Why is the state of guns so stagnant today?
>I want a pistol
>get yourself a glock
>but I don't want a glock
>ok then get this [insert polymer framed, striker fired gun here]
>I want a rifle
>get an AR-15
>I want something else
>well get this [insert AR-15 "platform" knockoff here]
Because there's nowhere else to go. Sure, caseless might become a thing, but that's really a sidegrade rather than an upgrade.
>I want a pistol, but will give no other information as to prior experience with any other models, what the intended use is, or any other factors that may aid others in helping me choose a pistol
>guess I'll make a stupid thread because everyone told me to buy a glock
>>29475725
You get those answers because we don't want to spoon feed you.
>be new to guns
>find out nearly all of my hero guns from the movies/my vidya are various combinations of unreliable, impractical, rare, redundant, inefficient or ineffective
I know this feeling, OP. It gets better with time.
>a-at least my M9 is good
>>29475725
Glocks and AR-15s are great choices for starters that don't know what they want yet.
Be a big boy and make your own decisions if you want something special.
I've thought this through many, many times.
My final answer is that although I love firearms, most firearms fans in the US are complete, utter idiots with heavily ingrained, dogmatic beliefs.
In terms of pistols, we have actually REGRESSED. Gone are the days when innovative designs like the HK P7 or Luger were available on the open market. Every single semi-auto pistol for sale is now based on the same barrel-slide-frame design with slightly varying dimensions.
At least the semi-auto rifle world has given us some new things like a modernized AUG, Tavor and the SCAR.
Maybe you don't understand realistic product markets or have a superfluous understanding of how things should be.
The answer to every "which car" question is "Miata." Have you ever heard that?
There are other ways to get the idea across.
>Friend wants to buy a first car
>Wants something America
>Wants a muscle car
>Wants to be able to work on it
>Wants something from early 2000's
>Wants rwd
>Everyone keeps telling him "How about a Mustang"
>Another kid keeps talking to me about what car he wants next, he's only owned American cars
>Everyone keeps recommending the same stupid Japanese cars to him
The car market is NOT stagnant at all. Neither is the gun market.
>>29475725
Because its all 1940s-60s technology that has plateaued and there have been no huge improvements on small-arms since then.
Glocks are great guns, stop whining, there are plenty of glock clones that will fit your babby hands but they will do the same thing.
and almost every other rifle that you pick up that isnt an ak will either be an AR-15 or an almost direct copy of the AR-180.
diversity is nice, but if it works dont fix it.
>>29475725
Because the few non shit all metal guns are way over priced.
And for rifles, if a semi auto is what you want then yes, the AR is the best all around choice.
But it's your money, buy what you want, most of us made wasted plenty of money on garbage guns before we got to the good ones, you wanting to be a special little snowflake will cause ttou the same problems, and in 10 years after you flushed a few grand down the drain on shit, you will be saying the same shit to new snowflake assholes.
>>29475725
>how do change this part on a glock?
Just go to your gun store, buy the part and follow these instructions. If you need help, any local armorer has done it a thousand times.
>how do change this part on an AR15?
Just go to your gun store, buy the part and follow these instructions. If you need help, any local armorer has done it a thousand times.
>how do change this part on this Czech pistol?
Wait til tonight, call Czechoslovakia, give them this prepaid euro debit card, wait 2 months for the package to clear customs, pay import duties, hope you got the right part despite the language barrier, shave the part so it fits your particular model, hope you got it fit correctly because there are no local gunsmiths who are willing to help for less than $150/hour and an armorer won't suffice.
>>29475769
Please do go on, I want to know which hero guns you are talking about?
There are literally more choices than there have ever been.
Maybe you should dig a little deeper than not at all.
>>29475846
>CZ customization is complex and long
>what is CZ Custom Shop in the US. What is Cajun Gun Works.
as for price, meh. That's just how it is when CZ isn't that popular and don't command that big a market in the states.
>>29475846
Move to a non cuckold state.
I have a licensed CZ smith a short 10 minute drive from my front porch.
It's not my fault that the mall ninja yuppie trash in your area have poor taste.
>>29475725
>AR-15
Wrong. The rifle you are looking for is the nugget
>>29475895
>CZ
>Anything more than potmetal garbage
Their even worse than the Croatian shit.
