.5" pen and avg expansion of .79"
>outperforming
>>29507226
>Cook says that the lighter the bullet, the faster the gun can “drive” the round into the target. For the FBI, that translates into 12 to 18 inches of penetration into the human body
I don't understand how this could be true. Heavier bullets should be penetrating farther than lighter bullets because of increased momentum. The claim also contradicts pretty much all evidence that I've seen about hollow point penetration across calibers.
>The 9mm’s weight, Cook added, also increases an agent’s accuracy in a gunfight, according to the findings of a 2014 FBI report that was leaked online last year.
This is a ridiculous claim. Caliber does not have an affect on accuracy, but lack of training can certainly exacerbate a police officer's flinch reflex when working with larger calibers.
>There is little to no noticeable difference in the wound tracks between premium line law Auto enforcement projectiles from 9mm Luger through the .45 Auto
I don't believe this. Sorry, but if you're not finding a difference in the wound channels between different calibers, then you're not measuring precisely enough.
>The majority of FBI shooters are both FASTER in shot strings fired and more ACCURATE with shooting a 9mm Luger vs shooting a .40 S&W (similar sized weapons)
Believable, but it's all a compromise. Either you have barrier penetration or you have faster follow up shots. With enough training, you can have both, but you don't mention it.
>>9mm Luger now offers select projectiles which are, under identical testing conditions, I outperforming most of the premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI
I don't believe this either. Implement the same technology into the other calibers and expansion is obviously going to exceed the 9mm results.
>>9mm Luger offers higher magazine capacities, less recoil, lower cost (both in ammunition and wear on the weapons) and higher functional reliability rates (in FBI weapons)
We all already knew this. It's called compromise.
>>29507312
Yes the tests found that they all preformed the same despite that.
>>29507286
Here's the barrel of an LCP Custom that I bought a couple weeks ago, which came pre-pitted from the factory. The company has quality control problems, OK?
>>29506923
>>29506923
I don't have any input on service handgun calibers, but that is absolutely NOT what jumping the shark is about.
>>29507330
So you just going to say the tests are shit and offer no test to the contrary.
>>29507342
How do you define "performance," then? Because clearly you are working with a definition that's different from most other people in this thread are using.
>>29507363
Penetration and wound cavity.
>>29507351
HAH, I remember your thread.... How did that ever go? They send you a new gun?
>>29507000
Ah, so the police are evil criminal retards, gotcha. Think you could start tripping? I'd love to filter you.
>>29507330
>Heavier bullets should be penetrating farther than lighter bullets because of increased momentum.
Penetration is also dependent on the initial velocity the bullet is traveling at when it hits the target. Momentum is simply an objects ability to resit change in velocity, if that initial velocity is high enough then it can make up for the difference in momentum once the round interacts with a target.
>>29507351
Can you clean it first I cant see any pitting through the carbon.
>>29507370
And you're measuring these things with a yard stick?
>>29507363
FBI defines performance as "(Price per round / Ability to put a hole in paper while) / wimmin not complaining about mascara flakes going in eyes or sore hands"
higher the number, the more performance it has.
>>29507372
They sent a new barrel with a polished feed ramp, as well as a padded mailer with postage on it to return the old barrel. The new barrel arrived in less than a week, and the people at Ruger were very nice and prompt with communication.
>>29507379
It's a clean barrel, anon. I spent over an hour alternately soaking it and reaming it. Those are chatter marks from dull tooling.
>>29507373
I didn't say that. All I said is that your appeal to authority has no basis in factual reality.
>>29507370
>>29507416
>They sent a new barrel with a polished feed ramp
is that what you asked for? Didn't I tell you to just ask for a return label and send the whole thing in???
>>29507374
>Penetration is also dependent on the initial velocity the bullet is traveling at when it hits the target.
9mm and .40 caliber have approximately the same momentum, but different projectile weights, broski. It's an easy comparison.
>>29507422
I didn't appeal to anything, I just think anyone who categorizes leo's as "high school graduates who became professional thugs" or whatever you said are retarded as Hell and probably stroking their prostates to the idea of making America "Feel the Bern".
>>29507424
>>29507416
ok thought it looked like carbon build up
>>29507424
The .40 caliber wound channels look like ribbons, whereas the 9mm wound channels look like knotted twine.
inb4 desperate disciples of 9mm post
>"but they are the same"
>>29507448
>>29505665
Thats why they also switched to 9mm from .40.
