Would the EU countries be able to fight off a Russian invasion without American assistance? Could the combined might of Europe's powers (mainly Britain, France, Germany, Italy, and Poland) stand up to Russia alone?
>>29473277
Russia no longer has the power to do a full scale invasion that large.
>>29473290
True. How about we change the scenario? Russia invades estonia, latvia, lithuania, poland, belarus, and ukraine. All the old soviet states. Donald trump is magically president and we left NATO because Europe didn't pay their 'fair share'. Can the EU take it all back?
Russia can't even conquer half of Ukraine EU is shit and full of pussies but Russia is shit and full of fetal alcohol syndrome freaks
>>29473347
I highly doubt it, as it would be an offensive war on there part and that is unpopular among european countries. If they all magically decided to get together and fight the aggression, then probably.
>>29473277
>Russia doesn't even make it to its own border before running out of money, food, water, and krokodil supplies and its literal everything breaks down
>Europe is too preoccupied promoting tolerance and white female sexual reparations for refugees to even notice
Talk about a fucking cripple fight.
>>29473398
This. Russia's conventional military is almost a joke and their equipment is even more rustfucked than it was in the afghanistan debacle
probably, EU has a lot of special operations personnel who could carry out an insurgency if it came down to it. assassinations and shit. the general population is straight up cucked though so russia probably has a decent chance.
>>29473347
>Russia invades belarus
It's one state, dummkopf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State
Russia aint gonna even remotely touch any EU member state... M.A.D. is still a thing and would get activated if Russia made any serious headway into the EU. France's & UK's arsenal are nothing to scoff at. To top if off, over half the french nukes are at sea at all times in subs, so they cannot be disabled by a pre-emptive strike to disable nuclear capacity.
Your scenario is entirely unlikely. While Russia could make a nice incursion into EU soil, it would stand no chance in prolonged conflict, even if the conflict would be a purely conventional one without nukes. Even without american help, the EU forces are sufficient to draw this into a long term conflict and the EU simply has more industrial capacity and means to produce what is needed.
>>29473277
Pretty much any Invasion Russia does of a Nato/Legitimate Country (IE not Ukraine/Georgia... they could prob get away with K-stan) is going to end in a massive EU response and most likely revival of the Scandinavian Defense Pact. Finland wonder triplets with Sweden/Norway and with the Nordic Battlegroup can easily threaten St Petersburg and any Central European offensive via their Northern Front Access. This means any push into main central Europe is in severe danger of being cut off and enveloped.
There simply isn't the numbers anymore to make a Barbarossa type push across the entire stretch of north/South Europe across multiple countries at a time. This along with changes in mechanized/airborne warfare means more concentrated front's with smaller advances. So again, any real push Russia tries, can be countered/flanked/enveloped by the multiple surrounding countries adjacent to the offensive.
Now another small scale proxy war based off saving Russian "citizens"? Yeah totally plausible as long as main EU has even slightest excuse to not get involved.
>>29473277
Lel Russians should just pose as refugees and infiltrate the EU from Syria.
If Russia forces Europe to start caring about defence spending then they're fucked. Table related.
Baltics No
Poland, Yes with Germany helping
Ukraine, Yes with major help
Finland Yes
Nordics, No unless help from others. Sweden is dead meat
>>29476348
>no idea what I'm talking about: the post
Europe has a bigger population, a far bigger economy, spends more on military and would fight and on its own turf.
Russia would have no chance (as long as Europe stands united).
>>29476373
Explain to me then how Baltics stop Russians?
Or how Poland+Germany+west europe?
Or how Scandinavian militaries are so hot shit that they can stop Russians?
Where am I wrong?
I'm perplexed by whole idea of Russia as a country dying to invade Europe. For what purpose?
>>29476417
Because that is the sublimation of a propaganda-induced desire which permeates Russian society, namely, to repeat the victories of their superhuman Red Army grandfathers.
>>29473398
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/02/03/if-russia-started-a-war-in-the-baltics-nato-would-lose-quickly/
>Americlap cherry picking news and statistics from shitty parts of Russia/EU and then applying them to all of Russia/Europe
>>29476399
If NATO was to be magically disbanded, other nations would still support their neighbors if someone was to attack. And of course the entire "russian logistics are a fucking joke" thing. Good luck to Russia trying to walk through finland, sweden and norway.
>>29476438
It's 21st century, they don't need to walk through anything. Produce strategic strike on EU industrial assets and Europe will surrender in days.
>>29476438
>Would the EU countries be able to fight off a Russian invasion without American assistance?
>If NATO was to be magically disbanded
American reading comprehension.
>>29476438
And that was what I meant originally. Russia can't win proper war against west. What they can win is pinpoint conflicts that are limited and don't spread like wildfire.
Baltics are too weak. They can mount resistance, but can't stop the attack. Baltics have done good things for their militaries, bit require heavy foreign help to stop Russians.
Poland could stop Russians, but they require German help in throwing Russians out of Poland.
Ukraine could mount long term resistance thanks to size of the country, but they would fall without foreign help.
From Scandinavian countries Norway had best chance to stop Russians thanks to good defensive positions in north. Sweden is a joke and Denmark is peacekeeping army.
Finland can stop Russians long enough for Scandinavian help to arrive and to get Russians to peace tables. More likely Russians capture some finnish clay and take too much casualties to push forward.
>>29473277
What are the parties war goals? What are they attempting to accomplish? War doesn't happen by two armies pouring into an octogon until one comes out on top. Logistics is the most important part of this equation.