>>29475925
Noguns: the post
>>29475847
>SPAS-12 is heavy, finicky, rare, and not manufactured anymore
>Uzi pattern weapons in civilian configurations tend to be jammy, poorly balanced as a straight-up pistol, poorly manufactured, and heavy
>AKs are heavy, have absolutely abysmal ergonomics, and the controls are hard to easily manipulate
And so on. Now, this doesn't mean they aren't interesting weapons, or don't fill their role well. It's just a bit depressing seeing "[actor]'s gun from [movie/game]!" have a hangfire, or a failure to feed/eject, and then hear the owner go "Yeah, I figured it'd do that sooner or later." And then spend the next 5 minutes mulling over the thing disassembled before packing it away and ordering a replacement part for it on his phone.
>>29475925
>this obsessed with CZ
Did the glock grenade meme get too hot and heavy for you? Cause you sure aint into sig or HK, since those are way above price range of glock/CZ base.
because glocks and ARs are way cheaper then then they should be, too much supply, and while there still alot of demand more innovative platforms (say the tavor) will be super expensive to buy as the supply is much smaller. The tavor is a only minor improvement of an AR-15 so why buy it at a much higher cost.
>>29475952
>AKs are heavy, have absolutely abysmal ergonomics, and the controls are hard to easily manipulate
Sure, maybe a purist AK47 build.
>>29475952
SPAS-12:
Yeah it is kinda a POS for what it does. Got to give it points for style and features like the ability to switch between pump and semi though.
Uzi:
The clones suck, but until the MP5 came alone these guns ruled the SMG market for their rugged reliability. The US secret service used these guns to protect the president during the 80s. So while they are outclassed today, they are not bad weapons by any stretch.
AK:
Now you are flat-out wrong. AKs are THE MOST WIDELY USED firearm in the world today, by no small measure. There are more AKs out there than all other weapons combined. They are not the latest and greatest, but you have to respect the AK for what it is: The most successful assault rifle of all time.
>>29475725
Have you tried turning it off and on again?
>>29475976
Of the estimated 500 million firearms worldwide, approximately 100 million belong to the Kalashnikov family, three-quarters of which are AK-47s
I stand corrected. Still, 1/5ths of the firearms in existence are AKs for very good reason.
>>29475725
It's the tacticool in the gun community right now. They're all about glocks and ARs.
>>29475873
His point was that kind of shit sill happen with obscure, foreign, hipster pistols. He was using czech as an example.
Autism speaks.
>>29476008
What czech pistol was he talking about then?
>>29475954
HK and SIG both have several guns in the price range of cz and glock base models...
>>29475976
Like I said: the AK is GREAT at what it does. But it is not the adamantium-pressed tank-piercer everyone makes them out to be. I found it to be heavy and awkward to aim/hold for a rifle of its caliber. I also found that I couldn't engage or disengage the safety or folding stock with anything amounting to speed. Chalk it up to user failure or personal preference, but it just wasn't performing how I would want a weapon to. They're fun and tough to be sure, and like you said, they're popular for a reason. It just disappointed me.
>>29476014
you mean the two offer their main line at that price or you mean they specifically have another lower priced line?
Because cz and glock's main line models are $400-600, with their more special/limited stuff commanding higher price tags.
>>29476025
>I found
>I found
>I found
That's nice.
>>29476064
Don't be an ass. It's better than spouting every single goddamn anecdote as objective fact, which seems to be par for the course for this board anyway.
>>29476088
Don't make generalities and universalities from your own single experience, fuccboi.
>>29476013
Literally any CZ other than the CZ 75. How about the CZ 2075 RAMI subcompact. Good luck.
>>29475997
>I have no idea what the buzzwords I pick up around here mean, but they sure sound cool!
>>29476103
So there's absolutely nothing wrong with the ergos, weight, controls, or sights, and anything to the contrary is just hearsay. Gotcha. I'll remember that the next time I pass one over for an AR.
>>29475725
Who is this
semen demon?
sperm worm?
boner toner?
spunk monk?
cock dock?
erection ejection?
dick tick?
cum plum?
seed steed?
prick chick?
cock stock?
seminal sentinel?
phallus chalice?
anus ignoramus?
smegma enigma?
beef curtain hurtin?
cunt runt?
jism prison?
ballbiting ballerina?
dongle mongle?
penis machinist?
chin chin bin?
scrotum sorceress?
wiener cleaner?
pole populator?
stiffy stimulator?
pillar pimper?
column culminator?
testicle tamer?
sperm specialist?
glans gladiator?
frenulum fractionizer?
foreskin fornicator?
penile private?
smut sergeant?
cock captain?
