GAS MASKS
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
Hello /K/omrades. I want to buy one or more gas masks in case of a NBC attack. Which one should I buy?
My most important criteria are
1. Effectiveness
2. Cost
3. Cost/availability/interchangeability of Filters
GO!
Also, do I need a full chemical suit? Are they available Inexpensively?
gas mask fag here.
Look on amazon. I would suggest anything that is Israeli since they continually make a shit ton for their population. DO NOT buy any thing soviet era. Most of the filters are ineffective and have expired by now. Only go with ones manufactured within the last 10 years.
Nobody here knows anything about gas masks?
>>29253755
Thanks, are the filters common or interchangeable with US filters?
They are not gas masks. They are protective masks.
Get it right.
>>29253786
Thanks, any information to contribute? Or are you just an expert on semantics?
>>29253804
Semantics and language are important. Be adult about this.
>>29253869
Once again, thanks for the tip. Do you have any information on protective masks that you can contribute? You seen to know a lot about them.
>>29253883
I used and advocate the M17. The only thing it won't protect you from is methane.
>>29253936 From what I can tell the m-17 was replaced in the 1990's. Wouldn't that make any surplus mask you buy 20+ years old? Is that a problem?
You're getting fuck all for answers, so I guess I'll contribute. Full disclosure, I'm not a CBRN specialist, I'm just CBRN qualified.
What kind of gas are you hoping to stop? Choking agents, blood agents, nerve agents, blister agents, tear agents? Tear agents only need a mask, as they are not very dangerous against bare skin in most cases (some people get irritation, but it's survivable). Same for choking agents. Blister agents require a mask and a suit, unless you enjoy having enormous chemical burns and blisters all over your body. Nerve agents are absorbed through the skin, so a full suit is absolutely mandatory unless you feel like spasming so hard that you break your own bones before asphyxiating due to your diaphragm freezing up.
Suits can be bought reasonably cheaply, but that doesn't mean they're any good. For a blister agent or general protection from contamination, all you really need is an extra layer between you and the chemical that you can get rid of when you're out of the hazard. For nerve agents, you'll want something with a charcoal liner inside of it to slow the absorption of the chemical through the suit. This charcoal layer becomes useless if it gets soaked by the way, so make sure it isn't left in the rain or anything.
Basically if you're in a chemical environment, you want to mask up immediately (9 seconds in the CAF CBRN standard), followed by getting your suits hood up within 5 seconds after that; next step is to get into cover as quickly as possible. Once in cover, decontaminate any skin that may have been exposed, then suit up fully with rubber gloves and boots, with the suit pulled over top of them and sealed with something like tape. If you're in a chemical environment, you get to live in that mask and suit for as long as needed until you are absolutely certain you are out of the danger area.
1/2
2/2
For a mask, surplus is fine, as long as they are new. Rubber seals dry out and crack as they age, which can compromise the seal of your mask. Filters should be replaced any time they are removed from sealed packaging in case of contamination, or from the filter degrading upon contact with oxygen. Depending on how long you're wearing your mask, you may need to swap out filters without unmasking, which means you need to practice this (it's a lot harder than you'd think even when the chemical environment you're in isn't something that will kill you in 10 seconds of exposure). When swapping your filter, you need to hold your breath and close your eyes, so you have to be able to remove your filter, grab a new one, screw it on, blow and air in your mask out, and ensure you have a seal all before you can inhale again, meaning you have a time limit. With the filter removed, your masks seal is compromised, meaning if you breathe in or open your eyes, you will be exposed to the contaminant.
Basically, CBRN is not something you want to play around with without proper training. If you're exposed to even a slight amount of VX or Sarin (for example), you're going to be poking yourself with 2PAM and Atropine auto-injectors until signs of atropine poisoning start to show, hoping that by the time that happens you've avoided the danger (VX has a relatively short lifespan if it can't bind to your acetylcholine receptors immediately). Given that 2PAM and Atropine aren't exactly easy for a civilian to acquire, you're basically fucked if you're in a VX environment without already being in full CBRN kit.
Any other questions?
>>29254085
>>29254072
Also most of this is just from memory, as I can't really be assed to try and dig out my notes from my CBRN training more than a year ago. If I made any mistakes, feel free to correct me if you know better.
