It seems strange to me something so basic couldn't be retained and people are trying to reconstruct it via 2d pictures.
I think you're over simplifying things a bit.
But if I over simplify as well then: Japan cut themselves off from the world and had a huge circle jerk of culture that kept swords sort of relevant because they wanted them to be. China was poor as shit, communists and generally gave no fucks about peasants and so they sent troops into battle in WW2 with swords.
The west did neither of these things so they stopped caring about swords after guns became even somewhat practical weapons.
>>29358317
Boom sticks and go fuck yourself
>>29358317
Just because a couple of Zipperhead officers haphazardly carved up surrendered Chinese peasants with shitty dress swords does not mean that the East retained their knowledge of sword fighting.
>>29358317
actually if you'd bother to look into it you can hear that there's been a resurgence in WMA (Western Martial Arts) mostly in Britain and Italy, there's three or four schools in Britain mostly teaching Longsword and Saber (not the faggoty thin ones with a bunch of rules about feet, boarding sabers, the ones used on horseback or on ships) and you can still learn from books today, I personally recommend Alfred Hutton's Cold Steel, The Art of Fencing with a Saber, as it teaches all major stances, how to parry properly, riposte, all the good jazz. Fuck man we used sabers to take most of India, so clearly we did something right, which is why we need to learn what we were doing.
>>29358835
Note how military saber is only one school (several schools maybe if you want to count different regional and national styles, but still...) There might be similar somewhat continuous traditions for rapier and smallsword, but things like sword and buckler, longsword, poleaxe... we only know about because someone wrote it down. I've never read about a treatise concerning fighting with the shield and spear or sword though, which was arguably the most important fighting style since the roman times.
>>29358317
As said, some very few late developments of the martial arts that kept their relevance where retained in living tradition. As for the rest, there was no reason to retain it, any more than for retaining the drill to load and fire a matchlock musket. Neither will be relevant in a war ever again.
>>29359096
Actually, the US has entire forts devoted to retaining the knowledge of drilling and reloading matchlocks and certain communities who use em' to hunt.
>>29359128
Eh... maybe it's a bad example. Then again, did they exist ever since matchlocks were actually used? I think it more likely these were started well after matchlocks lost importance and learned it from books (like HEMA does).
Constantly changing culture, occasional plagues killing millions, regime changes, etc
>>29359096
US Cavalry was still horse-mounted and using gun and saber up to the start of WWII, in fact. This one, designed by then 2LT George S. Patton, in fact, the M1913, was the last model issued.
>>29359096
Space travel will cause a resurgence of melee combat.
Zero G ship boarding when?!
>>29358317
>>29358317
/k/ommando there are a lot of fucking things that would have to go wrong and right with the world for the art of sword fighting to be necessary again.
Or you would need to be a Gurka out of ammunition and down to nothing but your Kukri and a bent to shit machine gun tripod.
Although I'd love to see what a Murrican martial art would be that wasn't a blatant copy of other martial arts.
>>29359903
Well train our copious Niggers in monkey-fu
>>29359214
Also ironically enough one of the best standard issue swords ever made.
>>29359835
No it won't.
>>29358317
The west and east both commonly used swords well into the early 1900s.
The western swords changed over time due to armor evolving with armor piercing projectile and metallurgy technology. The rapier, the cutlass, and the broadsword are very different.
The east evolved their armor and weapons very little so didn't have to "rewrite" the way to use their weapons vs armor. The West had its tactics changing 2, 3, 4, times a century due to technological advancements being weaponized.
Plus the west got gunpowder from the east and our first thought was "how can we fuck shit up with this?" so we did. After cavalry became obsolete from tanks, so did the sword. Any use of them after that was either in a less advanced society or as a decorative/status symbol.
>>29358389
Japan is so cucked that even swords need to be put in registration and aling with a shit ton of paperwork, building restrictions. In short, they're as regulated as a firearm
>>29359972
>>29359972
Boxing would probably suffice.
Some of those niggas are pretty legit in their street grown ability.
Too bad Kimbo Slice didn't work on his honkeychubalublub ground defense.
>>29358317
West has its own sword sports in fencing.
>>29360002
Why not?
I'd imagine using projectiles on any ship would turn out horrible considering you could miss and destroy the only barrier between everyone on board and cold, cold space.
Melee would be used at first to stop this.
>>29358394
>this
I mean, think about it: if we consider the "Western World" we have Europe and the Americas.
With the more or less total destruction of native American culture, and the fact that this was happening at the dawn of the age of the modern firearm it's no surprise the West sees them as being superior to things like swords and lances. Combine that with the industrial revolution and the obviously poor performance of such weapons on the WW1 battlefields and it's clear to see that the West sees them as antiques of an age long since past.
>>29359903
Uh, MMA?
Or wait, let me guess, you were under the impression that we have a meaningful national identity tied to ethnicity and a mutual point of origin?
