Tell me /k/, why the fuck do people buy Damascus knives? I understand if you just want a wall hanger, but why the fuck would you buy one for use?
Because they open boxes as well as anything
>>29286438
>I like it.
Literally doesn't even have to go farther than that.
>Damascus
Unless the blade is several hundred years old, it is pattern welded steel that shares no commonality with Damascus steel in any way other than appearance.
Can we stop with the Damascus semantics bullshit please? Pattern welded steel is commonly referred to as Damascus. I bet you call self adhesive bandages bandaids and rotary tools a Dremel. It's the same thing.
>>29287145
This. It's just aesthetic.
>>29286438
They buy them because they like the look obviously.....why would you go to the effort of making damascus or commisioning a damascus knife only to use it as a wall hanger?
>>29287145
Damascus is synonymous with pattern welded steel these days, deal with it gramps
>>29287186
ITT: fuccbois defend the fact they call things the wrong names.
>>29287186
Maybe it is synonymous for retards like you who don't know what the fuck they are talking about you little bitch faggot
>>29287145
Plenty of people have made crucible Damascus in modern times. Stop talking from your ass.
no knife general so ill ask this here
what is the model of this spyderco?
>>29287213
>he says, literally talking out of his bunghole
>>29287218
Police G10 duh
>>29287287
I mean you can pretend otherwise if you want, but it's been done. Willful ignorance is your problem.
>>29287199
>>29287206
reeeeeee all you want guys, doesnt change the fact that they're interchangeable these days :>)
>>29286438
My buddy is a steelsmith so I'll tell you what he told me. A true Damascus steel knife that you forge looks the way it does because it's a combination of two steels that have different attributes. Normally you mix a high carbon low chromium steel with a high chromium low carbon steel so their negative attributes sort of cancel each other out. High carbon low chromium steels are very durable and have great edge retention, but due to the low chromium count they rust easily if not properly oiled or protected with something like tuffglide. High chromium low carbon steels don't have as good edge retention or durability, but due to the high chromium content are extremely rust resistant. The combination of the two allows you to share both benefits but only if you actually forge them together properly.
BECAUSE THEY LOOK COOL
IDC THAT IT'S PATTERN WELDED
Because I like to carry a small pocket knife everywhere and it looks nice. It holds an edge, its functional...
And its smaller than my buck, which doesn't fit in my business-y clothes pockets as well.
>>29287426
Its purely for asthetics, its not about getting the best of both worlds or anything like that. Most people i know use 1084 steel and 15n20
>>29287370
Different guy here.
Got any info on how they do the crucible Damascus? I always thought that crucible steel became rather homogenous and lost any pattern to it.
How do they pour? DO they pour? Or just let the fire die, let the steel cool, then heat and draw it out? Details, man.
>>29287426
It sounds like your buddy is describing sandwich steel contruction aka san mai or clad construction.
>>29286438
Because I ordered a particular shape of knife blank and the seller cut it out of a billet of pattern welded steel.
I'll admit, it does look neat though.
>>29287426
If it contains chrome its obviously not comparable to ancient damascus at all.
modern damasc is as good as any ancients used even woots blades. i make custom sheths for all types of knife. this one is a custom bushhawg knife with custom handles made by me. it is my popular zomby skulls modle.
>>29289081
Shut the fuck up, tripfaggot. Filtered.
I make other sheths, this one is popular punisher skull sheth with a custom radom knive
>>29287530
>>29287763
>>29288859
I'm just parroting what he told me. I'm no blacksmith, and I don't expect anyone to take what I said as irrefutable fact. I'm just attempting to promote discussion.
>>29287145
>Unless the blade is several hundred years old, it is pattern welded steel that shares no commonality with Damascus steel in any way other than appearance.
the name "damascus" has been being used with PW gun barrels since the 18th century at least.
>>29287426
>A true Damascus steel knife that you forge looks the way it does because it's a combination of two steels that have different attributes.
That's pattern welding. When people think of true damascus they usually think of pulad (aka wootz, watered steel, jawhar, etc), assuming they have a clue what's what.
Here's an intro to things: http://www.mediafire.com/download/j1wyomznimm/Feuerbach_-_Damascus.pdf
>so their negative attributes sort of cancel each other out
With modern steels, you could basically just grab the happy medium ready made and good to go, without the possible issue of bad welds mucking things up.
Historically pattern welding probably came about because they only had small lumps of metal to work with, so they had to join those together. Then they started mixing lumps of cheaper material with the good stuff for the parts of the blade where it didn't really matter. Finally they started getting artistic about it.
>but due to the high chromium content are extremely rust resistant
And if you dilute that with an equal amount of a steel with no chromium to speak of and things averaged out you'd get a steel with only half the chromium needed for proper corrosion resistance. You'd better keep that well oiled.