>>29507462
Want to post the other 9mm tests to match those multiple 40 tests or are you saying they only tested 5 rounds of 9 but 15 of 40.
>>29507432
The barrel was the only part affected. I don't think I suggested it, but it was an acceptable solution for me. It's not like Ruger barrels are serialized or require any special fitting. The part just dropped right in.
>>29507449
It drove me crazy trying to clean it further after I'd gotten all the carbon out.
>>29507446
>I didn't appeal to anything
Yes, you did. You implied that I, being a lowly civilian, could never hope to fully engage an LEO intellectually about a subject such as this. I'll quote where you did this:
>>29506976
>You're also having an "argument" with a police officer
Note the sarcastic quotation marks.
>>29507490
The post I responded to specified 147 speer gold dot 9mm. I'll post other 9 results in a moment.
>>29507492
Damn that would drive me crazy also.
>>29507519
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUx1aIb2cWs
>>29507351
So a sample one for one of the top 3 manufacturers in the US. At least this is a personal account but every company large enough with enough production has fuck ups. And here I was think I was gonna see something specifically showing SR40 problems
>>29507536
What I've noticed most from these tests is that Federal makes some damn good ammo.
>>29507555
>>29507568
>>29507568
HAHAHA still makes me laugh.
>>29507513
That wasn't me shitlord, I'm just asking for the chance to filter you.
>>29507582
>>29507243
>>29507268
The silence is deafening.
>>29507582
So far it seems to say to stay away from hydra shocks and hornady more than anything else.
>>29507587
>stepping into someone else's conversation without explaining that you are a new person
>thinking that you can get away with ignoring the previous points made by the side of the conversation that you're assuming
>>29507455
In ballistics gel that is representative of the temporary wound cavity. It is not significant to actual performance in handgun calibers.
>>29507568
Man I was reading the comments section of shooting the bulls RIP test. Holy Shit the amount of stupid in there was painful but at least I got to see a "doctor" get BTFO after claiming to have worked on people injured by overpenetration
>>29507587
I got a better idea.... How bouts you just fuck rite back off to where you came from, so you can filter us all?
>fuckin tumblrina
>>29507605
Full results are here:
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
You can click the brands to pull up the gel photos. I was mostly posting ones that were close to FBI standard (and also the RIP), since things that don't expand might as well just be FMJ.
>>29507622
Get away with? Nigga are you going to put bad marks on my report card? I'll step into any conversation on this board I fucking feel like, and you made a clown-ass statement. "Hurrr cops are high school grads turned pro thugs". That statement is retarded regardless of the context and you are retarded regardless of the context.
>>29507623
Jesus. There's just no winning with you people, is there?
>the ballistics gel is an accurate representation about what the bullet will do in a human body
when it suits you
>the ballistics gen is not an accurate representation about what the bullet will do in a human body
when it suits you
How about this? You're not even correct in terming those cavities "temporary wound cavities." What you're seeing after the test is over are permanent cavities. The temporary ones only open up as the bullet is moving through the gel, and disappear once it stops.
>>29507644
How about you filter my jizz through my socks and gargle with it.
>rite
Like you're a black mage or something, Jesus Christ.
>>29507658
Now we see what happens when you do >>29507622 without understanding the consequences for your actions.
>>29507649
>Remington HTP
>for when you need to kill the world's fattest man, but can't be arsed to wait for him to have a heart attack
>>29507623
>In ballistics gel that is representative of the temporary wound cavity. It is not significant
nigger what the fuck are you saying? Those non-transparent parts are channels that were permanently damaged. If a blood vessel ran thru any of those translucent parts, it would of been ruptured. You dont see the "temporary cavity" in a still photo of the block after-the-fact.
and to chime in on temp cavity - a bigger temp cavity in the ribcage can put the brain of the target into involuntary shock, and basically drop them, even if it didnt kill them. You can see it in rifle wounds, doesnt mean it doesnt happen in pistol calibers.
>>29507671
>How about you filter my jizz
now hes a guy.....and is starting to mimic me talking like a darkie in his own replies.
lemme get this straight..... you are a male, and call other men "shitlords"?
You sure you belong on this board and not >>>/lgbt/ ?
>>29507674
Not him, but are you legitimately autistic?
That's some hardcore autism
>>29507674
What consequences? Me having to put up with another line of dialogue that sounds like Mr. Rogers trying to be a polite twink on a message board? Suck a fuck, Donnie.