The USA only exists because we're willing to take your shit and work on it till we're better at it than you are.
>>29358317
Our Middle Ages was 400+ years ago. Japan's was damn near within living memory.
Thank God our ancestors documented the hell out of *their* martial arts, or we'd be floundering in the dark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohmLaZHStmI&feature=iv&src_vid=Kj4Ng6DBfrg&annotation_id=annotation_463192
>>29360230
I like how you can clearly see which extras saw Harrison draw and which didn't know the gunshot was coming.
>>29360246
Yeah...apparently that scene was made up on the spot, and their reactions were pretty genuine.
as soon as I read OP's post I thought of this scene, and it pretty sums up why the west doesn't give a fuck about swords anymore
>>29360122
or we could wear pressure suits IF boarding actions ever come about.
IF.
The West discovered these things called spears (and polearms in general, really) that made a swarm of barely-trained peasants equal to an expert mounted swordsman.
>>29358389
>China was poor as shit, communists and generally gave no fucks about peasants and so they sent troops into battle in WW2 with swords.
that's some 40k tier grimdark retardation
>>29358317
Sword fighting is anything but easy. It's an art that takes many years to master, and there are many martial weapons that are more effective in the hands of a novice, the halberd being a notable example.
I would say that sword fighting has been romanticized, and that it was far less common than we're led to believe. Sword fighting belongs to an era where it was more practical to field a small but very skillful army. However, as the populations of the world increased, so did also the ability to field larger armies. Lets remember that war is just as much about fighting as it is about the socioeconomic machinery the army is built upon.
So have the west lost its knowledge of sword fighting? To this question, let me ask you; Does everyone in japan know how to wield a katana?
>>29360326
honestly, so did the east. in Chinese marital arts, the spear is the "king of the weapons", and the sword is more of either a peasant soldier's weapon (dao) or a scholar's self-defense weapon (gim). the samurai's main weapon was the yari or nagainta, with the sword as a (you guessed it) self-defense weapon on the battlefield. and even with the knights, the lance was one of their primary weapons on the battlefield. maces, flails, swords, and warhammers were more anti-armor self-defense weapons.
>>29358317
The east didnt in the way you are thinking. There are some surviving practitoners and schools of actual authentic swordsmanship, but the vast majority of what you are probably thinking of when it comes to eastern sword 'knowledge' is not really martial, its sport or show. All the fancy asian sword fighting you see in movies would get you killed in real life.
That said there is undeniably an unbroken chain, as some traditional schools did survive whereas the west forgot it in less than a century of obsolescence.
I guess asians just more traditional.
To be fair to the west sport fencing was nowhere near as removed from actual sword fighting back when we dropped actual sword fighting.
>>29360395
some unbroken chains of traditionalism are fucking retarded.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XachvUg40o
>>29360269
The seen was an improvisation since a good majority of the cast and crew had dysentery or some other acute lower GI affliction at the time. I believe when they filmed that particular seen, it was the 3rd or 4th take and Harrison Ford had dysentery for the past week and was tired of that shit.
>>29358317
You just listened King of Kings II, didn't you OP?
>>29358317
Fuck you tenno
>>29358317
Do your research. Japan loved guns but because the shogunates didnt want to give up "muh honor" they slowly phased them out. It was only until the meiji restoration that they reintroduced them back into the jap armies, to much success I might add.
Also the western world (if youre talking about NA exclusively) never used swords in its entire lifetime.
>>29358317
because half of the western world in America and we pretty much have always had guns
>>29360905
>Also the western world (if youre talking about NA exclusively) never used swords in its entire lifetime.
Canada, the USA and Mexico did all use swords. And Western world includes Europe or at least parts of it.
>>29358317
>tfw George S Patton trained with military fencing masters in France, and wrote a cavalry saber manual for the US Army in 1914.
>tfw Patton designed a new cavalry saber for the US Army in 1913
>tfw mechanized warfare means you will never lead a cavalry charge into battle, stabbing your enemies with the Patton 1913 saber, according to the Patton saber manual of 1914.
Why even live, anon?
>>29360905
>NA never used swords
There were many battles fought on horseback with sabers dumbshit. Look up battle of eutaw springs.
The western world just gravitated to firearms as they became more efficient than swords, while japs and melinnials white kids circle jerked over superior Nippon curture.
Riddle me this: how did those bonsai charges turn out when it was fixed bayonet and katana v .30 cal and flamethrowers?
>>29359987
"Best"
Possibly the most well-made what with modern technology, though the difference would be negligible. As for design, it's obviously a pure thrusting sword, which was not first choice of cavalry before the early 1900s.
>>29358317
because they didn't and modern kempo would make the old nippon masters commit seppuku in shame
>hurr but muh uninterrupted traditionuuuuuu
modern "masters" can do matched setforms and push around thier untrained students because they don't teach effectively for the very purpose of retaining mysticism. throw them in a suit of armor and tell them to free spar and suddenly the excuses start flying.
