China stealth
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
I thought China was far behind in stealth technology
How come they invent AFSS(Active Frequency Selecting Surface)?
http://arstechnica.co.uk/information-technology/2015/11/chinese-scientists-develop-radar-absorbing-active-stealth-material/
What does this mean for the US military?
plz respond
>>29434254
Amazingly enough, science doesn't care who you are. Who knew?
>Published in a sceientific journal
Top kek. They didn't even think it was worth keeping secret.
How will F-35 fare against Chinese radars?
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/revealed-can-chinas-radars-track-americas-stealth-f-22-15261
>>29434275
This. The fact that it's published means they have something better in the works.
>>29434304
>implying the Chinese don't already have signutatures for about every plane the US currently fields
China is ahead of the US technologically it's now a matter of time before they overtake in terms of military power and GDP.
Gook shill, please.
>>29434327
They aren't ahead technological, they are ahread in the cyber field and in computing. China's most powerful supercomputers are used by their government for security while our fastest are used for scientific purposes. It wasn't so important a few years ago but that importance will grow exponentially.
>>29434304
>nationalinterest
I hate how this meme site is actually taken seriously by fools.
>>29434383
Please refute their claims then
>>29434254
Nothing. this lab stuff has already been done by the US: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/140106-duke-university-creates-perfect-centimeter-scale-invisibility-cloak
>>29434401
>microwave invisibility "cloak"
>comparable to active frequency selective surface
Never go full potato
Stealth technology isnt a problem for China.
Advanced 5th gen engines are.
>>29434254
>http://arstechnica.co.uk/information-technology/2015/11/chinese-scientists-develop-radar-absorbing-active-stealth-material/
Ouch.
Did they really develop this thing? Or was it ripped from B-2 blueprints?
>>29434448
That's just one example of 3D microwave (radar) cloaking that was demonstrated several years ago; Google "microwave metamaterial cloak" and you'll find various others.
The fact however that US research has gone quieter the past few years, the same time that 6th gen conceptual development has begun to ramp up indicates that there's more advanced developments happening in the black world.
>>29434496
Forgot to add; while research has gone quieter, it's done so in terms of real-world testing; there's still plenty of papers coming out on wideband 3D cloaking and manipulation.
>>29434485
>B-2
B-2s stealth technology is pretty old school, actually.
>>29434254
They are.
SRRs (Split-ring resonators) has been in devlopment for a loooooong time in the west, and is theorized to be used on the b-2 (it may be how they "stealth up")
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-ring_resonator
Another example of china reinventing the wheel.
>>29434254
They have spent 20 years and a shitload of money to get it. Plus espionage and the fact they bought pieces of the F-117 in 1999.
Now they just need an indigenous engine.
>>29434535
If no one sells it, you have to make it.
>>29434535
Except it is not.
Even though it is clearly based on the basic idea of the split ring resonator, it is quite a bit more advanced.
The AFSS is dynamic and adaptive. This means that the same materials can be tuned to face different radar bands, high and low.
>In testing, the researchers found that their prototype AFSS was able to tune itself to absorb radio frequencies ranging from 0.7 to 1.9GHz, reducing reflectivity by anywhere from 10 to 40dB. "As radar detection equipment continues to improve, our thin absorbers with broad bandwidth and working in the UHF band will be widely useful," the researchers concluded.
E-2D is getting BTFO
>>29434496
>>29434506
Actually, I am OP and the same who posted
>>29434448
>>29434304
It's actually me just trying to find arguments to counter some slavaboo chinkshit thinking China and Russia are way more technologically advanced than US now and used those links
>>29434395
Different anon here. You're using a blog as a citeable source. The refutation is in the source. It's Facebook science.
>>29434485
It's the old Iron Ball-style stealth coating, revisited. It can't be retrofitted to existing aircraft due to weight and bulk issues. It's a composite, about 1/3 inch thick, that has to be applied to the skin of the aircraft.
It's got interesting possibilities, but it'll take a quarter century of development to field it in useful form. Most likely it'll be dropped, for the same reason Iron Ball was dropped- it makes planes too heavy to fly.
>>29434707
>The AFSS is dynamic and adaptive.