>>29507742
>can't figure out how to respond when told that I was an inconsiderate ass and there are consequences for my actions
>I know, I'll call the other person autistic!! That'll shut him up :^)
>>29507719
I belong 9 inches up your asshole, but this will have to suffice.
>>29507753
This is my second post in this thread
>Consequences
>>29507753
No one said you were an inconsiderate ass. I said that you talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded. Someone else called you an autist. No one is impressed by your emoticons.
Also, coming to 4chan at all has the consequence of watching twinks peck at a keyboard, those consequences have nothing to do with you.
>>29505857
Found the fowty lovin nigger.
>trying this hard to defend a handgun round
>>29507756
>fagget
>calls other men "shitlords"
>attempts to project itself as a giver and not a taker
fuck outta here bitchnigger. how bout you prove you even own a gun rather than shitpost constantly.
>>29507699
>You can see it in rifle wounds, doesnt mean it doesnt happen in pistol calibers.
That doesn't happen in service pistol calibers, they do NOT have enough force to cause that. Ballistics gel is not as elastic as organic tissues, the deformation around the path of the bullet do not represent the permanent wound cavity.
>>29506044
Nobody makes mainstream shit in 10mm besides Glock, and the round will never, *ever* be mainstream, no matter how much you faggots try to derail .40 threads because you fags are so butthurt.
Cry some more into your bucket of overpriced brass you gingerly bend over and pick up off floor of the range, you cuck
>>29507783
This has never been about owning guns. I could post some shitty cellphone pics of my guns and it would make no difference in this discussion.
And you can GIVE me that booty and I'll TAKE my time, you punk.
>>29505235
Lots of people like .40S&W. I like them and I shoot well with them. The added recoil doesn't bother me and it tends to be on the shelves when everyone freaks out "omg muh gun ban." These caliber wars have existed on /k/ forever. .40 acts as a good middle ground to a 9mm and a .45ACP. It doesn't mean that it's inherently better or worse than one or the other, everyone just has their preferences.
>>29507746
>What consequences?
You getting your panties twisted into a knot and practically shitting yourself in a fit of rage and confusion.
>>29507831
>I could post some shitty cellphone pics of my guns
what guns pussy? you can lie to yourself, but dont lie to people you dont even know and will never meet.
>>29507804
10/10 reading comprehension
>>29507855
I'm talking trash on the internet, when has that ever been indicative of any of those symptoms? Am I still talking to the retard who considers all cops to be "professional thugs"?
>>29507866
Is there any cognition happening upstairs, or do you just speak in memes and reply with buzzwords that you heard other people say in other threads on 4chan?
>>29507864
Oh for shit's sake.
You want the one of my 12g, my revolver, my lever-action? Will shitty cellphone pics of my guns propped up in my rotten old gazebo change your opinion of a damn thing?
For shits and giggles, where are yours?
>mfw posting in a caliber war thread
>>29505454
>it has all of the weaknesses of both and none of the positives of either
Except more terminal ballistics potential than 9mm while having more capacity than .45 and can be put into a 9mm sized pistol. Yep, none of the advantages and all the negatives. KEK
>>29507897
>12g, my revolver, lever-action, M44
looks like you have no horse in this race faggot. Why dont you take your disinfo and fucktardedness and fuck off back to lleddit with likeminded shitheads such as yourself? This isnt a .38 vs .357 thread.
>>29507879
You clearly don't understand the context and didn't read the follow ups to the post, so 10/10 reading comprehension.
>>29507866
I just want to learn about the .40, that's all I want to do. Every time the numbers 4 and 0 appear next to eachother, all the 10mm fags crawl out of the woodwork and start spouting shit about Muh Superior Round That Nobody Uses Despite Its Inherent Superiority. They go off on /pol/ tier conspiracy rants about glass wrists and women in the FBI, like God himself conspired against this perfect round too good apparently for mortal men.
It's like they think the more they fucking whine, that some mainstream gun maker besides Glock is going to grace them with a gun in their holy caliber.
It's not going to happen, it's never going to happen. It might've had a chance to happen about 10 fucking years ago, but 9mm is undergoing a rennaisance, and if people can have a 9mm that is good enough, nobody will want to spend the extra for a 10mm: those that would are going to get a .45, another caliber that is supposedly better because it's bigger.