>>29360006
Cavalry became obsolete from repeating rifles and machineguns, not tanks.
>>29359214
>Designed by George Fucking Patton
>took advantage of 20th century metallurgy
Honestly I'd be surprised if it WASN'T a good sword.
>>29360326
Everyone used spears or other pole arms
The sword was just as much of a side arm in japan as it was in england.
>>29358317
There's actually a good reason why the sword became outdated. Rifles with bayonets exceeded the fighting effectiveness of swords. The British proved this when they put down a Scottish rebellion a long ass time ago. The Scots were using swords and shields while the British linemen were using Muskets with bayonets attached. The rifle/bayonets had much greater rangy and essentially worked as pikes, allowing the Brits to easily defeat the Scots in a melee fight after their first volley had been fired.
I wish I could find a link on this, and take it with a grain of salt as this story was relayed to me by a British Soldier while at a bus stop in Afghanistan.
>>29360345
Check out "Big sword unit", don't know yet if it's very badass or very suicidal, or both...
>>29365038
Muskets aren't rifles ffs. Stop triggering my autism.
>>29358317
Because they didn't.
Officers still carried blades in the Japanese army as a badge of authority, as for hundreds of years the peasantry wheren't allowed swords.
one reason you, and many others believe the east "retain" that knowledge is that Martial arts, both unarmed and armed, where given a high priority after WW2 to give the populace a vent for energy and aggression without attacking the American occupation.
>>29360428
Because that's the only thing they show you.
It may look fucking retarded, but what would you do if three of them were to attack you with 4ft long blades at night from three different positions ? Because that was there mo during.
>>29365019
But many of the old schools put suits of armor and free spar... So...?
>>29365079
>lying on the internet
practicing choreography and teaching students to pose and react to things a certain way, then doing something else to show how you're the second coming of musashi is cringey as fuck.
>>29358757
There are plenty of examples of saber being used even in the time of proper rifles existing
>Another Russian followed in shouting in defiance to the Japanese, and as he came on, a Japanese officer hurried to meet him. The two closed in an Homeric hand-to-hand in sight of the two armies and as they whirled their swords at each side rent the air with cheers. Now It seemed that the Russian was winning and the Russians thundered applause. Now again the Japanese had the upper hand, and hoarse ” Banzais ! ” rose from the Hiroshima infantry. Then the Russian went down before the skillful swordplay of his opponent, and a moment later he lay a corpse upon the hill
This was from 1904
>>29365086
Many schools of the late 18th, early 19th century do spar (early gekiken), some modern-ish Koryu like Jikishinkage-ryu Naginata-do definitely spar (as Draeger noted). If you read Amdur's experience of Araki-ryu, they definitely sparred in non pre-arranged settings, just because you've never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Then again I'll admit they are the rarer of the two, yet it's not like swordsmanship is of any practical use so...
>muh sowrds this muh swords that
Most fighting was with spears and arrows. You'd be surprised how effective a few lines of archers would be against a modern army, let alone a line of musket riflemen.
>>29365094
Wasn't this story about a serb rather than a russian though ? Lekso Saičić ?
>>29365113
>Thread is about swords
>Complaining that people are taking about swords
Do you say people are stupid because they talk about a pistol when rifles exist?
>>29365107
>18th-19th century schools
>uninterrupted tradition
>if you read a bunch of shit about dead zipperheads then...
right now in japan outside of kendo non choreographed sword fighting in a "traditional" setting doesn't exist. kempo is a fucking joke if you consider it combat training; as an homage to muh honorabu warrior culturaruuuu it's just cringey as fuck if you aren't japanese.
We didn't lose knowledge of swords, we just turned them into something better.
>>29365131
What is kempo to you ? I fail to see what you mean by that as it has many meanings in japanese.
And you are just wrong sorry, Jikishinkage-ryu Naginata-do has kendo-like sparring, they frequently spar with kendo people for that matter. D. Draeger and E. Amdur were/are american btw...
I mean, it's ok if you haven't heard about the few schools that spar, but some did and still do, especially the later ones. If you consider kendo sparring enough, many koryu still do the same type of sparring.
>>29365120
This was during the russo-japanese war, Battle of Telisse, June 14th 1904
>>29358317
>>29358389
I think it has to do more with the revival and promotion of Japanese culture after the westernization in the 19th century.
And I think the west gave up on swords after the western trial by fire of WWI.
Just a guess though. What does 4chan think?
I guess with all these Star Wars kids many western guys believe they would know how to fight with swords. But only few do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djo_91jN3Pk
>>29365150
Mechanized slings are not swords
>>29365160
>D. Draeger and E. Amdur were/are american btw...
so not japs then.
>but modern westerners dress up as samurai and go at 3/4 speed with bokken!