SSRs are by default dynamic and adaptive, they have to be to you know, fucking work.
AFSS might have more range and Db bandwidth, but thats expected when we are talking about an continuation of 30 year old tech.
>>29434712
>.7 to 1.9 GHz
This is actually very small, and only covers a small range of the upper UHF band and the lower L band.
The APY-9 due to its AESA nature will cover pretty much all of the UHF band. The
The E-2D is beyond fine. The old E-2C group 0, if the us still has some kicking around, with the APS-138 radar would be fine as well, as it operates around the 425 MHz band of the UHF (according to Chinese documents obtained by the DOD) and is not covered by these SSR's.
Document in question.
www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA302748
Take note that while old, the DOD decided to release it, which points to there being a fair amount of guesswork in it from the Chinese and might not be totally accurate. However, its the best we got regarding top secret shit.
>>29435231
Also interesting is the chinese think the older E-2C can track an A-6 intruder at sea level (a fighter sized target) from about 400 km away, which is pretty damn good, considering the stated range is about that, and everyone thought that was with the target being a strategic bomber sized at altitude.
>>29435167
>8mm at its thickest
>too heavy
Try again. China will dominate the skies
All this talk of big bad China.
Am I the only one who thinks China is just going to fall into the "Middle Income Trap" and be stuck there forever?
China will never reform enough to get out of it.
>>29434254
>I thought China was far behind in stealth technology
China (and also Russia for that matter) has a lot of skilled scientists, particularly theoreticians. Their main problem is lack of access to high tech, which a few years ago included fast computers.
biggest problem for the US and allies is that China basically emptied Lockheed Martin for military secrets relating to F-35 and possibly F-22. Thus they can build on classified US tech and continue from that. Add also pieces of the stealth fighter that was shot down.
>>29436192
>Am I the only one who thinks China is just going to fall into the "Middle Income Trap" and be stuck there forever?
To understand where China is going you have to understand that the Chinese leaders are not responsible or answerable to the Chinese people. They also know that the next emperor (metaphorically speaking) "always arrives on horseback" - meaning he comes from the military. That could explain a lot of why CN navy is building all these islands.
>China will never reform enough to get out of it.
The leaders want no reform, they are happy with things as they are, though perhaps they lust for Taiwan. And other smaller neighbours.
>>29436192
Middle income trap appears when you are completely reliant on export and manufacturing, with no technology and sitting in the lowest level of the value chain forever. South America was such a case, that fell into the trap when their wages rose to middle income level and all foreign investments and manufacturing companies withdrew due to the end of cheap labour, completely wrecking their economies by losing their main drivers of growth.
China's clearly not such an economy, as it is more reliant on investments and services, with manufacturing/exports now only contributing less than half of their GDP. While investments themselves are quite risky, since the economy could be endangered by bubbles, the middle income trap isnt an pitfall along this growth-model's road: A debt-fueled recession is.
Also, China is rapidly climbing the value chain themselves and their manufacturing is no longer reliant on their cheap labour anymore. FDI is rapidly sinking in China (as the govt. is kicking out western companies en masse), but instead Chinese brands are gaining supremacy in their domestic market. They are reforming enough to become a consumer economy.
>>29436368
How soon will we see Chinese automobiles competing against the big 3 and EU/Blue Dragons imports?
>>29436368
But China has a mountain of debt. It bears a resemblance to America's before the Great Recession hit.
Even if China's government intervenes to prevent such a collapse again, it will take on yet another massive amount of debt in the process.
>>29436271
>China basically emptied Lockheed Martin for military secrets relating to F-35 and possibly F-22.
This is a huge misnomer and not true. They got far less than people give them credit for.
>>29436368
>FDI is rapidly sinking in China (as the govt. is kicking out western companies en masse), but instead Chinese brands are gaining supremacy in their domestic market.
There is nothing wrong with FDI, America has alot of it. The issue is when your domestic population cant afford the products they are making, which is 100% true in china. The Chinese brands are gaining ground in china becuase the cheap knockoffs are more accessible to their populace. However, the people are cognizant of that (the iphone craze, a Chinese designed and branded phone will never top that in china as the high class, top tier phone).
