so nerds riddle me this
>Get a lathe
>get a mill
>get a type 7 FFL/SOT
>make my own full auto machine gun for cheap
is this viable at all?
>>29167091
If you know how to use them then sure.
if by cheap you mean hundreds of thousands of dollars later sure
>>29167091
>lathe
>milling machine
>cheap
not to mention the time you have to spend learning how to use such machinery.
>>29167138
why would it be that expensive?
>FFL07 is $150 for three years
>>29167161
Its more everything else.
>>29167154
hold my beer cleetus!
>creates a fully functioning vulcan cannon in 5 minutes
this will be my flagship product for kommandos.
>>29167091
Machinist here.
I could make you a good sten gun in... a day? assuming I had no set up or fixtures made.
>>29167138
tens of thousands sure. hundreds? you'd have to be making a factory or something.
>>29167091
ATF pls go
>>29167210
I should also note >>29167154
Is very correct. MINIMUM two years edu. to consider yourself capable. You also need very good critical thinking/planning skills.
>>29167091
But how will you get the serial number on the block of aluminum?
>and sheet metal
>and shovel
Pretty sure you need a brick and mortar store.
>>29167263
couldn't i just chisel it in?
Sure, if you knew what you were doing. The key thing is not the making of the gun, its the whole "never telling anyone about it ever for fear of ATF buttrape" thing that stops most people. Guns like stens and lutys were meant to be made from materials you can get at a hardware store, its not difficult as long as you know how to work the equipment.
>>29167318
k. lets say i got a gun that's pre-ban full auto, but it was semified. if i made it full auto using my machinist jutsus, could i FAL it?
>>29167255
There's a fuckload of videos on making this kind of stuff though, if you had all the tools, it seems like you could follow the instructions, and with a bit of trial and error, make something resembling a functional gun.
Although one thing I've noticed, is that they never tell you how to make a magazine.
>>29167161
You weren't expecting to just walk into a Harbor Freight and walk out with a rented lathe and a mill were you?
>>29167846
It wouldn't cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to equip a backyard workshop though. My dad used to be a fitter and turner, then when he became a farmer, he set up a bit of a metal shop in one of his sheds, I can't remember exactly how much it cost to set up, but it was in the low tens of thousands.
I'm not American, but from what I gather from reading /k/, something like a fully automatic AK is gonna cost you what, like $5k or something? You could probably get some decent quality second-hand stuff for that, if you spent like a grand each on a lathe, mill, and a welder.
Then all you need to do is make a dozen Stens, sell them for $500 each to your local Hell's Angels, and you've already made back your money! It's an investment, I say!
>>29168052
It wouldn't cost hundreds of thousands, but if you ever intend to make more than 1 or 2 firearms, you're going to need to fork out some serious dosh to a point where it would actually be cheaper to try to own a full auto through the regular channels.
My father was a machinist for 30 years, I wish he had his own workshop. We'd be fucking rolling in funs
>>29168052
>implying fucking doing any sort of business with angels is going to go like it does in your head
>>29168052
>Then all you need to do is make a dozen Stens, sell them for $500 each to your local Hell's Angels, and you've already made back your money! It's an investment, I say!
Real life isn't a GTA game.
>>29167154
You can get a Chinese Lathe/Mill for like $5k a pop in NZ, im sure it must be cheaper elsewhere.
Or, 2nd hand english shit is pretty much scrap now, you can get really Heavy Duty, quality stuff if you look around a bit.
>>29167210
STENs are a poor design for homebuilding. they're designed with easy industrial/semi-industrial production in mind.
that "make your own sten at home 4 cheap" schematic floating around /k/ is an out of spec deathtrap
>>29167391
Magazines are generally stamped, this is beyond what home machinists can do.
Stampings only usefull on scale, if you made a custom firearm you adapt it to a existing magazine
>>29167091
Don't forget,
>Pay ITAR tax
>Somehow get the zoning board to approve light manufacturing at your garage
>>29168150
But not getting caught is the fun part!
You need to do business or the atf will take your ffl , take your fa toys, and shoot your dog.
>>29168079
>>29168089
Yeah, that part was a joke guys. It's why there's the gratuitous use of exclamation marks.
>>29167091
>buy $20,000+ lathe
>buy $80,000+ mill
>pay thousands a year and be subjected to ATF buttfuckery to maintain SOT
What do you think?
>>29167161
Plus ITAR and your SOT every year.
post ATF's face when good natured citizens try to into SOT
>>29168052
>something like a fully automatic AK is gonna cost you what, like $5k or something?
Try ten times that.
The cheapest legal full-auto available in America is usually an Ingram or MAC, and they start at $8000 usually. A registered AR lower (JUST the lower) starts at $22,000, and the cheapest full-auto AKM I've seen was $37,000.
>>29168118
And a Chinese lathe is typically only capable of mounting a 3-jaw chuck and able to be dialed in to within about 2 thou of runout. This is well into unsafe territory for doing chamber work.
Also it'll break in 3 years.