>kendo like sparring
kendo is a "combat sport" in the same way olympic fencing is. IE it isn't. You can only strike the head and have pretty much one stance to stand in and have to call your shots like fucking pool in some cases. putting on a shitload of padding and hitting each other with sticks in a controlled environment isn't that impressive or evidence of "muh honarabru uninterupted tradition!" like OP thinks.
the japanese samurai class was abolished in 1870 and nip samurai boners didn't pop up again until they needed a way to convince people to play skewer the baby in manchuria with their machine press manufactured "katana".
>cave dwelling troglodytes
Or
>non shitskin people with firearms that rule with world now without swords
Gee I wonder
Enjoy your dial up connection you stupid faggot
>>29365274
So German mensur is the only real swordsmanship?
>>29365113
You'd be surprised how ineffective arrows are against munitions grade plate and helmets, and also how expensive bows and arrows are compared to muskets.
>>29365120
>>29365094
One of you says the russian lost and the other says he won.
Are these two different encounters?
>>29365172
Yeah.. It was WWfuckingI that made the west abandoned swords.
>>29365113
>line of archers gets set up
>gets picked off from 300m away by riflemen
>>29360152
>it's no surprise the West sees them as
>the West sees them as
"Sees them as". DO you really have to be this fucking politically correct?
In terms of warfare swords ARE OBJECTIVELY inferior to firearms.
I know we have to be careful these days when comparing cultchas but please don't be this much of a faggot.
>Why did the Western world lose their knowledge of sword fighting but the East retain theirs?
>What is fencing
>What is a bayonet
And it wouldn't surprise me if horse polo has roots in cutting down people from horseback.
>>29365631
>And it wouldn't surprise me if horse polo has roots in cutting down people from horseback.
It's a pretty much acknowledged fact.
Japanese didn't have firearm tech (at least not in widespread use) until the europeans arrived in the 18th and 19th centuries.
The West dropped swords (in favour of muskets and pikemen, and then eventually just muskets and bayonets as tech progressed) hundreds of years earlier.
Also let's not forget that the Japs swordfighting prowess was non-existant, and their swords were shit. It was a status symbol. The celts had been folding their swords 2000 years before the Japs realised they could, and by then the Celts had discovered better ore and so they didn't need to rely on the folding practice in order to get decent swords. 'Samurai' fought with bows from horseback and spears on foot, the sword was for executing prisoners or chopping up unarmed and unarmoured peasant revolts.
Also HEMA (historical european martial arts) is pretty popular, especially in large cities where people can afford to waste their money on useless shit rather than having to work.
>>29365631
>wouldn't surprise me if horse polo has roots in cutting down people from horseback
http://sportpolo.com/History/default.htm
Was created to help train cavalry, you're right nigga.
>>29365649
Japanese had hundreds of thousands of guns by the late 16th century... copied from the european ones, but still.
Their swords were used as much as the european ones, that is in battle not that much really, still. European had swords as status symbol too, it doesn't mean it wasn't commonly used.
Also, if their swordfighting prowess was non-existant, how come european officers in the 19th century thought highly of them ?
>>29365667
Same reason people think highly of them today. Fucking memery and 'legends'.
Japanese samurai swords post-16th century were exactly the same in terms of usage as officers swords from any European country (except those officer swords from Europe were far more well-designed because they sometimes actually had to use them against other armed combatants and not peasants. Katanas are unwieldy and heavy, they're only good for step-through slicing and that doesn't work shit when the opponent is armed and knows what to do, which is why Europeans eventually arrived at long swords, rapiers and bayonets, stabbing is a far more effective method of fighting, especially against armour. It's also why the weapon of choice for Samurai and everyone else in Japanese conflicts was the pike (or their derivative of it) or the bow, not the sword. ).
>>29365649
>Also HEMA (historical european martial arts) is pretty popular, especially in large cities where people can afford to waste their money on useless shit rather than having to work.
Well, what people do in their spare time is there business. I don't do HEMA but its probably more interesting than spandex and bicycles if you want to be active.
>>29365597
>>29365172
I should have clarified.
I think the idea of a soldier using swords was fading come pre WWI, but the raw brutality of that war finished any hope of the "honor" or "glory" that comes with idea of the sword.
After all, a lot of countries went into it thinking it'd be like the Franco Prussian war, in which cavalry was still a big player.
>>29359987
I'm sure the last buggy-whip was amazing too
>>29365649
>Also HEMA (historical european martial arts) is pretty popular, especially in large cities where people can afford to waste their money on useless shit rather than having to work.
how dare people spend money on hobbies
>>29365688
>stabbing is a far more effective method of fighting
Oh really... so I guess all the cavalry sabres focused on cutting like the polish ones, the 1796 LCS and so on were stupid too ?
Also, you're free to believe that British and French officers of the late 19th century, who had actual fighting under their belt, who stated that the japanese were impressive fighters, were lying memers but well...
