Body as a weapon
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
So when using your body as a weapon, what martial art would be most useful in a real scenario as a last resort. I hear Krav Maga is a meme, that karate and taekwondo are useless in a street fight situation. I have also heard that judo and possibly BJJ and kickboxing are probably the most applicable ones. What's /k/s consensus on this debate?
>>28877263
You're looking for /asp/
>>28877263
My body is a wonderland.
>>28877273
You're right. I'm a faggot. Mods delete thread please.
>>28877263
boxing is goat. I imagine any martial art is going to be useful to some degree though, assuming you say fuck the rules and play as dirty as humanly possible, because there's no honor in dying because you fought fair.
>bjj
>>28877612
Oh wow, so the reason bjj doesn't work is because a guy who doesn't even train bjj lost a streetfight against 10 people?
Seems legit . . .
Judofag here. The best martial art is IPSC, without a doubt.
But if you absolutely want to learn some unarmed martial arts, here's a list of good ones:
Striking:
>Boxing
>Kickboxing
>Muay Thai
>Kyokushin
>Sanda
Grappling:
>Judo
>BJJ
>Wrestling
>Sambo
Of course, everything depends on the club. There are shit clubs in those styles and great ones elsewhere.
Find a club which spars regularly and hard.
And in general, pure grapplers beat pure strikers but people who cross-train beat both.
>>28879475
The idea is that going to ground is fucking retarded.
It doesn't matter how big you are or how skilled you. If you are Gracie himself, you will still get destroyed by a pack of nig nogs with bricks.
>>28879928
There is literally not a single martial art which is effective against "a pack of nig nogs with bricks".
>>28879930
Gun-fu
>>28879930
I disagree
>>28877263
Go with judo or jiu jitsu, they were martial arts conceived to fight fully armored samurais in hand to hand combat. As a last resort, those two would work excellently. In a one on one, breaking someone arm or leg is entirely possible with both of those martial arts. There also choke holds and wrist locks which are probably the worst.
Boxing. Boxing, and then some more boxing. Once you have got your ass handed to you about 1000 times, then move onto grappling.
Head movement, head protection, and countering is 100x more useful in a streetfight than any fancy pansy "martial art". Once you have boxed and grappled for a few years, you might consider moving onto kickboxing.
If you REALLY want to learn a martial art, you legitimately need to travel abroad and study under a sensei for several years AT LEAST... And I'm talking as a full time job, 8 hours a day, every day. 365 days a year.
>>28879991
What? No they weren't.
Judo was invented in the 1880s and jiu jitsu was invented in the 1920s.
And neither of them compete with wrist locks.
>>28879928
>going to the ground is retarded
Bet you got taken down and beaten to a pulp when you were a kid, huh
>>28880008
He means rolling around locked onto one opponent is asking for a 100 ft run up from the guy trying to punt your head out of the map.
Basic principles of Hand-to Hand combat: 1. Keep your eye on your opponent 2. Distract your opponent 3. Disable or be disabled 4. Be aggressive 5. Any defence must become a relentless attack 6. Always feel superior to your opponent regardless of the latter's size, numbers or appearance of strength 7. There will be no time to think so all actions must be automatic 8. (Most important) Be single minded in your intent, to kill.
I'd rather have to deal with an angry, mixed up meth head than an individual who is deadset on either getting through me to something else or killing me.
>>28880047
What martial art/s do you train in?
>>28880001
Fuck off, gimme your ass for 11 weeks and you'll know all there is to know and just need to practice forever after.
LOL 'sensei' holy shit.
>Head movement, head protection, and countering is 100x more useful in a streetfight than any fancy pansy "martial art".
You're thinking like it's sport. What's your counter to being suddenly stabbed in the balls?
8 hours a day for years, jesus christ.
