YOU KNOW IT'S COMING EVENTUALLY.
NOBODY IS READY FOR THIS SHIT.
>>29412237
No it's not
>>29412237
>making this thread again
Giving brown people the internet will go down in history as one of the greatest mistakes of the 21st century
>>29412286
No that would still be giving Straya internet
>>29412237
Literally read David Kilcullen.
Out of the Mountains is all about future types of conflicts in urban littoral megacities.
Look up the Mumbai Raids of 2008.
More people have access to cellphones than toilets in Somalia.
>>29412270
WARS ARE FOUGHT WHERE PEOPLE LIVE.
PEOPLE LIVE IN CITIES.
Stalingrad was a surprise too.
>>29412303
>Australians
>white
Just like the japs were honorary aryans, shitposters are honorary shitskins
>>29412237
>implying we wont just level city blocks so the tanks can move up without getting fucked six ways to sunday by atgm fire.
>>29412369
Congratulations you just turned cover and broken terrain into even more cover and brokener terrain.
>>29412369
Here's your (you)
>>29412303
>No that would still be giving Straya internet
We don't have internet, we have the semblance of it.
>>29412286
Seriously internet is getting shit because of 3rd worlders and BRICS-countries. Before a viral video would like few hundred thousand views, then a maxinum of million. Nowadays stupid clickbaits get 40 million views on facebook in a couple of days and generally 200-300 million on youtube.
Everything is getting dumbed down because massive amount of dumb people from developing countries.
Online games are full of Yuan163682929 and tech forums of 12 year old Abu Shengalis.
>>29412237
Helicopters and night ops. that's about the only thing you can do
>>29412418
Hell, it's an oft ignored contributor to 4chan's nosedive in quality and the rise in shitposting. /b/'s obviously been the worst hit but you can see it on /k/ with the uptake in slavposting and the entire middle eastern general
segregate the internet 2016
>>29412461
>>29412418
Of course, where do you think all of the 110% retarded youtube comments come from?
>>29412237
Doesn't really matter because ground war/infantry is obsolete.
>>29412461
And all that is from the plebs who are smart enough to learn enough English to get by.
Imagine how mind-numbingly retarded a similar forum would be in their native languages.
>>29412578
Remember anon, you asked for this
http://pakguns.com/
>>29412369
Thats what the Germans thought when entering Stalingrad.
Destroying buildings will only turn them into hyper-foxholes and fill the streets with rubble, denying or limiting access towards the inner parts of the city by vehicles and making life that much more harder for your infantry by not having tanks at their side for cover and direct fire support.
>>29412600
That wasn't as bad as I feared.
>>29412303
>>29412660
On the surface, it's fairly respectable but the deeper you delve the thicker the retardation becomes
>>29412667
for example, this gem
http://www.pakguns.com/showthread.php?13866-Why-not-use-pistol-bullets-in-rifles
>>29412369
In that environment, burning the enemy is more effective than bombing them.
>>29412675
>Also i need suggestions on how to dispose of my neighbors parrot
>>29412675
>Also i need suggestions on how to dispose of my neighbors parrot. Its a massively ugly and loud green thing that goes on a screeching and wailing trip every 15 minutes.
Current ideas are to 1.) shoot it with airgun. 2.) leave its door open so alley cats can get it.
>>29412418
Most people from BRICS countries are busy...being in the internetverse of their own linguistic groups.
There's actually a big internet scene the Engrish speaking world is missing out on because they cant into large as fuck languages such as Spanish/Slavic Groupage/ and Chinese.
A thread on Dank Chinese Memes in Chinkspace on /int/ showed this.
>>29412704
>le pol git out meme
>>29412237
I will say that thus far we've really only seen combat in modern cities with modern architecture and urban sprawl very rarely, especially western-type cities.
That said, it's not like it hasn't happened ever. Kosovo, Ukraine, Chechnya, and to a lesser extent, the drug war in mexico city have all given us glimpses of what this is like.
Some common structures that don't really have an accepted doctrine for dealing with yet:
- spaghetti bowl highway loops
- large skyscrapers, groups of tight-knit skyscrapers
- subway systems
- suburban sprawls
- cities with a functioning electrical/telecommunications grid
bait aside where can I find info on city fighting? Books, documentaries, ect.
Nothing starvation, dehydration and fire can't fix. Sure they can collect rainwater and grow gardens here and there but the more mines outside the cities, the more traps in the sewers, the more literal grates of scorpions, spiders, snakes, rats, bombardier beetles, wasps, bullet ants, meth and feminists catapulted into the city, they fewer willing to stay and fight.
Wait did we want to actually be able to salavge the city?