There's a lot of mystic to the japanese sword, but this is just uninformed, uninterested bashing that actually not even european swordsmen past and present agree with.
>>29358317
We didn't as we have HEMA
Also boom boom you're dead was adopted as gentlemanly and honorable
>>29365009
>As for design, it's obviously a pure thrusting sword, which was not first choice of cavalry before the early 1900s.
>>29359214
>US Cavalry was still horse-mounted and using gun and saber up to the start of WWII, in fact
I'm pretty sure that cavalry circa WW2 were only ever thought of as mounted infantry.
Though there was still "cavalry" the "cavalry charge" was a long-dead concept even for the most conservative commanders.
>>29365720
"bang bang bang!"
>>29360435
Guilty as charged
>>29358389
basically this.
The West was much more focused on technological advancement and didn't give a shit. It should still be noted that up until WWI swords were still used in war. So it's not like the West "lost" their sword martial arts hundreds of years ago.
>>29360380
this is partly true, partly BS. By, say, the 18th and 19th centuries, soldiers were given a standard training regimen with a sabre, and very basic and quick to learn systems were developed. So yes, becoming some expert sword master takes years. But it doesn't take long to get a basic set of skills that will get you through a battle.
>>29365631
of course it does. in the middle east they play similar games on horseback where they have a lance and have to ride by and spear it through a small ring. Many sports like that come from martial training.
anyways OP, you could boil it down to a few points:
1) Japan was still basically medieval in the 18th and 19th century. And after that, the god-emperor exaggerated all the bushido shit to make people militaristic and nationalistic and they pushed the ideas of the noble samurai willing to die in battle, and gave officers shitty mass-produced swords as a propaganda or symbolic tool.
2) the west was still using swords in war up until WWI. There was a period where medieval and renaissance sword fighting was lost, but in the 19th century it was revived, and the 21st century has seen astronomical advances in HEMA (HEMAfag here).
>>29358317
OP, Otto's face would like a word with you.
>>29360428
Ain't nothing wrong with screaming bloody murder during an attack. Worked well enough for Johnny Reb.
>tfw we could have had rudimentary audio recordings of the civil war if only a war correspondent were willing to carrying around a barrel and a fuck ton of paper ribbons
>>29365717
>Talking about infantry swords and how they were almost universally designed to stab due to advancements in armour
>Brings up cavalry sabres
Ofcourse cavalry sabres aren't going to stab because you'd lose your weapon you fucking mongoloid. Try using a fucking Katana one handed on a horse, though. Be my guest. Mounted samurai used bows almost exclusively when on horseback.
Katanas are FAR too heavy and unwieldly to be swinging around one armed for any length of time, which is why European cavalry blades were thinner and lighter.
>>29365787
I mispoke, cavalry sabres (later ones at least) were able to stab pretty effectively as they dropped the curved blade in favour of straight, sharpened blades to a tip, but I was talking in generalities and the stabbing tip wasn't typically going to be used while mounted, my point still stands.
>>29365787
>Ofcourse cavalry sabres aren't going to stab because you'd lose your weapon you fucking mongoloid.
Oh but then how come Patton, the imperial French and the early 20th century british (among others) designed thrusting cavalry swords then ? Guess Patton and the others were idiotic mongoloids too...
Also, the japanese swords started as one handed cavalry swords so you're uninformed views are showing.
Japanese swords are just as heavy and "unwieldy" as one and half hand european swords for that matter.
>>29365817
Read my follow up post you fucking spastic.
But no, the Japanese, some isolated island still using roman era swordsmithing techniques, were just so smart and mystical that their poorly designed (and made) swords were just so magical.
T-they could cut through machine gun barrels, y-you know!
>>29360428
Would the average Japanese person of around 20-30 years respect these guys or think it's kind of fucking gay?
>>29365836
>Read my follow up post you fucking spastic.
Oh you realize you spout out nonsense and tried damage control, sweet...
Nice strawman btw, I'll let you go for senseless katana-bashing that no people who are into swords really care about.
>>29365837
They would certainly view them as weird, then again, Jigen-ryu is a very famous and respected sword school especially because of the actions of its disciples in the late Edo era.
It's definitely uncommon compared to other kenjutsu schools, but that's part of the whole thing, also, there isn't much shown but conditionning there, it's not techniques, just exercises for proper spirit and breathing. Once you are trained that way, you won't "overthink" during a fight, you just go and cut no matter what is in front of you.
Students of this school used to do 10000 cuts at trees for building intent and strength, their methods were quite strange but well... apparently it worked.
>>29358317
There's fencing. Which is a classy sport reserved for the upper echelons of society.
It's not like the common European peasant back then wielded swords and neither did Asian peasants too.
>>29365865
>Reality
>Damage control
Fucking weebs.
>>29365883
>apparently it worked.