>>28880052
Started Taekwondo in 1987, travelled the world since 1993 either training with or listening in when people show their stuff. Trained with military, bouncers, wacky roleplaying trippers in Indonesia, kickboxers, one pro boxer. All kinds of stories and experiences, forget this style that style, it's the guy you have to deal with and how fucked up and ready to die he is.
Also knowing when to relax and realise that raising your hand isn't an option, that can save your life more than not hesitating when it's time to go nuts.
Internet martial arts discussions are brain-aids, talking was invented by the loser of the first fight.
>>28880084
>TKD
Your martial art is an absolute joke, and so are you.
>>28880047
>confirmed for never training
>>28880087
Give him a break, he's clearly just a victim of a McDojo.
>>28880086
That's where i started. Read the rest of the post. The all-Japan Karate tournament was started primarily to stop fat fuckwits saying crap like that. Too many people talking shit about their "style" so they started a knockdown event you just had to turn up to. Of course it was corrupt as all Japanese things are, but it stopped the mouths.
>>28880087
Generic internet response. Trained most days since January 1987.
>>28880108
So you train TKD with knockdown rules?
Or do you train TKD with TKD rules?
>>28877263
there is no 1 single best way
learn wrestling/grappling + something like BJJ/kick boxing
that way you can punch and kick people or take them to the ground and choke them out and be able to defend yourself in either situation
>>28879930
It's called situational awareness and running the fuck away.
Being on the ground severely affects both.
Sambo, but I'm probably biased because that's what I've been training in. For grappling at least it's the best.
>>28880092
Ok m80, i could spend a day posting and still some quadriplegic would have some mealy mouthed nonsense to drop.
I guess you'll never understand what an abortion >>28880001
↑this post really is.
>>28880116
So how exactly do you plan to stop yourself being taken down and choked out when you clearly don't practice any grappling?
>>28880008
Nope, but I've survived fights by staying on my feet. Going to ground will get you dead if there's more than one combatant.
>>28880125
An example of a martial art that teaches you to stay on your feet is judo. Literally the entire point is to not get thrown.
The vast majority of the "Nevur evur go to da ground!!!" guys have absolutely no idea how to stop themselves from being thrown.
>>28880124
You practice grappling and take down reverses, but in a real life fight you never go to ground.
One on one, ground fighting is great, but it sucks if the guy underneath you has a few buddies around the corner.
>>28880148
Okay, so what style of grappling do you train in?
Do you have any videos of yourself competing?
>Take down reverses
Just so you know, this term makes it pretty clear that you've never sparred in your life.
>>28880138
Oh I agree, but I never said not to train for take down reverses or grappling, just to avoid it in real life.
Too many people (particularly mcDojo victims) are affected by the idea that there has to be "Honour" when fighting.
Someone who's trying to stab you or gangbash you doesn't give a shit about honour.
Spit in your opponent's face, hit them in the groin if they try to guard you, if they fuck up a choke, bite a chunk out of their arm.
>what martial art would be most useful in a real scenario as a last resort.
Whichever martial art you can actually stick to.
>>28880112
First ten years, basic self defence and sport kyorugi. Sport taekwondo moves are useless. Became a coach, instructor, national level referee.
2nd ten years, just one-hit martial art, not sport. Combined with basics from everywhere else i've been. I hate grappling so if anyone tries that shit with me it's their eyes, balls or small joints getting wrecked first thing.
Since 2010, maintenance training.
Any kick higher than knee/groin is like betting everything on it. When the base foot slides during delivery you're basically being asked to get tripped and face-planted.
Then again, Mr Grapple9000 tries to shoot for a takedown and gets a back kick across the liver. After the coma he's all like "Fuckin lucky shot" but it just goes to show, there's no talking before or after the event.
>>28880116
under rated post
>>28880156
Krav Maga.
We spar heavily.
For the initiated, Krav is based heavily on Boxing, Wrestling and Judo, and focuses heavily on fundamentals.
Take down reverses are reactions used to stop tackles/grapples and immediately counter-attack.
I've used these sparring and I've used these in real fights.
