Has /k/ ever confirmed which is best?
Unless you're using FMJ there isn't enough of a difference to mention.
>>28718727
fuck no, /k/ can't even confirm if they like traps or not
>>28718755
Not in wound channels, but there is significant difference in magazine capacity, recoil, and price. All of which gives 9mm the edge.
>>28718727
45 hollowpoint defense loads are about 40% more effective than comparable 9mm loads if you are hitting center mass. That's ignoring +p loads and +p+ loads where 45 really starts to fuck shit up.
You could always load 45 super into a usp or mark 23.
>>28718777
But if you get hit with a 9mm in the center of mass you're going down. Both rounds neutralize the threat so it just come down to capacity, recoil, etc. as another anon said
>>28718727
Hear that, op? Its the 10mmfags dipping over at 1600 fps
>>28718837
Tons of FBI reports agree with you, a single 9mm to the chest is always enough to stop a human, let alone a 220 pound man on pcp. A round that is as controllable (with practice) and does more damage to center mass is just a dumb concept.
>>28718841
10mm is pretty great too but we need more research and more producers.
>>28718774
2 rounds for mag capacity isn't really significant.
>>28719046
Weight and recoil are. And honestly so is sound. a 45 is loud
>>28718727
For now? 9mm. The FBI switched back to 9mm since companies have put more research and development into them than other rounds. As a result, 9mm currently gives a better balance of capacity and terminal ballistics than .45 ACP or .40 S&W, but just for the time being. As time passes, the balance might change again, since they're always working on new things. There will never be a final answer to the debate. The situation is fluid and always shifting - just very slowly. I say give it another decade or so for another shift. Just what it will be though, I got no clue.
I have 5 pistols, pic related.
And I would say the best of the 5 is Glock 19.
9mm really is all you need.
Also revolvers are for fags.
I have 5 pistols. Pic related. Left to right SR22, Shield 9, Glock 19, FNX45, Glock 20.
And I will tell you only the Glock 19 is essential. 9mm is the best round.
Also revolvers are for fags.
>>28719354
>>28719273
Oops thought first post failed.
>>28718777
>45 hollowpoint defense loads are about 40% more effective than comparable 9mm loads if you are hitting center mass.
source.
The real world difference between the two is negligible.
Basing it off of police/FBI shooting crack heads means nothing. People have taken multiple .45 and 9mm rounds to the head and haven't gone down and lots of people have died from .380 to the gut.
The biggest difference between cartridges is found when you go on the internet to post about your post purchase rationalization.
Just make sure you're carrying a gun when you go outside. It doesn't matter what kind
>>28719271
the FBI couldn't tell a difference between the wounds of 9mm and .45 in 1987 and they can't do it today. what makes you think there's some shift of balance going on?
>>28718727
With modern hollow point ammunition there is little difference ballistically so 9mm is better.
With lead bullets or fmj 45 creates a larger hole and is therefore better.
If you want to suppress your gun, 45 is naturally subsonic, therefore better.
That's the gist of it.
>>28719457
Do you really need one?
A 9mm is only effective if the round is traveling fast. Like a +p+ round.
If you were to take a 9mm round and slow it down to .45 speeds it would suck ass.
However, if you take a .45 round and speed it up to match a 9mm +p+ round its comparable to 44 mag. Its called .460 rowland.
But it should be noted, in all honesty, that follow up shot with such a round would be difficult. Not so with 9mm. Also, it would be more expensive to shoot, and practice with.
>>28718727
>Has /k/ ever confirmed which is best?
The one you shoot best and are comfortable with.
>>28719354
>Also revolvers are for fags.
Truer words have never been spoken
Question for 10mm owners: how bad is the recoil? I notice that I come well off target with .40, more so with .45, stupidly so with a .357 magnum.
How does the 10mm lift compare?
>>28719637
Is a 10mm even different enough to be advocated. I don't speak from any sort of knowledge or experience but 10mm just sounds like a /k/ meme. Kind of like /g/'s mechanical keyboard thing
>>28719637
10mm recoil is same as 9mm recoil, but you can feel an obvious power difference it just doesn't really effect recoil though.
10mm is a valid way to have peace of mind at the 9 vs .45 debate.
9 can be 124gr at 1225
.45 can be 230gr at 900
10mm can be 180gr at 1400
It's obvious the 10mm is a completely superior round.
