Hollis Vs Lynch
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![loretta-lynch-2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/kOPPONx.jpg "loretta-lynch-2[1].jpg")
what's the current status of Hollis Vs Lynch? any news?
we're down a supreme court justice are we screwed even more now?
too bad scalia had to die with his hunting illuminati brethren............
>>29253366
interested.
>>29253366
anything at all?
I think it's going to oral arguments in Pennsylvania in early april? Check arfcom.
Expect them to kick it back or give us a super narrow ruling.
ATF and Obummer already changed what it means to be a Trust and now require everyone on a gun trust to be background checked.
So the court can just allow Hollis his machinegun and then allow the ATF to continue to keep the register closed for people and trusts.
>>29253922
they said a trust is not a person therefor it's not limited by hughes amendment that specifically states no person shall construct or transfer a post 86 mg
What exactly would this change if we won?
>>29253960
you'd be able to pay a $200 stamp and register a new machine gun via a form 4 purchase or form 1 DIY.
9--12 month wait for them to stamp your paperwork is in order too.
>>29253983
OK. A thing I read said this would mean the repeal of the NFA- is that accurate or am I misunderstanding what the NFA is?
Also, how could we fight import restrictions on foreign firearms?
>>29254045
Yeah no, at best this would nullify the Hughes Amendment (which was illegally passed), and even that is optimistic
>>29254045
Not quite, it would end the language in the 1986 Firearms Owners Protection Act that effectively banned the practice of registering new machine guns, as well as potentially the language of the 1968 Gun Control Act which banned the importation of "non-sporting" firearms.
Here's a good article.
https://www.uslawshield.com/hollis-vs-lynch-a-very-complex-machine-gun-case/
We'd then be able to return to being able to purchase newly registered machine guns (so we'd get all sorts of new funs) and buy the stamp.
The main issue in this case comes from the fact that the ATF
Keep in mind if the registry does open up, there will likely be swift action to close it again.
>>29254170
Whoops, didn't finish my sentence.
The issue here is the ATF issued approval to manufacture a firearm because it was under a trust, then realized a trust isn't a person and revoked it.
https://www.uslawshield.com/hollis-vs-lynch-a-very-complex-machine-gun-case/
Hollis' argument is that the ban should be revoked because machine guns are perfectly acceptable militia weapons, at least according to that article.
>>29253747
First New Orleans on the 4th then PA the next day.
>>29253366
Supreme Court has already decided that the 2nd Amendment
- is incorporated to all states under the 14th A
- includes weapons that are "ordinary military equipment"
- is a fundamental right (meaning that any infringement is subject to "strict scrutiny")
already posted this in another thread but it bears repeating...
this means they have painted themselves into a corner on gun rights combine those precedent with the fact the ATF has allowed SOME private citizens to register full autos after the "go to hell date" (a violation of the 14th equal protection) as well as the raw data that shows since the registry has existed virtually no crimes have been committed with registered full-funs (the law does nothing to further a government interest and therefore does not pass strict scrutiny) the only way this case is lost is if the supreme court deliberately fucks it up on purpose
>fuck it up on purpose
>on purpose
but don't put it past them
pic related if we win
>>29255147
Pa bro here. Anyone have any idea what courthouse this will take place in? Might be cool to go see it.
>>29255281
Ffffeeeeelllls gggggooooooooddd
I really want it to pass, but I don't think it will, not under the militia argument
Repealing the NFA is not a bad thing, we will just have to pay our tax stamps and wait like we do for everything else, there will still be a national registry and comprehensive DoJ background checks, I don't see any problem with it, but I am a conservative person.
>>29255281
Details on the weapons registered after 1986?
I understand that people like Stickman and Jason Falla own Class III loan weapons from Noveske and KAC respectively, what is the legal precedent for this? Obviously they are post-ban dealer samples, but are these individuals incorporated into trusts with the companies, or are they simply being lent to them?
pic related
>>29255979
They tend not to release information on politically motivated cases like this.
In some cases they have only released information half an hour before the trial, just to fuck with a particular side.
Anyone know how long these kind of cases will go on for? I know it all depends, but what is an average timeframe? Could this take years?
>>29256954
Years and years.
Even though Hollis is in the right, politics and bias can still kill the case.
>>29257133
So no new full funs anytime soon?
>>29257141
Nope, and quite possibly politics and bias could turn a ruling against us and further infringe 2nd amendment rights.
>>29256880
we know of a few, and Hollis is currently attempting discovery to gain access to the registry to see exactly how many...
>>29256886
>>29255979
wouldn't it be in the district Superior court?
does the district have more than one court house?
>>29257807
they got it, it's in the hundreds of thousands.
>>29256855
in all reality, this is probably the best "reasonable compromise" we can hope for...
but, muh fredum
>>29257857
no shit...?
then we have a real case
normally this level of hypocrisy would piss me off
but there's nothing better than when it bits them in the ass
Why can't we just barter for this?
Like background checks for private transactions would be reasonable (and could protect your arse in court) provided the NICS was modernized and opened to the public.
I should be able to put my details into a webpage and receive an almost instant background check.
In return for this, reopening the registry for good would be fair - it would also speed up NFA permits.
>>29257916
At the time the registry closed there was less than 200,000 transferable machine guns.
As of December 2015, there's over 300,000.
>>29258106
>Like background checks for private transactions would be reasonable
That would require a de facto registry for all firearms in the U.S.