>>28880163
>hit them in the groin if they try to guard you
With what, your fist?
GG, you just got triangled.
With your foot? In the process of getting your leg out, you just got swept.
>>28880167
>Mr Grapple9000 tries to shoot for a takedown and gets a back kick across the liver
Have you ever actually tried this?
Serious question. Have you ever competed in MMA?
Because it sounds to me like you're practicing one-step drills and thinking you know how to fight.
>>28880177
What ruleset do you use during sparring?
>>28880124
>So how exactly do you plan to stop yourself being taken down
Kinda depends where the opponent's head is during the takedown attempt. What, you've never tried to tackle a striker and walked into a knee to the head? Put your shoulder into him and got an elbow to the spine? Shit happens, training is working out how to make shit happen.
>>28880163
>Too many people (particularly mcDojo victims) are affected by the idea that there has to be "Honour" when fighting.
Nobody thinks that, these McDojo victims you're talking about are made up in your head or living a life so fluffy it doesn't matter what they think, as long as they pay their fees. They get fit, get to walk around with the feeling they can do something if shit goes south and that shows in their body language. Don't confuse the discussion by referring to hobbyist civilians, they are on another level entirely.
Incidentally, even the most McDojo of McDojos would be banned by an invading army holding your country, because social groups like that can turn into militias in a few weeks. You know it's true, but i think you just want to shit on someone today.
>>28877263
Don't know about krav maga's meme status in the US, but it's legit in Europe. It's pure self-defense, all working techiques taken from numerous styles, tweaked to apply to a wider range of scenarios.
People will shit-talk it because it's not an art that makes you good at cagefighting, not realising that it was never meant to. Most likely an attack is going to come from an untrained individual with a weapon and some friends, and what you train in KM will help a lot with that (kick them in the groin and run the fuck away).
>>28880183
No strikes to the side of the knee.
Individual rules and speed are decided by the two fighting.
Most commonly we use 8 oz gloves and spar in 5 minute sessions.
We do stress sessions where one person is sparring two people; it's about learning to line up multiple attackers to prevent getting attacked by two people at once. Basically two people are set after one person and that person's only job in the session is to not get knocked on their arse and to keep moving around the attackers to avoid fighting both at once.
>there are fags in this thread that suggest anything besides wing chun
>>28879928
If your surrounded by nogs with bricks, your fucked unless you have a bigger brick (A gun).
>>28880204
As an actual qualified KM practitioner, let me jump in.
Krav Maga is the MOST jewed out MA in existence. For every legit school there are 50 fakes.
If you find a KM instructor, ask to see their credentials, a registered instructor will happily and understandably produce their dip/passport.
You need to look for an instructor that is registered and qualified by: IKMF, KMG, IKMA or SAKMF.
>>28877263
The best in my opinion would be a mixture of greco-roman wrestling with some folkstyle pins thrown in here and there, and boxing. The two combined would make for a divesting self-defense.
>>28880177
Let's go into a thought process.
I love to chain together this combo as I'm grip fighting and getting into the clinch:
>Kouchi gari
>Ouchi gari
>Osoto gari
What's your "take down reverse" for that?
>>28880200
>What, you've never tried to tackle a striker and walked into a knee to the head?
No, I haven't. Judo is clinch wrestling, not shoot wrestling.
I was hit with a pretty strong knee in my second MMA fight, when I went for a kata guruma. It stopped me from doing that throw, but I managed to turn it into an ouchi and still get the throw.
>>28880208
Grappling with boxing gloves sounds hard, if not impossible. You'd basically be limited to MT-style clinching.
And that "stress situation" sounds LARPy as fuck.
>>28880005
jujutsu without specifying a certain style was the typical traditionnal grappling style of the upper class. Sure, they were a lot of different types of said jujutsu (Takenouchi-ryu for instance).
