We all know he was a genius in terms of engineering and creating the first nuclear propulsion based submarines, but how was he in terms of his war fighting capabilities? Was he a strategic and tactical genius as well in terms of naval warfare? I know he commanded submarines for a bit. What was Admiral Hyman Rickover like as a warfighter?
Also, general US Navy thread.
>>29129073
if he was a good tactician, you wouldnt be able to know whether or not he was a good tactician. your question provides an inherent catch 22
>>29129161
How is that?
>>29129073
Who cares? Not everyone in the military are warfighters, you needs experts in other fields too.
>>29129073
Probably the only good jew in government history.
>>29129167
Because the nature of submarine warfare means that nobody really knows what you did or how you did it until you make a mistake.
>>29129206
Why do you say that /pol/?
>>29129248
Is there any good sources you could refer me to? I would like to learn more about sub warfare but dont really know where to start
>>29129455
Because he was an actually honest man who got far on his own merits without ethnic networking and had the imagination and intelligence to actually succeed in a practical field (engineering) instead of merely giving the appearance of intelligence through an occupation that mainly produces sophistical writings.
A shame that in his last years the stress of trying to deal with embezzelment fraud in navy procurement led to his death.
He was very much an outlier amongst ashkenazim, and for that i can respect him.
>>29129730
Was he embezzling? And Some of the best engineers ever were Jews... whatchu talkin bout....
>>29129073
No, he wasn't much of a leader, in fact almost his entire staff hated him no matter who came in. But what mattered is that he completely reformed the Nuclear Sub program and made it so that only 3 major accidents have happened that resulted in loss of ships
>>29129750
what do you mean he wasnt much of a leader? He led one of the most important military programs of the 20th century
>>29129749
No way.
In the early 1980s, structural welding flaws — whose nature and existence had been covered up by falsified inspection records — led to significant delays and expenses in the delivery of several submarines being built at the General Dynamics
Electric Boat Division shipyard. In some cases, the repairs resulted in practically dismantling and then rebuilding what had been a nearly completed submarine. The yard tried to pass the vast cost overruns directly on to the Navy, while Rickover fought Electric Boat's general manager P. Takis Veliotis tooth and nail at every possible turn, demanding that the yard make good on its shoddy workmanship.
The Navy eventually settled with General Dynamics in 1981, paying out $634 million of $843 million in Los Angeles class submarine cost-overrun and reconstruction claims. Rickover was bitter over the yard having successfully sued the Navy for its own incompetence and deceit. Of no small irony, the United States Navy was also the yard's insurer. The concept of reimbursing General Dynamics under these conditions was initially considered "preposterous," in the words of Secretary Lehman, but the legal basis of General Dynamics' claims included insurance compensation. [67][68]
Outraged, Rickover furiously lambasted both the settlement and Secretary Lehman, who was partly motivated to seek an agreement in order to continue to focus on achieving President Reagan's goal of a 600-ship Navy . This was hardly Rickover's first clash with the defense industry; he was historically hard, even harsh, in exacting high standards from these contractors [69] – but now his relationship with Electric Boat took on the characteristics of an all-out, no-holds-barred war ( Running Critical: The Silent War, Rickover & General Dynamics, 1986).
The whole episode was a convoluted pile of shit, reading how it all ends will make you mad.
>>29129206
he converted to Christianity fairly early and kept that faith the rest of his life.
>>29130049
more to being jewish than just the religious component
Rickover is hated by every Nuke in the Navy. He had a hate boner for automation. Cursing sailors on LAs, Ohios, and Nimitz carriers to a lot of extra tedious work.
>>29130079
what.
the religion is the heart of the culture. cut that out and you're just another central/eastern european.
>>29130100
lol.. ummm... no. There is a culture that surrounds the religion too. Woody Allen and plenty of other jews identify as atheists. Does that make them less jewish? Jews, particular Ashkenazis, are a completely separate ethnic group than central/eastern european slavs. Ever notice who jews have a particular look to them? The same way every other ethnic group has a standard look to them?
>>29130212
Conversion to Christianity is a surefire way to have yourself ostracized from the Jewish community, secular or otherwise.
>>29130258
That doesnt change the composure of your blood and the culture you were raised with... I dont know how to make this any more clear to you. Larry David claims he is an atheist for God's sake. You dont think he is a jew now?
>>29130303
nope.
