Knife sharpening thread.
What do you anons like to use?
I'm just learning to use waterstones. I think I do ok but I go from 1k to 6k and I think I accidentally dull it sometimes. after the 1k the knife will cut paper half decent. I use the 6k and polish the bevel but it doesn't cut paper as good.
Is this because the rougher edge of the 1k has more burrs perhaps and doesn't catch the paper or something. Or am I just putting a few bad strokes into the 6k and rounding that edge I made on the 1k.
Pick related
>before
I'm thinking the 1k is actually easier to use because one or two strokes puts an edge on it if its half decent. So a mistake could be undone quickly. With the 6k I make a mistake with my bevel angle on one or two out of 10 passes and don't notice, or my last 3 passes arn't enough to fix it. Or something...
>after
bump
>>28894287
You saying you go from 1k to 6k just like that? No other stones, or stropping? Also you using a marker to see where on the edge you're hitting?
I love using stones, it is some thing that does take practice. If you're not gonna practice with them, getting some thing like a lansky system is best....In fact a lansky or lansky type clone system is just all around good. Always on that set angle, simple as fuck to use.
Also if you use stones, make sure the edges are smooth and not jagged, or else it'd fuck your shit up.
>>28894398
yes 1 to 6k is that too big a jump? and yeah I used a marker to get the hang of it but Ill use it more even when I got to the 6k. Yeah I have a 220 that I use if its all chipped and fucked up.
>>28894398
I got these. First stones.
http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/3-Stone-Naniwa-Traditional-Set-with-6000-Grit-P566.aspx
>>28894457
Good choice in stones, got the same kind.
I've had best luck with slowly building up..As I go up through stones and start getting to higher grit, I start doing less strokes and lil less pressure.
Also when you strop, which is also shaving off metal too, make sure to throw on some polishing compound.
any one have one of this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUqpUQuxjZ0
will they work with chisel egde on the AK bayonet?
Only this and a strop.
Mirror finish hair popping goodness.
>>28894654
Strop? Like with leather? I don't have that yet. I'm trying not to do this thing where I get interested in something so I just spend $1,000 online getting shit for it lol. I'm gunna get a flatening stone next and I'll grab a strop and a lens to look at the edge next.
$8 cheapass surplus store whetstone. Don't know the grit, probably 1,000 or less.
On my kitchen knives, I mainly use a diamond-crusted steel for finer work and deburring, and one of those cheapo "pull sharpeners"
Nothing I have is particularly good, and the sharpening shit I have gets it passing paper tests, which is pretty much my silver standard of sharpness.
>>28894752
won't work, the blade is like \| and the sharpener will try to make it like \/ and fuck it up
also the sharpener's angle can't be changed which is bad for a bunch of reasons
>>28894870
Yeah I'm still having trouble getting my knives to cut paper very smooth.
>>28894920
>this
yeah learning a traditional stone method is harder and longer but if you actually do get good it'll surpass any sharpening tools.
A dude showed me a wacky method to sharpening blades and it suprsingly worked well
use a Welding Rod to sharpen it
>>28894806
>>28894972
Thats sexy.
>>28894969
kek thats funny. Abrasives really arn't as scientific as people would think.
>>28894920
>>28894960
i do good with stone, and the result on my cheap knife is fine. but i still finding some way to sharpen that bayonet without fuck up the edge geometric
i just kind want to get that sharpening tool because it look neat and fast
>>28895066
yeah good for quick sharpen. I tried my kabar and it turned out ok. Edge is sharp but not like benchmade factory sharp (which used to be dangerous sharp). I ended up polishing and honing the edge a bit prolly so I'll play with it when I go to the cabin in a few weekends see how the edge does.
I stick to coarse stones until I get the blade nearly shaving sharp. Then I switch to the smoother grits. Wish I had a nice leather strap for stropping.
get yourself one of these
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4w_v8aPo6I
>works on a huge range of angles
>maintains a constant angle across all the stones
>easy to use once you've gone through the ordeal of setting it up and matching the sharpener's angle to the blade's bevel
>shit tonne of different ceramic/diamond stones for it online since this design has been copied by a few manufacturers and they all use the same stone attachment method, search edge pro stone
takes SOME practice but it's extremely precise and does an amazing job once you're familiar with it
>>28895262
Course being 1k? or less? I consider 1k to be relatively fine compared to grinding tools in general.>>28895262
>>28895285
Thats pretty cool. Nice system. I'll have to look into that. I am tryna learn the traditional way too though so I am a more versatile sharpener.
>>28895285
>>28895324
forgot to add, it's pretty cheap
>>28895330
Yeah I've been at it a few more hours.
I'm doing better. Got my fillet knife to cut paper. Still not shave hair off arm sharp though. Not sure if thats a good goal though it prolly creates a weak edge.