Jiu Jitsu as it's understand now is indeed a recent thing, but japanese had (obviously) grappling art waaay before judo. Samurai did used grappling, it's usually called jujutsu, though terms like yawara are correct too.
>>28880222
You're more likely to survive if you keep to your feet and stay mobile.
>>28880001
>Good martial art
>involving a sensei
Lol.
>>28880183
>Have you ever actually tried this?
>Serious question. Have you ever competed in MMA?
Done it once by accident turning away from someone trying to grab my neck. Wasn't planned, more like a nervous twitch, he was drunk. Another time a so-called cage-fighter actually got the shits with me and went for a tackle in a class i was teaching. He came to me for kicking technique, kept saying what wouldn't work, all that stupid cancer. On his way in i got him low in the guts and he was in hospital getting a tube up his cock to check out where the blood was coming from. Great time. I'll feel bad about that for-fuckin-ever.
Never competed MMA, never will.
One-step drills yeah? I know exactly the sort of martial artist you're thinking i am but nah. Just nah.
>>28879990
>/asp/
>>28877263
>I hear Krav Maga is a meme, that karate and taekwondo are useless in street fight.
You can say that about any martial art. There are good and bad instructors in everything. same with krav maga. As a whole no, it's not just a meme.
personally I've trained in boxing, kickboxing,karate, and krav maga. imo krav maga is best. because its simple and can adapt to anything. But finding a good instructor and practicing are much more important than choosing the "best" martial art.
also don't pay attention to all these super specific mall ninja recommendations like>>28880167 and
>>28880001
recap: good training is much more important choosing the best martial art.
>>28880222
Exactly my point.
If you don't have to fight, run the fuck away and get your broomstick, only a moron sticks around waiting for darkie and the dindus.
>>28880231
In modern usage, jiu jitsu refers to BJJ, jujutsu refers to any form of Japanese grappling.
TMYK
(It's mainly because "jiu jitsu" is an older translation, "jujutsu" is generally considered to be the more correct version nowadays but BJJ was already using "jiu jitsu" by that point)
>>28880238
>I totally had this guy randomly attack me in a class I was teaching bruh!
>He just tried to tackle me out of nowhere!
>Good thing I sent him to hospital with a kick which people take literally every day in sparring without any problems!
Kek kek kek
>>28880005
You might be studying another kind, but traditional jiu itsu has wrist locks, not too sure about judo though. I don't know where you got your sources from, but samurais used this to fight when they were without a weapon and thrown off their horse. The locks were made to injure the other person through the armor, seeing that you can't punch or kick someone with armor on. OP asked for self-defense martial arts, not competing martial arts. Read the question of OP first anon :/
>>28880229
>I was hit with a pretty strong knee in my second MMA fight, when I went for a kata guruma. It stopped me from doing that throw,
Uh, look that's sport. OP asked about martial arts and i posted basic principles. The guy you were up against wasn't trying to kill you and wasn't allowed to do a whole range of things that could lead to exactly that.
Stop trying to bend the thread to what you know about, sport.
Also we need to keep insights to general principles and opinions, not fight stories because they are either fake or so based on the luck of the draw they don't really point to any big truth other than, 'well shit it worked that time'.
>>28880244
No argument there. However, it's not always possible or you have to protect someone who can't run, and you may not always have a gun, or it may be non-functional.
>>28880274
>I-If only I could bite and gouge eyes I'd be able to fight, I swear!
>It-it's just because of sports rules that I'm a complete failure!
>>28880257
>>28880257
>>I totally had this guy randomly attack me in a class I was teaching bruh!
The first one was in public. You're being cancer and the reason why i don't usually bother with threads like this. I've been into this since 87 and you're burping baby memes at the thread.
>>28880284
more cancer.
>>28880293
>It's cancer to actually test your martial art against resisting opponents
>>28880229
Speak English faggot and maybe I'll tell you what my counter would be.