How do you figure?
>>29358317
When will swords become relevant again?
>>29365900
We have accounts of the late Edo era encounters between disciples of the Jigen-ryu and the edo police and the shinsengumi (special militia). The police were apparenty terrified of them, there main strategy was night attacks with sabres against any soldier or police officers that would come up and they used to leave the mutilate bodies of the officers around the streets for reminders.
There was free combat in the early 20th century, 1900's and 1910's, people of the Jigen-ryu competed against other kenjutsuka and early-kendoka and we know they made very well, especially because of the psychological impact their style was carrying.
On a funny note, their basic technique (entering with an ascending reverse cut and continuing with a vertical slash to the neck) is pretty much the same as the "italian universal parry" from Fiore to the Bolognese tradition. Good ideas comes similar for different sources I guess.
>>29365937
why does it have a belt clip?
>>29365318
Mensur is highly stylized and ritualized with opponents standing a fixed distance apart with a single legit target to hit and wearing protective gear. It's basically the over-complicated version of getting a frat tattoo.
>>29365318
Yes
>>29358835
>we used sabres to take most of India
No, no we didn't. We mostly used politics.
>>29365787
>ounted samurai used bows almost exclusively when on horseback.
Bullshit.
The Takeda clan was well known for their cavalry charges and as the battle of Mikatagahara actually managed to best Tokugawa guns.
>>29365937
Not soon. Maybe if anti-gun laws get passed. I can see an entire generation of sword canes showing up.
>>29360022
Pretty sure Slice got most of his losses from getting punched out. I didn't watch too many of his fights but from what I understand he had decent ground game but bad footwork.
>>29360122
>board enemy ship in pressure suit
>punch hole in ship with gun
>laugh as defenders go blue
Honestly though I hope your kidding.
>>29364995
Except that he pointed at that Japan very quickly adopted guns, they got a few and then from then on it was all self made.
As for Banzai charges, they were mostly spontaneous, there aren't many documented cases of them being ordered. Really though, they were hugely ineffective against anyone but poorly trained Chinese conscripts.
>>29365021
Musket and cannon really.
>>29366143
I'd still take the facial scars
>>29359987
a thrusting sword for cavalry? sod that, pattern 1797 light cavalry saber or 1797 heavy cavalry if you lack finesse.
>>29358317
Sword fighting on European battlefields was extremely relevant a few 100 years ago.
NE-Asian countries had a technological gap to bridge when modernizing the Armed forces.
So while the west had tine to slowly phase out swordsmanship the east still had some living knowledge of it to keep as tradition.
Without interest of people keeping the martial art alive as a hobby the east would also loose the fighting styles during the next few hundred years in the same way the west did.
>>29366446
Kimbo slice has zero ground game, what the fuck are you talking about?
>>29360513
God damn the swordplay in Warframe is every bit as retarded as the gunplay.
>>29366143
>It's basically the over-complicated version of getting a frat tattoo.
Nicely put.
>>29359128
The fuck are you talking about? I've lived in the US my whole life and never seen anyone using a matchlock.
>>29367355
I used to work with a guy that was basically kimbo-lite. Used to be a golden glove, only ever focused on strength training and juicing, whole claim to fame was "I'm stronger than you". Well not shit son you spend most of your checks on supplement and gold teeth. Always talking mad shit. It was worth the price of admission to watch 0-8 record unfold. The panic every time a grapple happened was beautiful
>>29358317
No.
Western fencing is far more advanced than eastern techniques. It may not appeal to teenage logic but western fencing is the fastest swordplay there is and the thrust is more lethal than the cut
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ST1wRzfgmI
>>29368024
Fencing is sword fighting.
Kendo is the idea of sword fighting.
>>29365021
There was a cavalry charge on tanks in WWII. I'm not arguing that their effectiveness wasn't greatly diminished after repeating rifles and tanks, but they were still used by all major powers in WWII, including the US.
>>29368151
>Buying the the nazi propaganda
>Implying the poles weren't a decent fighting force, but were totally unprepared for the new tactics used
>>29368186
>Implying the poles weren't a decent fighting force
They were, but I still don't think one should deny they were clinging to their outdated "winged hussars" bullshit tighter than they should have.
>>29358317
It's complicated but the short of it is that Europe went through the enlightenment the slow way, with pikes overtaking lances, guns overtaking pikes, printing presses taking over for scholars, rationalism taking over spirituality, machines overtake muscles.
Most of Asia rushed through this process. Japan only started industrializing in 1868 and they were considered ahead of the curve. Japan as it is today is only about 150 years from it's feudal roots.
Ask any asian person if they know how to swordfight
you'll probably get spit on
>>29368264
But they really never actually charged at tanks with horses.
>>29368024
>Western fencing is far more advanced than eastern techniques.
There is no "western fencing" or "eastern fencing", there are a lot of different schools of thought, lots of different masters etc. no universal type of "eastern fencing".
