Glorious swords thread. What swords/bladed weapons did your country use in the past?
Literally it slew more people than the nuclear bomb
>>29489371
A good sword for chopping unarmed peasants and utterly useless in any duel resembling situation
>>29489392
Oh please tell me how the mighty katana is different?
>>29489407
The existence of kenjutsu, iaido, and kendo suggests you're full of shit. Sure it's useless weebshit today but it was the best sword that could reasonably be made under the restrictions of shitty Japanese iron and metallurgy.
>>29489345
Bowie knife. The US never really had a distinctive sword, since we were founded recently enough that generic cavalry sabers versus stone age natives were the only ones to get any real use.
Here is something I think you guys might find interesting as weapons from the region and era are few and far between. Those are Bulgarian Sabres dating from the 7th to the 9th century. Seeing as nobody knows where the Bulgarians came from the guesses are somewhere near Mongolia. As evidenced by the fact that they were ruled by khans, worshiped the horse, their banner was a horse tail and did most of their combat on horseback hence sabres and short compound bows.
>>29489535
Here are Bulgarian swords from the 12th 13th century as you can see the european influence
>>29489631
And lastly 14th century two handers
>>29489345
Mostly heavy sabers, used mainly from horseback, but occasionally also as a dueling weapon.
>>29489474
>shitty Japanese iron and metallurgy
The iron sands that they used to make the steel were very impure. But tamahagane is not poor steel by any means. It is the same as any regular high carbon steel, the refinement process of seperating ore from the impurities was just a lengthier process.
>>29491493
Tatara could not produce heats enough to truly separate steel from all the impurities. Mind you not many cultures had that capability, but those that did certainly produced higher quality blades.
This from someone that loves katana with a passion, but it is what it is. It's why the folding process was even a thing, if you can't rid all the impurities the best you can do is attempt to evenly distribute them throughout the blade to diminish potential weak points.
>>29491493
>>29491576
You guys seem to not mention that the Japanese didn't even spring temper their steel. Tamahagane can be made to be pretty homgenous, and surviving swords have been tested to be very pure. But it still doesn't mean shit when your sword bends almost in half and stays that way when it contacts another hard point.
>>29492586
>You guys seem to not mention that the Japanese didn't even spring temper their steel
>why would you mention something that isn't a total advantage
We were talking disadvantages here.
>>29492598
Not having a spring temper is a disadvantage. Hence why the vast majority of sword makers started doing that once they figured out how to. It's only some less developed Asian areas that kept using the multi layered approach because they either lacked the knowledge or resources, or were "muh edge hardness" like Japan.
>>29489535
Wait, didn't the Bulgarians come out of the Volga region long ago?
I thought they changed so much over time due to having such diverse neighbors to look like they do today, and speak like they do today.
>>29492794
>muh edge hardness
Is important, but the thickness, and rigidity of the blade are what really lends itself to being such a good cutting tool. Which, is what the katana is all about. Spring steel blades will never be as forgiving a cutter as martensite on pearlite.
It's an advantage of durability, and it's forgiving in total fuck up, but certainly not in the cut.
>>29492794
And this is what happens to a sword that has a spring temper. Doesn't fold over and become nearly useless. Not really a realistic depiction of anything that would happen in combat, but it just shows which method is more durable.
>>29492883
Still not a total advantage, it depends on what the blade is being used for, and contrary to popular believe, the katana was not meant for first draw combat.
>>29492883
and it performs just as well at cutting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-5oNV-WPvY
>>29492794
You're mixing up the heat treatment and the forging process.
Lamination was used for a long while in Europe too, for example i recall some documentation from the Toledo arms factory about blades being made with a soft core wrapped between two pieces of harder steel.
Differential heat treatment doesn't seem to have been used in Europe, or at least i haven't seen any references to it anywhere for whatever reason.
I does give a harder edge without being as brittle as a fully hardened and untempered blade, but it's still less durable than a spring tempered blade. Hence Japanese blades being somewhat fat to compensate.
Though for the record, having to make blades fat so they don't break is bad for cutting.
>>29492807
The Bulgarians settled in the Volga region around 630AD, from there they settled in the place where today's Bulgaria is in 681AD. At that time they were still pretty much nomadic people. However the land was ok and they made a deal with the local Slavs against the Byzantine empire.