It's also up to the pair as to what gloves they wear; anyone looking to train grappling/ground defence picks 8 oz MMA gloves or wraps, most everyone else uses their boxing gloves for stand up fighting.
Stress training situations like that are designed to teach you keep you guard up and teach you about using angles to escape fights/multiple opponents. It applies quite well to not dying in real life.
We even start new students on "zombie" drills as a bit of fun and warmup.
Basically one student is defending and 3-4 others are trying to grab their throat. It sounds weak as fuck, but quite soon a lot of people get just about choked out on a wall and recognise how dangerous a crowd of people can be.
We move it up later on to basic strikes, then strikes and kicks and then sparring for graded practitioners.
>>28877263
From what I've learned in my experience:
>Gō Jū Karate
Mainly for striking
>Karate Wrestling Dō
Recent martial art that has been gaining pooularity in my country. It's basically mixes Karate Dō with Wrestling in grappling, holds and such
>>28880307
>pooularity
Indian pls
>>28880305
>My martial art is based on judo
>I know lots of grappling
>But I don't know what an osoto or an ouchi is
Lol
Okay, I'll put it into babby terms.
>Sweeping your right foot from the inside with my right foot
>Sweeping your left foot from the inside with my right foot
>Sweeping your right foot from the outside with my right foot
Here's a video explaining the exact same combo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeBgW6G5fvk
>>28880305
>We aren't LARPing!
>Hey, check out our "zombie drill"
>>28880295
Bottom three aint me. Last one is the one i thought was a comedy abortion.
>>28880299
Nobody has said that.
MMA dude wants to make the thread about MMA, so says all i've done is TKD. Yeah, that's cancer. He was probably born after i'd been training ten years and has never, ever lost a fight.
Man i'm out, good luck OP, you see the sort of mindless crap you have to wade through to learn anything? It's true there's 50 shit schools for every good one, and i stand by my claim, 11 weeks and you can fight, after that it's just fitness and really good basics.
In any case, fighters are born, not made. If you know deep down you're not a fighter, talk silly crap on the internet.
Wrestled all my life and Ive coasted through every fight I've ever been in. Also been a bouncer 10 years now and it's made me look like a martial wizard with everyone I've ever worked with.
Didn't always go perfect though.
>playing street football against next street over
>getting nasty
>shove 4ft nothing Puerto Rican face first into a bumper
>gets up starts windmill in his little T Rex arms
>tie up and underhook him so hard I hear his bones go full rice crispy mode
>let up on him
>spits in my face
>retard rage activate
>start beating the ricanlette into the street
>Rican brother runs up
>FEED ME MO-OW the fuck
>ricanigger stuck me with a steak knife
>barely got me, most just scraped my ribs
>see blood, go full Oscar mode
>giganigga friend from my street smashes Rico #2 with a fucking bicycle
Start with basic wrestling then at some point learn some weapon defense. The when you're really ready learn bike-fu
>>28880324
Not the same guy you're throwing shit at, but what exactly is wrong with scenario training in your mind?
>>28880347
>>gets up starts windmill in his little T Rex arms
lel
i was a bouncer for a while too, worked a college bar and saw a fight like that but both were doing it
shit was hilarious, 2 dudes standing about a foot too far from each other to land anything and leaning back while flailing wildly
other bouncers and i just kinda looked at them like wtf for a min
>>28880319
We take a lot of techniques from Judo, but we're not weaboos.
In that situation: strike, seatbelt, groin strike, push off and follow through.
>>28880324
It's for warming up/beginners SA. Plus it looks like you're being attached by the cast of the Walking Dead. Later on it looks like a group of soccer hooligans pursuing one guy (3-4 people throwing hooks).
>>28880360
The problem with the MA community is that everyone thinks their solution is THE BEST and tends to criticise things they are not involved in.
The worst are the schoolyard/internet "what would you do if I did this?!" posers.
>>28877263
When in doubt, go back to basics.
Boxing teaches you how to move and punch, and judo teaches you center of gravity and how to counter a grab.