Like how the fuck do you acheive this. Technique obviously but is there some secret step or tool I don't have or like 10k stones?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rXgOTkhiNY
Strong is important
>>28895392
Autocorrect!
*strop
>>28895392
I'm gunna have to read up on strops.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixzRZGSLaIw
Check out this idiot proof system. Wheres the fuck in this? This is prolly how they get those stupid edges though.
Just make one. Mine is a drinks holder I stole whilst drunk at the Xmas party. The leather is from a fat bitches belt ($1). The holes on the back are handy for storing the rest of the leather!
>>28895613
The idea behind this step to polish off burs and imperfections in between stones? Or a final step?
and kek, good backstory
>>28894273
Shapton pro 250,1k.5k,8k,30k and plain leather.
>>28895654
Nice setup
>>28895626
Final step for me. I don't use stones, just the diamond/ceramics in >>28894806
The cost of stones is ridiculous here. Too much effort for my liking too. I can still push cut paper and shave hair easily with my knives.
>>28895654
Aaand that would cost more than my knives put together. And my monthly rent. And my education.
>>28895702
Yeah waterstones are not some magical system for making stupid sharp knives haha. The simple modern systems are much better. I just like the tradition of it. Very relaxing enthralling process too.
>>28895716
same same haha.
>>28895702
I'm reading that stropping just aligns that fine microscopic edge without abrasing the edge. This really make that big a difference? I'm bout to go to pleb mart and buy a belt.
>>28895702
Does the strop have to be on a block or does it work just as good running it across it while holding it taught.
>>28895680
Sure is.
>>28895740
It makes a bit of difference. Its not totally necessary. I can get a shaving edge with the medium diamond stone in >>28894806 alone. It does help get the mirror edge though with the polish.
>>28895790
Block makes it easier for me, not sure if the flat surface helps though. Someone else will chip in
I use my leather belt that I have had for 17 years. The inside is rough and I finish with the outer for the sharpness.
>>28895791
Please post some edges you have finished using these!
>>28895791
I just came a little.
>>28895965
>>28895791
yeah same same.
>>28895791
I couldn't use those stones to their full potential.
Lets see some edges anon!!!! Pic or it didn't happen.
>>28895936
Just genuine leather will work huh? No compounds or any bull shit just leather?
>>28896191
>>28896223
>>28895965 all I'm doing for now, gotta be at work. I'll post more 9pm pacific time.
>>28896331
Woof.
I have a shit-ton of stones, diamond paste, micron sand paper and stuff from Japan Woodworker. I went way overboard sharpening my woodworking/carpentry edged tools, I need to bust them out and have a go with some knives.
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/category/HT141-01/sharpening-stones.aspx?pagesize=100
>>28896907
How sharp you need a chisel to be?
>>28897601
I hone them to 9,000 to 15,000 grit as a final polish. the sharper the better to push through and less likely to tear out the grain.
put it this way, you don't want to put your weak hand anywhere in front of the chisel in case of a slip
>>28894287
Going from 1k to 6k is a pretty big jump. You most likely have some burr going on after the 1k, giving your edge some bite, but once you remove that burr on the 6k, it will take quite a bit of work to get it down to as fine an edge as the 6k will allow. If you don't use the 6k at all, the same thing will happen relatively quickly just by cutting things.
![truhone-028027_1495_large[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/qmX8qeb.jpg "truhone-028027_1495_large[1].jpg")
I sharpen things professionally, we use this for knives. Works well, very adjustable; though I wish I knew more traditional techniques.
http://www.truhone.com/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=3
>>28897881
>50% Longer Knife Life
this makes no sense.
>>28894273
i use a jig because i'm bad at angles
>>28897734
the worst/deepest cut i ever got was from a woodworking chisel my grandpa sharpened kind of like you do, it chopped the meat below my thumb to the bone.
>>28897928
Yeah I'm not sure what they're trying to say. Probably edge life. I don't work/shill for them in any way, it's just a cool machine and what I've been taught to use.
>>28897712
Thats nuts anon. Makes sense though for fine tools. Im here stuggling to get my knives geometry half decent and polishing to 6k haha
>>28897734
So that burring is guving the illusion of sharpness. I about figured. Thanks for clarification anon.
>>28897881
Looks nice. Freehand is a sexy proccess and fun but not good for commercial use. You can fuck up a clients blade with half ass geometry. Esspecially under a time deadline.
>>28897943
Ya my freehanding has my blades all fucked up.
>>28898017
it is a bit different though, when sharpening chisels and plane blades you need a holder that keeps the angle set as you hone, so the blades are locked into their bevel angle, much much easier than free hand.
>>28897928
Powered sharpeners tend to remove a lot of material. Repeated sharpening will eventually make a knife's performance decrease due to working the edge down past a decent taper, varied hardness, and change in blade geometry. My grandad used to use pocket knives until they were more like toothpicks, so they can be used beyond the points that I had mentioned, but they won't be nearly as good a tool.
