Other than "they're scary", what are the logical reasons behind the 1934 NFA and the 1986 ban? How is a SBR more dangerous than a regular rifle? How are full automatic weapons more dangerous than semi-automatic weapons? Are these acts justifiable?
Easily concealed
and because more bullets is more deadly
>>29351586
but pistols are more concealable
>>29351611
but they shoot pistol rounds, this is why we invented ar pistols
>>29351550
Bonny and Clyde era. Criminals with automatic weapons had more firepower than police.
>>29351550
In they days leading up to the Hughes Amendment, drug cartels were using machine guns to protect their drugs. A Registered Machine Gun is as dangerous as an Unregistered Machine Gun, so we had to get rid of them.
>>29351611
But pistols are not good weapons to get into gunfights with, they are more defensive in nature.
Pulling out a thompson SMG is going to be a hell of a lot more effective, just wear a looong coat.
>>29351629
Drug cartels still use machine guns to protect their shit tho.
>>29351550
I'm sure if you could actually do your homework, you could find out work for word why those bans where passed. And I guarantee "they're scary" is not mentioned once.
But since you would rather take /k/s word for it...
>Criminals like easily concealable firearms, hitmen to stick-up kids.
>Mass shooters like lots of bang-bang in short periods of time.
The point being intent, not more or less lethal.
>>29351650
and when the alphabet soup starts making sense you will have a valid argument
>>29351645
You have a point. But can you explain why a semi is considered less dangerous than full auto?
>>29351626
>this
>>29351650
>Not in america lol.
Basically at some point the criminal, murderer, nutjob, outnumbered the responsible patriotic American. And most hardworking people dont want to get into fucking gunfights on the daily. Hence why most people find it favorable to hire police.
>>29351698
Because everyone fails to compare North Hollywood to Charles Whitman.
>>29351698
Because with a fully automatic weapon, you could set up a dug in position and accurately dispense 200-2000 rounds per minuet depending on what weapon you have. I dont care how fast your finger is, you cannot pull that thing 1200 time's per minuet (the rate of fire of a mac-11)
>>29351611
They were supposed to be on the original NFA too
>>29351611
Handguns were carved out of the NFA as a compromise.
It almost makes sense why it is the way it is in that context. I'm just sad that there are so many great cartridges that are optimized for a sub-16" barrel so you're left with a "pistol" or the "fuck my ass tax"
>>29351765
You're not going to lay down accurate suppressive fire with a fucking Mac and even before Hughes FA of the style capable of suppressive fire was still prohibitively expensive compared to an HBAR and a cmag
>there is no factual logic behind NFA, it was created by people who have never been in the same room as a legal privately owned NFA item let alone have knowledge or experience in proper use.
>>29351765
>suppressive fire
>accurate
>mac-11
So much idiocy.
Are these laws justifiable because of the context in which they were passed?
>>29351831
No, because a hacksaw or a shoestring could turn a legal weapon into an illegal one in 2 minutes
>>29351812
Actually it was probably weighed with the dramatic rise of gun violence in the 80's. New york alone had over 1000 murders per year in those days. If you had your way Jamal could simply run down to Arizona (fuck it your way would be the friendly neighborhood gun broker) and pick himself up a SAW, Cause muh rights.
I mean he's 18, no criminal record, its his right, Right?
>and like jamal even knows what suppressive fire is
>more like lets go turn brooklyn into hamburger hill over a kilo and a couple "bands"
>>29351826
When did I say supressive fire? This isnt a fucking battle, Its some nutjob turning his windowsill into a pillbox and mowing down a congested street during rush hour.
>>29351934
Look up North Hollywood shootout.
>>29351941
Yeah I have read about that before (re-reading now)
What are you trying to make me see though?
>>29351889
How has Hughes stopped Jamal from getting an illiegal MG? I think the ineptitude of our tech schools has helped more then the NFA.
Please don't tell me you think it's actually hard to illegally make something full auto.
You all act like it was easy to get a legal machine gun before the registry was closed... Not like you still had to have a class III and submit to a registry or something.