\orifice officer?
rear admiral?
cummander?
lewd lieutenant?
meat major?
cunt colonel?
wiener witch?
phallus phalanx?
cock commandant?
dong deity?
seminal fluid druid?
jizz wiz?
benis burglar?
wang waxer?
schlong sentinel?
dick dastard?
jizz jezebel?
Who is this tally wacker packer?
Who is this schlong sorcerrer?
Who is this weenie genie?
Who is this chode road?
Who is this male repoductive organ gorgan?
Who is this shaft shaft?
Who is this ding dong dungeon?
Who is this scrotum totem?
Who is this ballsack knapsack?
Who is this testicle vestibule?
Who is this ball butter nutter?
Who is this cock cream captivator?
Who is this man milk mephistopheles?
Who is this smega smuggler?
Who is this cum connoisseur?
Who is this semen sommelier?
Who is this urethra barista?
>>29475976
>Now you are flat-out wrong. AKs are THE MOST WIDELY USED firearm in the world today, by no small measure. There are more AKs out there than all other weapons combined. They are not the latest and greatest, but you have to respect the AK for what it is: The most successful assault rifle of all time.
That has nothing to do with what he said though. The first rifle I purchased for myself was an SLR-107FR, and I find it to be less comfortable, and less functional than my AR. If I want to use my POSP 4x I get a chin weld at best, for example. Yeah the AK family is great for what it's designed for, but it's been surpassed by equipment that isn't 40+ years old. ARs really only became truly popular with the sunset of the 1994 AWB, largely because of sport/competition.
>>29476127
>every AK is an AK-47
You really aren't too bright.
>>29476134
I always get a kick out of this copypasta.
Also, yeah, who is this?
>>29475992
Only 500m in the entire world? I know at least 300m are in the US.
>>29476136
If I'm going to bother with aftermarket, I'll do it with a rifle whose mounts or magazines AREN'T semi-exclusive because the end product is a result of three different countries' work. I'm talking bare-bones here.
>>29476142
girl from totally spies, no?
>>29476054
HK and SIG both have guns that are priced in the same ranges as glock and CZ base models, and CZ and glock have guns priced up with HK and SIG's higher end models. Calling HK or SIG shit richfag guns, or Glock or CZ shit poorfag guns is just wrong.
>>29475744
Caseless will never be a thing.
>>29475725
CZ-P07s are heavily recommended. As are many offerings from Sig, HK, etc. A polymer frame is popular because it's lighter for no real tradeoff.
As for rifle platforms, it's true that the AR dominates the .223 market, but the .308 market is very competitive. Then there are a lot of people who own AK's.
If you think that we need a broader diversity of guns, make one or pitch a concept to a company.
>>29475725
Why is the state of guns so stagnant today?
>I want a pistol
>Get yourself a proven and cheap gun that you will like and will meet all criteria
>My criteria is different and a glock won't do!
>Get [insert other good pistol here]
>I want a rifle
>Get yourself a proven and cheap gun that you will like and will meet all criteria
>My criteria is different and an AR-15 won't do!
>Get [insert other good rifle here]
What the fuck is your problem? As it stands, the gun market is at it's peak if you're willing to look past some of legislation that's been slathered on in the states since the 60s.
>>29475725
Can we have a cool special snowflake gun thread?
I will start:
Aug and Jericho 941
They are both just such good looking guns
>>29475925
Potmetal means zinc, zamak and other things, CZ, by definition, can't be potmetal, because they use steel, aluminum, and plastic, you angry autist.
>>29475952
SPAS is pretty awful, but it looks cool.
Uzi is actually rather dependable, hell, the semi-auto civilian market ones should work fine. The Vector Arms copies are higher quality than the original ones AFAIK
The AK is really varied, and modern variants solve a lot of those issues, compare a v3 AK from 1949 to an Arsenal SAM7-SF made today, world of difference.
>>29475976
>Now you are flat-out wrong. AKs are THE MOST WIDELY USED firearm in the world today, by no small measure.