>>29412327
>japs
>aryans
wat
>>29412716
Or you could not be a fag and get over it. Its just a bird. Jesus Christ people think fucking with another person's life is always the best way to go about things
>>29413908
right here, anon. what do you want to know? I'll talk out my ass about it.
>>29412237
JUST FUCKING SECURE WATERHOLES, FOOD FACTORIES AND A COUPLE OF AIRPORTS. POWER PLANTS TOO.
THE REST YOU CAN BOMB.
>>29414142
supposing you need to actually capture the city for the sake of enslaving and/or liberating the populace, however...
>>29412729
Too think that the internet is so big but yet we are all isolated thanks to the fact we dont speek multiple languages.
All the danke maymays and ebin moments we miss.
>>29412848
>- spaghetti bowl highway loops
>level
>- large skyscrapers, groups of tight-knit skyscrapers
>level, then lots and lots of fire
>- subway systems
thermobarics
>- suburban sprawls
everything is made of wood and plaster, thermobarics
>- cities with a functioning electrical/telecommunications grid
not hard at all to disrupt
>>29414416
ok, now you have a fuckton of displaced, very upset people in a massive, burned out, impossible to navigate terrain consisting of spiderholes, concealment and solid cover.
have fun
>>29414451
add more fire to any of my suggestions until success
>>29414469
already burned out in the first attacks.
see: Stalingrad
>>29414484
So then victory on the first strike is assured, what's the problem?
>>29414519
because if history holds true, the ruins are crawling with Russians who will stab you with a pike
>>29414588
thats why you add more fire, to burn the left over russians
one thing that's particularly striking to a civilian such as me is how a city is usually seen as an impediment to any assault, a type of terrain that is intrinsically favorable to the defender rather than the attacker.
While that's certainly true to an extent, I think work could be done on establishing a doctrine for organized, professional militaries to quickly and effectively overcome large city defenses and defenders.
Large modern cities are not built specifically for defense, like ancient walled cities. Instead, they are built for efficiency and control, and they exhibit a general tendency to "fray" at the edges in these regards. They are also highly three-dimensional, and any combatant in a large city must make use of that depth in order to fight effectively. Other unique aspects: modern cities have a large population. They create a large amount of channeling terrain. They are affected by logical control "gateways" - utilities, which much like the weather, can set an overall tone for an operation. They are dynamic - as infrastructure attrites, the tactical situation in an area can change drastically.
Here's how I would assault a large non-littoral city, assuming a capable combined arms force under my control and a ROE requiring me not to directly attack noncombatants:
TBC
>>29414686
You sound smart. I'm interested
>>29414686
>fuck the suburbs completely - we will be going around them via air.
>gain air and electronic supremacy first or don't go in at all.
>establish fire bases in a loose ring on one side of the city outside the suburbs with rapid reaction forces ready to strike from these bases by ground. Each of these forces should have a substantial mechanized component with at least some MBTs and SPGs.
>Simultaneously launch feinting attacks from these bases into the burbs that blitz in, destroy utilities, or simply let the enemy know I'm knocking, then fuck off promptly back to base.
>At the same time, airdrop an elite infantry component into the city center with enough size that the number of manpads able to get off shots will not significantly diminish my force. Yes the exchange rate is not in my favor here, but any dynamic assault usually suffers this way at first.
>Assert control over the downtown built-up area, keep supplies and reinforcements coming via a steady stream of precision airdrops, possibly via drone
>Assist air by creating heavy smoke and noise - burning off fuel depots, gas stations, etc to blind and deafen insurgent manpad operators
>CAS should selectively destroy infrastructure to create channels toward the city center defenders will naturally tend to move along; these will serve to naturally partition the city and concentrate the defenders
>flood the sub-surface infrastructure with tear gas.
>As city defenders swarm toward the center, move in through the suburbs in a blitz attack that cordons off the suburbs you move past in your rear
>anvil and hammer
>island hop difficult neighborhoods in the city - cordon and monitor them while dominance is asserted over the rest of the city. where possible, CAS the shit out of them.
>>29412456
24/7 counterinsurgency policing
>>29414416
You literally just create Stalingrad 2, you just make it harder for yourself if you do this
>>29413922
ask hitler ...
>>29412538
Damn that's some great strategy! You should be in Congress.
>City full of millions of people
>Few thousand insurgents
>Why can't we just bomb them?
Enjoy your future directing Israeli air-war against Palestine!
>>29414827
You forgot
>Engage in 15 month long occupation where a single defender has the ability to tie up hundreds of your soldiers because of the terrain
Cities have been meat grinders since the history of cities.
>>29414451
It worked in Dresden.
>>29415234
That's what the strategy is designed to avoid.
Basically you expose yourself - and probably suffer more casualties up front - in exchange for a blitz kind of attack that disorients, disrupts, and is designed in all ways to root out and destroy the insurgent presence in a city as much as possible, then turn the rest of the city that you can't blitz into ghettos that you just monitor from the outside.