I've got a 5-stone Lansky set and another I sort of built with 3 of their diamond stones and 2 fine/ultra fine ceramic stones. I use a Gatco clamp with them since it's a bit sturdier and has more angles.
I used them freehand on some smaller knives and got them surprisingly sharp so I'm thinking about picking up some sharpening rods or stones.
Any suggestions?
>>28898303
yeah, that's why it makes no sense.
>>28898489
Depends on budget and preferences, really. I've gotten quite into Japanese synthetics over the years, but I learned on Arkansas stones, and as some of my synthetics are wearing down, I'm thinking about getting some Arkansas again. I remember them being slower and not having as much of a responsive feel, but a combo of nostalgia and appreciation for natural stones has me considering it again. The soft ones are cheap even for good quality, and I know the hard ones have a nice compared to synthetics, so it won't be a big deal for me to replace a few stones if I decide I prefer synthetics again.
Norton makes some pretty good synthetics that are good with water or oil like Arkansas stones, too.
I'm not a huge fan of rods.
>>28898764
That's why it makes sense. If they're comparing it to other powered sharpeners, they're saying it removes less material for a good result, thus extending the life of a blade.
>>28898835
and I know the hard ones have a nice feel* compared to synthetics
fxd, but now sounds dirty
THANK YOU FOR THIS THREAD! I've been meaning to ask /k/ about this stuff for a while.
So, I do a LOT of cooking at home. I have a set of Wusthof Classic knives. About the only ones I really use a ton are a tiny paring knife, a 7" Chef's knife, and a 5" Santoku. The thing is, I used to have an old guy next door to me that would sharpen them for me in exchange for a meatloaf or something but I've moved away. Getting them sharpened professionally adds up quickly so I've been trying to do it myself.
I bought a Smith's Tri-hone thingy from Bass Pro and have been practicing on some shitty Kitchen Aid knives to keep from ruining my good ones. I can get a decent edge, I guess but I feel like I'm not getting anywhere near what the pros get. Any tips on how to get better edges? Tutorials or anything?
Also, would it not be better to go from handle to tip sideways? Everything I watch says to sharpen like I'm trying to cut up thin slices of the stone but I feel like that's making it uneven instead of going along the entire blade in a single stroke.
And what's the consensus on honing steels? A lot of pro chefs use them before prep but I've never been a huge fan. They feel like they grab and burr the edge to me.
tl;dr - help me not ruin expensive kitchen knives
>>28898835
I did some quick reading and decided water stones seem like what I want, at least initially. Norton's got a pretty nice set that looks to have everything I'd need to start, so I'll get that one soonish.
>>28898852
oh, 50% over other shittier power sharpeners. got it.
>>28894273
I use Sigma Power Select II waterstones for shaping my edge bevels (1k -> 6k normally, 1k -> 6k -> 10k -> 13k if I feel like doing a freehand mirror polish).
I like the SPS II stones because they are silicon carbide stones with minimal binder, giving them an extremely high cutting speed (so much so that I sharpen "super steels" nearly as fast as simple steels).
I them set my apexes with a Spyderco Sharpmaker using the F rods (a few grams of force, oil the rods, 5-10 passes per side).
This approach makes it quick and easy to get an apex that will trivially push cut newsprint with and across the grain.
How do you properly sharpen a Higo No Kami? I bought one in Japan for a novelty item and then discovered they come blunt.
>>28899200
is there actually a point in getting a knife this sharp? I feel like it would just make the edge horribly delicate and more likely to round over.
>>28894287
Glad to hear someone is trying to learn to freehand on waterstones.
The first thing is that you should be able to cleanly slice newsprint off a 1k stone, and if you cannot, it most likely means that you have not fully apexed the edge on that stone.
Only after the knife can slice newsprint cleanly off the 1k stone should you move to the 6k stone.
Also keep in mind that waterstones tend to produce a slurry/mud which contains floating abrasive particles. This slurry tends to slightly round over the apex as you sharpen with edge-leading passes.
As a result, you should either get a loan d strop or solid sintered ceramic stone to micro-bevel with after your last waterstone
OR
You can finish up by making the last few passes on this 6k stone using alternating with edge-trailing strokes to create an unrounded apex.
>>28896246
Nothing but leather.
>>28899263
That depends on the scope of work you want the knife to be able to do, whether you need high push-cutting sharoneaa, and how much edge retention you need between touch ups.
Basically, I look at it the other way around from you: what is the thinnest edge geometry, highest push-cutting sharpness apex I can run for my EDC uses without it chipping/rolling or getting dull too fast?
The knife in that video will have no trouble slicing double walled cardboard, zip ties, clamshell packaging, and doing food prep, so it works for me and I get to enjoy the extreme cutting ability.