China has a massive, massive underclass that they need to put into middle class before they become a consumer/service economy.
>>29436449
The issue is also CAN china step in again, without it cracking.
The problem with having socialist control over your market is investors are scared of having their investments gobbled up by the state and effectively having no control on their return.
>>29436497
They also have to deal with their absurdly bloated steel sector, which is in meltdown.
This is in turn will inevitably lead to massive layoffs, fueling social unrest. It's either that, or taking on massive debt to prop up zombie steel companies.
China is opting for spending fucktons of money instead of hard reforms, and this is fueling enormous amounts of debt.
It can't go on forever.
>>29436508
In theory, it could. But it would show China has lost the ability to really reform itself, trapping it in middle-income status.
And what is worse is that every time China intervenes, it would probably take on even more debt than the last time.
This is why I'm no longer scared of China becoming some sort of superpower. I'm scared of everyone else's dependence on China as "the world's factory".
>>29436520
>It can't go on forever.
Its funny, because with their billion populace, if the habbining truly does happen, if a Chinese great depression does happen....then what?
What are the city workers going to do?
I mean, how will they be fed, both the monetary cost, and the actual logistics of it. Throw in a bad harvest and you got yourself a charity case of a nation.
During the US great depression the US had a mostly rural population that could be somewhat self reliant. The Rural population, while large in china, is dwarfed by the urbanites.
>>29436543
>I'm scared of everyone else's dependence on China as "the world's factory".
Oh, the entirety of south east asia is ripe for making things. Im not worried about that, there is plenty of cheap labor in the world.
>>29436545
If China meltdowns to that level, it will bring down the government.
The security apparatus won't back a party that can no longer feed it.
>>29436449
>But China has a mountain of debt.
No
>>29436497
>(the iphone craze, a Chinese designed and branded phone will never top that in china as the high class, top tier phone).
They do though.
In fact China's consumer electronics companies are growing at an extremly fast pace.
>>29436589
>They do though.
Im talking in perspective from buyers.
They have more sales in china because they are massively cheaper and affordable. But the people buying it are well aware of what the "real deal" is, so to speak.
They compare everything in price to an iphone. Its unreal.
So while they make high end stuff for the world, they cant afford said stuff, so its effectivly wasted investment for china beyond the primary economic gain of paid workers and what not. There is no real secondary market based upon the products like, for example, the US has.
>>29436573
It does. It was created when the Chinese government spent its way out of the Great Recession. That massive stimulus package came with a price.
It will almost certainly take on more to prop up its bloated steel sector.
>>29434327
>>29434254
>29434254
>>29436573
>50 cents has been deposited into your bank account
>>29436643
If you factor in local government debt and shadow banking loans too, it adds up to:
5,383,248,281,451 QUADRILLION dollars.
>>29436643
>>29436679
>that bullshit
>>29436687
If it's any consolation, it's only 65.29% of their GDP. Not quite three-fourths yet.
Love /k/ & economics.
>China will fall
>and any recession in China will lead to famine and the return to bronze age China.
>>29436723
Economy is maybe the only field /k/ knows less than about weapons.
>>29436707
And America is still worse. 19,148,014,055,608 quadrillion dollars, at 106 percent of GDP.
>>29436755
Neither China's nor American's debt is mentionworthy either domestic owned or low interest.
>>29436589
Do you ever think we will evntually hit the point where our children think chink made stuff is awesome but we still assume it's shit? Kind of like how our parents thought Japanese made stuff is crap but our generation is all about it?
>>29436545
Actually a huge proportion of the urban population are rural migrants. They all have a farm to go back to if SHTF. Of course all of them would swap that plot of land for urban citizenship in a heartbeat, if given the chance.
>>29436460
>They got far less than people give them credit for.
How do you know?
It is not as if L-M would break down and confess up front that they were had through and through.
Media was unusually clear about how it was done, through a compromised RSA key that basically opened up the lot. And a great party was had. By China.
>>29436681
Again, chinese are not chooseing domesitic makers because they are competitive with apple, they are chooseing the apple clones because they cant afford the real thing.