>>29258151
But I'm pretty sure the FBI doesn't keep the information from a NICS check after an approval
>>29258125
Holy fuck, that's not an insignificant amount.
This could actually go somewhere.
>>29258151
No it wouldn't.
Run it the same as it is now, just open access to citizens.
Also, a watchdog group to keep track of the FBI and ATF and how they handle data/records would be nice.
>>29258125
I thought that included firearms owned by LEAs and such, which would explain the increase
>>29257807
>we know of a few, and Hollis is currently attempting discovery to gain access to the registry to see exactly how many...
We know exactly how many. The NFATCA won their FOIA request:
Pre 86 (transferables): 175,977
Sales Samples (pre May keepers): 17,020
Restricted 922(o) (posties): 297,667
>>29258492
Keep in mind, there's a lot of deal post sample guns in there, but nowhere near enough to make up that number.
>>29258515
Government bodies and agencies are not required to register their firearms by the NFA.
It would be funny if they did - image the pain of any police storeman/quartermaster maintaining those records and filing the applications, getting them rejected due to stupid shit.
>>29253366
>We are down 1 justice
>Hillary is most likely to win
>courts now solidly left wing leaning
>courts stay solidly left wing for a long ass time
This is the only reason to vote for trump.
He is fucking insane but we need another justice that rules in favor of the people and not in favor of what his left wing agenda tells him too.
>>29258557
Truly the lesser of two evils
>>29258151
>>29258475
>>29258513
then how do you prove you did a background check?
in order to enforce "universal" back ground checks you would need a record of every transaction or a record of who owns what
either way is a defacto registry
>>29258570
You don't need to, you just do it to cover your arse when selling privately - maybe a printout containing the buyer's name stating that a background check was done.
Nothing should be stored for longer than 24 hours on the FBI servers.
>>29258475
>yfw the ATF actually does keep all this information stored digitally
That's how they know where a gun was bought when it's used in a high profile mass shooting.
>>29258607
Hence why we need a watchdog.
Or current honour system with the ATF doesn't work because they have no honour.
>>29258604
The point is if there is no record maintained elsewhere there is no proof. Woohoo you get a printout saying a background check was done that can't be verified. It proves nothing because it can be copied and forced easily. If you can buy scanable IDs a printout with no record on the back end is a complete waste of time.
I also do not trust the government to not keep records through a combination of malice and incompetence.
>>29258607
The ATF does not handle NICS.
The only thing an open background check system would do is allow private sellers to judge the potential threat of whoever they're selling to.
It would actually see some use, since there's always people who want a background check done even for private sales, but there's no way it could be legally binding without a full registry.
>>29258607
I thought the fbi handles nics checks?
>>29258607
FBI handles NICS, but for every NICS check there is a 4473.
>>29258151
>muh "de facto registry"
Shut up with this chicken little, sky-is-falling bullshit. This kind of misinformation is exactly why we can't make any progress. Just go back to screaming "Shall not be infringed!" so we can ignore you.
>>29258513
Frankly, a watchdog group to keep track of how the entire government handles data and records would be nice.
But the FBI and ATF would be a nice start. Shit people, we could start a call for this sort of thing right now.
>>29258557
>wants to crash the entire country, to save the supreme court
This is why single issue voters suck.
>>29258518
I reccomend reading page 187 of the arfcom hollis v holder thread for a nice breakdown of the numbers.
Tldr there are just over 50k more mgs reported by the atf for 2015 than the records from the foia request claim.
>>29258634
The point is to satiate antis and make sure you're not pulling an ATF and supplying gang bangers and cartels.
>>29258879
with out a registry of some shape or form Universal background checks are unenforceable
how do you prove that a BGC happened for THIS gun that you sold to your friend "Tyler" without being able to pull up a record of that background check there's no way to prove that you did
(or for prosecution to prove that you didn't)
>>29258890
not that guy, but i just want it to burn
if Hillary gets the democratic nom, i don't care who gets the republican ticket.
>Anyone but Hillary '16
>>29255979
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1681489_NFA_cases__Hollis_and_Watson_v__Lynch___new_5th_circuit_filing_3_8_16_p_187.html&page=187
>>29259024
I understand it is a PR move but if your defense in court is "I have this easily forged and non verifiable document that says I didn't break the law", well I don't think you'll be successful. Id just as soon not have our tax dollars spent on a system that will do absolutely nothing in terms of protecting the seller/buyer, strengthening gun rights, or providing a useful service.
I personally wouldnt sell a gun to a person i dont know or cant check out and this is a the one place they got something right with the system CT uses; it is open to everyone doing a private sale as well as retailers. I don't agree that it is mandatory (it didnt used to be) and I don't agree that it requires registration as part of the system (you get a sales authorization number for despp will all the particulars recorded then mail a hard copy of the paperwork to them, the buyers chief of police, and you and the buyer keep a copy).
The most minimally invasive/registrative way I can envision a sales background check system actually doing anything to show you did your due diligence and to actually help you CYA is only sale is recorded with a unique sales auth number and who it is between. No other data is entered or stored. But again I don't favor making it mandatory and I don't favor it actually at all because of any level of registration.
>>29259215
Make it so the background check papers have to be notarized.
Then you're legally culpable if they're forged or the process wasn't done.
>>29259262
That's fucking retarded.
Possibly generating a unique identifier that can't be guessed.
The unique identifier would only be attached to a approve or deny in the system and all identifying data should be scrubbed.