>>28895285
Not worth it, in my opinion. Way too slow compared to freehand and the precise angle control doesn't matter at the edge-bevel shaping stage anyway. Freehanding and then using a strop or .micro-bevel would be waaaaayy faster and easier to avoid burr formation/retention.
>>28898894
Anyone want to help me out?
>>28897881
You fucking mangle knives, you don't sharpen anything with that evil machine.
>3/4 to 100 and no one has posted the best answer
one of these with a selection of appropriate grits and a leather belt to finish is hands down the best option for sharpening your knives OP. You can put any shape and any desired polish on in about 5 minutes flat.
You'll want to grab a handful of knives from the dollar store to practice on but you'll never go back
>>28899263
actually a finely honed edge will stay sharper longer. basically under a microscope the edge is serrated by the grit it is honed to. the smaller the serrations the less likely they are to be broken off during use, which maintains the sharpness longer
>>28899369
Making full heel-to-tip strokes is slower, but for some people (me) it makes angle control much easier. I've never gotten the hang of short scrubbing passes.
A smiths tri-hone set up will work fine, just remember that you should be able to slice newsprint off the coarsest stone, and don't move to finer stones until you can.
You may want to look into a strop or learn to micro-bevel using your finest stone in the tri-hone as well.
>>28899478
Sorry, but that is incorrect.
Unfortunately, finish grit and edge retention are inversely related: A coarser edge will last longer precisely because of the larger microscopic serrations, as it will take longer for the points to be worn down to the scallops.
The plus side to a higher grit apex is being able to make cuts with less force and less of a draw.
>>28898894
fuck all that slicing jazz. sharpening is the process of removing metal from the edge until you hit the apex of your final bevel. think about that rather than slicing or any other retarded metaphors.
I personally find it goes quickest if i make fast small circles as I go up and down the stone, but the downside is you get a swirly looking end result that takes a lot of polishing if you want a clean look.
the tristone is the best way to start. start on the rough stone and DONT USE OIL just grind that edge until a burr forms and you're happy with the angle. you should be able to shave hair (not well) after the rough stone. try going really shallow, 12-15degrees to set that initial edge. go to medium stone and repeat the process but you you're polishing out the rough scratches here. once you have the burr, finish on the arkanasas stone. spend as much time as you like getting it polished up, and then strop it with white rouge and that should be well past shaving sharp
>>28899521
Why would you advice against using oil? It prevents swarf from loading the stone.
I've been learning how to freehand sharpen as well over the past month. I'm a broke sunovabitch and I use a 6 dollar combination stone I got at wal mart coupled with a honing steel I got from a flea mart. My knives cut paper well enough for my liking. The only one that I managed to get scary sharp was my opinel. that thing is like a razor now.
>>28899519
it is correct for woodworking tools, maybe that has something to do with what it is cutting through
>>28898835
hard black arkansas respond to technique more than anything else. you can easily get well past the polish available on waterstones on one if you practice. they're about on par with the coarsest grade of rouge, although IMO the strop is easier at that point
>>28899534
cuts about 50% faster and lets you be more precise. this has been studied. people use oil because it keeps the stones from loading up, but you can clean the stones out with soap and water in about 3 seconds.
>>28899396
you got me
>>28899419
whoops forgot link.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Combo-Belt-Sander-Grinder/H7760
this is the best answer.
>>28899591
I'm aware it has been studied, I've just seen the opposite conclusion: Oil allows the stone to cut faster.
>>28899613
Where is the liquid cooling? Or do you like burning the shit out of your edges and thereby ruining the heat treatment?
>>28899521
Okay, I'm going to try again with one of my shit knives. I don't give a fuck about looks. I just need to be able to dice veggies and trim steaks.
Arkansas stone? The finest one on the tri-hone?
And what's this about markers? I'm assuming we're talking about marking the edge in sharpie so we can see how we're doing?
I thought the roughest stone was for resetting a badly damaged blade and the medium and fine were for resharpening a good edge.
Thanks for the help, guys.
>>28899644
It does say coolant tray on the bottom so I assume it's there.
>>28899658
Until you are experienced at it, I would start with the coarse until you have a burr on one side, flip the knife over and sharpen until you have a burr on the other side, then move to the medium and fine to refine the apex.
Oh, and since people were talking about mirrored edges earlier, here is one of my freehand edges.
>>28899619
in industrial applications this is always true, although water is the better lubricant Freehand, you are not capable of generating swarf at a pace that justifies oil or water on the coarse stone. on the medium and fine stones its up in the air- result were inconclusive. This is only for knives and only for hand sharpening. But that dude I replied was having trouble getting results, so switching to dry grinding will get him to a tangible result faster
>>28899539
that's the difference between good steel and dogshit steel.
>>28899644
don't need it on the belts and the stone wheel has a water tray. I wouldn't use the wheel unless I was radically reshaping a knife anyway, making a replacement pocketknife blade or a broken tip or something. In the case that you ruin in the edge while reshaping and then take off the burnt edge with the belts.