>>29436777
That may have been true in the 80s or 90s but not true today. The new genoration is thoughly gentrified to city life. Hell, on a logical level that makes no sense. china is a big place, but not so big that every swinging dick in the city has a farm to go back to.
>>29436775
Not for a long, long time. And massive corruption in China is what will hold them back. The tainted milk scandal (and tainted quite a lot, including toys) shows how deep the corruption goes.
Japan had a totally different story, they were bombed to pieces in the war and tried to build with what they had. Read the Sony history to see how crazy it was. The Japanese strength is a total resistance to the not-invented-here-syndrome. They realised their shortcomings and knew how to fix it. And that they did, ref. Deming, Juran and more.
China and Japan are far more different than most westerners realise.
>>29436857
>How do you know?
Dod released the exact nature of the leak and what was lost.
It was the f-35s electical system and parts of the radar system. Its alot, but its not as if they download the "entire plane". A lot of people forget the f-35 is an export fighter, and was going into the wild anyways.
The F-22 is reletively untouced.
>>29436881
You can repeat it so often you want it doesn't make it true.
>>29436918
So they are willingly choosing inferior clones of iphones. ..than the real thing...
Yeaaah. Ok buddy.
UHF radars have to stay on. If you try to use one to detect a 35 or 22. You will end up eating an anti rad missile.
>>29436775
>Do you ever think we will evntually hit the point where our children think chink made stuff is awesome but we still assume it's shit?
So like today?
>>29436930
You can also use the term inferior so often you want it doesn't make support your statement.
Because you are such an expert for the Chinese market you would know that the Chinese market has all kinds of specific needs and app culture which is only be covered by the Chinese companies.
>>29436960
>UHF
>anti-radar missile
That sensor on a missile do I want to see.
>>29436966
>Because you are such an expert for the Chinese market you would know that the Chinese market has all kinds of specific needs
Yes, a phone they can actually afford
>app culture which is only be covered by the Chinese companies.
Which have plenty of IOS offerings and that silly proprietary fork of android they use becaise the goverment is assmad at google.
Its inferior hardware, this is unquestioned. Do you want to go into that
>>29437020
>repeating
>>29436895
I don't even think China has a survivalist movement. What will they do if the economy collapses, and the government with it?
I predict a massive refugee crisis.
>>29437065
Lel, again, they are willingly chooseing iphone clones....instead of the iphone.
That cuck lei has even cloned himself after jobs.
all this shit about worrying about nothing because of eventual chinese collapse is retarded
counting on your opposition to fail is a stupid defense policy
>>29437141
>>29437141
That implies they stand a chance against the US or you think we are all Vietnamese and Phillipinos.
>>29436914
>Dod released the exact nature of the leak and what was lost.
Sure. And we can trust them, right? After all there is export thing, right? We sure don't want to worry those NATO foo ... erm... "allies"
>It was the f-35s electical system and parts of the radar system. Its alot, but its not as if they download the "entire plane".
OK, so the top secret fuse wiring diagram was lot. And that is practically all. Yes. And only PARTS of the radar. Humm. If the F-35 is to remain stealthy also when firing up the radar it would have to be rather clever and certainly not a thing you want to lose all information on.
> A lot of people forget the f-35 is an export fighter, and was going into the wild anyways.
Sure. exporting to "allies" to shake'm down for dosh. And now that the Chinese has the blueprints it will be extra fun as long as you have F-22, right? Right?
>The F-22 is reletively untouced.
I like the use of the word "relatively".
Standard OP in secrecy: if there is doubt then there is no doubt. The entire project should be considered totally compromised from now on. Anything else will be mindblowingly stupid. Just about the only thing that could top this is if L-M had outsourced some of the development to China.
>>29437141
Doesn't mean China isn't going to collapse. Russia is weak, China is weak. No matter how much they try to fool us into thinking they're not.
Debt, social unrest, corruption and inability to carry about real reforms will kill China.
Corruption, oil dependence, and demographics will kill Russia.
Russia-Strong? China-Superpower?
Give me a break.
>>29437180
And of course Russia isn't going to reform either.
>>29436979
>>UHF
>>anti-radar missile
>That sensor on a missile do I want to see.
