https://newmatilda.com/2016/03/16/imprecise-automated-deadly-why-australia-shouldnt-buy-into-the-drone-war/
My girlfriend's friend wrote this article and I need a really good rebuttle because last I heard Hellfire missiles had a better than 50 percent hit rate.
Also plane porn thread if the article doesn't make you mad like it did me.
>>29287889
>Drones = anything but precise
>>29287889
>PGMs are weapons that allegedly – through laser, GPS or satellite technology – minimise the risk of injury or death to civilians by specifically targeting combatants: “putting warheads on foreheads” as US Air Force officers call it. This may sound compelling in theory, but it is important we realise precision targeting is mythical in practice.
Last I heard Hellfires were not designed to burn targets
>>29287944
They're mainly anti-vehicle weapons I thought so I don't know how they're deployed. They are definitely used against infantry though
I wonder where the information came for that article.
>Drones also carry and deploy Hellfire missiles. These missiles – as their name suggests – burn their targets.
Oh my god she's a fucking idiot.
>>29287970
It came from somewhere because she's doing a Phd. Only reason I didn't fuck it off completely
>>29287952
Really? I knew you could do it in a pinch but is it that common?
>>29288018
Not sure how common it is. I've seen a few videos where they use them on buildings they know fighters are hiding in. I'll post link if I find it
>>29288018
>>29288027
found it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0Vq6XU7T0s
>>29287919
Is that a hitmarker near the end of the video?
>>29287889
Title 50 vs Title 10. Spoopy guys vs. Regulars. Covert vs. Clandestine.
An imprecise Laser-Guided Bomb
The big problem, besides collateral damage, with drone strike is not weapon precision, but intelligence and target identification.
If you're intel on the ground is a goatfucker you pay 200$ per identified target, you'll gonna have to prepare to killing lots of people who in no sense should have been your target.
>>29288336
There's a brief mention of that problem when really it should be the main point of the article.
Instead it contains sentences that insinuate that an 8m blast radius is indiscriminate.
Most fucking hand grenades have blast radius' larger than that and they're lobbed blindly
>One doctor who has treated drone victims states that “bodies are so burnt you can’t tell cattle from human
What a shity doctor
>>29288027
>>29288033
Hellfires come in a ton of configurations. One of those is a HE with a shrapnel ring intended to use against personnel
>>29288351
getting hit while your're balls-deep in your favourite goat would have that effect, i guess
>>29288018
They're ALWAYS used against infantry
>>29288363
I kek'd
Well for one thing she's a fucking idiot confusing a blast radius with "the myth of precision weapons"
IT CAN'T BE BARGAINED WITH. IT CAN'T BE REASONED WITH.
IT DOESN'T FEEL PAIN, OR REMORSE, OR FEAR, AND IT ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT STOP, EVER. UNTIL YOU ARE DEAD.
>>29287975
PhD is bullshit Piled High and Deep
academia is not reality. quite the contrary.
>>29287889
>Drones = anything but precise
>PGMs are weapons that allegedly – through laser, GPS or satellite technology – minimise the risk of injury or death to civilians by specifically targeting combatants: “putting warheads on foreheads” as US Air Force officers call it. This may sound compelling in theory, but it is important we realise precision targeting is mythical in practice.
The obvious response is "compared to what?". Compared to a ground invasion, door-kicking enlisted men, shock, and awe, yes. Drone campaigns are very precise, very surgical, very efficient, and less costly.
Compared to Australian military commitments, which although appreciated can be aptly summarized as some infantry here, a few planes there, partaking in the drone war probably would be a net increase to blood on australian hands and costs simply because its an increase in activity anyway.
>Last I heard Hellfires were not designed to burn targets
we shouldn't expect everyone to know what they are talking about. We all look at a statement like that and point out that they aren't incendiary weapons, but they do start fires. Especially when they hit vehicles, which is often where drone pilots pull the trigger on the guys they're targeting. People get burns from explosions is her intended point, we have to keep in mind that we are dealing with a writer, and they like to make things sound dramatic.
>>29288382
Yea nice one
>>29288464
Nice one what? How many tanks have we been fighting compared to infantry in the last decade?
>>29287970
She might have gone for the whole "HEAT warheads means fire and melting"
It's impossible to rebutt because she didn't write anything about drones. The entire article is about US foreign policy not drones. I don't understand what she is trying to say, is she suggesting that defense spending is inherently wrong and they should disband the entire ADF?
>>29287970
Another reason why women shouldn't be allowed to have opinions or vote, literal morons it's like dealing with children.
sitting next to 3 UAVs right now.