What a non-sequitur. When Ketenge picks up an AK to defend himself, he does it in spite of its weight, bafflingly short stock and horrid control placement because that AK all he has. Nothing anon said of the AK is wrong, they are not particularly good weapons, just extremely prevalent on account of soviet foreign policy rather than merit of the weapon. If Czechoslovakia had been the main eastern power during the cold war, we would be having AR vs VZ threads, Ketenge would be using a VZ58 and anons would be beating off over these these new hipster "kalashnikovs" because it makes a nice change from the constant VZ threads.
>>29476529
Ketenge is probably malnourished and stunted in growth though, so the manlet length Warsaw Pact stock might just be right for him.
>>29476529
The VZ isn't really better than the AK at all, ask anyone here who served in the Czech Republic.
Like, it isn't a bad rifle (especially as a civilian "Sporter"), but most who used it in the army would rather have an AK instead
>>29476134
You forgot Splooge Scrouge.
>>29475725
Because of firearm regulations. Without absurd hoop jumping, you can't have new automatics, anything over .50 cal, extra grips on pistols, stocks on short barreled weapons, etc.
remember the last big leaps in arms evolution? two world wars. submachine guns, sniper rifles, assault rifles - all of those were very premature and imperfect or existed only as prototypes before 1914. just like progress craves singularity, weapons industry needs new major wars in order to adapt and develop to new doctrines
>>29475791
Are you implying that overcomplicated shit like the P7 or Luger action are remotely good?
>>29475725
It's not though.
That's just the result of a huge amount of shills and idiots who bought into one of a thousand different "reasons" why those guns are "the best" and now they want to as part of it.
Just get some surplus or something DA/SA and steel framed and you'll feel better.
>>29475952
>AKs have shit Ergos and are heavy
No less heavy than a tricked out AR, and the Ergos being bad is an exaggeration by whiny ARfags trying to justify why they don't have an AK and an AR.
>>29477196
Before I sold it, my G-kit build with loaded 20rd mag, Aimpoint Comp M2, Ultimak rail, Surefire G2, wire folder, and donkey dick fore-end weighed something like 10.5lbs IIRC. An AR with the same capability can easily be had for around 8lbs, and going lighter than that isn't too difficult.
Manipulating the safety is pretty shit too compared to an AR.
>>29475791
>Every single semi-auto pistol for sale is now based on the same barrel-slide-frame design with slightly varying dimensions.
Because that works incredibly well, and is economical.
Do you think the Luger is better than a modern design because it's unusual or complex?
>>29477160
"good" is subjective
>>29477196
Yes he does. This is /k/ what the fuck did you expect?
>>29475791
>AUG
Short-stroke gas-piston, rotating bolt with radial locking lugs ala Stoner, the action is literally based on the AR-18, one of the most copied rifles in the western world (I quite fancy the AUG, however).
>Tavor
Long-stroke gas-piston, rotating bolt featuring two large lugs like the AK and Garand.
>SCAR
Short-stroke gas-piston, radial locking lugs like a Stoner, closely based on the AR-18. There is nothing that is mechanically remarkable about the SCAR at all (but it is well made).
You complain about pistols being mechanically similar, yet you list some incredible mechanically conventional rifles.
>>29475952
>Spas 12,
More or else a safe queen that you take out once a while to shoot / look at. Think of it more or else as a classic muscle car that looks awesome but you take out every other sunday to turn heads.
>Uzi
Can't speak of the clones but My 1980's imi works perfect. The weight is not a real issue as it does soak up the recoil (mine is in .45acp) and allows for faster follow up shots. Trigger may be considered heavy by today's standards (not a problem for me as I'm not a trigger snob) I also like the ergos, and the center balance is / was a great feature.
>AK
I'm more of a ARguy myself, but the AK is not that shitty at all. It's just a different animal to the AR
>>29476103
But he didnt.
>>29475725
Import bans and government cancer. That's literally it. Blame Clinton, Reagan, and Obongo the most.
Has anyone tried the Robinson Arms XCR-L? Does it offer anything over the SCAR? The competition-length handguard model looks cool. I think it's a long-stroke piston rifle.
>>29475725
Well shit believe it or not those are thebmost commonly owned guns.parts and accessoriesare widely available at every price range.they are also easy as fuck to maintain.
>>29475952
>AKs are heavy
You do know that the weight of your standard laminate stocked akm is the same if not lower (only by .07lbs) compared to something like a colt 6920? But I'm sure you don't care cause you're only pretending to be retarded
>>29476172
>AK mags are semi exclusive
First off what the fuck does that even mean? If you're implying that they're hard to find then you either have never looked for them or don't know how to use your eyes or a computer. Magpul, promag, tapco, Toth tool, and us palm all make good (well except for promag, but its something) new production us mags, and that says nothing of all the new production foreign or mass amount of perfectly fine and sometimes preferable surplus on the market.