UHF is 300 - 3000 MHZ, or 1 m - 10 cm wavelength. Use a quarter wave for parts of the band so you need just 4 or 8 whips that are 25 cm each.
These will be embedded in the fins and strakes of the missiles and not immediately apparent.
>>29437177
>And we can trust them, right?
More than we trust the end of the worlders.
>If the F-35 is to remain stealthy also when firing up the radar it would have to be rather clever and certainly not a thing you want to lose all information on.
Of course. The leak was damageing.
>Sure. exporting to "allies" to shake'm down for dosh.
You imply the f-35 is currently not the best multirole on the market, or that there is no competition, or that the f-35 is the only offering from the US. Silly, and ignorant.
>And now that the Chinese has the blueprints it will be extra fun as long as you have F-22, right? Right?
Its not the deathstar. Its not like there is a secret deathly weakness to exploit even if they got litterally everything (which again. They did not).
>The entire project should be considered totally compromised from now on.
The moment it was considered for export is the moment it could be considered compromised.
>Just about the only thing that could top this is if L-M had outsourced some of the development to China.
Lel, hysteria much?
>>29437204
Military UHF is 300 to 1000 MHz.
Everything else is lettered.
>>29434496
From my friend that worked at Northrup on the NGAD a bit
>Here's the deal with 6th gen. They're going to be extremely capable, much more than you think of now, but there's going to be fewer of them than any other gen. If China or Russia really wanted to counter them, they'd just make a ton of 4th gen fighters and be done with it and overwhelm everyone else, but they won't because for them it's not about winning, it's about the prestige of having such airframes, even if they're direct copies. Right now they're more interested in appearances than building a credible force, if they were they'd put far more resources into training.
Take it with a grain of salt
>>29436755
>quadrillion
You keep using this word.
It doesn't mean what you think it does.
>>29436881
t. Macfag
>>29437366
Fuuuuck no.
Im posting on an S5 sport right now. I think apple (and foxconn) makes low tier phones to hipsters at a high price. Its just that domestic chinese phones cant match even that.
>>29437229
>>And we can trust them, right?
>More than we trust the end of the worlders.
That does not say much.
>>If the F-35 is to remain stealthy also when firing up the radar it would have to be rather clever and certainly not a thing you want to lose all information on.
>Of course. The leak was damageing.
Good to see we can agree.
>>Sure. exporting to "allies" to shake'm down for dosh.
>You imply the f-35 is currently not the best multirole on the market, or that there is no competition, or that the f-35 is the only offering from the US. Silly, and ignorant.
Quite wrong. I made no assumptions on capabilities. The US has applied a LOT of political pressure to export F-35 no matter what. It is now so hugely expensive that the US sure wants some money recouped.
>>And now that the Chinese has the blueprints it will be extra fun as long as you have F-22, right? Right?
>Its not the deathstar. Its not like there is a secret deathly weakness to exploit even if they got litterally everything (which again. They did not).
I am sure RSA also were confident there were no weaknesses. And that is what everyone says until they get an unwelcome surprise.
>>The entire project should be considered totally compromised from now on.
>The moment it was considered for export is the moment it could be considered compromised.
Funny thing is, the US never said much about what is inside F-35 and instead served up quips that just point and shoot and never mind the rest. I used to work in the defense business and was involved in offset contract negotiations. We got nowhere. And now the Chinese possibly knows more than we were allowed to know.
>>Just about the only thing that could top this is if L-M had outsourced some of the development to China.
>Lel, hysteria much?
Way up in the sky flies a little bird called "metaphor".
>>29435687
Ok, genius. Go ahead and retrofit China's existing air fleet, covering every square inch of skin with this wonder composite. Now go back and rebuild all of the control surfaces to account for the interferences.
And then lets talk about the weight. FR4 alone is pretty heavy stuff. Almost 2g per cc. It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to assume that the honeycomb and copper/semiconductor substrates, along with the FR4, will add weight to the tune of 3 g per square cm.
That's a weight penalty of at least 2 tons for just about every fighter in the Chinese inventory. Like I said, too heavy to fly.
>>29437387
S4 myself
I for one welcome our new gook overlords
>>29437432
>It is now so hugely expensive that the US sure wants some money recouped.