Now, I see all these cheap .40s, and I think, "huh. this looks like a nice gun for cheap, I want to know more about the cartridge. Oh look, a thread on /k/"
And every thread without fail the 10mm fags crawl out of the wood work beginning their daily calibre dance, praying for a mainstream gun in 10mm, just one that's not a Glock, and hoping that by killling these threads and sacrificing it to their 10mm god it'll happen some day.
And it won't. The end result of me still being in perpetual, indecisive hell about getting a .40 doesn't change either, because of these fucking gaylords.
All I want to have is a nice intellectual discussion about .40, so that I may finally learn a thing or two without the entire fucking thread being clogged up with "MUH GLASS WRISTS", "MUH WOMEN", "MUH FBI", "MUH SHORT&WEAK", "MUH POLICE", "MUH MIDDLE ROAD FALLACY", "MUH GLOCKNADE", and "MUH I N H E R E N T S U P E R I O R I T Y"
>>29507977
Disinfo? What the shit are you rambling on about? My horse in this race is that the dude who called all cops "high school grads turned professional thugs" was a moron, I even started that post with "I have no input on service handguns", what the fuck are you so mad about? Is that dude your deviantart lover or someshit?
>>29505992
that's davidsons or rsr? If their website was slightly less dinosaur and a bit more like Lipsey's I'd use it more often
>>29507977
Oh, still waiting on the pics of your guns, if you want to be a needling twat about mine the least you can do is post your own.
>>29506921
I wish I could provide better data than this, but like I said most agencies don't investigate it because it's not in the scope of the investigation.
Also I don't agree with you on FMJ's for defensive use, overpenetration can cause substantial liability issues.
>>29508058
>overpenetration can cause substantial liability issues.
I hate when people say this.
Accuracy under stress of actually hitting your target varies between shooters, but is generally 20-50%. That means half or more of the shots you take are gonna miss your intended target. Those rounds are going to hit something at absolute full power.
Now, when you put those rounds as JHP's, they will do more damage if they expand and penetrate as they are designed, to whatever target they hit. (Liability of hitting bystander exists)
Now, lets look at FMJ's in same senario. If you hit a bystander, it will penetrate at full power (same), however hole will be less in size and strictly by pecentage, less likely to hit something vital up to 40% (when comparing...say Fed HST's which expand about 40%)
What you are referring to pretty much strictly applies to where two bodies are so close to each other, that after the round penetrates the first person, it has sufficient energy to reach vitals in the second. Basically the stars have to align and the man upstairs wants the bystander dead.
IE, overpenetration is a catchphrase thrown around by ammo makers to convince you to buy their $1/rd overpriced shit.
>>29507995
CZ, EAA, and Sig aren't major manufacturers?
news to me.
Also get over it 10mm is objectively the best auto loading pistol round. It has been proven time and time again. It's also softer shooting for some reason than it's bitch cartridge. Shoot yourself directly in the face with your 40 short and weak and cry your poorfag tears
>>29506851
>police departments are experts on bullets
fucking amerilards...
>>29508226
>than it's bitch cartridge
Exposed your bait, 2/10. If you were going for ironic shitposting, you failed too, by neglecting to say "shoot you'reself directly in the face"
>>29507977
>no horse in this race faggot
So having no bias is a bad thing now?
>>29505857
Let me correct you
Respects in which 9mm is better:
-Low recoil allows for faster follow-up shots
-Less wear and tear on the guns
-More capacity
-Less expensive (means more training)
Respects in which .40 is better:
-Insignificant extra energy
-blast radius when gun goes kaboom
>>29508291
>So having no bias is a bad thing now?
Not necessarily. however you have a blatant bias towards LOLonly9mm.
>>29507995
You know that several new 10mms have either hit the market or have been announced within the last year and that the current state of 10mm is more popular than it's ever been because it's an enthusiasts round, not a utilitarian round right?
The whining you mentioned is consumer feedback and demand. That is literally how it works
.40 and 10mm are for fucktards
>>29508201
I get what you're saying, but it's a liability that cities and counties don't want to take on. Let's say an officer fires 10 rounds with a 30% hit rate. 7 rounds missed and are all liabilities in and of themselves, something agencies understand and just have to suck up. The 3 rounds that hit, if are ball ammo, are likely going to pass through and through resulting in 3 more possible liabilities. Now let's say it was JHP's....can they over penetrate? Absolutely, one of mine sure did. But they have a chance not to, and that's a lesser chance of a potential lawsuit. It's about mitigating liability, it can never be completely eliminated. There is no such thing as a perfect bullet, a perfect shooter, or perfect circumstances. Sometimes shit happens.
