Hearing protection
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
Let's have a quick chat about hearing protection.
There is a lot of misinformation and dangerous advice out there.
Firstly, you should ALWAYS DOUBLE UP on hearing protection. Plugs under muffs. Always. This adds about 5-8db protection onto the rating of the plugs. (30db plugs and 25db muffs DOES NOT equal 55db protection)
Secondly, ALWAYS wear hearing protection when shooting suppressed firearms. No, I don't care that it's subsonic 300blackout. No, I don't care that it's a bolt action 22 with a 26 inch barrel. Wear. Hearing. Protection.
Even the sound of a semi-auto action cycling can be (and is often) over 120db.
So if you ever see someone take off their ear protection when shooting something suppressed, please slap them.
t. Concerned individual
>>29378367
I shoot with just one set of headphones on. What warranted you to stuff your opinion in my face.
>>29378367
It's people like you - who want to meddle in other people's affairs - that are the reason we have gun control. I do not need a nanny to ensure my safety, and I will not nanny others. Kindly fuck off faggot.
>hurr durr
>t. Redditor
Go fuck yourself
t. Someone who wears earpro but thinks you are a cringeworthy faggot
>>29378367
OT
Been in 2 serious close combat situations during deployment, now i'm deaf on the right ear and have a permanent, flexible tinnitus on both.
No ear protection, except opening my mouth when shooting. After a few hours i also tried to put cigarette filters in my ears. Didn't work out. So remember to always wear that shit.
OP is a faggot
>>29378367
>Even the sound of a semi-auto action cycling can be (and is often) over 120db
Kill yourself :^)
>>29378367
>I am hearing Pro Expert
>Pic of MSA Knockoffs
You people laught now, but you'll be sorry in 20 years when you start to notice the effects of lackluster hearing protection on your own hearing
But you all will probably just blame it on the effects of aging, won't you
I'm trying to help goddamnit
>>29378367
>be me
>be rso
>be indoor range
>try to tell a customer something
>"WHAT?!" as they pull off their earpro in a full range
>mfw
>>29378435
Your trying to be a saucy cunt
>>29378435
i'm 24 and can already barely hear out of my right ear. Oddly enough, its always my left ear that gets abused
honestly, its mostly because i used to work construction as a teenager n didnt know better about hearing loss. It kinda sucks.
>>29378435
No one's laughing anon, you just cant control what others do.
That being said I've got a friend who shoots his mauser and mosin without hearing pro... I always offer him but he doesn't seem to care. Meh, you can't control people.
>>29378435
What?
>>29378435
>hurr durr it's not the affects of aging it is shooting .22LR out of a 26" barrel once a year with ear protection but you didn't double up 2 pairs of Sordins and 5 earplugs
Just go away
Anyone tried the Prosounds X-Pro Plugs? Seems kinda cool, and good for patrols. You dont have to change batteries either.
>>29378379
This.
If I want to shoot my Dan Wesson without earpro and fuck my ears, that's my prerogative.
Do I have to turn my radio down too mom? My computer headphones?
The only thing you should do is educate new shooters on the dangers.
>>29378435
I work near Aircraft engines for a living, I don't need an internet lecture about hearing protection from some queer.
>>29378428
Do you have a semi-auto shotgun?
Lock the bolt back, put your ear next to the action, and release the bolt
You should hear a eeeeeeeeee noise
The same is happening, on a smaller scale, when your head is a foot further away. You just don't notice the effect immediately
That's why no matter what you need ear protection for suppressed guns
>>29378367
>Firstly, you should ALWAYS DOUBLE UP on hearing protection.
>This adds about 5-8db protection
Fuck off, just fuck off.
>>29378435
WHAT?
I never go to indoor ranges so just plug is fine for me. Except for that time I took one out to talk to someone then forgot to put it back in when I fired my Mosin. Instant ear ringing for like 2 minutes.
>>29378473
Right because my ear is next to the ejection port of a semi auto shotgun while shooting my AR suppressed
Okay, while Im an advocate for ear protection with weapon usage, I will sat OP that you are being an oblivious asshat and spreading the word in the worst way possible, and that is trying to shove it down throats like you're some long donged mormon on a sunday.