It's an attempt at compromising between just sieging/hopping the city until everyone inside gives up anyway, and trying to force your way meticulously through every damn area of the city until you control it all. The first is likely to result in a humanitarian crisis while the second is definitely going to be so slow that insurgents will have time to respond intelligently.
On the other hand, yeah I'm just a dude in an armchair. I would love to hear current US military theory on how things could be improved over what we did in Afghanistan/Iraq (which FWIW was already some of the best urban operations in mliitary history in my opinion).
>>29414215
You don't really.
The earth is overpopulated.
We can spare the casualties.
Killing everyone or threaten to kill everyone was the only effectively method. In out of all historical examples, I can only see that the Mongols coming out of impossible sieges and win relatively unscathed.
For example
>Siege of Baghdad
>Mongols claimed 200,000 killed because they counted ears they cut off.
>Muslim claimed 2,000,000 dead.
Killing everyone is political suicide in the modern age. There is no winning besieging mega cities at this current state of affairs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_%281258%29
I wouldn't mind having these shitty people wipe off the face of the earth to be quite honest.
>>29415446
>Dat webm
Just like in my chinese cartoons.
Holy shit.
>>29412689
Thermobarics don't burn shit you fucking mong, kill yourself.
>>29415370
You're never going to be able to "pacify" a city completely unless you kill every single occupant. They're always going to be a huge resource and moral suck.
>>29415373
>>29415446
>>29415603
If you can't think of anything cleverer than "kill them all" you're a fucking idiot and a huge edgelord, and you make debates like this insipid and uninteresting.
Motherfuckers, Berlin was pacified without killing everyone. The entire island of Honshu was pacified without killing everyone. Even the mongols didn't actually kill everyone, because without the goddamn populace the city is worthless pile of fucking bricks on a riverbank.
There's somewhere between sacking the whole city and bypassing it entirely that is a good balance of speed and control, and that's what is the interesting part of the concept to discuss. Simplicity is not interesting.
Go read some actual history and not the propaganda, goddamn.
>>29412237
>NOBODY IS READY FOR THIS SHIT.
My dick is
>>29415804
In everyone of those "pacifications" there was a credible threat of total annihilation. That's why they surrendered. It's part of the total war paradigm.
It's boring yeah. But it's what has worked as long as there have been cities.
The thing about discussing it is that "urban warfare" could be either a siege to take a city controlled by another side for strategic reasons or an insurgency/counterinsurgency type scenario.
You'd clearly prefer to discuss the latter.
>>29412237
Its already bad in a fucking video game. Imagine what it would be like in a city such as Istambul, Cairo, or moscow.
>>29415804
>Even the mongols didn't actually kill everyone
>laughingkhans.jpg
>>29416243
War is continuation of policy, total war is a monster onto itself. Politics can not take over once countries engage in a war of extermination and total victory become the only option which forces an uncontrolled commitment of resources. From a political perspective fighting war of extermination in a costly thing best to be avoid for internal reasons.
On tactical level a threat of extermination is likely to mobilize massive resistance against the invader which in a mega city could easily mean defeat for the invader. After all the defender has a huge population to call on for troops while the invader has to commit his own professional troops. No matter what your objectives are they should always be presented as having the least amount of impact on the least amount of people in order to avoid creating unnecessary resistance.
US easily took Baghdad because the people of Baghdad knew that they didn't face the risk of extermination or large scale oppression from the Americans and there for they didn't resist in the numbers that they could have.
>>29412270
You stupid nigger
>>29416800
The U.S. took Baghdad because we had utterly decimated the army of a minority rules country. The majority of the populous had no reason at all to fight.
>>29412237
>Year 2037
>An allied coalition of American, South Korean and Japanese troops have begun their assault on mainland China
>Siege a Chinese megacity
>Most of the troops die after developing lung cancer from breathing Chinese air without a mask for more than a month
>The rest have to deal with human waves of Chinese troops/hostile civilians harassing their position on a 24/7 basis
>Just when they reach downtown, the Chinks go all scorched earth and collapse the entire skyline. Drones rain white phosphorous on everything
Holy shit, WW3 urban combat is going to make Stalingrad look like a nice vacation.
>>29417672
And then somebody pokes a hole in the Three Gorges dam.
>>29417672
>Most of the troops die after developing lung cancer from breathing Chinese air without a mask for more than a month
>implying i'm not hype as fuck for the glorious return of gasmask warfare
>>29417672
>Just when they reach downtown
nah, it's a megacity man
just siege it until all food and water is gone.
>>29417712
>TFW the Death Korps of Krieg emerge from the ashes of the war
>>29417688
And directly sets off a chain of events that end in a nuclear exchange.