>there's a reason 30-year-old used Bridgeport milling machines still sell for tens of thousands of dollars
>>29168052
>make a dozen Stens, sell them for $500 each to your local Hell's Angels
>not American
The ATF will go to the ends of the earth while carving a trail made with the blood of dogs, babys, and mothers to find someone manufacturing full auto guns in their garage. They will spare no expense finding you. They will burn down homes and kick info out of grand mothers because some hill billy thought it would be cool to make an auto sear for his ar15. The ATF does not know the meaning of due process.
>>29168276
>ATF
>not American
...
If you ARE American, just smuggle them to Mexico and sell them to a cartel. This isn't rocket surgery, sheesh!
>>29168135
That's why 3d printers are great, they can make reliably magazine bodies and all followers. All you need is the spring.
>>29167091
OK, I work in the engineering (mechanical engineer) side of consumer products and I've worked with machined, sheet metal and plastic injection molded products. Don't quote me 100% but here is an idea of what you're up against.
So you'd need full on metal machining equipment. For mil spec tolerances, youre looking at keeping interfacing parts at at least a .002" tolerance, give or take +-.002 on top of that. To do that you need pretty nice equipment (CNC milling machine that takes CAD models and machines it for you) or have 8+ years of experience to do it manually on a manual milling machine.
You would need a 4 axis machine do most of the work (HAAS is about $22K a pop for a mid level machine) plus cutting tools, CAD software (7K for shitty Solidworks licence) and machining software which takes the 3D model and turns it into cutting instructions to send to the machine (SurfCAM is about 14K a seat). You'd also need the know how on how to even work this shit, cutting angles, what material will work best, how to clamp it while cutting, finishing surfaces, cutting depth etc. Doing this with a CNC machine with good practice can keep your shit within a +- .002 tolerance on some cuts. Others I'm not sure about.
Using a manual milling machine takes years of practice and know how on making good cuts plus even more know how on how to work the material. I wouldn't even attempt this unless you really know what your're doing. You could get a decent 3 axis machine and a metal lathe for about 9K a piece. You'd have to buy more equipment and know CAD blueprint drawings.
Making sheet metal parts, you'd either need a laser cutter with a folder or buy a turret (it holds cutting pieces and stamps out cuts into the sheet metal, pretty inaccurate). These take up a lot of space, they're generally massive machines to handle cutting metal with just pressure.
It isn't that easy.
>>29168295
>just smuggle them to Mexico
Good luck with that.
>>29168311
Depends how you print/design them. Getting a decent 3D printer that can print with that strength is pretty expensive. Plus you need one that has support material functionality since you're printing hanging geometry.
If you do plan on printing one, print it flat with the opening on the side since the print will be laminar, the printing layers will be perpendicular with the forces from the mag.
>>29168322
Disassemble it to maybe four or five packages per gun, then fly them over the border with a drone. Easy as pie!
>>29168318
This pretty much sums up how guns are just as complicated to make now as they were before electricity, we just manufacture them faster and cheaper now.
>>29168384
the govt hates people trying to cut into their business
now if you were a cartel member theyed gladly sell you as many guns as you want
>>29168379
You could print the magazine in parts then assemble it. AR-15 mags printed in regular 3d printers seem to work pretty good, though.
>>29168415
How are you putting the parts together? Screws?
For unthreaded ABS you need thread forming screws which generally need very tight tolerances on holes to work properly which a general 3D printer cant hold.
We have an industrial printer and it can at best print +-.010 laterally (X,Y) and tip thickness in the Z axis.
Adhesives are also difficult on ABS and tend to cause the plastic to become brittle and break easier.
>>29168475
If you made some joins in the parts that fit together, you could have some ridges and hold it together with some metal straps, like hose clamps but shaped. If you didn't care what it looks like, you could just make a metal bracket and screw it on either side.
>>29168475
I was thinking it could be fitted together with slots printed into the magazine, like ikea furniture.
>>29167091
If pakis can do it so can you.
https://youtu.be/_u2feHybSpw
>>29168534
That's actually not a bad idea anon, I think I might fire up creo and design some.
Good thinkin
actual 07 FFL/ 02 SOT here
If all you want is a full auto firearm, save up and buy a preban.
>3000 square foot warehouse: $87,000
>1980s CNC lathe: $5000
>Haas toolroom mill: $40,000
>the tools and fixturing you'll need: $15,000
>miscellaneous other crap to run a business (furniture, power installation, office supplies, ITAR registration) : $15,000
took me six years to make my first dollar of profit. With what I've spent I could have bought every single gun on my bucket list.
ATF will jump up your ass about dealer sample FA firearms. Each one will require a letter from a LE agency. The ATF will be very, very interested in your inventory. You better have a P.O. in hand to make each and every postban FA weapon or you're going to get Waco'd.
just buy a fucking preban.
>>29168744
If you were to design parts for yourself and machine them, does the ATF get in your shit?
If I were to send a self-designed trunion adapter for my side folding AK to a proto-house, would that be legal?
>>29167091
To be honest, your best bet after having all kinds of licenses worked out would be to learn about the world of subcontractors.
Why would YOU need to manufacture anything? Why not just make the technical documents and let someone with the ability to do the manufacturing do it and send a bill to your company? You could send each and every part to different companies for manufacturing if you wanted to!
Not seeing this option sort of tells me how much experience you have on industrial engineering projects. I mean, this is the basic stuff, come on man! :(