>>29254072
Wow now we are getting somewhere! Any recommendations on Where to get the suit, what types of suits/masks or how old the Mask, filter or suit can be?
>>29253631
approvedgasmasks
Start there OP if you actually intend on protecting yourself from anything serious. You'll also need a friend to do the same so you can both equip.
SURPLUS IS FOR NON-LIFE THREATENING AGENTS AT BEST. DO NOT RELY ON ISRAELI/RUSSIAN/WHOEVER SURPLUS TO SAVE YOUR LIFE.
>>29254150
I'm not entirely sure, as Canada has less in the way of surplus for sale. For a charcoal lined suit that isn't old as fuck, I honestly have no fucking idea where to look. But for anything short of nerve agents, thick coveralls and a polypropylene painters suit from a hardware store should be acceptable as long as your plan is to get the fuck out of the contaminated area as quick as humanly possible which is exactly what your plan should be, only a fucking idiot stays in a chemical environment longer than they absolutely have to. You do NOT want to fuck around with this shit in the slightest, I'm not kidding. It scares the piss out of me to think about having to fight in a chemical environment. Just make sure your suit has a hood that fits very tightly around your mask so there aren't any gaps.
For your mask, any military mask made within the last 5 years or so should be fine, assuming you can source NEW filters. If you have a shit hot mask but can't find SEALED filters, you might as well just shoot yourself at the first sign of a chemical attack to save yourself the suffering.
For a civilian mask, find a full face respirator from a reputable company (usually marketed towards chemical and industrial companies) with at bare minimum OSHA P95 pre-filters (P98 are better) and organic filter cartridges. N95 or N98 pre-filters are useless, as they aren't rated to stop oil or vapours, only particulates. With a civvie mask, if you're exposed to legit chemical weapons such as a V-Series nerve agent, all the mask will do is buy you some time to get out of the contaminated area, it won't let you survive for long if you're dicking around in the area.
>>29254157
Approvedgasmasks sells Israeli gas masks. Are they shit?
>>29254222
Like I said, military masks are all fine as long as they aren't old. See if they list the manufacture date, and if they're older than about 5-7 years avoid them.
>>29254072
>>29254085
>>29254114
>>29254220
>>29254220
You re a true /K/ommando!
>>29254250
Eh, I'm just a broken ex-infanteer with a fascination with chemical warfare (CSIS please don't raid me) who remembers a lot of what I was taught. Plus I'm a prepper and a former chemical-industrial worker, so I've worked around chemical environments before, so I've done my research.
Unless you carry your gear, like the suit, mask, etc, plus a way to detect chemical gas on your side at all times, know how to put it on quick (in mere seconds), you're going to die from an attack anyways. The gas used today is in most cases, tasteless and invisible.
While I was in the Army the CBRN guys told us that if 100% of the men put on their gear in the correct amount of time, 60% of us would still die for one reason or another like faulty gear, improper seal, etc
Don't expect to use a gas mask for more than tear gas, or biological dangers, unless you just like wasting money.
>>29254288
I think that biological attack is a real threat.
Wouldnt the gas mask be useful in a nuclear attack as well if you were the "right" distance away form a Surface burst nuclear attack? (protection from inhaling radioactive dust)
>>29254333
>Wouldnt the gas mask be useful in a nuclear attack
Yes
>>29254333
The mask would help a bit, in which case all you'd really need is a set of coveralls and a P95 or P98 filter to avoid inhaling dust and ash. That'll only protect you from fallout though, not any of the more direct effects of an atomic/nuclear weapon.
>>29254333
Also, if you're wanting a mask just in case (SHTF, whatever reason you have) then focus more on stopping tear agents like CS or CN gas. Those are what will most likely be kicking around for people with nefarious goals to take advantage of.
>>29254401
More worried about a biological, chemical or "dirty bomb" terrorist attack. I live and work right outside a major metropolitan area so if it got hit, I may have enough time/distance to survive. But good tip on the CS/CN, Maplebro. You never know with the way things are going these days.
>>29254222
Yeah, and they also post a very large and visible disclaimer about surplus masks. Figure it out nigger. Civilian masks are made by companies like Scott and 3M who are rigorously certified, tested, and used by the public and private sector every day. If they do something wrong, people die, and they will have recoil from that. Get a mask from one of those instead of a long-dead mil supplier with unverifiable sources.