>>28877263
>what martial art would be most useful in a real scenario as a last resort.
If there was a best then everyone would use it.
>I hear Krav Maga is a meme, that karate and taekwondo are useless in a street fight situation. I have also heard that judo and possibly BJJ and kickboxing are probably the most applicable ones.
You heard stupid things from morons.
Practice + conditioning are far more important than whatever martial art you pick.
Also, I don't think you know what meme means.
>>28877263
Ok faggots, here's something that will benefit anyone, big, small, trained or untrained.
VIOLENCE OF ACTION.
no matter what you do, do it violently. hard and fast, show them you're not a victim and fight like your life depends on it. Bite, scratch, punch, knee and scream.
Taking this one concept to heart will seperate you from 95% of people who think they know something.
>>28880361
Drunk college aged men are the worst fighters on earth. Drunk college aged women will claw your fucking eyes out and eat your skin for arresting their boyfriend after he beat the shit out of her.
Drunk women are worse than breast cancer
I practiced Wadō-ryū karate before and I wouldn't say it's completely useless but takes years or decades to be effective.
>>28880225
>Krav Maga is the MOST jewed out MA in existence. For every legit school there are 50 fakes.
I think Ninjutsu still wins. Someone showed Hatsumi-sensei the bankroll and he just went "Fuck the stupid gaijin, I'll just take all that money."
He knows what he's doing, the original shihan know what they're doing, a good number of the older students know what they're doing, but fuck if you're going get anything other than shitty karate in a black gi in 90% of the dojos.
The one where you hit the other guy
I believe you shouldn't underestimate Aikido. Now I know you may be thinking, "Why take a weakling martial art like Aikido seriously when I am learning Kendo?" I can see why you would think that, how can a peaceful martial arts like Aikido beat a powerful one like Kendo?
Well, I have a story to share with you.
Years ago, I was a Kendoka, I thought I was the toughest kid in high school, I would pick fights, and kick ass. I was full of hate, until I picked a fight with the wrong dude. He was a Japanese exchange student, I still remember his name, Noboru Takeda.
I picked on him because of his hilarious and thick Japanese accent. I told him I was going to beat him so hard, he would go back to China(Yeah, I was a little racist prick.), he never said anything back, made me wanted to kick his ass even harder.
Well, here comes the fight. I threw men and do strikes, he dodged them like I was a mere white belt. I was tiring out and he knew, I saw the smirk on his face that made me raged hard. I put all my strength in one amazing tsuki, and he grabbed past it to my wrist and threw me over. My back smacked on the hard cement ground, and I was knocked out for who knows how long.
When I woke up I was in the school infirmary, I asked the nurse who brought me here, and you guessed it, Noboru Takeda. The next day, he wasn't at school, he was back in Japan, and I never got to thank him, for saving my life and showing me the light. I soon learned that he was an Aikidoka and have been practicing Aikido ever since to show my thanks to him.
I have defeated countless opponents using Aikido, and they always ask me, Why are you so strong?
I answer, I'm not strong, you are.
Aikido uses the strength of the attacker back at them but 10 times stronger(estimate). Using Aikido and I can probably kill a charging Rhino using it's force right back at it, of course, I'm not going to try it, way to dangerous for any sane person.
I recommend practicing Aikido for every /jp/edo, as you are all physically weak, and Aikido is specialized for the weak to defend against the strong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDnYNroUmNs
A 50 year old man with cerebral palsy doing Aikido, very touching.
Arguably the most powerful martial arts in Japan.
An Aikido practitioner is practically invincible, no one of any martial arts background can ever land a punch or kick on one.
Using the power of the attacker, the Aikido practitioner uses absolutely no energy to knock them down.
A fearsome martial arts it is.
>>28879877
Too add on this, wrestling or some form of takedown/ground game is VERY important. Nothing like seeing a cocky guy throwing punches only to be slammed right on his back