This is silly if you look at the actual growth of the system. Its been wobbleing between the upper 800bn and a trillion over 50 years. Its not like anything changed, it was an export bird from its very inception.
>I am sure RSA also were confident there were no weaknesses
Did you seriously compare cyber security to an airframe and pretended they were relateable in any way? Or are you stateing there IS a deathstar like weakness? In short, what's your point.
>Funny thing is, the US never said much about what is inside F-35 and instead served up quips that just point and shoot and never mind the rest.
Thats retarded, and blatently false. Many tier one countrys were directly invovled with its devolpment.
>And now the Chinese possibly knows more than we were allowed to know.
We, as civilians? Yes, more than likely, and the reverse is true. You pretend like this is some new thing. Goverments know alot about each other.
>Way up in the sky flies a little bird called "metaphor".
Hyperbole is the word you are looking for.
>>29437465
Koreans make good shit.
S5 sport is waterproof up to meters, shock proof, dust proof, and it has gorllia glass and the metal caseing extends beyond the screen like a lip to take abuse.
Had it for a while now, no case, no problems.
>>29436737
Naw, you're overlooking women. To /k/, women are one of the great mysteries of the universe.
In that regard, your average neckbeard /k/ommando and your average Chink have a lot in common- they'll live and die as kissless virgins.
>>29437620
>the average chinese citizen is on par with the average /k/ommando.
So china is less than zero threat. Nailed it.
>>29436497
> The issue is when your domestic population cant afford the products they are making, which is 100% true in china.
This is not true.
Go to China. People there in the cities (which are 20+ million by average) are extreme consumers and buy expensive shit as if it was rice cookies.
>>29436881
Xiaomi is objectively better than Apple.
t.Xiaomi Note user
>>29436775
It's interesting how the process goes. Postwar Jap stuff was about China tier. Jokes were made. Then it shifted to Taiwan. Then South Korea. Now it's China's turn in the barrel. They've got a lot more bureaucratic inertia to overcome before they can start turning up the quality. Figure, in another century Harbor Freight will be comparable to Snap-On of 20 years ago.
>>29436520
China has already lay off 1.8 million steel workers.
The state is paying them compensation and retraining as we speak.
No biggie.
Back in the 90s during Zhu Rongji's premiership, China laid off 30 million state-workers. Also no social unrest.
Chinese people are productive and clever and will search new ways to make money. They arent like American niggers who just sit there doing crime and waiting for handout and dem programs.
>>29436895
objectively unrute.
Rural Hukou nowadays is more worth than urban Hukou.
>>29436775
It is already.
Clothes made in China are objectively belonging to the higher-tier of quality compared to the Bangladesh and Vietnam made stuff. And Chinese electronic stuff is also quite top notch today - but not much cheaper than produced in Japan or South Korea. Everything depends on price. China's manufacturing has a big range, from the cheapest to the most expensive.
Funny how the West hopes that China will crash because of unspecified and ideologically fueled assumptions of certain "contradictions" and "fault", just because it is nominally a commie country. Every slight slump in economic growth will be blown out of propotions to predict the inminent downfall and crash.
All wishful thinking of butthurt westeners and more butthurt people of certain south-east asian monkey states.
China due to its size, its mature industries and the economic/financial autonomy protected by an authoritarian state that is not subject to any American influence-taking NGO/lobby group, is more resilient than that.
China survived absolute shitfests like the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution easily. It will also survive jewish-made economic and financial attacks. Like the recent attempt by Soros to short the Yuan (and failing), delivering one uppercut against the hedgefund jews after another and rendering their fortunes worthless:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-13/china-burns-hedge-funds-as-562-million-yuan-bet-turns-worthless
>China Burns Hedge Funds as $562 Million Yuan Bet Turns Worthless
>>29437709
There was no unrest because they knew the price of dissenting, and it was fresh.
>>29437828
>that is not subject to any American influence-taking NGO/lobby group, is more resilient than that.
>he thinks that his brand of corruption is better
Kek
>>29437720
Its not about worth, but numbers.