>>29417799
a man can dream.
>>29412418
Actually FB counts any view over 3 seconds as a "View." Videos on FB also autoplay, meaning that anyone who is too slow to scroll past it will automatically contribute to the viewcount.
FB is cancer.
>>29414686
I get what youre doing and its an ok plan... now im no fucking military strategist but I would rather pick the easiest way and move from one side to the other clearing it all out, with that being said I would also send and drop guys to capture strategic rescources of the city such as water and power along with refineries and such. Then have the army and the marines push through with air support, maybe strategic bombing runs with concrete bombs to just destroy important infrastucture to not level the city. You want to capture the city, not destroy it. Cities and people have value even in war. When I say value I mean strategy and resources that can be used. What good is a city with all of that when you have to spend years rebuilding.
>inb4 MW3
It'll be insane
>>29414827
I had to read this a couple times to make sure i was right but it looks like in part you want to set up a defensive position, BEHIND enemy lines that will be under 24/7 attack and the only way to assist/reinforce them is to keep having black-hawk down scenarios several times a day, Inaccurate airdrops that even at their best would land your enemy with your supplies 3/10 attempts. and a constant, Never ending carnival of meat-grinder warfare where new troops would have to be cycled out every 48-72 hours due to either wounds, exhaustion, or just being driven crazy.
Not to mention that everything you mentioned will turn 90% of said city against the attackers, and having at the minimum several hundred thousand new combatants ready and pissed the fuck off and being channeled towards your defensive line, to overwhelm completely...
Also, Fixed wing CAS cant really fly around skyscrapers, its risky. And it wont take long for your insurgents to figure out that if they chill in tall skyscrapers and such they can take level potshots at your air transports...
But im obviously not as smart as you (im not being sarcastic or anything) im just pointing out what i see~
>>29412699 dubs
>Also i need suggestions on how to dispose of my neighbors parrot
Is it a dead parrot?
There's only one way to clear mega-cities.
>>29419568
Indeed.
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/TyTRKVl.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
>>29419568
In all honesty, the defeat of a determined enemy force in a densely populated area is one of the few realistic uses of nuclear weapons.
>>29419935
Is this a secret webm or am I having acid flashbacks looking at this
>>29414827
And what happens if, in such a large city, your forces can't rally and get isolated from each other?
>1995 Grozny 2.0
>>29412848
>- spaghetti bowl highway loops
Bypass and cordon. Drone strikes as applicable. Shrink your cordon anytime your battalion level drones spot an underdefended section.
>- large skyscrapers, groups of tight-knit skyscrapers
Easy. Bypass, cordon, and starve. Find and isolate or seal all subterranean access points.
>- subway systems
Hard one. Tear gas and night vision will give you a slight edge. Settle for taking and holding all of the subway stations. Seal off the tubes, if necessary. Clear the tunnels after you've settled things above ground.
>- suburban sprawls
Cordon, cut water and electricity. Control travel in and out.
>- cities with a functioning electrical/telecommunications grid
Seize generation and broadcast facilities.
I'm operating on the assumption that you want to minimize damage to the infrastructure. If you don't care, thermobarics for everything. For the subways, don't ignite the gas. Ethylene Oxide kills anything alive by contact, if the contact is long enough. There's a reason hospitals use it to sterilize anything that can't be autoclaved.
radical idea;
napalm and MOABs.
burn them and destroy all their shit.
if you can cordon off a few blocks for an FOB, have paladins rain hell on the city and send in drones.
tanks will be ineffective due to rubble, mines, suicide bombers, and launchers in close proximity.
that is of course if this is a sandbox war in somewhere like dubai or something.
if it's WW3, just nuke the fucking place.
>>29414588
Even if you're trying to take Buenos Aires, or Capetown? What, does fire automatically turn everybody into Russians?
>>29420516
idk about South Afrika but from your two examples i know from experience that argentineans may talk a lot of shit about their gov but they are in general quite the nationalists and a 12M pop in Buenos Aires would make any army's life hell just like the Russian main cities from WW2, and fire is near useless, everything is concrete and bricks.
Or did i missinterpret what you wanted to say?
>>29412237
I want this as a video game, with full destruction and a persistent environment.
>>29421479
i would kill for a large grand strategy with the map Total War way and the battles World in Conflict but with denser cities.
>>29412237
"Fortifications are useless" they said! "All it would take is an airstrike and they're down" they said!
>>29412321
Stalingrad was a "small town" with only like one main street and about four blocks wide boarded ether the river or the outskirts and the rest was railroad and rail yards with warehouses.
If you look at it now, it is mostly filled with suburbs of condos and single story houses of what were the outskirts of mostly fields.
There is literally nothing on the eastern shore of the Volga River in which the Soviet army made the crossing with riverboats.