God damnit /k/.
Now all I wanna do is sharpen knives....
>>28899658
consider them all badly damaged until you have put your own edge on them from coarse
>>28899519
It may sound counter intuitive but it's true, finer micro serrations will last longer, the blade isn't any thinner the serrations are just smaller. As they get smaller it approaches a single unserrated edge that wont have the a bunch of small edges to break off (dulling)
I use diamonds, leather, ceramic. I'm no master but can get a pretty decent edge.
>>28899752
I get that, I sharpened an okapi, which is 1055 carbon, and a mercator, which is some sort of high carbon (this one got pretty sharp) and my leek, which did get pretty darn sharp with little effort, but the opinel is just miles ahead of the others, I've been using it for food prep the past few days and it glides though shit without even a hint of resistance.
>>28899805
Again, no, sorry, you are incorrect.
Cliff Stamp has done extensive testing of various grit finishes on the same knife and found a very strong inverse correlation between grit finish and edge retention.
You can read the thread (and methods) here:
http://www.cliffstamp.com/knives/forum/read.php?3,37143
In the chart, TCE measures edge retention (higher bars are better).
Again, the logic supports the same conclusion: A serrated knife retains its ability to slice well after a plain edge has dulled, and for EXACTLY the same reason that microscopic serrations increase edge retention: The points protect the scallops.
Also, the microscopic serrations of a coarse edge tend to promote wear by micro-fracture of the apex, which tends to partially re-serrate the apex in use.
>>28899808
Honestly, as someone who used to use diamond plates, waterstones are waaaay faster for mid to high grit results.
Basically, diamond plates are all effectively coarser than their grit ratings because of the deep and well defined scratch patterns they leave, whereas waterstones tend to leave a finer scratch pattern relative to their stated grit.
This basically means waterstones will get to higher levels of polish much quicker than diamond plates. They also have the advantage of minimizing burr formation/retention, leaving a cleaner apex before moving to a strop or micro-bevel.
http://www.stingingedge.com/
I own one of these and can't say enough good shit about it takes all the skill out of sharpening. I'm kind of mad though the price was 500 and I think they dropped it to 300 it's still good
>>28899930
>http://www.cliffstamp.com/knives/forum/read.php?3,37143
quoted from your link:
In short :
-very high initial sharpness
-extreme edge retention
>>28899930
>Cliff Stamp
ohshitniggawatrudoin.jpg
>>28894818
Just use a leather belt for a strop
>>28895289
What bitchmade model is that?
I just use an oil stone with a fine side, and a rough side. I use the matchbox technique (not official name ) where i sweep upwards with the blade facing upwards as well, slanting it at a 35-45 degree angle for each side
>>28899930
There's so many variables there that the conclusions don't mean shit.
>>28894273
250
1000
ceramics
rough strop with cutting compound
Smooth strop with cutting compound.
I use a skandi with microbevel.
>>28900097
Fuck right off. That PhD physicist in materials sciences has done more for the state of science, logic and evidence based knowledge about knives than anyone else on the internet.
Everyone hates him because he exposes the mountain of charlatans in the online knife community (hint: there are LOTS).
>>28894972
looks good.
>>28900348
Please list those variables and how the methodology failed to control for them. I'll wait.
>>28900491
Yes, you will wait, because if you can't figure that out on your own and keep such an asshole attitude, I won't even begin an in depth conversation. It isn't worth the frustration.
>>28900080
Stop that.
Unless you have zero reading comprehension, it should be obvious from the study results that initial sharpness and TCE (edge retention) are strongly inversely correlated.
Once again, the logic behind why is quite straightforward:
Blunting of a cutting edge occurs through a combination of microscopic chipping, microscopic rolling, and the slow wear (and thereby thickening) of the apex.
Microscopic serrations protect portions of the apex from these wear modes because the microscopic points protect the scallops, and where wear occurs by microscopic chipping, the edge self-serrate in use.
The effect of points protecting their scallops in extending edge retention is a well known phenomena in macro-scale serrated edges.
I've been tempted to cop a Lansky
I use king polar water stones.
Up to 8000 grit.
Tormak for the win
>>28900540
The same knife was used (eliminated geometry induced bias), multiple runs were done on each stone, the abrasive media used were random sampled to minimize systematic bias, several sharpening stones were used, and a consistent pattern with well contained standard deviations were recorded.
This is more work put I to bias elimination than I have seen anyone else put in outside of published research literature.
I don't mean to sound hostile but I have seen far too many people in the online knife community who are primarily interested in obfuscation rather than open discussion.
>>28900593
Tomeks are really neat machines. Fast, easy to use, minimal risk of overheating the edge.
I really know nothing about sharpening knives, can someone suggest a good all in one setup for sharpening knives?
>>28899713
I came anon.