>>29352000
2 guys shot the shit out of the place, wounded like 18 dudes, killed no one.
Whitman sat in one spot with a bolt action rifle and killed 16, wounding a bunch more.
>>29351611
>but pistols are more concealable
Pistols were almost NFA items.
>>29352030
Whitman was also a Marine.
>>29351629
>A Registered Machine Gun is as dangerous as an Unregistered Machine Gun
Citation Needed
>>29352047
Proving my point though, it's not the gun, it's how you use it.
>>29352030
It was also the single event that led to a larger police militarization.
Ask a cop why he has an AR in his squd car and he'll probably bring up this shooting, or Paris.
>>29352078
And Whitman was partially responsible for the creation of SWAT teams.
>>29352131
Very true, I didn't even think of that.
Didn't the responding PD have armed bystanders et al assist in storming the tower?
>>29352173
Yeah, one civ almost botched the deal by shooting inside while they were sneaking up on him. They had to get help from the area just to pin him downISH in the tower cuz their shotguns and pistols weren't effective enough.
>>29352173
Yeah, I think I remember citizens helping out in storming the tower.
>>29352009
It was easier, It stopped him from getting it because they aren't commonplace like handguns for instance. And I think it more or less Looks like one guy making or buying them then selling them off. And even still I dont see your point. you can still get a F/A gun if you really want to, its just not somthing you do on a whim.
>>29352030
Those 18 cops where lucky. I dont care what gun or circumstance, that many rounds fired, that many hits, its a fluke that none of them where killed in battle, Same go's for the gunmen actually.
Back to the point though they illegally modified those guns, they couldnt get their hands on actually F/A rifles.
>>29352030
And Anders got the new highscore with a mini-14, I toatally agree. It is definetly how you use it. But the thing is I can think of 10 bad ways to use a F/A gun for every 1 good one.
The thing that gets me about Anti gun control people is they always try and reason. they always try and name "good things about killing machines" when the argument should be, no compromise, even if that means chaos in the streets. the reason bearing arms is a constitutional right is because of the idea that the people should hold the same power as the government. (that is a far stretch now and probably irreversibly far-gone) But I still hate the whining.
>>29352239
>it's all a fluke
They were spraying like madmen mate, you want accurate kills, you don't go full auto.
>>29352239
YOU CANT GET A NEW FA GUN!
YOU HAD TO GO THROUGH THE SAME EXACT CLASS III PROCESS IN 1977 THAT YOU HAD TO DO IN 1987!
THE HUGHES AMMENDMENT JUST MADE IT NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO ADD NEW FUNS TO THE REGISTRY.
Yes totally one guy is making all the illiegal guns in the entire country, it's impossible to think the same niggers that nigger rig every car can't make a simple one piece sear or even do the string trick.
>/k/-where retards perpetuate artificial value and loss of rights in the name of 'safety'
>>29352239
You're confusing Hughes with 1934 GCA...
That's back when a child could order a full auto belt fed Hun killing war relic from a catalogue for less than the price of a model T.
>you know back when we were free
>>29351794
200 dollars for a tax stamp is pretty reasonable in my book, just open back up the Full Auto Registry and we're all good.
>>29352373
>200 dollars for a tax stamp is pretty reasonable in my book
No shit, I would buy another AR lower (fuggin Geissele) and then register every fuckin gun I own
>FA AR-180, PTR-91, AK-74
The best part is once a gun is registered as a machinegun, the rest of the NFA doesn't apply to it, so it can have any barrel length.
$200 was some hard cash back in the day, though.
>>29352373
>>29352391
Exactly I'm fine with a registry and a rapestamp just open the bitch up so I can actually own something that's not a $300,000 war relic.
>>29352275
If you have the gun mounted its a different story.
>>29352328
I dont understand what you want.
>>29352346
Oh I see, So what did the hughes do?
And more like a fraction of the price of a model T, Fuck my grandpa bought a 303. British for somthing like 10 bucks off a newspaper after ww2, and this is in Canada. Somtime's I really think I was born in the wrong era
>>29352391
After all the money math and whatnot,
$200 back in 1934 is like $3500 today.