>>29419935
The bigger H-bombs are called city busters for a reason.
>>29412600
This site is... actually fine. Breddy gud even.
Honestly, something the size of Sao Paulo?
I don't think it could be done through conventional means.
Unless you could somehow get most of the locals on your side, no chance. Unless you want a 5+ year engagement with a ridiculous amount of troop losses.
Think about it. What would you do?
Try and clear the entire thing block by block?
You'd send a team up to clear a high-rise, and the resistance would just have planted bombs to blow the damn thing up. Men are kill.
Subways? Not a chance. You'd have to gas the entire thing then go clear it, as resistance would have gas masks because that's the first damn thing they would do. You'd end up like Metro 2033 except every person wants to kill you more than in the game.
Even if you demolished buildings to make wide corridors to control, they'd just fuck with you the whole time. Could be a RPG behind every building just waiting.
You either leave the whole thing and just starve them out, or explode it all.
>>29412418
kek
>>29412704
kys
>>29414827
"I'm a 16 y/o armchair general who has no idea what the fuck I'm on about": the post.
>>29412237
It would have to be done in multiple phases,
Phase one, flank and surrond, with emphasis on capturing major roads and highways/public transportation in and out, setting up firebases and outposts to overwatch the major roads or subway/railways and surrounding countryside.
Phase 2, seige. Most modern cities will starve within a few days, that will force the population to surrender, or sneak out and any military forces to attempt a breakout
Phase 3 noose tighteng, send in forces to cordon off major transportation, communications and power hubs, setting up green zones near the major roads used to get in the mega city. This portion will take the highest casualties
Phase 4, rooting out and branching out, use green zones to assult subway systems both above ground and below ground to secure logistics transportation and curtail resistance transportation, set up stong fire bases throughout the city and take up defensive posture,
Phase 5, propaganda and hearts and minds, cut off all basic supplies to civilians and execute suspected resistance cells with extreme prejudice, make cooperation the only way to gain basic nessities. Hand out id cards, install curfews, anybody caught outside cerfew shot dead. Start civilian police made of collaborators to aid capture of dissenters , reward collaborators with basic luxuries and move them into safer green zones to better monitor for double agents and insurgency within collaborator ranks
This would take years but I see it as the only way to take down a Mega city
>>29412237
Did not realize the urban sprawl in San Paulo was so expansive
That is why the bugs did not try to take over Buenos Aires in the movie. No point in it.
>>29412237
>t
These threads always assume that the path to victory is THROUGH an obstacle rather than AROUND it.
The smartest plan? Fuck the megacity. Bypass it. There are few scenarios where subjecting your force to the domination of a megacity is necessary or advised and if you got yourself to the point where THROUGH is possible and AROUND is not, you fucked up.
>>29414614
Fears, you've used up shot tons of valuable ordinance to turn a valuable city into a pile of rubble and now the enemies populace has turned rabidly against you.
>>29412237
I would just do what I did on cod 4. I was baller at that shit so I'm aight
>>29421464
Just wanted to make sure we weren't opening a portal into the Eldritch Dimensions, or something like that. I don't mind getting ganked in the kidney with a piece of rusty rebar by an Afrikaaner or Argie. I just don't want to deal with Stalingrad zombies or some shit.
Now I just need to figure out why I'm trying to take cities in these places.
>>29412237
Right? Fuck this innawoods shit. You got balls if you're gonna stay alive surviving hordes of dindus and liberal noguns.
What were NATO forces in Berlin expected to do if the Cold War got hot? Anyone have any good reading material on that?
>inb4 die in nuclear fire
>>29426491
Throw themselves at the fulda gap until reinforcements got there
>>29426491
>inb4 die in nuclear fire
but that's right
Some units were to pull out, towards setting up a defense in Western Germany/ Eastern France, while German military and some units deemed expendable were to bog down Soviet armor while the nukes began to fly.
>>29426512
I meant the forces specifically in Berlin. They're already isolated as it is.
>>29426491
>inb4 die in a nuclear fire
yeah...
If the WG general is still up in /vg/ they had some great documents to read in the sticky concerning nuclear and non nuclear cold war gone hot NATO protocols and plans.
also
CALLING OPPENHEIMER
REPEAT, CALLING OPPENHEIMER
AWAKE FROM YOUR SLUMBER
INFO IS NEEDED
>>29426559
The troops in Korea weren't the first to call themselves "the Tripwire". They knew they would get fuckin rekt.
Read up on the Berlin Crisis in '61 as to how things would go for those guys. if you want to look at Western nuclear strategy, I recommend Command and Control by Eric Schlosser.
>>29426491
They were expected to die, just like the tripwire forces on the Fulda Gap. My grandfather was with armored cav there in the 50s.