>>29437499
>This is silly if you look at the actual growth of the system. Its been wobbleing between the upper 800bn and a trillion over 50 years. Its not like anything changed, it was an export bird from its very inception.
What changed is that the offset agreements didn't materialize.
>Did you seriously compare cyber security to an airframe and pretended they were relateable in any way?
No, I did not. Please read again. Carefully this time. My point is that this is a question if the weakest link. The Chinese, like in any infiltration, needed just one entry to get in, and that they did. Faulty cyber security allowed them to slip in. If there is what you called a Death Star weakness I do not know but no such drama is required to gain an advantage in battle. You might want to dial down the hysterics like "Death Star". Please, try to be a bit sober about this. Even on Persian basket weaving boards like this.
> Or are you stateing there IS a deathstar like weakness? In short, what's your point.
My point is that the Chinese got to know too much. We have seen all sorts of weaknesses in the past like real time taps from cameras (Israeli fighters, drones etc). There are probably some weaknesses. GAO is not impressed with software readyness or quality.
>>Funny thing is, the US never said much about what is inside F-35 and instead served up quips that just point and shoot and never mind the rest.
>Thats retarded, and blatently false. Many tier one countrys were directly invovled with its devolpment.
Yeah, like making parts of a wing or wheel assembly etc. No core tech like radar, signalling, ESM etc.
>We, as civilians? Yes, more than likely, and the reverse is true. You pretend like this is some new thing. Goverments know alot about each other.
Without access to software it is hard for foreign countries to integrate own weapon systems. And L-M is stalling all the way.
>>29436192
The middle-income trap is around $15,000 dollars per capita right now (think Argentina, Malaysia, Russia, Brazil).
So China still has some natural growth to go before it gets there. About 5-10 years.
>>29434474
Damn those wings look neat
>>29436449
Here's something that shows how wrong this argument is. Straight from the Bloomberg Intelligence unit.
China has these huge SOE's that are essentially companies meant to promote public good, and so they aren't as profitable. They get cheap loans from state banks.
The benefit China has is that it has a large trade surplus, they are huge savers (even to a bad long-term extent), and if push comes to shove the government can just declare SOE debts null and invalid.
So China can take on more absolute debt, as long as its not from foreigners.
>>29434254
>according to Chinese state media
suuurrreeee
>>29436508
Which explains why they got $4 trillion in FDI since 1980?
China's corruption and state "socialism" supports companies. It's a weird, but highly successful system.
>>29434474
Is that why all of their stealth aircraft can be seen on radar?
>>29436520
They just laid of 1.8 million steel workers, 3 million coal workers, and 300,000 PLA "support" members.
They liberalized their currency regime, have liberalized interest rates, have made 30 Free trade agreements, and have freed up offerings of IPO's and equity.
t. Masters in Economics who happens to have sexual attraction to M-14's
>>29436643
98% of China's debt is domestic. About 90% of that is state-owned or financed.
Guess what happens when more than just a few companies go bankrupt?
>"Hey, Chang Wong Fang, the Steel company doesn't owe your bank anymore. Your performance review is coming up in a week, keep that in mind."
>>29436775
It already is.
My parents think Chinese stuff is crap, and then we go and buy made-in-China stuff every day.
China has a 12 trillion dollar economy for a reason. They make shit we're willing to buy better than other people.
>>29436895
China has 600 million migrant workers.
Ask yourself where they came from.
>>29437180
Which explains why they are both getting their way?
Power has three components
Absolute power
Tactical use of that power
Will to use that power
Under Obama we have been cutting the first, subpar on the second, and failing on the third.
>>29438493
It's a risky move in the face of rising labor unrest.
>>29437620
What's funny is that since China has so many prostitutes from ASEAN and there are no restrictions on them, they are actually one of the least "virgin" nations.
>>29437640
I'd say pissed off sexually deprived Chinks are scarier desu.
>>29438613
China has a massive gender balance. Way too many males, not enough women.
>OP posts pic of plane and link to /k/ shit
>thread is about muh economy
Can someone post the classic /k/ image where the one guy interrupts with "AS IF THE JEWS WOULD BLA BLA".
>>29438416
>What changed is that the offset agreements didn't materialize.