A ford model t was like $400 so to spend half a car on something like a gun was stupid for ordinary people, which is why they made it so much in the first place.
>>29352463
Hughes closed the national machine gun registry, which was already tightly controlled after the 1968 gun control act. This made it impossible to register newly manufactured MGs for private ownership. Legal MGs today had to be registered before 1986.
The 1934 NFA is what established the registry.
The cheapest MSRP of the T range was the 1924 model T at $290. MG's were still expensive, I'll try to find an add real quick. I remember one showing a M1919 for ~$300.
>>29352519
So is it basically a move to keep modern MGs out of the hands of civi's?
And why do they use the term register? Like its possible for a gun store to own a MG but they cannot sell it? or how does that work
>>29352564
Yes exactly. The Hughes amendment was mainly supported by the heads of the NRA who had millions invested in historical FA.
They use the term register because you are physically registering that receiver with the ATF.
gun shops are considered dealers, they can have FA's as dealer samples or rental guns but they are the property of the business. Same deal for manufacturers. You still have to go through the same declarations procedures with these dealer guns that you would with a normal MG but there is no possibility of civilian ownership.
This is why you see so many people who have FA on social media also have some sort of gun related company.
>this is why I hate these series of laws so much, they create nothing but red tape for things that in the case of suppressors actually help people.
>>29352519
Not a browning but close.
>>29352519
>Hughes closed the national machine gun registry
Might I add that it was added despite a "NAY" voice vote that has been found in uncovered footage. Such a fuckup.
>>29352564
There's a system for "dealer samples", or new machineguns made by properly licensed dealers for the purposes of demoing to law enforcement and government agencies.
>>29352633
>never forget the day the conservative Jesus & conservative God (Heston & Reagan) conspired to circumvent the will of the congress & the American people and take our rights away
>>29352009
>Please don't tell me you think it's actually hard to illegally make something full auto.
How easy is it? Like if you bought some random AR or AK, could you convert it to full auto easily?
SBR's are easier to conceal and full-auto guns were used a lot by the gangsters of that era.
It's just one of those BS laws they never got around to fixing.
Also a lot of people think that full-auto guns work like they do in movies in that you can spray and pray for hours without reloading.
>>29352723
Depending on the firearm, Ak for this example, all that's required is a FA disconctor and FA sear. Literally two pieces of sheet steel and an illegal hole.
I'm not a machinist, I do insurance, so I can't give you a complete technical breakdown.
>>29352747
Here is an ak with FA bits installed.
>>29351550
The 1934 NFA act was mainly passed in response to the idea of "gangster weapons" (which happened because of prohibition anyway ayy lmaooooo), and was mainly aimed at automatic rifles that people kept under their coats.
Keep in mind that a 200 dollar tax in 1934 was huge fucking shit and pretty much was designed to stop ordinary civilians from owning such weapons.
>>29352747
>AK
Also a rate reducer, I believe.
An AR would probably be easier as long as you could get hold of a full auto trigger. The disconnector and autosear would be easy to machine, and you could machine the extra material off of the safety to make it FA capable... I think.
>Wish they'd open up the damn registry so I could try that shit
>>29352755
15 seconds on google and you can find the schematics for this baby.
>this makes the AR15 illiegal
>>29352767
You'd need a good buffer and BCG if you don't want bolt bounce.
Ak, Mac, stens and early Tec's are the easiest.
>>29351629
stupid question but why did they take until 1986 to close the machine gun registry?
>>29351848
>shoestring
Someone post the picture of the NFA registered shoestring on the mini-14? IIRC
>>29352798
>You'd need a good buffer and BCG if you don't want bolt bounce.
You're supposed to time the autosear after throwing it in, which fixes that
>>29352825
This one?
>>29352842
I didn't know you could even time the sear lol
>>29351550
it's all just a meme
>>29351550
Because of these kinds of people.
>>29352897
Yes, that one.
>>29351889
Jamal can't afford a SAW. With enough money, however, laws don't matter, because you can get connections to illegal manufacturers.