>>29417799
with the chinese?
lolno, their arsenal is tiny and vulnerable to a decapitation strike.
a nuclear exchange with a full bore nuclear power would be absolute suicide for china.
>mfw the PLA has less warheads then france.
Create a perimeter around the city. Starve the city, no water, electricity, no one in or out for two months. Withdraw troops. Deploy neutron bomb.
Use artillery and precision bomb strikes on civilian targets like hospitals, fire stations,malls and carpet bomb the suburbs and other large residential areas. If they dont surrender then use biological weapons but at a small scale , im talking Anthrax and a bit of napalm. If that doesnt work then a tactical nuclear weapon would be the last option.
>>29412286
Internet for all = VR paradise for all
Once everyone has enough access to electricity for their VR devices, they will want for mostly nothing, stop having regular sex, population starts to go down, etc.
Welcome to the post-scarcity world economy.
If you have an openly hostile population (which would be the case if you are the aggressor), your best bet is to do what they did in the old days and starve them out. This will take the longest but it will minimize causalities. Kill the power, water, sewer, and food infrastructure. You'll get to the point where they'll turn on each other and fight. Despite all of this, a city can still support a good resistance. Your next step is to offer surrender after many months of forced starvation. Take them prisoner. What you do with them depends on if you want to keep them.
You are still left with a very determined force of people who will want to kill you. At this point I recommend using the prisoners to sweep for traps the defenders may have sprung. Use them as human shields. Slowly divide the city into clear zones. Kill everything that moves.
>>29429262
I lost an eye in a tragic boating accident when i was young, so VR is out of the question for me.
While everyone else is browsing VR-/k/ and having VR-sex with their waifus ill be gathering cyclops's to form a coalition of mercenaries who operate on our offshore rig/base, eventually we will grow in number (i figure ill capture some people and poke an eye out of each of them) and make it our objective to take a mega-city.
But probably get BTFO by VR-controlled drones and made fun of on VR-/k/ for being a faggot...
>>29425993
I guess the hypothetical is that the city IS the objective. Doesn't matter IRL what the deal would be
>>29412237
>Megacity urban warfare
Riddle me this, anon: What the fuck is there in an urban center, that's worth fighting for?
>>29430257
idk
a Stargate
>>29426559
>Berlin Victory column
>French tricolor banner
>Brit tank
da fuk?
>>29430328
Legacy of the occupation zones probably, there's a Union Jack behind it. The Chieftains are part of the British Berlin Brigade.
>>29430257
if the population is aligned to the defenders, they post a massive threat to allied forces in that the enemy can launch ambushes on your troops then retreat into a well defended area that is either very costly to take or takes a long time to starve them out.
The number of troops that guard the perimeter of a city could be used elsewhere, and if there aren't enough troops to guard the city, the enemy could use it to launch attack after attack on your support units.
Just think of cities as just one big hard point. With the possibility for semi-self sustainability should they mobilize the manpower to start up urban farms and water collection.
>>29430377
TLDR: nothing in the city is worth fighting for, its the threat which the city poses that is the factor in besieging a city
>>29414827
This is 100% wrong.
DMZ has some decent ideas as to how to besiege a city. While the "super sniper rifle" might be costly, it could be good at providing overwatch at a lower cost than say a UAV or an armored vehicle.
Set up a bunch of these surrounding a city, make sure the enemy doesn't know their location so they can mortar it and boom. You have a great way to pick off enemies inside the city without risking allied casualties or the loss of an expensive UAV (should the enemy have MANPADs or autocannons)
I wonder if the tech we have would allow for that gun to be made
Ten days at the outside and you're looking at medieval-style famine, followed by a medieval-style pandemic because nothing fucks over your immune system like half starving to death.
It'd be horrible, but I don't see what the problem is if you're the attacker. Block off all major roads and wait.
I think there's another option between trying to take it block by block, siege and starving the defenders out, or nuking it/blasting it into ruins.
Have special operations or other light infantry adept at small unit operations and infiltration enter the city, identify the defender's hard points, key sites and such, and lead the way for more infiltrators and heavier weapons. Eventually, attack and take the defenders from the rear, like the Vietnamese did during Tet.
See H. John Poole's works on the need for a bottom up approach in the US armed forces and a switch in thinking from technology and firepower to deception and infiltration.
>>29412237
All my NOPE
>>29430643
>and lead the way for more infiltrators and heavier weapons
this is assuming you have a substantial number of people within the city supporting you?
because if not, its bound to fail once an enemy informant notices you.
You need to already have a pre-established base of supporters that are as large or larger than the number of civilians that support the defenders.
The VC were able to sneak in weapons because a large percentage of the population supported them. In addition to that, the enemy was spread out searching for VC. In the city, the enemy will be everywhere.