>>29476263
Sam I think?
There's tons of Totally Spies rule 34
>>29475966
>Heavy
>9.3 lbs
Do you even LIFT?
>>29476297
This. You have to get through all sorts of engineering issues to get some tung that isn't much better than conventional cased ammo.
You know what they say op, "there is nothing new under the sun" the only thing we can really hope to do at the present is innovate and upgrade old ideas. That is until hand held rail guns become a thing
>>29475769
>only gun I ever liked from fiction was the Colt Python
>everything went better than expected
>mfw
>>29478807
>Hurr a 10lb rifle isn't heavy
Try carrying it around the woods for 12 hours buddy.
Do you even hunt bro?
>>29478851
>yfw the Python goes untimed
Trooper is better pham
>>29478905
Got me covered senpai
Alex is the best tbqh
Anything not 99.9% reliable = total shit not worth it. Too many gun owners have this mentality.
>>29478816
Polymer cased telescoped is a thing. It's "only" 10% more compact, 40% lighter, and about half the cost of cased ammo.
Red dots were a revolution. Commercialized smart sights will also be a revolution.
>>29478936
you aren't wrong
>tfw no qt brownfu
>>29475725
>I want a pistol
>but I don't want a glock
You don't know what you want. You aren't special. Buy the Glock.
If you want to get ahead of the curve, get an RMR on a carry gun.
>>29478975
>If you want to get ahead of the curve, get an RMR on a carry gun.
spotted the pseudo gun guru ian dickrider
>>29478939
thats true tho....
why would you want a gun that doesn't fire sometimes, that cant used all the brands of the kind of ammo it fires, that cant operate effectively without high maintnance
>>29478975
But I know what I want, I want Jericho-san, but I am 18.
>>29475725
Beause you listen to faggots?
>>29478941
I agree polymer cased ammo could be a useful development, but it is dubious at best. They have problems in fluted chambers and not to mention not absorbing as much heat as a metallic casing so overheating becomes a problem.
Also, the advancement of optics is really a re-treading of old ideas though I guess they are fairly significant developments
>ctrl f
>LSAT
>CCAS
>OSS
>nitride
It's ok. I want my phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range too.
>>29479013
jerichos are shit
>>29479018
>not absorbing as much heat as a metallic casing so overheating becomes a problem
You're so right, yet so wrong.
Overheating is (was, until it was fixed) a problem with caseless.
Polymer doesn't absorb heat well...it's better than that. It insulates the chamber instead of conducting heat, keeping it cooler than with cased ammunition.
>>29478925
Good, take care of your Python, they are treasures.
>>29479037
>Pike
>EXACTO
Nothing wrong with dumb guns, but smart weapons have a shot:kill ratio tens of thousands of times better.
>>29475725
why dont you just get what you want and quit bitching?
>>29478899
> Do you even hunt bro?
> walking around looking for game instead of letting the game come to you
Found the no-huntz
>>29479068
Jericho is fine.
>>29479106
The problem is that he knows what he doesn't want, but doesn't know what he wants.
>I want a car, but not a Honda Civic
>How about a Honda Civic
>I just said I don't want a Civic
>Fine, then get whatever you want
>>29478899
nothing wrong with a 10lb gun. But if that gun is bone stock with no optic, no light, no sling at that weight, then it's a problem. My fully loaded AR is 8.8lbs, not something most people can say.
>>29479075
Oh. That's a better way of looking at it.
Mainstream production/sale when?
>>29479120
jerchio is shit cz knock off.
>>29479111
>walking around looking for game instead of letting the game come to you
Yeah we all don't drive a gator to our bait site and winch our 350lb+ ass into a tree stand Fatboy.
>>29476116
>Ass blasted AR and Glock user detected
>>29479221
Jericho is cz improvment
>>29477799
Nice get but goddamn if you aren't the squarest mafhk on the block
>>29479037
>nitride
This
>durability/corrosion resistance of chrome lining
>very consistent, doesn't affect accuracy
>inherent lubricity actually increases muzzle velocity
I really wanna know of qpqing barrels is the chrome lined killer. It has all the right ingredients
Because modern small arms are actually extremely well optimized for their purpose. There's not a lot of new places to go with them.