AMA you queer boys
>>29291286
What do the flight controls look like on those things?
>>29291286
if you had 3 or more dragon dildos in your pooper right now how many dragon dildos would you have in your pooper
>>29291379
there isn't much to control. there's a screen a keyboard and a joystick which is used to operate the payload. the bird follows programed coordinates.
I would take a pic but I'm too lazy to walk across the run ways.
>>29287919
Is this a guncam video of an F-22 training kill? Anyone know any details? The text is in English, so I don't think this is from any training with Eurofighters or Rafales...
>>29291614
Nah man I was talking about what the flight controls ON the drone look like. Like servos and such.
>>29287889
UAV's provide far superior sustainable surveillance compared to manned aircraft flights. The globalhawk is second only to a U2 in flight altitude, and it can stay aloft for much longer than any aircraft the military uses, presently.
I've had infantry patrollers tell me they don't want to go out unless they have drone overwatch with them, so not only does it provide intel, but its also a good method of directly protecting ground troops (thereby saving lives) for long periods of time.
the entire article is based upon emotional appeals, there is nothing here that is a complaint other than "war is bad and hurts people" and somehow tries to blame drone technology for it, when in reality the whole reason Obama stepped up drone strikes is to remove soldiers from high risk situations, and reduce the use of the potentially messier manned bombings, actually saving lives.
In addition, because drones can provide simultaneous surveillance and strike capability, they can theoretically operate on much more up to date intel than if a soldier or intel plane saw some bad guys, then called in an airstrike that lands 10 minutes later, which may lead to civilians wandering in or bad guys getting away. Simultaneous intel/strike would actually help reduce civilian casualties, in this sense.
tl;dr no rebuttal needed, the military is going to buy them anyway because it's retarded not to, and actually saves more lives than if we had to storm every building with ground troops or rely on jets to bomb everything.
also why the fuck did she mention the bombing of baghdad, that was manned aircraft bombing indiscriminately, literally the opposite of what drones are built to do.
>>29291286
army operator or contractor?
interested in doing both, potentially.
>>29288018
the AGM-114N was designed for hitting soft targets, not just tanks
>>29292260
here is an undershot of the wing showing the linkage and the surfaces. the servos are in th e wing itself and as a maintainer that is above the armys skill lvl one of out civilian FSRs would have to handle that.
>>29292378
you can't do both
15E(maintainer) you prep the bird for flight, launch it, land it, and perform daily maintenance on it.
15W(operator) you monitor it during the flight and set coordinates. you don't actually fly it.
as of now the army is starving for maintainers if you talk to your recruiter I'm positive you can squeeze a signing bonus out of him.
>>29292512
what company and model is that? I think I toured their facility once, the design looks familiar.
>>29292360
I agree with this, the mentioning of Baghdad was to show that "smart" munitions really aren't even when human piloted.
The truth of the matter is that we probably are increasing civilian casualties by the increase in drone warfare but it's at the benefit of not putting any of ours at risk.
That's just reality
>>29292593
I won't say my company. it's a UAV runway out in the middle of no where on ft hood.
>>29292512
Damn that's gay you guys can't work on that. Looks simple as fuck desu
>>29292160
Video is from a Rafale. I don't have any F-22 guncams
>>29292721
meant what company made the aircraft, but I remembered who it was, so nevermind.
>>29292774
most UAV equipment fairly simple stuff, desu, but I dont blame the army for thinking the average soldier would just break it.
>>29292160
>The text is in English, so I don't think this is from any training with Eurofighters or Rafales...
You really think they're going to use anything but English in a NATO aircraft?
>>29292774
we can work on the linkage but the servos are pretty much sealed into the wing.
>>29287889
I think a big part of the objection to the use of drones in anything but a support role is that using them like they've been in Afghanistan and Pakistan is usually based off of poor intelligence. Not in the sense that they operators are doing anything wrong but it's easy enough to mistake a mailman or something for an terrorist if half your intel is based off of surveillance and not actually questioning people. In a support role they're great though in a low intensity conflict, or for surveillance of men and material.
>>29288333
You're right, it was supposed to hit the first letter on the top left, not the window.
>>29292920
>>29292160
The aviation world typically uses English for everything. We're supposed to be getting Chinese pilots at my flight school soon and I'll tell you right now they're not gonna be able to pass the fucking exams no matter how good they are
>Alex Edney-Browne is a PhD candidate in Screen and Cultural Studies
Maybe she should stick to her own damn field of study. Maybe then I'll put a dollar in her tip jar after she hands me my coffee.
>>29287912
l-lewd
>>29293258
Brutal