>>29254440
>>29254401
Do either of you know anything about cartridge compatibility across platforms or from civilian to military?
>>29254440
I assure you, I am not a nigger. Are you always this angry, or does this subject in particular rustle your jimmies?
>>29254486
Sorry *filter* compatibility
>>29254486
>Are you always this angry, or does this subject in particular rustle your jimmies?
No, I just want to make extra sure you're aware of how serious CBRN shit is. You want to spend money on this stuff, you buy the right stuff and you learn how to use it correctly. You cannot buy a dickbutt Israeli meme mask and throw it in your closet and tell yourself you're gonna be safe when your crazy neighbor pumps Phosgene down your chimney.
>>29254424
Well, to re-iterate, chemical weapon attacks with any true military grade agent like VX would be way beyond your level of responding to or surviving. Blister agents or choking agents some terrorist organisation managed to get their hands on (stolen from a third world nation that used to have a minor chemical weapons program) is a possibility, but a pretty low one. Not to mention that the weapons would likely be old and have a reduced effectiveness.
I'm all for preparing for the worst, but there are also some situations that are just so unlikely that your time and money would be better spent elsewhere. The level of sophistication needed to develop, weaponise, and more importantly deploy military grade nerve agents is far beyond the means of probably 99% of independent political factions. Even the anthrax scare in 2001 was most likely perpetrated by someone who worked in a government bio-defense lab, who had access to anthrax spores. Other forms of biological attacks are equally unlikely.
Dirty bombs are something that sound scary, but their theorised effectiveness is pretty low. The amount of radioactive material that would be needed to create any kind of true radiological hazard would make transporting the weapon extremely difficult, not to mention much harder to conceal. Unless the terrorists had some serious expert help and access to proper safety precautions, the people making it would likely die from radiation poisoning before it could be built.
>>29254072
>>29254085
What's your opinion of this?
To my unknowledgeable brain this seems like good advice, but I'm not sure.
>>29254486
>>29254512
3M makes it pretty easy to figure out which filters and cartridges work with which of their masks (If you're going the civvie route for a mask, I'd go with 3M personally). For military masks, some masks have cross-compatibility for filters, others don't. I'm not 100% sure, but I think there's a STANAG standard for NATO masks, but read up on it.
As for the other guy, I may not be calling you a nigger, but I can't really fault him for it. Chemical weapons are not something to be taken lightly. They're not something to cheap out on if you plan on dealing with weapons grade chemicals. CBRN is not something to dabble in, it's something you need to absolutely 100% understand and respect to realise how fucking critical every tiny step and precaution can be to save your life. This isn't WWI where pissing on a rag would save you from chlorine gas, there is some seriously nightmarish shit out there now.
>>29254537
You said you were a "pepper" do you have gas masks or respirators in case of something like this? If so, what type?
>>29254598
Right now I've got a 3M half mask and chemical goggles from my old job working in a chemical plant, but honestly I'd go for a full face respirator instead. It'll be more expensive, but CS gas doesn't need much of a gap in your goggles to make your day fucking miserable. Otherwise, I agree with that post. HEPA filters are best, but P95 or P98 filters are also acceptable (not for nerve agents though).
>>29254605
Nigger-calling guy again, this this this this OP.
You wanna save yourself some misery at the next street protest when the cops throw tear gas at you? Get a full mask and the appropriate filters for $60, and be happy knowing they can't touch you with their nignog repellent.
You wanna meet some checkbox on your little prepper list so you'll be ready when Ivan/Pingpong/Turbohitler deploys a blood/nerve agent in your AO? Buy a fucking manual, memorize it, then give it to your friend who lives <5 minutes away from you and have him memorize it. Both of you buy full Class A/AB and practice monthly kitting eachother up. Then you'll have a fighting chance of not choking to death on your own pain and flem.
Again, I'm VERY STRONGLY EMPHASIZING that you either go big and do this right or save your money and spend it on booze/ammunition instead.
>>29254673
Maplebro here, I am in total agreement with nigger-calling guy. I don't want to discourage you if you're deadset on prepping for something like this, but this ain't some amateur hour shit here. In the CAF we focus an entire week of our basic training on CBRN, and the infantry practice it constantly during our trade training. It is absolutely critical that you know your shit and practice constantly to have any hope in hell of surviving.
>>29254673
What are your qualifications, nigger calling guy?