Criminals just use what's cheap and available, no matter legality
>>29352373
Tax stamps are reasonably prized today, back in the day when NFA was set up those weren't.
$200 back then would be $3,538.97 now.
$500 would be $8,847.43 now.
US tax laws are fucked up because those can't be corrected for inflation easily... this isn't that case, but gas tax is very much fucked up as it was frozen in 90's. That is a huge part why road maintenance in US sucks.
>>29352767
With an AR all you need is a lightning link. Select fire is more involved/complicated.
>>29352373
>200 dollars for a tax stamp is pretty reasonable in my book
Kill yourself.
>>29351629
>so we had to get rid of them
But we didn't.
Criminals are just as armed as they've ever been and they always will be. Also sometimes governments are criminal, look at all our awful little genocides in the last century.
Hell even the US has genocided (and attempted genocide on) its own people before.
>inb4 no true scotsman statements
>>29351550
At first it was to fuck over gangsters, now the government has spun it that we need it against school shooters and jihadists
>>29355600
>At first it was to fuck over gangsters
except it didn't
>>29355662
Yeah, but that was the intended purpose. Politicians aren't gods.
>>29355699
Do you really think they thought it would work? I think it is more likely they saw the opportunity to ratchet down on a nation after a a few extremely publicized criminals scared the general public.
This was the beginnings of really up-to-the-minute "news" with a much better newspaper infrastructure and of course Radios. People finally were hearing about violent crimes from all parts of the country as quick as the local news. The progress of weapons had never stopped and I'm sure we might have seen an attempt on a revolver ban if there had been someway to fear monger the who nation as effectively in the mid 1800s.
Most people that manage to get elected are somewhat intelligent, many are more than just that. I am sure they knew that the NFA would do nothing to stop criminals from illegally getting and using guns in illegal ways. They only disarmed people like you and me.
Same thing with the "machine gun ban" they knew that doesn't work, but seized the opportunity when public opinion swayed just for a moment.
Don't trust those cocksuckers.
>>29351765
>minuet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on1DDSLdDOo
>>29355851
I think it was partially for control, and partially because they didn't have the budget to effectively deal with the gangsters and hoped this would help a bit. Making them illegal upped the charge when they arrested gangsters and also fucked over gun laws for centuries.
>>29351550
concealable.
Hardcore motherfuckers used to saw off a browning auto 5, put a sling on what was left on the butt, let it hang to the side and walk into a bank and have it out and aimed in a jiffy. They'd do the same with thompsons without a stock. The nickname was whippet gun.
Pic related. Clyde Barrow did this with a gosh dang BAR.
It made a lot of sense for its time.
>>29355892
But pistols. All it ended up doing was fuck over our ability to resist other people with those types of weapons.
>>29355962
I'm only saying it made sense in its time when criminals regularly went at it with police using these types of weapons. It's not so applicable now.
>>29355981
Police also had BAR's and Thompsons.
>>29355892
> the NFA somehow made saws impoSsible to use.
Wow, it did absolutely nothing
>>29355892
Because Bonnie and Clyde totally had legally obtained MGs and didn't steal them from a national guard armory, like every other gangster of the time.
>>29356157
>Bonnie and Clyde
>D. May 1934
>NFA
>Enacted June 1934
Please do some research.
>>29356186
This. You could just mail order the things.
>>29356235
And they were prohibitively expensive, so only the wealthy could afford them. Normal citizens just bought fudd guns because they were cheaper.
>>29352633
>Might I add that it was added despite a "NAY" voice vote that has been found in uncovered footage. Such a fuckup.
>>29352670
>never forget the day the conservative Jesus & conservative God (Heston & Reagan) conspired to circumvent the will of the congress & the American people and take our rights away
This is crazy! What's the story here?
>>29356110
I know. The ease of access is what was perceived as the problem. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying I can see why they did this at that time.
>>29356303
Exactly. Which is why primarily gangsters and career criminals bought them. Use their ill gotten shekels on better arms.