Though in reality I doubt the diffusion speed of chromium in iron is anything at all really (given that the Cr atom is slightly larger than the Fe one), which means the chromium will stay in the high chromium regions, and the high carbon stuff won't get any rust protection at all. Instead the opposite may happen, as galvanic corrosion kicks in and the low chromium regions act as a sacrificial anode for the stainless bits.
>>29286438
"damascus" is a style more than a steel.
Some damascus readily outperdorms most industrial grade steels, but it depends on the maker, not on it being "damascus".
Also it looks cool.
>>29289081
You're my favourite retard Tommy.
Appreciate both your kydex and your posting work.
>>29287426
that's bullshit,if you would do somehting like that,the low carbon part wouldn't temper and it would be soft as a pussy.Modern damascus is purely for aestetics,the chemical composition of the 2 steel doesn't mix.They are not molten togheter,they are still 2 separate steels,that's why you can see the pattern,they react differently to acid so they either show darker or lighter than the other.
>>29287397
So you support gender fluidity?
>>29287213
I'm pretty sure the legitimate difference between authentic damascus steel and the modern shit is the existence of carbon nanotubing in its structure. The modern shit doesn't contain that.
>>29286438
>Damascus knives
these exist? I thought the process for making Damascus steel was lost
>>29287213
No, they claim to have done. We will never know if it is a true representation of Actual Damascus. It is also worth noting that there have only been a few people able to create steel that mimics Damascus' properties. Given that only a handful of smiths have the knowledge and resources to recreate Damascus to a fairly accurate degree, it probably would be extremely expensive to buy or commission. And the guy who you replied to was talking about your average 'Damascus' steel knife. Not historical recreations.
>>29295068
"Damascus" can refer to pattern welded steel etched to show a pattern as well as the historical steel which it visually resembles. Also though real Damascus was lost we found it again a while ago, look up bulat steel.
>>29290850
They are welded together
It's hammer welded
You get your stack of alternating low carbon tool steel and high carbon steel and get them white hot, then take your white hot 6 inch tall brick and hammer that to about an inch thick, cut ithe and stack it rinse, repeat. That's called folding
If you do that enough and get close to 100,000 folds, and then when you acid dip it you wont see the ripples. It's kind of like what the Japanese did but they did it to remove impurities from there shit steel that's where "folded 1 million times" comes from
But with damascus There is all kinds of different techniques to aquire different looks, people mostly get Damascus blades for the looks but they are pretty decent blades
>>29287701
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9j9vUGi0QA
Here's a 5 episode series on making crucible steel
>>29295908
Just got back from work. Thanks, anon.
Literally for looks. Pattern welded steels tend to be a fair bit softer than any modern tool steel.
>>29297774
>pattern welded steels tend to be a fair bit softer than any modern tool steel
But anon, pattern welded steel is "modern tool steel", only its been forge welded in a pattern. and its hardness depends on how you heat treat it, nothing to do with the fact that it is pattern welded.
>problem solved
>>29287167
Magazines are commonly referred to as clips.
Sup /k/,
I want to buy a new folder knife to take on vacation. Just for simple things like cutting some string or a piece of fruit, nothing fancy. Last time I took a small Buck Vantage with me (and lost it) and that was pretty ok. Can you recommend me something better at that price or did i do good last time?
>>29293081
>The modern shit doesn't contain that.
Have you looked to make sure? Has anyone? Carbon nanotubes can, and supposedly do, form in some quantities (generally minute) simply by heating carbon rich material a decent bit. If they pop up in one steel, they may pop up in others.
As for the nanotubes, they never actually saw any of those in the old pulad (aka wootz) steel. What they did was to dissolve the steel in acid, and they where left with nano-thin rods or wires of cementite, which they believed had formed within carbon nanotubes. Other scientists think cementite is quite capable of forming such structures without any nanotube moulds. Another possibility is contamination of the samples.
The researchers who claimed to have found them also IIRC said nothing about the nanotubes doing anything at all for the mechanical properties of the steel. Probably because the amounts possibly found where by far too minute to have any real impact there. It's also worth noting that having some amount of nanotubes in a steel may not be a good thing. Given how the two are unlikely to stick to each other at all, the "pull out strength" will most likely be more or less zero, resulting in the fibres begin less of a reinforcement and more of voids, wreaking havoc with the toughness of the material. Admittedly poor toughness does appear to be characteristic of historical pulad steel (aka "real historical damascus"), but given the high amounts of carbon and phosphorus they usually contain, we don't need any nanotubes to explain that.
The main point of interest with the nanotubes, IF they existed at some point in the steel's manufacturing process, is that their presence can provide important clues to how exactly that steel has been treated. What temperatures, for how long, etc. It may also help give insight into cementite grain growth.
