Hi /k/
I know it's daytime but I'm curious about something. Hopefully I can call upon Oppenheimer.
EMPs: My work partner thinks EMPs are a scourge of all things electronic and one EMP will wipe us back to the stone age. Which from what I know, isn't entirely true. From what I know,the damage isn't permanent.
Please give me some more info. How viable are EMPs.
>>29457492
Bump for info. I was under the impression that national infrastructure hubs were hardened since like the 70s because of that whole Cold War thing.
I think a lot of complex circuits might get fried though.
>>29457492
Thanks for bringing this up, Jennie. I am also curious.
>>29457714
Thanks for passing this, Frank. Don't forget the coffee tomorrow
>>29457492
It depends. A nuclear EMP will have three components. The first two ( E1 and E2) move very very very very fast. These are the ones that are likely to damage SOME elections. It's doubtful that all will be shorted out.
The third component (E3) is a little slower than the first two. This is the one that could potentially overload the electrical grids as it can persist for longer.
An EMP caused by a solar flare (typically called a geomagnetic storm) will only have the E3 component due to its relatively slow speed.
>>29457747
*electronics. Not elections.
Fuck this phone.
>>29457492
The main threat is to the power grid. Things like cars, computers, cell phones would be largely undamaged.
The power grid would be down for some time, until it could be repaired. In some places this might not be more than a few weeks. Others it might take a year.
>>29457747
We just had a thread about this. I was forced, FORCED, to grudgingly research the subject. Turns out the E3 pulse is a product of the nuclear fireball. Ionizing thingy, and so forth. Upshot is, larger the fireball, larger the E3 pulse. Iirc, duration might also increase.
The E3 pulse is what would heat up powerlines. My understanding is, the lines themselves would heat to the point that the insulation would fail. It's not inconceivable that you could get a lot of spot fires, as well.
All of that damaged wiring would need to be replaced. Thousands of miles of the stuff. It would take a while.
A 300 kt device at 290 km altitude would cause detectable EMP effects over about 1/4 of the US. The area of severe damage would be considerably smaller. I'm basing this on the results of Soviet tests over Kazakhstan in the 60s.
Tl;dr- it would suck, but it wouldn't be anything like in One Second After.
>>29457492
Maybe somebody with more book learning can explain it better, but heres my expierience with it.
Was working as a timber surveyor near some high voltage lines (im talking VERY high voltage). When I extended my surveying tape hooked to my belt more than 50 feet i started getting zapped. I couldnt figure it out until I ran into a power company worker and he told me this:
Magnetic fields can induce a charge on metal, but typically not very much, were talking itty bitty fractions of a volt. But if something has a large surface area its going to be exposed to the field more and generate more charge.
So in an EMP computerized stuff could take enough of a jolt through cables, wires, and antennas to potentially short circuit them. Key words here are COULD and POTENTIALLY.
Lots of stuff would be entireley uneffected due to varying circumstances.
EMP is NOT some magical anti technology wizard curse where everything just shuts off forever. It would wreak havoc, but lots of shit would still be operable.
Not to mention that grounding is
A) pretty effective against EMP damage
B) A standard part of most 1st world infrastructure.
It would cause a lot of problems, but it wouldnt be a civilization destroying thing. Thats just something hollywood likes to drama up to make plots more interesting.
Im guessing your friend read the book "one second after." Its basically just a blatant attempt to make money off of the prepper craze. In it north korea somehow builds dozens of orbit capable EMP missiles and detonates them in orbit. Typical post apocalyptic mayhem ensues as for some reason thousands of people suddenly decide to become mauraudingmaurauding and cannibals within only a few weeks of the power going out, and the main charecter and his quirky prepper neighbors save the rockwellian style hometown by virtue of thier conservative views and being so prepared with thier stockpiles of silver coins and illegally full auto guns they had stashed.
>>29457915
This was pretty good explanation.