Besides, the thrust may be more lethal than the cut (and that is in the grand schemes of things), but cuts have its uses that thrusts don't have (against crowds for instance), they are both important and have both contexts where they are advantageous.
>>29365150
So aesthetic
>You'll never impale Jerry on your massive bayonet
>You'll never slowly pull your 17" blade out of his gushing hole and watch him crumple at your feet
>You'll never work your bolt hard and dump hot brass on his face from shooting your thick lead load into his friends
Why even live?
Swords were outdone by bows, then there were further advances in bows, then guns became viable. No need to stay in the past, especially with regards to means of killing each other. It's the human way. Fall behind, die off.
>>29358317
www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0jCbEzRYq8
>>29368264
They weren't though. No Poles ever charged tanks on horseback. Ever. At all.
It's not like the Germans weren't using Cavalry in Poland either.....
>>29368598
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_at_Krojanty
>As late as the 1990s, this myth was still taught in history classes in American high schools and colleges
Jesus Christ
Theres a reason why the Boxer Rebellion failed
>>29368151
Correct quite very successful Italian raiders in north>>29368151
Africa and there was a mass Italian charge on the eastern front.
Guillet's most important battle happened towards the end of January 1941 at Cherù when he decided to attack enemy armoured units. At the end of 1940, the allied forces faced Guillet on the road to Amba Alagi, and specifically, in the proximity of Cherù. He was entrusted by Duca Amedeo Of Aosta with the task of delaying the allied advance from the North-West. The battles and skirmishes in which this young lieutenant was a protagonist (Amedeo did not have the appropriates rank, but he commanded an entire brigade) are boldly written in the British bulletins of war. The "devilries" that he created from day to day, almost seen as a game, explains why the British called him not only "Knight from other times" but also the Italian "Lawrence of Arabia". Horse charges with unsheathed sword, guns, incendiary and hand bombs against the armoured troops had a daily cadence. A look at official documents show that in January 1941 at Cherù "... with the task of protecting the withdrawal of the battalions... with skillful maneuver and intuition of a commander... In an entire day of furious combats on foot and horseback, he charged many times while leading his units, assaulting the preponderant adversary (in number and means) soldiers of an enemy regiment, setting tanks on fire, reaching the flank of the enemy's artilleries
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amedeo_Guillet
Charge of the Savoia Cavalleria at Isbuscenskij
Though a minor skirmish in the theatre of operation of the Eastern Front, the Isbushenskij charge had a great propaganda resonance in Italy and it is still remembered as one of the last cavalry charges in history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_of_the_Savoia_Cavalleria_at_Isbuscenskij
>>29368662
I'm more surprised that they bother teaching something that spsecific.
Then again I learnt about Custer at school and I'm a Bong, fuck knows what some tit getting his shit pushed in by Pawnee or Cherokee (or whatever tribe it was) has to do with me...
>>29368680
I'm more surprised that there are High Schools that mention Poland in the US.
>>29368598
>>29368662
>>29368680
Of course the element of this equation you're probably willfully ignoring is that Poles themselves perpetuated this myth for "the glory" etc.
>>29368746
proofs tovarish ))))))))))))))
>>29368746
I was only pointing out that it was bollocks (>>29368598 and >>29368680), not who said it was bollocks.
>>29368793
>"If a single image dominates the popular perception of the Polish campaign of 1939, it is the scene of Polish cavalry bravely charging the Panzers with their lances. Like many other details of the campaign, it is a myth that was created by German wartime propaganda and perpetuated by sloppy scholarship. Yet such myths have also been embraced by the Poles themselves as symbols of their wartime gallantry, achieving a cultural resonance in spite of their variance with the historical record.".
Poland 1939 — The birth of Blitzkrieg
- Zaloga, Steven J (2002),
>>29368850
>myths have also been embraced by the Poles
>>29368746
Poles themselves perpetuated myths
See, the key word is myths, the Poles know it didn't happen, doesn't mean it is embraced as a piece of their heritage. Still the Germans who tried to present it as a straight up fact.
>>29369106
>perpetuate
>make (something) continue indefinitely.
I see no contradiction here
>>29365059
Not modern auto firing rifles anyway.....
>>29369202
Keeping a myth alive doesn't mean that you created it dipshit.
>>29369326
When did anyone ever say the Poles "created" it?
It's not like sword-fighting is an Olympic sport or anything.
I'm only slightly familiar with Japanese history, but I'm pretty sure during the 1600s samurai/fencing/warrior culture had died down to the point where the "samurai" were only politicians/nobles and that by the Tokugawa(?) era they had also forgotten their martial arts? And that it and "Bushido" was only revived to combat western imperialism and drum up nationalism centuries after Samurai warriors were relevant in Japan?