>>29129749
As to the second ashkenazim are underrepresented in 'machinist' fields. As a general rule, the harder it is to tell what the direct results or consequences of an action is in a field (such as journalism, philosophy, psychiatry, social science in general, and so on), the more likely they will gravitate to it, since it is easier to disguise frailties of imagination that result failures of outcome and to rationalize away criticism with sophistry (those in stem fields naturally tend towards the more 'theoretical' side of things, where you can slip through the cracks and keep up appearances by being very adept at symbolic manipulation. A whole race of Chinese Rooms esentially).
Tribesmen basically ruined the reputation of the humanities and are more or less the biggest source of all the (pretty much true) stereotypes about 'soft science' in popular consciousness. They are very over represented in these fields relative to population size.
>>29130308
Ok, I think someone is just funposting
>>29130369
And what about the 100s of the best Physicists who ever lived that all happened to be Jews? I mean... Einstein and Oppenheimer were Jews. That alone... They seem to do well when it comes to atomic... stuff
>>29130369
what are you even trying to say.
>>29130468
there are actually only a handful of 'best physicists'. jews account for a few, but not all. and they're mostly european jews. in europe, particularly germany, jews were traditionally forbidden to partake of certain professions and trades. this meant they ended up stuffing certain other occupations, especially science (not allowed to be engineers as i understand it). so you had an entire ethnic group forced into either science or banking or literature. figure the rest out for yourself.
>>29129926
Didn't General dynamics try to blame him for all the forged inspection records because he was requiring too many inspections than was reasonable to them?
>>29130583
I mean... they disproportionately receive nobel prizes for medical and scientific discoveries mang... that says something usually.
>>29129799
That just means he was a successful manager.
>>29130491
He's having trouble regurgitating all the indoctrination he lapped up.
>>29129073
he overstayed his welcome and pissed off too many people. Reagan forced him to retire.
>>29130468
The manhattan project was a massive nationwide undertaking involving legions of scientists and engineers, so no comment there.
Einstein basically cribbed special relativity from poincare and lorentz's work (without citation, of course), and godel did most of the math for him anyways. His biggest actual contribution was the photoelectric effect and getting hilbert to help him make general relativity (wherever you see a tribesmen marketing some great development for himself, you are sure to find a scrum of europoids who hes piggybacking off of).
He had some good ideas early in his career but with rare exception the greater portion of his adult life as a theoretical physicist (the next 35 years) was really devoid of any major theories or discoveries, just a lot of mumbo jumbo that did not advance much at all, as you might expect from someone whos supposed acomplishments do not reflect their character. He was ultimately a short-lived creative candle, who was fortuitous enough to belong to a tribe with a good long-term PR team and naturally a vested self interest in posing him as 'le smartist human bean ever'.
Meanwhile, you have people like Archimedes, Aristotle, Da Vinci, Kepler, Gauss, Faraday (he discovered the magnetic field and electromagnetic induction, and some of his experiments in physics and chemistry are regarded as the most groundbreaking work ever done in any lab and at any time), James Maxwell (foundations of quantum mechanics), Ernest Rutherford (Father of Nuclear Physics), Tesla, Westinghouse, Edison, Bell, Werner Heisenberg (quantum mechanics), and the like who never stopped inventing and creating until the day they died. Not only were they great thinkers, and advanced science, mathematics, physics, etc., but also actually *created* things that were useful to society. They are more adept at the most important or essential developments.
>>29130624
That wasnt the only thing they did.
Veliotis came to be indicted by a federal grand jury under racketeering and fraud charges in 1983 for demanding $1.3 million in kickbacks from a subcontractor. He nonetheless eventually escaped into exile and a life of luxury in his native Greece, where he remains a fugitive from U.S. justice. [70][71]
Subsequent to accusations by the indicted Veliotis, a Navy Ad Hoc Gratuities Board determined that Rickover had received gifts from General Dynamics over a 16-year period valued at $67,628, including jewelry, furniture, exotic knives and gifts that Rickover had in turn presented to U.S. politicians. Charges were investigated as well that gifts were provided by two other major nuclear ship contractors for the navy, General Electric and the Newport News Shipbuilding and Dry Dock . [72]
Veliotis also charged, without providing substantiating evidence, that General Dynamics had given gifts to other senior naval officers, and had routinely underbid contracts with the intention of charging the government for cost overruns. These charges were not pursued by the Navy, at least in part due to Veliotis' flight from justice. [67]
Secretary Lehman admonished Rickover for this impropriety via a nonpunitive letter and stating that Rickover's "fall from grace with these little trinkets should be viewed in the context of his enormous contributions to the Navy." [72]
The guy gets away scot free and then they turn around and use his very attempts to bribe rickover and a pretense for getting him out of the way. Hows that for 'thank you for your service'?