>>29475992
Because the commies made that many of them?
>>29475725
Well, almost all the mechanical innovations are a century old so almost everything since then is either related to metallurgy/material composition or powder chemistry.
Baring any major breakthroughs then it's understandable that the market starts to deviate towards what's most cost effective/efficient.
>>29475725
Search for guns/rifles outside your country then anon
>>29478668
>>29476263
>>29476142
>>29476134
Did you guys never watch cartoons when you were younger?
>>29479905
Apparently they didn't
>>29475725
because restrictions and taxes stifle innovation in the US Arms market
we could have a two-round burst 5.56x45 carbine that fires both before the recoil impulse and shooting duplex'ed high explosive AP bullets in a 26" long (or so) package
>>29479561
It is inferior in at least one aspect according to the folks who run the full auto ranges.
I have forgotten the specifics and the source though.
>>29478851
WHERE'S CARRRRL?!?
>>29479561
it doesn't change dimension like chrome lining is why it's better
>>29475725
is that Sam off Totally Spies?
Why aren't you faggots posting best girl? Are you in denial still?
>>29480734
What toonami is she from???
>>29480916
Totally Spies.
>>29480676
>>29480734
>>29481611
>>29480916
>fappingcommences.gif
>>29480734
>>29475725
Significant developments in weapon technology only happens when it has too. That is when you're fighting a war. Then it has to filter down through endless government bureaucracy before it can become available to civilians.
Hence why there hasn't been much new shit since vietnam.
>>29481954
How the fuck does she move her toes like that?
>that sex face
>>29475725
Get whatever you want
Do whatever you want
Be whatever you want
Faggot
>>29477072
>very premature and imperfected
So bullpups? Tiltrotors?
>existed only as prototypes
So PDWs in decent calibers? Exoskeletons? Single-man portable programmable airburst munitions?
What am I missing here?
>>29475725
HURR I WANNA BE A SPECIAl SNOWFLAKE. Buy some gimmicky garbage and have buyers remorse. Its more then you deserve.
>>29475725
You forgot
>I want a shotgun
>here's an 870 clone
>what if I want something that doesnt look so fuddly
>you dont. Here's a 500 lookalike if you want other options
I can't believe SPAS12s aren't made anymore.
>>29480734
Why is Minnie May is a American anime?
>>29476285
So if Rolls Royce released a lower line of cars that cater to the lower $ market and KIA made some sports car that tops out at $100,000, would calling Rolls Royce a richfag car company and KIA a poorfag company be wrong as well?
>>29482612
wouldn't it be true if that last panel, ameriball just said
"I'M THE UN"
>>29483922
i feel that "I AM THE UN" would read better.
>>29475725
>>I want a pistol
>>get yourself a glock
>>but I don't want a glock
Assuming you want a semi auto handgun: CZ75B/ SP01, Walther P99, Beretta 92FS, Browning Hi Power, FN's pistols
>I want a rifle
>get an AR-15
>I want something else
Assuming you want a semi auto: AK, Mini 14/30, G3, FAL, one of the many Bullpups, FN SCAR, ect.
Guess what? Until the next great breakthrough we are kinda stuck with what we got so try some shit out and enjoy it.
>>29475846
you know cz usa exists right? and they are awesome to deal with
I have a fuckload of cz's, I bought a skorpian and fucked it up like a dumbass and they fixed it on the low very quickly. I bought a exeter sig and guess what? Their customer service was the worst shit I've ever had to deal with, worse than guitar center when I was 14 and they were trying to fuck me. I ended up selling the piece of shit for $350 after spending more than that at gunsmiths trying to fix the fucking piece of shit.
>>29486254
the new scorpian evo is what i was talking about.
and the sig was fucked out of the box and not caused by user error. I find it so strange that my german sig is excellent but they managed to fuck it up like CAI would have in 2007
>>29475992
because the soviets made a lot of them and handed them out like candy to every edgelord faggot gook lee harvey like fuck everywhere they could get smugglers to take them in from neighboring countries that were sympathetic or from long range shipments in disguised exports, and then because they LOST a fuckload to arms dealers buying off military officers to report ak's being expended at extreme ass numbers during the confusion of 1991-1992 when the soviet union collapsed and lost eastern europe? You realize they would give you an AK for free if you said you would fight america or capitalism, in one of five variations on that order, right?