>>29369408
>olympic fencing is the same as sword fighting
Look up HEMA
>>29369468
Yeah, not interested in a bunch of fedora-wielding fucktards patting themselves on the back because they think they're real swordfighters between fistfuls of cheetos and swigs of Mountain Dew.
Western sword traditions evolved into sporting traditions. That is what is alive. People who are totally not LARPing are just looking at pictures in books they don't understand and acting out what they think could be correct. They are mallninja-tier.
>>29359835
>Zero G ship boarding when?!
Never.
Only in Star Wars and other soft sci-fi could anything so stupid happen.
>>29369448
You're thinking of the Meiji era that started in the mid-19th Century. The Nips still had swordsmen in their secret police until they restructured their government and went full-thought police on those who wanted to keep any part of the shogunate/samurai/bushido tradition.
>>29360122
>Why not?
So many fucking reasons.
The distance between 2 warships would be really difficult to imagine. Also imagine how much fuel it would take to halt all of one ships forward momentum and then match another ship's trajectory, and then dock.
There might someday be space boarding parties, but I can only imagine them being used to accept surrenders.
Enuff about nippon please. Because the middle Easterners still like their swords. Terrorist attacks on British troops in Jordan and other places mainly involved swords, and many of those tribes have knives and hunting daggers meant to be carried once the males have come of age. It's mainly because of how we killed our blade culture, and banned duelling (great shame desu.) Whilst the middle east still had fights and regular conflicts where both sides still had large amounts of bladed weapons.
>>29360122
>I'd imagine using projectiles on any ship would turn out horrible considering you could miss and destroy the only barrier between everyone on board and cold, cold space.
You mean just like how small arms poke holes in aircraft carriers and subs right?
wait no, that's retarded
>>29369448
Nope, that's wrong. There was always a warrior culture in Japan. The samurai thing didn't disappear until the Meiji era. While Martial arts became less lethal and more sports-like throughout the modern era.
>>29369391
Some anon pointed out that the Germans made the cavalry charge shit up, then someone else popped in and started sperging about the Poles being partly to blame.
We were just pointing out that they didn't start it in the first place.
>>29369705
>Some anon pointed out that the Germans made the cavalry charge shit up
Actually it was an Italian reporter.
And the Germans capitalized on it.
And the Poles never denied it because it sounded cool.
So yes, they're all to blame for retards in 2016 thinking it actually happened.
Now go drink some bleach.
>>29369516
Why are you so salty? I think Costa and buck angle are cringemy as shit (well, Costa actually seems like a fun guy) but I don't get ads pained because people like sports shooting.
Are you 12?
>>29369750
>now go drink some bleach
How mature of you.
>>29369757
It's spring break. Like a mini summer.
>>29369835
Oh that makes sense. :^)
>>29359987
>Also ironically enough one of the best standard issue swords ever made.
Ahem...
>>29369516
Not as fedora tier as someone screaming "stop liking what I don't like".
>(you)
>>29365722
As the conflict started they transitioned into Jeeps and pure recon roles, but they trained on horse up until that point.
>>29365175
Even in star wars swords were defeated by guns by skillful use of dakka
>>29358317
Crossbows, pikes, maces
>>29369324
Not a rifle of any kind anon
a musket is necessarily a smoothbore firearm, NOT a rifle
>>29369587
Not him, but there's a big fucking difference between a submarine's hull and the thin ceramics and alloys of most space vessels.
>>29369516
So much stupidity here...
>>29368024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH8auVrYL3M
>>29358317
>Why did the Western world lose their knowledge of sword fighting
we didn't
>>29359903
Here's the thing, we've only been a nation for like 240 years, Japan, China, have been nations for about 2000.
Why fix something that isn't broken eh, besides that, hand to hand combat has been dying as long as we as a nation have existed.
>>29368024
fun fact:
The shinai has a "blade" shorter than a rapier, and the epee a "blade" longer than the katana.
Comparing the two distorted simulations of sword-fighting makes as much sense as organizing a drag race between a tricycle and a unicycle to demonstrate the use of motorbikes during the 2nd world war.
>>29368134
Kendo is quickly hitting each other with bamboo sticks,
pretending to be sword-fighting.
Sport fencing is quickly poking and whipping each other with thin sticks,
pretending to be sword fighting.
... they seem to have more in common with each other than with historical combat.
>>29358317
Technology and trends superseded tradition. Archery use to be more honorable and high class 300 years before Nobunaga used wheel lock muskets to wreck all the samurai swordfighting schools.
>>29368662
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_at_Krojanty
>>29368680
I think what I was taught about Poland in WWII was that horse-back cavalry was basically all they had, so when Germany came storming across the border with tanks, the Poles just sent what they could to try and stop them.
>>29368703
I know U.S. schools aren't the best, but the students (& their parents) are half the problem.... I remember back in HS this chick asked me if WWI or WWII was the one with Hitler. She really should have known by then. Man she was fucking hot, too.