>>28899930
that test is retarded, his subject is cutting fucking paper, hoe a blade holds an edge against paper will tell you nothing about a blades sharpness or edge retention on real world materials
I don't know about you, but I don't use my knives to cut paper. 1000 grit edge will not last as long as an 8000 grit edge used on wood for example
>>28900597
Fair enough. That obfuscation exists for the very reason that the variables exist. Unless conducting extensive tests using wide ranges of techniques and materials, there hasn't even been an attempt made at getting optimal results for each sharpening media tested under various conditions on various blades. All that shows is results on a narrow retention test with a narrow sharpening technique applied the same to various sharpening materials on one blade. There's extremely little in the way of comprehensive results.
>>28900631
Budget?
>>28900631
Oilstone and mineral oil.
Ask your grandfather/father for one of their ones or get a $20 one on amazon.
My pop even made me a wooden case for mine.
http://www.amazon.com/Norton-Crystolon-Combination-Oilstone-Coarse/dp/B0001MSA5Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1455331285&sr=8-1&keywords=Oilstone
>>28900704
Slicing cardboard is the primary testing methodology to test edge retention because it is an abrasive medium that can be random sampled, can be cut without a cutting board biasing the results, and is readily available in the volumes required for multiple runs at each grit.
The purpose of the test was merely to observe this effect of grit finish on edge retention when slicing abrasive media, not to optimize anything.
The results, however, should not really surprise anyone: more serrated edges last longer slicing soft abrasive media than less serrated edges.
The test results show this so well that they actually rank the stones in a more representative grit order than the labelled ratings. For example, a Spyderco M ceramic is supposed to be coarser than an MXF DMT, but anyone who has used both will tell you that the ceramic is much finer. The test results correctly who a higher iSharpness and lower edge retention on the ceramic.
How does Spyderco manage to make such great knives at reasonable prices? I can get my $35 Tenacious sharper than my $200 Benchmade.
>>28900710
$100 or less? I dont really know the budgets
>>28900742
>Ask your grandfather/father for one
Pic related.
I dont understand the technique that goes into these. Any good tutorials?
>>28900701
>I would hope that it should be obvious that using this type of cutting and similar slicing cardboard doesn't give a complete picture of edge retention, it basically only shows half of it. On this type of cutting the rule seems to be obvious that :
>-edge retention is inversely proportional to grit size
>However in general not all knives are used for just slicing and so in general the 120 Sigma Power isn't always the best choice even though it dominates the above. If these knives were used for carving hardwood then the push cutting edge retention would like invert completely hence why chisels and plane blades don't tend to be sharpened with such a coarse finish.
>>28900839
that's not a problem with the benchmade or a plus for the spyderco. it's just you being retarded
I have a 2 sided stone for my pocket knives, and use a steel hone for my kitchen knives. It does the job, however my kitchen knives lose their edge pretty fast on my cutting boards, so im thinking of investing in knives with a higher rockwell. If that happens, ill need to buy a new hone steel too.
>>28900794
>the effect of grit finish
And there's the rub.
Grit finish will vary quite a bit depending on the technique used on different sharpening media.
If edge retention is going to be tested, then various techniques need to be applied to different sharpened blades with different edge characteristics and retention tested on various materials, even if just to test the effect of micro serrations on edge retention. Continuing the earlier large to small scale allusion, there is a reason different types of serrated blades exist. Some do better than others under different conditions. Again, all this shows is a limited result which does not mean the presence of micro serrations always equates to better edge retention.
>>28900283
707
>>28900950
buy a less shitty cutting board while you're at it.
>>28900554
He says right on the first page that the highly polished edges are much easier to bring back to sharp.
Also, he's cutting hemp and cardboard. My dinner today involved neither. YMMV
>>28899967
>faster
agreed. Waterstones are known for cut speed being relatively higher then other stones of equal grain.
>>28900908
Yes, because edge retention in push cutting primarily depends on the apexes resistance to microscopic deformation through rolling or chipping (e.g. push cutting wood, plastic, cutting board contacts in push cutting food or rope).
The overwhelming majority of push-cutting tasks involve little-to-no slow abrasive wear, so you cannot really talk about edge retention in the same sense with those tasks.
>>28901325
I remember shoving my folder into c4 and using it to chock det chord on a plywood taple, def not the same edge abuse as cardboard cutting.
USMC
combat engineer rah
>>28900952
How will the grit of the finish vary depending on the technique used?
Also, if your later standard is to be applied we cannot meaningfully talk about knife performance at all since none of the existant testing out there meets it.
And again, if micro serrations don't equate to better edge retention when slicing abrasive media, then why do macro serrated knives show better edge retention in slicing abrasive media, and why does the same mechanism not apply at the microscopic level?
>>28901360
Chop det chord*
>>28900950
I work in a kitchen and I've found that by using a hone two or three times over a 2-3 hour prep intensive period I can get the knives to retain a workable edge (good enough to cleanly slice a ripe tomato with a chef utility knife) for months before it needs to have a new edge put on it.