>>29457883
Pretty spot on. The main cause of the E3 is the distortion of our magnetic field. It will induce heavy currents in long electrical lines which may cause over heating and spot fires. Also this could damage or even destroy transformers which would take some time to repair.
The real uncertainty is what will happen to society during the down time. There will certainly be looting and a huge spike in crime. People that are dependent on life support systems could die if generators can't keep pace with demand.
Food distribution would also be disrupted and since people tend to not have a reserve supply, there could be riots. The resulting damage to infrastructure could delay repairs which would worsen the situation leading to MORE riots.
So the worst case scenario is a feedback loop that keeps getting worse and worse until a complete collapse of social services may happen. This is not very likely and would only happen in isolated incidences, likely in urban areas with highly concentrated populations.
>>29457915
>>29457883
>>29457747
Fuck yeah, thanks for the explanations. He took the info well.
So summary is. Keep your shit shielded and grounded and that will help greatly in the unlikely event of an EMP.
He's one of these "gubbmint gonna git us, chemtrails, Obama is a gay muslim" conspiracy theorist types.
I dont know why it be likw it is, but it so
>>29457950
A post EMP attack america would more resemble a post soviet-collapse than anything else.
The biggest threat is if it was caused as part of an attack, and china or russia decided to show up halfway through.
Which would still be a pretty dumb move since an EMP wouldnt knock out our nuclear arsenal. Ya know, cuz all that stuff is heavily shielded, grounded, and most of our silos are still analog, partially due to lack of funding going towards digital retrofits, but also cuz the government realized that analog missile silos are already EMP resistant just by nature of being analog.
>>29457915
>When I extended my surveying tape hooked to my belt more than 50 feet i started getting zapped
That's a function of wavelength. Your tape length was getting close to a multiple of the wavelength of the field. Or some shit like that. It was explained to me once by a ham operator.
You could probably use a multimeter to take readings on your tape, figuring out the exact length that gives you the biggest zap. Somebody who knows about this stuff could then use that information to calculate the wind resistance of a human soul, or something.
I'm not positive, but I think that long structures (power line long), would accumulate more charge because of the multiplying effect of multiples of the wavelength. If it's long enough, it could heat up enough to destroy the insulation and cause some fires.
>>29459230
>That's a function of wavelength. Your tape length was getting close to a multiple of the wavelength of the field.
60 Hz has a wavelength of 3100 miles. So, not likely.
However, in strong electric fields, nothing like a wavelength (or fraction thereof) is required to accumulate a significant charge.
>>29457950
>what will happen to society during the down time
The first month would be the worst, then the situation would stabilize. NGs in the affected states would probably mobilize for LE augmentation. NGs in the surrounding states would come in for disaster mitigation, setting up gensets at hospitals and the like.
FEMA would be running the show. You can bet that every major city in the affected area would grow a crop of FEMA camps overnight. Not for sinister reasons, but to simplify logistics. It's easier to feed and police a population if you can concentrate them.
Lesser populated areas will most likely have static provisioning points set up. Chow halls serving T-rats at the upper end, MREs off the back of a truck at the lower. They'll probably try more for the chow hall format, because that helps keep the population nearby.
Camps will probably be free ingress, controlled egress.
Agribiz in the affected zone would probably get significant fuel subsidies. The gov has a vested interest in keeping food production stable.
Rural areas might be pretty much left to their own devices, provided no issues crop up. Maybe daily or weekly overflights, possibly weekly supply convoys to a designated distribution point.
Yes, there would be a spike in crime. It would be quashed hard, either by locals or by responding NGs. The camps will also have a heavy patrol presence. Any kind of unrest or dinduism would be put down with breathtaking speed and brutality. Gov can't afford camp riots, the potential for heavy losses is too high.
The edges of the affected zone will also be patrolled. Expect travel restrictions, with maybe authorized corridors transiting the zone. Last thing anybody needs is a bunch of drifters and hoboes moving in, looking for an easy score.
So, that's my take on it.