>>29476487
>Finland can stop Russians long enough for Scandinavian help to arrive and to get Russians to peace tables. More likely Russians capture some finnish clay and take too much casualties to push forward.
Calm your assburgers, it's not 1939.
>>29476428
Seems like sublimation of propaganda-induced American consciousness fed down to ignorant rabble to excuse abysmal defense spending and protracted US military presence in Europe.
>>29476487
>Poland could stop Russians
Kek
>>29476514
Care to explain how that is apparently impossible?
>>29476530
Russia has 700k active personnel and 2 million reservists. Poland has 120k active and 500k reservists. Going with normal 3:1 numerical advantage for attackers would mean at least 1 million men. If more is needed it would strip Russian forces from other areas and from far east weakening defense of those places.
Same for you care to explain why Poland would get steamrolled?
>>29476564
mate, russia don't need to 'steamroll' over poland. not becasue there's nothing of value in your reeking pisshole but hookers and shitcleaners. but simply because that's not how modern wars are being fought. numbers don't mean anything anymore. there won't be any ground campaign or large frontal engagements. it's long-distance, contactless, network-centric. should defense ministry be given task to get rid poland of its military (lol), it will be done overnight with two squadrons of iskanders and bm-31s stationed in kalingrad alone
and it's exactly the same scenario with every country in europe except france and uk
>>29476417
> Georgia
> Ukraine
russia a good boy he dindu nuffin
>>29476433
Well duh, we're on /k/.
>>29474735
>My opinions of Europe are based on generalisations
>Those same generalisations don't apply to Russia though
Idiot.
>>29475989
>M.A.D.....would get activiated....
No, no it wouldn't.
>>29476428
You mean that last occasion when European superpower invaded Russia and destroyed 20mln of its population? And you're telling me this on a board with daily threads about S-400 and trollercoasters like 'whats the best way to invade Russia'. It's pretty obvious Russian doctrine is inherently defensive whereas US/NATO approach is offensive by definiton.
>>29476528
>>29476803
I read Russian newspapers online as a guilty pleasure, but yeah, thank you for telling me how things really stand with Russian propaganda.
>>29476465
*even if
>>29476461
Russians can't take down the entirety of european industry with "strategic strikes". It's pretty robust.
>>29476487
My bad. Thought you said the complete opposite. Sweden would, however, be able to hold their shit well enough provided that they got assistance from the other nordic nations. And the other nordic nations have their shit pretty well together.
>muh vikings stronk maymay
>>29476982
Sweden couldn't stop possible Russian air or sea landing. Swedish Armed forces is about 40-50k strong currently, that number includes active personnel, homeguard and reservists. This force is then divided between all three branches. Norway is in same situation but they have benefit of shorter land border and good defensive locations across the coast. Norway in theory could stop Russian forces going south to Oslo. Denmark doesn't have lasting power. While they have professional military with experience from Afghanistan, their military is geared to peacekeeping and light duties and not conventional war.
Sweden has huge manpower problems. While their inventory on vehicles look good, they cannot operate them all. Air force is also in trouble. They can't properly disperse their planes to roadbases, because number of active planes is low and more importantly base supply and security personnel number is too low.
While Swedish navy is most efficient force of them all, they alone cannot stop Russian landings. Swedish air force has cronic lack of Air to Air missiles, especially AMRAAMs. Their number is somewhere between 150-200 pieces.
Sweden could hold some token resistance, but without NATO boots on ground or conscription, they do not have hope.
>>29477138
Hence:
>support from other nordic nations.
On another note, partial conscription may very well become a thing in sweden again, alongside the regular professional military.
>I want to believe
>>29477237
Well you better hope. Norwegian system would be wonders to your military, but until that happens your military is quite bad.
>>29475989
wow, that looks horendous.
So, fitting of this shit union. UK pls vote to leave, destroy this bullshit organisation
>>29476982
I didn't say "take down the entirety of European industry". I said produce strategic strike. They very much can bring more than enough damage to it.
>>29475999
Should it ever come to actual war you and other 'legitimate countries' will be left shocked and utterly disillusioned how much misplaced reliance you put in NATO and what a hollow paper tiger it really was. One can only ever seek confidence in his own people, industry and resources rather than entrusting national security to deranged lunatics in Washington or senile bureaucrats in Brussels
>>29476660
>Attack Ossetians and peacekeepers
>Get #rekt
Georgia dindu nuffin.
>Shit out half-assed nazi attitude towards Russians in your country
>Fuckton of Russian volunteers go to Ukraine
G-guys, Russia invaded them, r-right?
>>29476660
> Georgia
> Ukraine
Not EU.
>>29473277
They'd take the baltics easily and probably most of Ukraine and Belarus but they would probably be able to only get that in the event of no American intervention. Europe would be less coordinated but I doubt Russia would be able to get more than what I mentioned because the Balts are indefensible and Belarus and Ukraine practically belong to Russia already
>>29477442
>Belarus
RTFM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization
>>29477247
Let's just all pray to Odin that the politicians stop cucking us, this shit needs to end
>>29473277
Yes. Hell, the Poles by themselves could feasibly stop an invasion, but wouldn't likely have the power to push it back. Unified NATO? Hahaha, no.
>Russia gunna in-vade!
>muh freedumbs!!
Top kek this is what americucks actually believe.
>reminder that a significant amount of ameritards vote based on which candidate supports their apocalyptic christfag views on israel the most
>>29479110
This. Americans keep seeing thir army as the world police everyone should worship and no one can do without. Sure, it's a significant ally, but not one that dictates wheter a country can defend themselves or not.
>>29477251
Soon, brother