Even the army recently stated that they are open to the idea of keeping the 9mm NATO cartridge and switching to a JHP for their M9 replacement. JHP'S simply have a better chance of causing more tissue damage and delivering more kinetic energy to hopefully stop a threat quicker, and as a result of the likelihood of expansion are less likely to over penetrate. It's not a myth or a gimmick that ammo makers pitch.
>>29508256
>Police departments and the FBI just blindly pick calibers
>Thinks the actual fucking cops are the ones doing the research and not actual people paid to do research for them.
>Being a non American and giving your opinion about firearms at all
Which shitposting country are you?
Australia
Germany
Canada
>>29508386
This.
>>29508325
That was my first post regarding that entire argument you seem to be having with the world and my preference falls far more towards specific firearms than it does with the cartridges, especially pertaining to service calibers. You however seem to be more focused on shitposting than gaining anything or contributing to the thread
I always figure the bigger you can make a bullet and the deeper you can penetrate with it, the better your chances of hitting or cutting something vital. That's why I like the HST rounds in 9mm, .40, and .45.
But this is also why I don't see the .40 going anywhere. There are some really good 9mm rounds that can do very well, but your are talking about the upper end of the premium bullets in 9mm. If all the police departments switch to those few rounds, there would be a massive shortage, were as the bulk of the .40 rounds do quite well and perform to the standard most police departments are looking for. So rather than risk an ammo shortage trying to get the best 9mm round, they can have a steady stream of equally well performing .40 ammo while only costing 1 or 2 rounds in the mag.
>>29508283
neither bait nor shitposting
I see that you're so assdamaged you can't handle the truth
>>29505990
>>29505990
Different anon, but ive had both and the fnx is vastly superior.
Although i sold the cz to some neckbeard in an urban camo boonie hat for $50 more than i paid for it
>>29508303
Even after all this, the 9IDF is still going full damage control.
>>29508386
>i bet you're from some country where the cops don't kill thousands of people a year!
ding ding ding
>>29508457
>It's a bad thing that the police shoot criminals instead of politely asking them to stop
Shouldn't you be rimming muhammad and Jamal right now?
>>29508414
>there would be a massive shortage
Critical Defense/Duty, Speer Gold Dot, HST, PDX1, Golden Saber
All of them are good, most of them are excellent and offer similar performance, none of them are anywhere near shortage.
>>29508457
So tolerant
Can't wait till Bernie is elected and then only the police will have guns, but then they will also take the guns from the police, because they're evil and racist, so no one will have guns.
I'm a pro gun liberal, but I fully support a totalitarian government as long as gays have the right to marry and weed is legalized.
>>29507236
unless there's a major rule change, .40 S&W's here to stay in IPSC Standard/USPSA Limited (and i guess Classic/Single Stack). at least it hasn't had superface problems.
i mean what other caliber is out there? .41 AE?
i personally think its heyday as the compromise caliber for cops is over, though.
>>29507555
>>29507568
>>29507582
>>29507599
A little late, but still interesting to note that those tests we're using barrels in the 3.5" range as opposed to the usual 4".
I would like to see how more of the HSTs I'm more diverse weights performed but oh well. The .380 test is especially interesting when compared to shooting the bulls test
>>29508434
I don't CARE about 10mm. I don't want to hear about it, I don't want it brought up. I want to see someone go in depth about .40 with actual stats. Instead of fps, it just says "more than .45 but less than 9mm". Instead of energy expended, it says "more than 9mm but less than all hailed glorious 10mm because you have le bitch wrists le fbi le women guys when will people start making guns in 10mm more often"
I just want to hear about .40, because I'm thinking about buying the many cheap .40s on the market, and because .40 will be cheaper because departments are finally letting go of the .40 is best middle ground cartridge meme. So naturally this makes me curious to the capabilities of the cartridge.
But no, all I get is shitposting by you 10mm fags. Even on the fucking civlized forums you find in google searches, every thread where .40 is mentioned in the title inevitably turns into a 10mm shit flinging contest.
I just want to hear about the .40, not hear how it compares to a round I have no interest in purchasing anything for. If I wanted a special snowflake super cartridge, I'd buy fucking .357 sig. IfI wanted something that clearly outperforms any of your bullshit cartridges, I'd OC a .44 magnum.