>>29430738
>substantial number of people within the city supporting you
So you're saying we'd need spies and PsyOps to find and persuade key people/factions of the city's inhabitants to support the attacker?
Sounds a lot more doable to infiltrate a couple of spies to pave the way for larger groups of follow on forces than send a few divisions into a meat grinder/deal with international commendation because you starved a few hundred thousand/million/tens of millions of defenders to death/turn a city into rubble/risk international nuclear war for nuking it.
>>29430883
>infiltrate a couple of spies
but the locals will figure out who they are.
Strangers stick out like a sore thumb, especially when they don't know the city.
best you could do is send in spec ops teams disguised as civilians that can take out enemy hard points or strategic assets the moment you begin blitzing the city.
But if the majority of the citizens are aligned to the defenders, it'll be very hard to infiltrate enemy areas and get intel.
Its easier to hide among civilians, trying to hide from them is much harder
>>29413908
>only move at night
>don't move in the open
>scan everything always
>avoid any area that would be a good area for the enemy to set a trap
>plenty to scavenge but plenty to have to fight
>buy a set of auto jigglers
>scavenge gas by puncturing the tank from underneath and collecting in a container (it won't hold forever, I think it will be usable for 4-8 months iirc)
>make friends
>make your way out
>>29429885
love ya
>>29430909
>Strangers stick out like a sore thumb, especially when they don't know the city.
So isn't that why spies get local help? And the impending invasion is going to have refugees from the country side and suburbs, as well as people moving from one district to another. You're going to have a mix of people and it'd be impossible to rightly know if they're infiltrators or refugees or even supporting militia, depending on how the covert operators work the situation and their cover for the average person on the street, difficult if they're official defenders.
>>29414142
When the enemy finds out you're holding those territories they'll bomb them. A good idea is to secure everything AROUND the area you wish to defend. Set defensive points in the buildings across the street for example and only have alternating patrols enter the building that may be targeted. Also utilize decoys. Have a big building you have guys going in and out of filled with nothing. When it gets bombed because their surveillance indicated it was important target, guess what it's fucking nothing. The supplies were never in the big building labelled "SUPPLIES HERE" they were in an incognito location somewhere else.
>>29415446
source on that webm?
>>29417688
And then nukes fly because the Chinese have made it quite clear that they consider an attack on the dam the equivalent of a strategic nuclear strike and would react to it accordingly.
>>29431148
Im just going off of what the CIA "guide to the analysis of insurgencies" says. Because the enemy will act like insurgents while holding up in a city, im applying what i read from the CIA texts to urban warfare.
the issue is you'd have to mobilize large number of agents in order to create the network and infrastructure that would allow for saboteurs and secret squirrel operators to effectively operate in the city. This is considering that the majority of the population is either openly hostile or supports the city defenders. In addition to that, you'd have to infiltrate the city long before the conventional forces besiege the city or risk looking like a spy (because most civvies will leave the city and give themselves up if they begin to run out of food). By that time if there is a large number of strangers that suddenly show up, it'll raise eyebrows.
The main point is that it is significantly harder and more costly to do so. I never said it was impossible.
The biggest weakness of an urban insurgency is the fact that they have to hide among the population and are susceptible to attrition and psychological warfare at the hands of military or police forces. Meaning that having the civilian population aligned to you makes things much easier.
>>29427495
>lolno, their arsenal is tiny and vulnerable to a decapitation strike.
Wow, it's like you literally missed the last 35+ years of developments.
The chinese arsenal is not actually particularily vulnerable to an attempted first strike outside of the fantasies of a few ignorant armchair generals - even the absolute best-case scenarios that can still be called realistic leave them with more than enough warheads to perform a retaliatory countervalue strike capable of ending the attackers existence as a nationstate. A full-bore nuclear exchange with China would be a murder-suicide for anyone. And attacking the Three Gorges Dam is the exact same as initiating a full-bore nuclear exchange as far as the Chinese are concerned.
>>29431285
wrong image
>>29431311
just accidentally do an arclight mission on the three gorges damn
claim that the pilots veered off course and blame it on Le May ;)
>>29412689
Has Iraq used their new TOSs against ISIS anywhere yet, or are we still waiting for them to be captured?
>>29416465
Just gimme some X-01 power armor, a nicely modded laser rifle and a fat man in case things get hairy.
>>29431350
they used a few, though the SAA has reportedly (as far as I know) been known to use them more than their iraqi counterparts. One (don't know how many really) was spotted near Palmyra and one (don't know how many really) near Latakia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvQDIBlJ9KQ
Iraqi TOS 1 near Baiji
>>29419616
WTF is that, Judge Red?
>>29431311
Im just getting here, but you seem to be missing a major point.