The knives are like ten dollar sam's club specials, just plain jane stainless nothing special.
In the kitchen, the hone is your best friend. learn to love it. get in the habit of doing it the first time you pick up your knife every time you start cooking and you will be amazed how long an edge will last you.
ALSO I've seen a LOT of people using hones that really bear down on their strokes, and put a lot of force on it. By using only the weight of the knife, and feeling for the edge bevel you can touch up an edge in just a few strokes.
>>28901388
Yup, seen a butcher/taxidermist do this a lot. I thought he was a pleb but I researched it and found its the basic way to keep your edge with a daily ritual. Instead of dropping it off at your local ninja shop.
Also, pic related
>a rich anon offers to buy all this junk for me
>>28901228
What makes you believe that test results obtained using cardboard and hemp could not be generalized to all draw cutting?
Obviously push cutting is a different animal because it doesn't involve much if any slow wear of the apex, it is more of a test of apex stability (resistance to microscopic rolling or chipping) than of wear resistance and edge retention.
>>28901388
correction, just looked up the knives and apparently they are some sort of german high carbon stain free nonsense.
http://www.samsclub.com/sams/bakers-chefs-cook-s-knives-2-pk/prod5250044.ip
13.88 for two.
>>28901454
Pic related
>am drunk
You all are the type of hipster faggots that use a straight blade to shave. Pic related is all you really need.
>>28901469
So id have a 220, 1k, 3k, 6k, 8k, 10k,
I have 220 1k 6k now.
>>28901480
Says the makarov pleb...
Are you done anon? Adults are talking.
>>28901469
am also drunk. yay. I think i might eat an apple with my knife. that sounds like a good snack.
>>28901494
>he thinks that's the only gun I own
>>28901469
I wouldn't bother adding more waterstones. a 220x, 1k and 6k are plenty enough to get a hair whittling edge.
>>28901480
Good job utterly destroying the edge of your knife, you moron.
>>28901507
Kek
Quick fellow drunk anon. Post pictures on knives
>the OP has spoken
>>28901480
I've shaved with my knife before at work because I forgot to shave before I left my house. it works pretty decently.
I'll still take my multi bladed razor over that shit though.
>>28901514
Makarovs made in russia and makarovs made in bulgaria dont count as multiple firearms.
>>28901530
Passes the paper test so how exactly is the edge being destroyed? I don't need a fedora stone to have a sharp knife.
A wierd pick sticker a guy on fb was making.
>>28901532
there ya go. my newly sharpened back pocket slicer
>>28901554
those things are really fucking shitty sharpeners, friend.
>>28901566
woof, more ka naives anon
pic related, me wants but too expensive for a simple fixed.
I wanna sell/trade the kabar and that prince of persia thing in pic related.
I want all my blades to be non serrated. >>28901580
>>28901621
my favorite use for my vic awl so far. Beer can vent hole maker.
>>28901480
I actually use one of my knives to shave regularly because I can get it sharp enough to get a closer shave with less irritation than a brand new safety razor blade.
Sorry you're too pleb to achieve a similar feat, stay butblasted about it though, plebfriend :^)
>>28901642
Gross. Where the high end folder fool I like the sexy stuff.
http://www.benchmade.com/catalog/product/view/id/14351/s/169bk/category/371/
>>28901480
>makarov
>walmart kitchen knife sharpener
>pennies
>$150 folder
Is that fucking knife the most expensive thing you own?
>>28901638
>I want all my blades to be non serrated
people get way too anal about things being serrated. I have a feeling people that bitch about it the most don't even use their knives much, and don't know why you would or wouldn't want serrations
>>28901677
kek
I'm the OP and I approve this message
>>28901690
Let me spend my money in whatever stupid fashion I please.
>>28901642
I chipped the tip of my '68 doing that. Think it's covered by warrantee?
>>28901675
Then you should stick to posting stock photos I guess. I've only got cheap shit. but its all plenty sharp.
>>28901701
I'm not saying you can't. but let me call stupid people stupid if I please.
>>28901712
"Lifetime Warranty. Victorinox AG guarantees all knives and tools to be of first class stainless steel and also guarantees a life time against any defects in material and workmanship (save for electronic components 2 years). Damage caused by normal wear and tear, misuse or abuse are not covered by this guarantee."
probably not.
>>28901712
drinking beer is misuse?
>>28901722
very well then
>>28901754
I think routinely driving your part of your knife through metal might count as outside the realm of normal wear and use. However I could be wrong. Someone should ask victorinox.
>>28901773
kek
>>28901720
You have a strange collection anon
Seriously though I wanna sell that serrated benchmade and kabar>>28901638
>>28901790
My collection is odd ya. I just like knives that are old designs and don't cost much.