What type of equipment do you own (if any)
>>29254719
None that you can verify here. I could say that I'm EOD but that would be a lie. Take my advice as it is or don't, I don't care.
>>29254713
I'm just sick and tired of people doing these threads expecting something completely unrealistic. You either go 100% or zero-zero-zero. The money would be better spent on a great bottle of booze to enjoy over the sirens before your skin melts off.
>>29254754
How do you know my expectations are unrealistic? I never said what they were, I only asked a series of questions. I didn't ask you to prove or verify your qualifications either. Only what they were. No need to get butthurt about it. So, what are they? EOD?
>>29254795
How do you know my expectations are unrealistic?
Thread picture, your questions, and your lack of knowledge.
So, what are they? EOD?
See
>>29254754
Tell us exactly what you're wanting to do here, let's start there.
>>29253936
OP has to nicely ask three times for you to answer the question. My question is why are you an asshole?
>>29254807
>>29253631
I think I made my criteria pretty clear as well as the purpose for buying a masks. The picture I used is only to generate interest in the post. Its a cool looking picture of a gas mask. It got your attention, didn't it?
>>29254807
Also: Obviously I have a lack of knowledge, otherwise I wouldn't be seeking it.
>>29254867
>>29254877
Maplebro here, I can understand why it's frustrating to have to answer these questions. There's a lot of information to pass on, and every little bit of it is critical. Many, many people don't appreciate how serious CBRN is on any real scale, and if you are only half paying attention it can get you killed. So it can be frustrating trying to pass on so much potentially life-saving information when you realise that the person you're trying to teach may not take it seriously enough. Lots of people just don't grasp the gravity of their request when they ask about gas masks as a small part of their prep. You seem like you care enough about learning that I'm not wasting my time with my explanations, but understand that that's rather uncommon.
Selling an XM28 "Grasshopper" for $30.
Civilian masks will be the best cost effective and usefulness masks you can get. Suits are the same.
Don't buy into the milsurp meme.
>>29254925
Thank you.
>>29254947
No thanks
>>29254947
Nigger calling guy, you have a new target for all of your rage. Nice knowing you though.
>>29254976
No I'm good. I've got some Raisin Bran now and that mask would be pretty fun for a costume.
>>29255000
Oh, you were just hungry? I get a little cranky sometimes too when I get hungry. Happens to the best of us.
>>29255024
Dude you fucking bet.
>spent last two weeks preparing for three back-to-back exams.
>come home to discover my spring break is going to be spent in diddlyville nowheresota without an Internet connection and homework due online next Wednesday and Friday.
Can't even take literally one week out of the whole year to truly do nothing but drink and sleep 16 hours a day.
>>29255052
Okay well good luck
>>29253631
Get a full NBC suit, know decon procedures, get a commercially available mask from 3M or something, not milsurp. If you absolutely positively must have a military mask get an M50, which will run you 600-1000 dollars. Realistically speaking you're after CS gas, so go for the 3M respirator first, and then the suit. CS will still get in through/irritate your skin, but you have to keep it away from mucus membranes.
>>29255052
Shitty deal, but at least you're not dealing with the bullshit of sweating your balls off in a bunny suit and coughing your lungs out because of a tiny gap in the seal of your mask in a gas hut. It's all relative man.
>>29255120
The only reason I would consider a military/police grade mask is because the filters seem more plentiful and less expensive (New, sealed). Will the civilian masks accept the 40mm nato filters?
Looks like 3M makes an adapter that lets you use nato or 3M standard civilian cartridges or filters. It comes with several of their respirators.
http://www.approvedgasmasks.com/3M6000dinmanual.pdf
Anyone have anything else to add before it dies?
>>29253631
Not sure about surplus or milspec equipment however the civilian industrial market might be an option. Especially if you find it in auctions, bet there are closets of emergency gear that never got an emergency from defunct companies out there.
If not you can start by browsing sites like this...
http://m.grainger.com/mobile/category/encapsulated-chemical-suits/disposable-and-chemical-resistant-clothing/safety/ecatalog/N-j22?isDone=false
>>29254150
Look for a thing called JLIST its military standard chem suits
It has a:
Top with hood
Trousers with suspenders and velcro
Inner and outer gloves (black and white)
Chem boots that should fit over your boots
Also duct tape. Lots of it
