So what's the reason for the Italian army performing so poorly during WWII? I just read that Mussolini didn't really care about the high command and how it was handled and it also mentioned that the average Italian didn't like the constant wars that always dragged on longer than expected, but on the other hand I remember there were always a bunch of volunteers, even around '44 when Mussolini only held the north of Italy.
>>29182419
Laziness.
Debts.
The same reasons today.
>>29182419
italy just has not been good at war since the fall of rome. they suffered from inept leadership, unmotivated troops that really did not want to be there and mediocre weaponry. Italy did have a strong side though they were very capable of switching sides when they were about to lose
The Italian people weren't motivated to fight that war the way the German people were. Also Italian commanders were idiots.
At the start of the war the Italians had a great Navy and a decent air force. The problem is that everyone else surpassed them as soon as the war broke out and they all increases production and out out new planes and shit
>>29182450
People always repeat the meme of Italy switching sides. But it's not really the case. They got fucked hard by the US and Britain and they capitulated. They didn't switch sides any more than Japan or Germany switched sides. It's called "losing" lol, when you stop fighting the enemy and instead have to do what they tell you to do.
>>29182532
But they didn't really lose. It was more of a coup against Mussolini by monarchists and some fascists who just wanted the war to end.
>>29182450
>mediocre weaponry
Not Italian, but from what I remember, medieval and renaissance Italian armor was top of the line
>>29182614
Yeah. They got invaded right into Rome and got fucked. Then Mussolini ran away, got hanged by communists, and the country surrendered.
I'm just saying, it's not really the old "hurr durr Italy switched sides"
>>29182614
Yes, Italian weapons and armor were excellent quality in the medieval and Renaissance period. As well as Italian mercenaries
>>29182450
modern italians have nothing to do with people who regarded themselves as romans in the republic and days of the early empire. pretty much how mix of white trash, niggers, spics and jews calling themselves americans now is inherently alien to european settlers who founded that nation initially
>>29182816
You probably mean they imprisoned Mussolini, the Germans freed him again and he ruled Northern Italy for another 2 years before partisans got him in the last weeks of WWII.
>>29182450
That's not true. Italians saw a lot of good action, and their gear was easily amongst the best, swords, armour, you name it. Them sucking during WWII is another thing.
>>29182532
>>29182911
Wow, that really is a mess.
While pic related is pretty damning, and even though Italy's record in WWII was abysmal (see: North Africa) it does make me wonder what an absolute mess it would have been if the Germans had had to go through the Maginot line
>>29183270
How did this happen again? The Italians drove their train right in front of that fortress or what?
>>29182419
They didn't have the very good industrial infrastructure. They couldn't repair or replace a lot of the important equipment that they lost during the course of the war.
Their army was undertrained and inexperienced. Their victory in Ethiopia made them cocky and over confident, so they charged head first into a fight they weren't ready for.
>>29182908
And WWI. And the inter-war years.
Italians just don't have it in their culture to be good soldiers anymore.
>>29183834
Basically yes.
Plus the Maginot line (which had several bunkers in the French Alps, manned by the mountain troops) were pretty hard to capture. I've visited a few, including some which weren't supposed to be visited... They were well thought out and nicely blended into the environment.
The legends tells the first thing the italians did when they captured a french post was to take their rations because Mussolini wasn't sending any food at all, telling them if they couldn't win they weren't good enough to be considered soldiers, and thus were useless.
Pretty sure this had some effect on their morale...
Then during the 1941/1944 period it was even worse for the italians, with the french resistance owning the montains and repelling the italians from the heights. This allowed for Savoie to become a big trap for axis troops. I've known myself an old guy who participated into the retrieval and unpacking of weapons containers parachuted by Lancaster bombers for the french resistance. Essentially stens, Lee enfileds, plastic explosive and detonators, a few bazookas. The allies didn't trust the resistance enough to give them mortars though.
To sum up how the french population felt about the italians, there was, at that time, a common joke from french Savoyards (people from Savoie) children.
They planted black crow's feathers into bullshits on the roads, to mock the italians soldiers because they had a black plumet on their helmets...
Often the kids ended beaten up. But that didn't stop them from continuing.
Just to give you an insight about the situation the italians were in for the entire war in that part of France.
>>29184205
>to mock the italians soldiers because they had a black plumet on their helmets
That was specifically the Alpini (mountaineer corps)
>>29182792
Milanese armour for one.
Very, very poor leadership that believed everything was still stuck in a WWI mindset and lack of industrial direction.
Italian WWII soldiers were actually braver and more effective than most of the minor axis members, they received praise from the brits and germans for exploits under impossible circumstances, it's just that their command sucked way too much to be an effective fighting force and Italy never transitioned into the heavy industry tech necessary to build modern AFV's and heavy weapons.
A nice example of how Italy could have actually performed better had leadership not been in the way: in the air, Italian pilots were good and often had excellent aircraft, which meant that Italy was a good opponent in the air since air combat was more dependent on the skill of the single pilot rather than the botched strategies of the high command.
In general, Italy should have not entered the war. Benito was a complete idiot, not a good commander nor a good politician, he just had charisma. He doomed Italy out of a personal bet for power and influence in what was looking like a Nazi-centric Europe.
>>29182450
Italy was good at war even up to WWI, where they played their part in one (if not THE worst) fronts of the war in Europe. Before that time, Italy wasn't a unified country and each region fought for itself. National unity has always been a difficult topic for Italy, even today the nation is effectively split, both economically and culturally.
In any case, Italy had always a good culture and history when it came to war, weapons and stuff like that. WWII is a bleak moment because the fascist dictatorship pretty much sent the country to slaughter. Spain wouldn't have fared differently. The switching sides thing is really unfortunate, but it's what happens when there's no leadership and no will to fight for a useless war.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lissa_(1866)
>Italians