>>29492934
>>29492940
>Though for the record, having to make blades fat so they don't break is bad for cutting.
Incorrect, this is why axes are so good at splitting wood, the thickness and steel state of the blade lends to structural stability. There isn't a lot of play of movement in the blade itself as it travels into the material it's cutting, again, why the katana is FORGIVING in the cut. Not necessarily, BETTER, but it certainly helps when you're attacking a material like say, a human, that's made up of different tissues and likely moving as you strike it. This is basic physics.
>>29492934
When neither weapon fails to cut it's hard to judge if one performed particularly well though.
And honestly the "lets smash a braced sword" test is pretty dumb. By that test the best "sword" would probably be a maul.
>>29492978
Splitting wood is not the issue with swords. Also in the case of axes it's also a matter of inertia. Also that the axe might be used as a wedge and pushed with a maul.
A thin blade cuts better, it just suffers less resistance in the cut. A thick (hence rigid) blade might endure bad cuts better, but a good cut with a thin blade will work better than a good cut with a fat blade.
>>29492951
But yeah as you said, there's a lot of different DNA in the blood of a modern day Bulgarian and quite frankly the Porto-Bulgarian percentage is quite small. Here's what some research wielded :
"To define the matrilineal relationships between Bulgarians and other European populations, we have evaluated the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) variation in a sample of 855 Bulgarian subjects from the mtDNA perspective. The molecular survey was performed by sequencing -750 bp of the control region, which resulted in 557 different haplotypes, and by a subsequent restriction fragment length polymorphism analysis to confirm haplogroup/subhaplogroup affiliation. [...] The observed pattern of mtDNA variation indicates that the Bulgarian mitochondrial pool is geographically homogeneous across the country, and that is characterized by an overall extremely high frequency of western Eurasian lineages. In the principal component analysis, Bulgarians locate in an intermediate position between Eastern European and Mediterranean populations, which is in agreement with historical events. Thus, while the Mediterranean legacy could be attributed to the Thracians, indigenous people that firstly inhabited the Balkans, the Eastern contribution is likely due to the Proto-Bulgarians originating from the Middle East and to the Slavs migrating from northeast Europe."
>sword thread
>thinks for a second an actual discussion might happen
>nip shit
Whether katanas are or are not X doesn't matter. Every deficiency can be explained away with 'japs can't into war or arms due to military incompetence'. Every positive trait can be explaiend away with 'yes, that is a valid point. The katana does have positive characteristics'
.
Can we talk about other swords and stay away from swords that have been memes since before the internet?
>>29493036
>Splitting wood is not the issue with swords
Splitting MATERIAL is, any material.
>Also in the case of axes it's also a matter of inertia
Which a katana also has an advantage in
>Also that the axe might be used as a wedge and pushed with a maul
Irrelevant to the conversation
>A thin blade cuts better
No.
>>29492854
stiffness is a product of blade geometry
>>29493070
>Splitting MATERIAL is, any material.
Hurrr, why aren't swords made to cut pipes?
because they aren't pipe cutters.
>Which a katana also has an advantage in
Only a moran chops anything with a non-peasant bladed anything.
>Irrelevant to the conversation
anon has you there, this is a sword thread, not a ye olde weapon thread.
>No.
sorta. Thin blades are good for cutting thin things or making thin cuts.
It's a grey line between whether you are making a cut or using a wedge.
>>29493098
>stiffness is a product of blade geometry
Also materials.
>>29493098
Yes....which includes thickness...
Do you know what blade geometry is?
>>29492978
pic related is an axe made for combat. does it look thick to you?
>>29493127
Fucking mall ninjas...
They just have to skeletonize everything.
>>29493117
And?
>Only a moran chops anything with a non-peasant bladed anything
I'm stopping right here, I can see you're just memeing it up and don't actually know anything.
>>29493127
>this is a weapon made for combat
>it overrules basic physics
Yeee nawww lol, you tried tho.
>>29493118
he said
>Spring steel blades will never be as forgiving a cutter as martensite on pearlite.
>>29489345
>What swords/bladed weapons did your country use in the past?
Nothing fancy, we call it the murder axe, we did use it to murder people.
>>29493151
Oh, then yeah, what the other dude says, it also includes materials.
>>29489345