>>29130899
>(without citation, of course)
everyone in physics at that time knew what it was pulling from. you don't go around citing newton everytime you do differentiation.
>>29131400
And yet curiously, both men are down the memory hole today. Isint that funny?
Didn't his procedures in place basically sink the Skorpion and he was put major inquiry for it?
>>29131513
Procedure sunk the Thresher.
Rickover was a smart man who demanded high standards and represents both what an autist can accomplish if he's willing to stick to his delusional guns and has near infinite monetary resources AND exactly how NOT to run a sustainable high consequence low difficulty operation.
Fuck the guy. Had to die in order to get Type II microprocessor technology on boats and when they DID, the Navy couldnt get the ships back to dry dock for refits fast enough because that shit is fucking AWESOME.
>>29131513
No, but he was reprimanded for royally fucking up on the La Jolla
>>29132017
>exactly how NOT to run a sustainable high consequence low difficulty operation.
Would you mind expanding on that anon? Im interested in your perspective desu senpai.
>>29132389
Second.
>>29131513
as someone who has read the entire 300 page inquiry at work because he was bored it was electric boat QA's fault not his.
>>29132389
>take people in job that requires regular navy fuckery
>create super stable designed reactor
>create super strict procedures to follow and memorize
>have operators operate the reactor on the very cusp of allowable limit, DESPITE safe design and built in margin
>hammerfuck the living SHIT out of said operators for marginally exceeding limitsfor even a few seconds
>critiqued, removed from watchstanding, issued an upgrade where you requalify the watch station, then talk with officers who dont have your operational job AND the procedure in front of them about hownaughty of a boy youve been and how youll never do it again.
Then have the entire engineering department do endless training and monthly re-exams on in depth tech manual level questions on each other's watchstations while your maintenance has you flipping between six different parts of a procedure in THREE different books that you need to perform in order as written or you do it all over again.
And god forbid you find an out of spec. Now your entire system is considered broken from tip to tail until you triubleshoot to find what's wrong, replace having to maintain accountability and cleanliness controls on the parts, and THEN prove the system works using retest requirements found in seven different manuals and tech manuals.
All while making only $5/day more than anyone not in the engineroom who gets to go home everyday at 1400 when not underway.
>>29134589
Haa, that really *is* some high grade autism.
I guess the question though is could you (or how would you) ensure the same accident rate with less autism?
>>29131507
Dude, if you follow mainstream media, pawnshops are supposedly a "historic" subject
Making mostly a joke but you gotta admit that the history of physic isn't something a lot of people study a lot.
It's like asking who was the best baseball player was before Babe Ruth. If you don't have a heavy interest in the subject, you won't know it.
>>29129073
I don't know but at least there's this
>>29129455
Read Blind Man's Bluff
>>29134589
Kek, thanks for reminding me why I got out after 6yrs.
>>29134589
butt hurt RC div member detected
>>29134589
Try having to write those goddamn manuals...
>>29134589
even if it's inefficient, I think that's okay. desu it takes on atomic incident to turn everyone off nuke subs, so it's better to play it safe even if it makes life hell for a relatively small population.
Ya,ve need more Jew Admirals.
President Carter served under him.
>>29129926
Read Blind mans bluff.
required reading for anyone wanting to know what they're talking about regarding Rickover,Electric boat co. and US submarines.
I worked at General Dynamics/Electric boat Co. in Bremerton wa. I am in the know.
>>29139937
Except the manuals were written at a time when underatanding of nuclear power was JUST this side of "shit's magic yo."
The autistic level of nuclear control also makes nuclear propulsion almost incomprehensible to outsiders and thus outside of greenpeace is the single leading cause of ignorance and thus FEAR of nuclear power.
>>29139937
>makes name for himself demanding efficiency and results
>builds a buerocracy based around waste of man hours and procedure over operator knowledge
>>29135067
honus wagner or ty cobb.
duh.
>>29129073
>Served into the 1980s
>WWI Victory ribbon
Rickover had to be the last active duty servicemember of the to rock one of these bad boys.
Can any military history nerds confirm?
>>29141621
according to wiki he got it on a technicality. he was in annapolis during WW1 and that used to count.
but yeah, he's the longest serving commissioned officer. 63 (!) years of service.
>>29130761
which is to say, leader. suck it, subordinate.