>>29287170
A E S T H E T I C
>>29295068
Damascus today mostly means any steel with an inherent pattern to it.
Now the "real stuff" is more specifically called pulad, wootz, bulat, watered steel, etc. That too is made today, science figured out what made it what it is a while back, and now a few makers fiddle around with it.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4oqKmVgardBn9wCrzAnGBlFSB6fUT5FS
>>29295128
How well a modern pulad mimics the properties of historical pulad visually, well, you can tell that just by looking at it.
As for the mechanical properties, there's a lot of hype surrounding this stuff, but in reality it doesn't appear to be all that much actually. The image I attached to my previous post shows the result of a test done back in the twenties, comparing steel form a few old blades with pattern welded "Solingen damask" and what I suspect is a basic, everyday steel (Solingen cast) of its time. And the results aren't very flattering for the pulad. The welded damask, which I suspect is around where the high end would have been in Europe for much of the middle ages beats all four tested pulad bits on every measured property, being both harder and tougher than them, and the Solingen cats steel in turn is superior to the damask in every way measured.
Now, this is stuff from nearly a century ago. That cast steel would probably be considered "Made in China"-disposable tier today.
>>29289903
>And if you dilute that with an equal amount of a steel with no chromium to speak of and things averaged out you'd get a steel with only half the chromium needed for proper corrosion resistance
actually the differemt steels will have a different potential, and accelerate corrosion considerably
I found the nanotube publication again: http://www.hefajstos.agh.edu.pl/files/%5B2006%5D%20Carbon%20nanotubes%20in%20an%20ancient%20Damascus%20sabre%20-%20M.%20Reibold.pdf
>>29287701
When a molten alloy solidifies some short-range inhomogeneities will develop naturally. Basically the first solidified bits will tend to be "purer" than the melt at large, and then lag behind in composition, leading to the alloying elements, impurities, etc being enriched in the remaining melt, and finally get trapped in between the grains in the metal.
Slow cooling makes for larger grains, and thus "beefier" inter-grain regions, as well as giving the alloying elements more time to move away from the growing solid regions. So for pulad you want really slow cooling, whereas for a high end steel (where you almost certainly want as high homogeneity as possible, and small grain size is always good) you probably want a flash freeze.
Now the important elements in the pulad are carbide formers. They will tend to attract carbon to where they are, and it seems they may also promote the formation of cementite as well. To make the pattern in pulad mroe visible the steel should be put through thermal cycling, you heat it up, let it cool a bit, and repeat a large number of times (this may come naturally from forging it). Every heating cycle carbon is released from the bulk of the material, and some of that wanders over to the carbide formers in the inter-grain regions. Extreme care must be taken not to overheat the material, because then the carbide formers will start wlakign around as well, evening out there distribution and removing the pattern.
i know rite dis knife is soooooooooooooooo much bettar!
>>29300522
>and then I read your next paragraph
nvm. but at least i can confirm that is what will happen. alltough I dont think the Corrosion rate is that high anyways, so it might not matter too much.
anyways. pattern welding looks cool as fuck
wootz is useless compared to modern steel, but it looks cool as fuck, and you can be maximus hipsterius with a wootz blade.
sandwiching on the other hand is how it should be done. good edgesteel where its needed, and thickness and steels to match temper properties
>>29300472
I T S A L L I N Y O U R H A N D S
>>29300397
>supposedly
So then no one actually knows right? Whats the point of arguing it if no one knows?
>>29301801
I'm sure a great number of people know quite well what steps need to be taken to turn graphite into nanotubes. I'm too tired to go look it up though, so I'll just work from memory, which has been known to fuck up from time to time. And hopefully a few words like that here and there will make someone double check things before taking my words as gospel, reducing the amount of nonsense I can propagate.
>>29301853
I don't want my comments to come off as offensive, I don't know myself. Last I read, creating carbon nano tubing is a pretty difficult thing to do in a lab setting. And many were quite skeptical at the ability for smith's to make them, let alone know about them in the first place. I've not really been able to find much on the subject outside something that cannot accurately be validated.
Everyone, this will help with understanding wootz
as it is quite respectable to modern steels:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sd85YXg5io
Ulfberht to the rescue... ;)
Also:
http://kavehfarrokh.com/arthurian-legends-and-iran-europe-links/the-viking-ulfberht-sword-and-persian-steel/
>>29286438
You wouldn't buy one for use.
>>29299858
Opinel, a thin flat ground blade is perfect for simple tasks like you describe. Very cheap too
>>29304625
Why wouldnt you buy one to use?
>>29289081
>>29289130
Damn! That looks badass! If I paid you, could you make one with the Monster Energy, Tapout, and Beats By Dre logo on it? Could you give me an estimate?
