I was contemplating the usefulness of bolt actions in a civil war scenario for something I am writing. How fast can a trained shooter cycle the bolt and acquire another target on a .308 winchester hutning rifle versus, say, an FN FAL? How fast can DMRs reacquire targets? I imagine that at longer ranges the bolt action will be more accurate, while the semi will be faster to cycle with a lower recoil. Thing is, I hear a lot of people say you cannot cycle more than 15 rounds a minute, which seems like major bullshit to me after seeing people shoot their bolt actions. Let's say we'd be talking about engaging a group of three targets on 400 and 800 meters, that being around 437 and 875 yards, respectively.
bump
>>29476453
If you know where your target is and it isn't moving then rapid target acquisition is pretty easy. If they're on the move then it gets harder.
If you're at a close range then you definitely don't want a scope bolt gun. A semi auto with irons or a red dot type sight.
>>29476662
Character uses an smg at close range, so that shouldn't really be an issue, would it?
>>29476453
~1 second.
Semi-auto with delayed bolt is near identical in accuracy.
Assuming the shooter is firing from a supported position, has proper form, and can maintain a cheek weld while cycling the action, the can maintain a decent rate of fire. However, you probably wouldn't have those luxuries on an honest to god firefight.
As for your scenario, if a group of people 600 yards out and they haven't already noticed you, it's probably better to avoid them all together.
>>29476751
>>29476682
So say, a G3 would be much better?
Unfortunately I don't know a lot of hunters with these, but heh.
>>29476673
>carrying both an SMG and a longer rifle
Halo fanfic alert. Give them a battle rifle and a pistol.
>>29476453
WW1 Brit Expeditionary force had to qualify with 15 rounds per minute at 500m onto a man sized target, the best of their best could lay down 20.
As slightly different as the .303 is to .308, its not exactly a stretch of the imagination to do it.
>>29476799
Ah, interesting.
How does that compare to a battle rifle shooter?
>>29476804
Battle rifles as used in the military go full giggle. How fast can you swap mags?
>>29476782
More of like an callback to the "homemade" smgs used during the balkan war.
>>29476453
Pretty fast, it has to do with practicing, and finding your cheekweld fast, like skeet/trap shooting, if you can do that fast, and well, you will pretty much be on target when the gun gets to your shoulder.
>>29476813
I'd probably have to deal with semi conversions. Can you still aim them in giggletime at long range, though?
>>29476834
You can't, but semi-auto allows you to take really fast follow up shots quickly enough to need to change mags unless you use a 30 rounder.
>>29476804
Fairly much aim, shoot, breath-cycle round, aim, shoot etc
Some bolt actions are faster to cycle than others, which is probably the old SMLEs greatest design component aside from a fairly large magazine for the time.
Battle rifles I've only seen used a couple of times in anger in Afghanistan, (and not so angry at range practice) they can send a lot of shit downrange and its mostly a case of getting the recoil under control, before aiming and firing again- which is slightly faster than the bolt action, but there's still a pause between each shot. There are people out there who are literally 'born to shoot' and frankly, with training they're fucking scary.
But they're also uncommon, you literally have to scour your entire armed forces to find the legit ones.
In terms of the old fudd-gun bolt action rifle having a place in modern warfare, its role is becoming extremely niche in conventional armies and has been since about the 1960's.
Unconventional armies, those cunts will pick up anything...
>>29476870
Huh, I see. So battle rifles are not that much faster than hunting bolt action guns in long range use?
>>29477084
Oh no, much faster cyclic rate of fire on the semi-auto, plus you get the versatility of that in close which often matters a lot more.
If I compare the two best guns I've got, an old-school Weatherby in .300 mag and a fairly new-ish H&K MR308.
The Weatherby can quite easily hit out to 6-750m fairly accurately and consistently, but you'd be pressed to hammer out more than 8-10 shots in a minute. The MR can slap out a full 20-30 aimed shots in about the same time to about 4-500m and most of them will hit the target or pretty close to it.
Keeping in mind, I'm not a crack shot so some people are much better than me. Being ex-military doesn't necessarily mean you're a good shot :)
>>29477141
Ahh, I see. That's what I've been looking for. Thanks a lot!
>>29476453
fast if you train
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOgXcffC3ow
>>29476453
That only really starts to matter once you start using it as a DMR.
A sniper will fire once, twice max, and then pack up and relocate to fire again.
A DMR isn't going to be firing far enough out accurately enough to justify a bolt action.
Therefore a semi auto is better in the sense of what you want, but it's also technically not what you want.
Using a bolt action isn't that hard though.
I can blow through ammo like nothing else in my M48.
>>29477084
For aimed shots only marginally faster but still faster>>29477141
fast enough to shoot 2 of them before the third gets to cover
>>29476813
Hits, on a man sized target, at 500m
Not how many rounds can you waste in a general direction