>>29356186
>>29356235
Uhh hey asshats kind of hard to legislate STOLEN machine guns.
http://patch.com/illinois/yorkville/history-mystery-were-bonnie-or-clyde-involved-with-roa8e6a180f0
>>29351550
Remove all gun laws and have 3 to 1 tax added to firearms. A 3,000 dollar machine gun is safer in the public than a 100 dollar shotgun that can be sawed off.
>>29351550
>logical reasons behind the 1934 NFA
Tax money
>behind the 1986 ban
Because they're scary
Those two reasons are the only two reasons any government has ever taken action on any topic throughout the entirety of human history.
>>29356310
The story is that during a very violent nationwide Coke fueled crime spree the NRA collaborated with the most powerful politicians to have the registry closed and make machine gun purchases almost impossible for anyone that wasn't willing to setup a museum or a corporation. All in the name of safety...
>because Colombian jungle mutts running around with mac10's with erasers glued behind the trigger are the perfect excuse
>>29356321
And the $200 tax stamp only guaranteed that normal citizens couldn't afford them, only the elite
>>29352391
>200 dollars for a tax stamp is pretty reasonable
Except in 1935 that was a year's salary for a white-collar upper management guy, and upwards of a decade's salary for a manual laborer. It was also approximately 5-20x the cost of a select-fire rifle at the time.
It was intended to be a barrier to entry so (unconstitutionally) huge that nobody (but the millionaire mafia) could afford it.
>>29356321
How stupid are you.
Since when has a criminal every legitimately paid for anything?
Al Capone, John Dillinger, baby faced Nelson etc... All used stolen guns.
Wana know why? Because it's cheaper and less conspicuous than actually buying a legal gun!
>tfw criminals still steal guns today
I bet you believe in the "gun show loophole".
>>29356360
Don't believe me?
Look at Charlton hestons collection. The value of every gun in that room quadroopeled over night.
>>29352767
You can (legally) buy every part needed to convert a semi-only AR to a select-fire AR.
All you have to do is drill the third pin hole.
Or spend 20 minutes with a Dremel and a $1 piece of sheet metal to make a Lightning Link. But that's full-time full auto.
>>29356415
Same goes for shoestring & eraser tricks. It's only illegal when you combine it with a firearm.
>>29354213
> gas tax is very much fucked up as it was frozen in 90's. That is a huge part why road maintenance in US sucks.
U.S. roads suck because it’s in the interest of Wall Street to keep them continually under repair…
>>29356360
Thanks, I guess... But I was more kinda asking about the vote pictured in the post here;>>29352670
How did they get away with the vote being overwhelmingly NAY, yet the legislation still somehow passed?
Got a link to the story maybe?
>>29356551
Bribes and keeping it secret for 30 years.
>>29356551
>>29356576
Literally this, no one outside of the beltway knew and no one inside the beltway cared.
The only outlet for this to have been seen by the average public was on CSPAN, and they didn't even release the vote tallies live like they do now.
You will be hard pressed to find any information past Wikipedia on the 1986 firearms owners protection act and the bad vote associated.
It's commonly known Google throttles pro 2A and other applicable information, this is one of those cases.
>>29351765
but you can put down supressive fire with a semi auto, it was and still is a rather common tactic within militaries
>>29351889
>"gun violence"
>>29356625
>It's commonly known Google throttles pro 2A and other applicable information, this is one of those cases.
source?
>>29356321
>criminals bought them
The implication is that they didn't, still don't, and never will.
>>29351550
>Are these acts justifiable?
You ask this on /k/ of all places.
>>29356745
Test it yourself.
>>29356745
>>29356822
ain't making this shit up, wish It was all a lie and Silicon Valley was the new Dallas.
>>29356915
All hail the mighty Google.
>>29352038
This. Roosevelt wanted an outright handgun ban, the compromise was the whole SBR shit.
>>29357448
>hey tony how do we get guns? buy them like we do our cars & our booze?
>fuck that lets take them!
"The Dillinger gang also broke into the police armory at Peru, Indiana, and stole machine guns and other weapons." Pg.22