Who in the fuck would want China? It is literally a toxic dump, with next to no resources besides its cheap slave labor. And once you acquire it, you have to keep all those 1.5BILLION mouths fed or you are going to have a massive fucking problem.
>>29431408
>with next to no resources besides its cheap slave labor
they got rare earth metals. Those are pretty important. US comes in second, but China is still a major producer of rare earth metals.
>>29431435
Yeah, China is number one in producing rare earth because of said cheap labor
How about the old fashion way?
-Bomb power plants / lines into the city
-Destroy bridges / roads / intercept supply
-Demoralize resistance with strategic bombings of hideouts or special forces raids
-Air drop propaganda saying the city is annexed and cooperation will result in electricity / food supply
-Enter city once agreement is made (established curfew, no-go zones, roadblocks / checkpoints, random ID checks, frequent raids)
>>29431435
>China coal, iron ore, petroleum, natural gas, mercury, tin, tungsten, antimony, manganese, molybdenum, vanadium, magnetite, aluminum, lead, zinc, rare earth elements, uranium, hydropower potential (world's largest), arable land
China doesnt have much of anything. Most all their GDP exports are agriculture and making big machines like mining equipment
>world leader in gross value of industrial output, machine building, textiles and apparel, transportation equipment, etc etc
basically cheap labor is their only resource.... oh and unlimited hydroelectricity. Their farmland is all but ruined, their atmosphere is polluted beyond belief, and all that strip mining for coal and lead is degrading the environment further.
Sure they have some gold, palladium, and silver, but really, with massive clusterfuck that comes with China, who gives a shit about 100 metric tons of gold and silver. Australia and Afghanistan look much better for stealing precious earth metals than shitshow China. One of which is already controlled by NATO and bought out by joos, and the other is being buttfucked by NATO and in the process of getting bought-out by Bilderberg group and their lackeys.
>>29431311
>260 active warheads
Literally firecrackers to keep the street shitters and SEA from getting uppity
>>29431311
We can hit their warheads first though, the problem is nuclear subs but the US Navy probably tracks them anyways.
>>29431535
>cheap labor
for now. China's growing middle class has increased the manufacturing costs. Now its cheaper to manufacture in India than it is to manufacture in China.
>>29431651
yeah the untapped precious metal potential in Afghanistan is incredible.
It would definitely be worth it in the long run to have a military presence there just to extract the metals
(talking out of my ass) I'd even bet that if they used precious metal funds, they could hire a shitload of PMC's to guard the mines, train Afghan troops and maybe even provide CAS and raids on Taliban strongholds.
>>29431752
that chart doesnt show inflation. it is literally useless.
If you come across a chart showing minimum wage of the US when corrected for inflation, see just how much that $10/hr really is in pre2000 dollars.
>>29412320
Thanks anon. Downloading on kindle now. Looks like a great read
>>29431777
my bad
inflation has started to plateau though. That means that while manufacturing costs increase, it is not directly related to inflation, but to the fact that more Chinese are transitioning from lower to middle class.
In addition to that, Chinese inflation has plateaued for the time being.
>>29431867
while at the same time wages are expected to grow quickly, meaning that if this plateau continues, China won't be able to produce cheap goods efficiently.
If anyone has more knowledge on the topic and thinks im wrong, by all means interject. I'll admit that most of the stuff I know is fairly basic. So I'll admit to being wrong if someone provides enough info.
>>29420230
The first assault of Grozny was a cluster fuck because they thought that the local populace would not fight and evacuate. Also the people operating the tanks had no business operating a fucking Beetle so they were killed quickly. Spetnaz units successfully infiltrated but then they were given no orders beyond meet up with the main group that never showed or just were dropped off somewhere and told to do... whatever, man.
No leadership and no understanding that fighting is more than automatically winning because you are a higher level like in Earthbound or some shit.
>>29431311
Oh, and chinese nuclear command is ridiculously top-down to prevent some warlord from hijacking nukes and holding Beijing hostage. That's what makes it vulnerable to decapitation
>>29414827
>Airdrop soldiers in the middle of the city
>SACRIFICES MUST BE MADE GENTLEMEN!
Yeah no.
In any city where the population is armed, which is actually quite a few, in the grand scheme of things they're going to fuck your army and you.
>probably literally
>>29431397
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Apocalypse_War
Its one of Judge Dredds most famous stories dude.
>>29430446
Developing new cheap tech is often mire costly than building more expensive tech.
>>29412321
>>29421872
Stalingrad was fought to mostly push the Krauts out of the city. Fighting was done on the outskirts. Look to Berlin for what everyone thinks Stalingrad was.
>>29412237
That entire picture could literally fit everyone in Australia ten times over.
>>29418669
Different Anon, I'd assume they'd have encircled the city before enacting this plan.