During my teen years I went to a good amount of metal shows. After every show I'd have the infamous 'EEEEEEE' and I would think "eh it'll go away in a couple of days". When I got close to my twenties I started realize this shit is gonna mess me up later in life, so I started trying to wear hearing pro when I went to those concerts. I wasn't super consistent with it, usually would forget then remember when the show started. Now I'm in my mid twenties and I'm already suffering from partial hearing loss, mainly in my left ear. Kinda regret it but I enjoyed my early years and you live and you learn. Now that I've gotten into firearms, I (obviously) always wear hearing pro.
I have to let people know that if they talk to me on my left side I won't really be able to hear them or understand them. It comes off as rude when I don't respond to someone talking to me.
Wearing your hearing pro, guys, when you're encountering loud noises!
Well, /k/ is full of basement bubbas so naturally they won't hear your good advice because muh freedom
>>29378578
Muh persecution for muh wizdum
Kill yourself
>>29378379
People like you are the same people who yell at others for their lack of TD.
>>29378522
>>29378435
>>29378367
Who are they shilling for? I can't even tell at this point.
>>29378810
Lack of earpro is only hurting them.
Lack of trigger discipline can hurt others.
I have no problem with you pointing a gun at your own head and fondling the trigger. I fact, I think you should try it.
t. paranoid fudd retard
>>29378367
This man speaks the truth. I have been active duty navy for 8 years as a master at arms. I have been line coaching for around 4 years and if you know MA's there are always a lot of reshoots for qualifications.
I have only had one audiogram and that's when I joined up. I'm getting a new one done soon, I know my hearing has gone to shit because of the gun ranges. So If I can get the results of both I'll post them on here to back this point.
>>29378367
>$395 earpro
>only 21 nrr
>>29378458
LOL
OP is mostly right, but present his case like a dumbass.
Yes you should use ear protection when firing a gun.
No, you dont have to double up, its recommended, and even more recommended for shooting weapons like the m1 browning, or similar.
>>29378367
Fuck off. Have been in the military for about 10years and never wore double earprotection and I have fired a lot of Carl Gustaf. No hearing problem what so ever. One is enough
>>29378367
>No, I don't care that it's a bolt action 22 with a 26 inch barrel.
Stopped reading right there
>Even the sound of a semi-auto action cycling can be (and is often) over 120db.
If I kept reading to this point I stop reading right here too
>>29378367
Op is a Dumbass autist
the shockwave from a gunshot is what damages hearing foam plugs are fine at keeping the pressure wave from reaching your eardrums
Db ratings only matter if your in an area with continuous loud sound like working near a jet engine
>>29378522
>I wasn't super consistent with it, usually would forget then remember when the show started.
This is why I keep a pair of earplugs in my pocket.
Rarely need them, but it's nice to have.
>>29379164
>Db ratings only matter if your in an area with continuous loud sound like working near a jet engine
No.
>>29379132
hahahaha
HAHAHAHAHAHA
>>29378367
Never doubled up ever.
Always wear plugs while shooting except when hunting.
Always bump my stereo.
Metal concerts when younger.
I guess I'm just a careless bastard.
Captcha:
Select all the food!
>cat in a bowl
Not sure if trolling...
>>29379139
If this is true why don't the dumbfuck dirt bikers who scream down the road not go deaf ???
>>29379139
>very loud disco
WHAT YEAR IS IT
>>29379424
this. especially if they weigh almost nothing and squash almost flat
stick em in your wallet, in your car, in your backpack
i <3 earpro
>>29379540
bikers do get hearing damage though. ESPECIALLY the "loud pypez save lives" crowd who's head is like 4' away from the exhaust have damage, and even street bikers in poorly insulated helmets can have hearing damage from wind noise
protip: earpro isn't just for shooting
as long as we're having this conversation, i'd like to say LEARN TO PUT IN YOUR PLUGS CORRECTLY
every time i go to the range i see people with 70% of the plug outside their ear canal because they lack the ability to look at the damn box the plugs came in
>roll up the plug
>lift the top of your ear
>insert that shit, nice an deep like
>???
>profit
>>29379667
This is why the double up meme even exists because 90% of /k/ can't follow pictorial instructions
>>29379487
He's not wrong though
Source I'm a crew chief and all training says sustained high db levels cause damage
>>29378390
The fuck does
>t.
mean anyways? That and "Redpill" are evidence of leddit and Co spilling into 4chinz. Probably why it's been getting progressively worse and worse...