Wut. The only one that didnt was the canuk and they were not even a tier one partner. Chances are they will pick it anyways in the next competition.
>No, I did not. Please read again. Carefully this time. My point is that this is a question if the weakest link. The Chinese, like in any infiltration, needed just one entry to get in, and that they did. Faulty cyber security allowed them to slip in. If there is what you called a Death Star weakness I do not know but no such drama is required to gain an advantage in battle.
Ok, word salad aside, how would knowlege of the layout of the electrical signal gain an advantage?
Hell, how would full operational knowledge of the radar (something they did not get), give you a realistic advantage?
>My point is that the Chinese got to know too much.
About an export fighter? Seriously?
>No core tech like radar, signalling, ESM etc.
Britan and BAE is heavily involved, for one.
>Without access to software it is hard for foreign countries to integrate own weapon systems. And L-M is stalling all the way.
No they are not, is this a joke? UK is integrating as we speak.
>>29438598
You should have seen the late 90's then.
They had riots all throughout Guangzhou killing african workers and ASEAN workers who were competing with them.
A lot of China-bears were predicting a collapse of China, but then China grew 10% per year the next decade.
Anyone who bets China is going to collapse in the short term is naive. The CCP has been planning for years to stave off all forms of collapse. They reform when they need to. They spend when they need to. They kill when they need to.
Betting against China's growth has been a losing bet since 1979. The country is gonna slowdown, and they may have a recession in the future, but everyone ignores how poor China still is. They still have a long time until they reach the technology frontier.
A fucking donkey could run China and probably still get some growth.
Oh, and back to the point, Chinks do labor protests because it's the one area they have true power. The government likes to keep people happy. In the 90's they had far more. Expect to see even more in the next few years.
>>29434254
Hi, I see you discovered active cancellation. Good job.
>>29438648
It's as bad as India's, or much of the world in 1945.
China's gender inbalance is overblown. There's OFFICIALLY 20 million Chinese guys in the 10-30 age group.
What people forget is the one child policy and Hukuo restrictions.
When China allowed people to announce a second child recently, they "added" 2 million women and 1 million guys. Many more do not declare themselves on the census because of fears of retroactive punishment on parents (up to $40,000 per child).
So the gender imbalance is probably closer to 10 million. If a Chinese guy wants some pussy or a wife, head south or to Africa. Many already do.
>>29438722
20 million more*
>>29438650
My fault. I just finished my masters in Economics and "/k/ economics" triggers me way too much.
It's like getting mad at the sky for being blue.
>>29438769
You mean .50¥
We don't get paid so much per post.
>>29436613
Granted, Lenovo bought the ThinkPad line from IBM when IBM got out of consumer level computers in favor of servers.
But they had been making them for years and they're still the best laptop available, which has earned then an excellent reputation and following outside of China. I think if things don't go terribly wrong in the next fifteen to twenty years, we'll see some Chinese brands start to compete with top of the line brands. I'm sure nobody expected Sony or Samsung to be as big as they are, either.
>>29436613
There's almost 200 million Chinese who own iphones.
They can afford the expensive shit.
They have a $6 trillion consumer market that has increased $500 billion a year the last four years.
Your theory may have applied in 2006, but IT'S 2016.
>>29438722
>african women
I'd rather stay virgin tbqh
>>29437828
Fuck off chink/pol/
Go jerk off to your shit tier plastic chingchong girls
Chinks are uglier and just as brown as SEAsians
>>29439017
wew lad
>>29438901
Nobody is questioning the top 20% bruh, its the huuuuge gap to the bottom, the masses of poors.
Their consumer sector is increasing, but not as much as the government would hope for, there is still empty citys and malls that did not get filled.
>>29438169
It was effective then and will be effective again now.
>>29439428
Whats "it".
The protests or the way the government crushed it?
>>29434327
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>29434304
Still can't track an aurora class. And yes they do exist.
>>29435687
Wow your dumb.
>>29439609
You're*
>>29434254
> China publishes developing secret system
> publishes
> secret
God damn it, OP.
China will probably get old and fat before it gets rich.
The number of senior citizens are growing, as is the obesity rate.
>>29439689
>chinklards
They also has small benis XDDDF