>>28901701
Fuck off fat fuck. Nobody gives a shit if you're OP.
>>28901677
>>28901580
>>28901544
>>28901530
>>28901494
>Hurdurr my knife can cut through time and space cuz muh 20 degree angle.
You faggots are just mad that I do the same thing but with an easy/convenient device.
>>28901817
It seems like you are the one who is mad. It's probably the cognitive dissonance causing you to get so anally cratered from your total lack of sharpening skill :^)
>>28901642
New drinking game. Different knife, same job.
>>28901817
>sharpening an s110v blade on that
Good luck buddy
>>28901906
>>28901915
You should slow down your calorie intake.
>>28901733
oh well, the blade is still great for a nearly 50 year old. edc, gets used everyday
>>28901931
You should slow down your oxygen intake
>>28901939
>>28901931
you should both slow down your dick intake
>>28901931
new drink
new knife.
>>28901951
Ha ha, nice
>>28901817
What gun is that on the upper right?
>>28894273
i use this op, it works real good
>>28901997
You tease, the thumbnail made me think you were exposing your hairy stomach.
>>28901983
Jericho 45
>>28894806
This.
I use a $15 Arkansas stone and strop on the leather case it came with. I could shave a pussy with my Opinel and not leave a bump.
>>28902007
no. this is my tactical fuzzy blanket. my stomach is very hairy, but not white.
>>28902027
post belly
>>28902059
Thats a very odd request. You a pudding pusher or something?
>>28902085
Can I get sauce on that knife? Really digging the looks of it.
>>28902136
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Coleman-Fixed-Blade-Knife/13848673
yo fags i need a recommendation for a good drop point folder. it'll be a skinning knife so it needs to be smallish and have a comfy grip
>>28902164
thanks senpai
>>28902191
wouldn't a case junior sodbuster be perfect? or a Trapper knife?
>>28902193
No problem.
Where do I find a decent strop? i've been using solely stones and steel to this point. also, more knives and alcohol
>>28901817
Do those things actually work?
>>28902407
who knows? that guy sure seems to think so however.
>>28901952
TWISTED TEA!
>>28897881
They demolish knifes. Saw a few blokes out at work who used them daily, and their knives disappeared after a few months.
I've had a go at a lansky system, or similar, and wasn't too impressed. Slows the process down a lot for me, but I was working in an industry where you use a stone at least once a day, maybe more. So you get quick or lose your job haha.
>>28899713
Wow i just love mirror edges
Picrelated my ZT. I cant get a good pic of the "mirrorness" so you just have to beleave me.
I use the Lansky System with the 5 Stones. i really can recomend it to People who are new to knifesharpening. Plus i use an old leatherbelt with some white polish-compound
>>28900631
I had no idea about sharpening knives and i got the Lansky: http://www.knifecenter.com/item/LSLKCLX/Lansky-Deluxe-Knife-Sharpening-System
and it works perfect for me see >>28906171
>>28899481
What's the benefit of a microbevel? And what kinda angle should I put on my spyderco dragonfly 2, with zdp-189
>>28906901
There are a few significant benefits:
1) It allows you to run a lower edge bevel angle since the micro-bevel is at a less extreme angle.
2) It separates the shaping of the edge bevel from setting the apex, and allows it to be done in very few passes.
This is good for getting a clean, straight, burr-free apex. It's basically way easier than getting the same quality of apex straight off a stone.
3) It allows you to take max advantage of very muddy waterstones that cut fast and automatically minimize burr formation (from the mud slightly rounding over the apex) since you set the apex as a separate step on a solid abrasive or a strop anyway.
4) it makes it possible to keep the knife touched up for an extended period by regularly making a small number of passes on the micro bevel or strop.
As for angles, I have a ZDP-189 Caly 3.5 that I thinned out the primary grind on to ~0.010" thick behind the edge, and run a ~7.5 degree per side edge bevel and 15 degree per side micro-bevel on.
For EDC tasks it is plenty strong enough.
>>28899228
Like normal? They've already got an edge established iirc, so just sharpen based on that. They do come disappointingly dull, though.
>>28906970
The idea being i set up my edge geometry then run a few passes at a more obtuse angle to make a small microedge right?
I have a couple old pocket knives and carry at least one every single day. Most of the time they get used for cutting cardboard, stripping wires, or opening letters so I make sure everything I carry gets a couple passes on the kitchen knife hone every Saturday. Occasionally I'll use a knife as a screwdriver, for chopping wood, or carving up some hard phenolic so I take the notches out of the edge with a finishing file, a couple passes on the stone (not really sure of the grit... 260 maybe? I've had for years) then smooth it with a hone. For axes, hatchets, mower blades, ice picks, and shit like that I just do with the 150 grit wheel on my bench grinder and call it good. You sure can't shave your face with any of my knives, but they are all kept in useable shape for everything I want to do.