>>29378435
An IED and two dumbass privates already took care of it anon. Can't hear shit anymore
>>29379772
>Db ratings only matter if your in an area with continuous loud sound
>only matter in an area with continuous sound
>only matter
>only
as in "exclusively" or "with the exclusion of other noise"
Hi energy impulse sounds like gunshots can damage your hearing to
>>29379734
>not doubling up with electronic ear pro
a true faggot
>>29378465
Seems kinda dumb, since self-regulating plugs with impulse valves you dont need to do anything with already exist for half the price.
>>29379899
>self-regulating plugs with impulse valves
examples?
>>29379929
Army issued combat plugs, Both the Green/yellow 3M Peltor double sided ones (green out for combat, yellow out for the range) or the tan string-linked ones with a mode switch, also by Peltor.
>t. Concerned individual
You're nothing more than the "idea guy" except you also think you're my mother
FUCK OFF
>>29379789
"t."i s an /int/ meme. It stands for terveisin which is Finnish for "regards". Redpill is a /pol/ meme from /pol/'s birth.
I've spoonfed you enough.
>>29378367
>No, I don't care that it's a bolt action 22 with a 26 inch barrel.
No. You do not need ear protection for this.
>>29378367
Been shooting 5,56 and 9mm all week long with just earplugs.
EEEEEEE will not go away.
>>29378367
So what hearing protection (ear muffs like those in OP's picture) do you guys use/recommend?
Can someone recommend earplugs/ear protection for patrols?
I've always worn ear protection, but I have pretty bad tinnitus anyway.
Perfectly fine on hearing tests though, and I haven't even lost higher frequencies like is normal for aging.
>>29380132
3M Peltor's line of combat earplugs.
>>29378367
Thanks for the PSA, OP.
Just ordered some Prosounds M-4's.
Being a musician and a shooter, hearing loss has always been a scary thought. But I've never technically "doubled up" on hearing pro. When I drum I have in ear monitors which block out a decent amount of sound (but also let me listen to the rest of the mix), and then put my shooting pro over top. When shooting its always been the same over ear protection. No doubling, and so far so good.
I have a pair of Nacre quiet pros, they have an NRR of 29 which seems like it should be sufficient, so why should I double up if I'm only going to get a small benefit and lose out on my enhanced electronic hearing?
>>29378367
I have over ear active ear pro rated to 65db. Fuck your plugs
>>29380248
Thank you
old bastard here. lots of mis-spent youth shooting guns and dancing right in front of the speakers... and have some hearing loss now. good advice.
>>29378367
If you attend nuggetfest you should have comms anyway.
>>29380132
most electronic earmuffs. they amplify ambient noise, but cut off anything above 80db (damage threshold).
basically you get super hearing, can still have a conversation, but won't wreck your ears when you shoot.
i have howard leight ones and peltor ones as well. both work well. peltors are a little less bulky and the howard leights turn on with one switch. you can order some models with a behind the neck strap instead of an over the head strap if you want to wear a helmet
>>29380777
double up with electronic earmuffs bro
also checked
>>29380878
Doesnt most of those last for around a month? I know there are some rechargeable ones. But having the annoyance to constantly switch out is the same reason why I dont like using Elcan or EOtech.
>>29378367
>30db plugs and 25db muffs DOES NOT equal 55db protection
Yes it does.
You can't add decibels (like summing power sources) because it's a logarithmic scale, but you can substract attenuation.
Say your muffs filter out 99% of the noise, the transmitted sound will be 0.01 times the outside noise, or -20 decibels.
Say your plugs filter out 99% again, the transmitted sound will be 0.01 times what your muffs let in, hence, they also have a -20 decibel rating.
Now what portion of the sound gets through the muffs+plugs? 0.01*0.01, obviously.
10*log10(0.01*0.01)=-40 dB
Decibels of attenuation can be added, because attenuation is a product of ratios, which, converted to a logarithmic scale, yields addition.
You can't, however, add up two power sources, because it's not a product.