But as it stands, I want to hear about the pros and cons of .40 because it is cheaper now and I am a poorfag who has to count his dollars carefully.
>>29508560
Then eventually only black gender fluid Muslims will have the right to vote
>>29508666
Gender and race are social constructs shitlord
Can't wait till Hillary implements his Trigger Tax and you're fined for your internet comments not respecting that
>>29508454
>I have no argument waaah
>>29508645
That was basically the point I was trying to make in the first post. Using .38 super as some extinct round or yore seemed a bit silly. Sure service and self defense rounds Ger the most spotlight, but firearms go far beyond that into many other specialization. .40 has a pretty decent following as an outdoor cartridge with some folks as well. The idea that a market suddenly flooded with cheaper .40 pistols almost seems counter intuitive to he argument the detractors are trying to make doesnt event. Having NIB pistols with real defensive ammo for the price of a surplus handgun is going to appeal to a lot of people
>>29508660
You know, in the time in took you to type this out you could have googled it and found everything you wanted to know
>>29508660
>being this ass-mad
>>29508660
Pros
>the guns are cheap as fuck right now
>plenty of load selection
Cons
>it's too snappy for some people
>it cost slightly more
>endless stupid fucking debates about shit that's been discussed to death by people thinking 4chan is a good place to have civil productive conversations before shitposting and personal Crusades kick in.
There, that's everything you need to know about the subject. If you want one because the gun is cheap, buy one and spare us all your wall of text next time by doing a goddamn Google search and using a better source than /k/ for info because chances are anything you want to ask about have been argues over 20 times a month with 2% of the participants gaining anything useful.
>>29505800
Shit let them buy what they want. More rugers for me.
>>29508660
Except you got your answer
If you want the caliber, then buy it. There's no point trying to justify it through cost or stoppan powah.
10mm is the ultimate special snowflake round. The 10mm fags are comparing it because it's literally the only reason to buy that cartridge. Muh bears is not valid because they don't go outside anyway.
9mm is cheaper overall than .40 in the majority of guns and ammo.
/k/ has been having caliber wars for years and I would seriously be surprised if anyone has ever changed their opinions based on weebs and NEETs on a Cantonese etch-a-sketch Illumination Hentai coloring book trading card forum.
>>29508660
We can talk about the 10mm Magnum instead if you want.
>>29508779
See, I had no idea about load selection. I've googled a bunch of stuff, but from what I've gathered .40 is just pushed to the maximum all the time every cartridge. By load do you mean powder or the actual bullet? Which one performs better, I've seen an argument arguing for one over the other, but couldn't really understand what either one meant.
I wish I didn't have to post here for information, but the only other place where I can talk to a human about this topic are gun forums like the highroad, where posts are a month in between and fudd-lore abounds. Not saying fudd-lore doesn't abound here, but the majority of the people here are at least wary about it and most will call people out for it.
So what did you mean by load selection? Could anyone tell me how it does out of a carbine barrel? I was considering getting a .40 hi point carbine as well (not the pistol). I've heard reports of the 9mm rifle being able to repeatedly ring a decently sized steel gong at 100 yards. I had a .45 carbine almost fall into my lap, but the accuracy at range is what bugged me about that one. Can anyone help me out here?
>>29508809
Makes sense desu, appreciate it
>>29508660
I'm that guy you responded to.
Buy your poorfag gun. it will serve you quite well. Remember that Blohkin killed a bunch of people with a 25.
But then, someday, go shoot that which you hate, the 10, and then discover it's a better cartridge in every way. It's even softer shooting. Then you will discover why 10mm fags do what they do, the FBI had it's finger on the best thing to happen to centerfire pistols in the last fifty years and decided to fuck it up into an abortion that manages to perform almost exactly the same as the 9mm they deemed too weak.
So when you ask people for their honest opinion on how the 1980 olympic games went, don't be surprised when some of them get really mad about soviet judges and the triple jump
9mm for capacity without compromise,
10mm for practical revolver-tier power in an automatic,
.45 for convenient subsonic suppressed use,
.380 if you're a woman,
5.7 if you truly want maximum wound vectors.
Truly, in what world does .40 serve any relevant niche at all?
>>29508876
You can't cheat physics, the 10mm is softer shooting because the pistols chambered for it are larger and heavier
>>29508897
even in the glock 29 I found it to be softer shooting than the 27. explain that one.
>>29508809
pic related is reason enough