A 20 decibel source plus a 30 decibel source will yield:
10*log10(10^(2)+10^(3))=30.41 dB
A good rule of thumb is that when you double the source, you add 3 decibels.
Indeed, two sources of 20 decibels will yield:
10*log10(10^(2)+10^(2))=23.01dB
>>29380911
can't speak for all brands, but peltors and howard leights have off switches. i've left both sitting, off, for months and using them intermittently for 5-10 minutes every couple days.
either way they run on 2XAAA batteries so just toss a spare set in your pocked and you're good for a long time
>>29379808
>Hi energy impulse sounds like gunshots can damage your hearing to
Exactly. Artillery crews suffer a lot from peak impulse sounds.
>>29378430
>MSA knockoffs
>doesn't know what the fuck TCI is
Kill yourself fag
>>29380969
all I got from this is that you thought 30 db + 25db reduction meant 55db reduction, then proved yourself wrong immediately afterwards.
you're not even getting the full NRR db reduction that's advertised.
>>29380969
Lol ok senpai
Do a quick Google search and you will find that your "math" is horrendously wrong
>>29378367
I already have tinnitus from muh high school rock band, so one layer is just fine. My levels of eeeeeeee haven't increased in the past decade
>>29381069
>I already broke one bone in my arm, so might as well just break all of them.
the idea is you don't want your hearing to get damaged even more than it already is.
>>29381041
nuh uh, he mathed real gud.
see, he used log to try to look smart.
>>29381034
>all I got from this is that you thought 30 db + 25db reduction meant 55db reduction, then proved yourself wrong immediately afterwards.
Erm, no you idiot, look at the fucking numbers. I added -20 and -20 for simplicity's sake.
If you have -30dB, you filter 99.9%, which leaves 0.001 of the original sound power.
Indeed: 10*log10(0.001)=-30
If you then have -25dB, you filter 99.7%, which leaves you with 0.003 of the reducted sound power.
Indeed: 10*log(0.003)=-25dB
The sound that goes through is 0.001*0.003 times the original sound.
10*log(0.003*0.001)= -55dB
>>29381041
The math is correct. Attenuation =/= source.
>>29379059
I don't think you can make a "sleek"-ish design that go much higher
All the 30's I've seen are big fat fuckers.
>>29381121
>>29380969
The math is correct, and that's how it works in electronics and dB attenuations, but soundwaves and hearing protection aren't perfect.
"The total protection afforded can't be calculated from the protection levels of the individual devices, because they do not function independently (due to mechanical coupling effects). "
>>29380132
Surefire EP series. 7s are my favorite.
>>29381085
Kind of a shit example. I'm not talking about shooting with no ear pro, just not going for the double autism package.
>>29381289
Ive seen a lot of these, but have only seen 3 and 4. Will def look into them.
>>29381304
>protecting your hearing is autistic
>>29381329
The 7s have a foam insert, but the biggest advantage I've found is not having to readjust the depth every time you take them out.
Never had any issue shooting handguns indoors or shotguns and high powered rifles outdoors. And I can still hear wind rustling leaves.
They're cheap enough you can try them all out. They're semi disposable anyway.
>>29381376
Yeah, just some questions, what size do you use, and what would you recommend? I'm thinking small.
And it says it can last up to 6 months, are they rechargable, or can you switch batteries? Or are they just one time use?
>>29378522
I went to a club once in like 3 months last year and apparently I got unlucky because now I have tinnitus due to the loud music, feelsbadman
>>29381456
>not wearing plugs when going to clubs and concerts
>>29381404
Most everyone is a medium. The size is for the piece that rests in the outer ear. Pic is the sizing guide.
There is no battery. They're a passive system. The life expectancy is based on them getting dirty from being in your ear. Here's the detailed specs on the EP7 which explains how they work: http://www.surefire.com/media/wysiwyg/main_site_pdfs/EP7_Sonic_Defenders_Ultra.pdf
>>29378367
if you can afford it, get a set of custom electronic earplugs
they are amazing
>>29381565
Thanks man, very helpful
>>29380888
Check 'em yourself mate...
But unless I'm spending $700 on a pair of comtac III's (which is why I bought the Nacres, a by-comparison low cost ear pro/comms setup) then I'd lose the 3D positioning and sound stage the Nacres offer me surely