Think of it this way, Donald Trump is 10mm, Jeb Bush is 9mm, and Carly Fiorina is .45
It's not even a valid comparison
>>28719046
>7 rounds vs 17 rounds
>not significant
>>28719585
>A 9mm is only effective if the round is traveling fast. Like a +p+ round
source
>>28718727
/k/ can't into logic, so no
>the difference in wound channel is too small to matter!
By that logic a .45 fmj is far superior to a 9mm jhp that expands to like .55 inches, because the .45 has about double the penetration
>but muh overpenetration
Exit wounds increase lethality
>but muh energy transfer
This is usually where I stop replying.
Anyone who thinks the amount of mechanical energy work done to decelerate a projectile has a direct correlation to how damaging it is, is a fucking retard
>>28719704
THREAD ABOUT 9mm and .45
>10mm faggot doesnt know how to read
>>28718727
Niether. 357 sig is the best carry round. A truly no-comprimise round that offers great power than 45 acp, the best barrier penetration, lowest recoil, and most reliable feeding. It really is God's gift to handguns.
>>28719781
>10mm hulk smash, no need word
>>28719784
Also expensive as fuck to shoot, but who puts a price tag on their life?
>>28719585
>Do you really need one?
yes, other than your ass.
>>28718860
>10mm is pretty great too but we need more research and more producers.
Agree and I say that as a guy who's EDCC is Cold Delta Elite.
>>28719834
Expensive? Where do you live? I find rounds for $18 per 50. That's what I pay for 45. Self-defense rounds are the exam same price as 9mm, 40, 45 etc.
Gotta keep your eye out because I have seen shitty ammo like Winchester for $35-40 per 50. The most expensive good stuff I find is the 140gr S&B for $27 per 50.
>>28719472
> you're carrying a gun outside.
PEW PEW PEW with a .22lr... I hit him twice in the chest and he's still coming....Ah damn it. oh well I am dead now...
Minimum .38 special or .380 Preferably 9mm or 357 Sig. 8/10 would be .40 S&W .9/10 Would be .45 ACP.
>>28719835
>>28719739
I want you to look at .380 acp, .45 acp, 9×19, and .460 rowland on Wikipedia.
Theres your source. The .380 is a weak 9mm that travels about the same speed as .45acp. Finding ft/Sec on a +p+ 9mm round is gonna take effort, and i dont wana, but the .460 rowland info is on Wikipedia.
>>28719704
>Think of it this way, Donald Trump is 10mm, Jeb Bush is 9mm, and Carly Fiorina is .45
>>28718727
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PAHu-5-aUM
>>28719637
with the right spring set it can be very manageable. Most of the /k/ommercial loads out there are under powered so it feels like you shooting a .40 S&W. If you get into the upper pressure loads with 180/200/220's in teh 1200-1400 FPS range you need to have strong hands and great springs to handle it.
I carry a colt Delta Elite for EDCC and i can't do a full mag dump but double/triple tap on a Torso 25 yards away is pretty manageable with 180 JHP gr @ 1300fps /717 is regular. Only been shooting 10mm for a 6 months. I traded up from .40 on an S&W 4013
>>28719664
Its very much a real thing and its hear to stay.
>>28719704
>Donald Trump is 10mm
Just remember you don't have to be a richfag to buy it. But it does take a relative amount of time to master.
>>28719781
>>10mm faggot doesnt know how to read
>>28719816
>>10mm hulk smash, no need word
YES IT DOES
>>28719937
Holy shit, all the info is on Wikipedia.
Suck it nerds.
>>28719728
>comparing single stack 1911 mag to double stack mags
go away pls
>>28719937
>look at .380 acp, .45 acp, 9×19, and .460 rowland on Wikipedia
>>28720052
>Holy shit, all the info is on Wikipedia.
>Suck it nerds.
Listen Armchair operator have you personally handled any of these calibers?
>>28720083
They make double stack 1911's anyway.
Fuck that guy.
>>28720093
.45, i chose it over 9mm specifically for the .460 rowland conversion. I dont think i will ever buy a .380 though.
>>28720118
The conversion to .460 LOLand is so rare that its inconsequential. plus its purely a Hunting Round. Yay for the guy that can dump a mag full of that accurately. Also Guy next to you, enjoy your face full of gas from the necessary compensator devices...
I do like .45 ACP +P though with 185 JHP's.
And that's why anyone who isn't queer carries .357 magnum
>>28719943
beat me to it.
this video needs to be posted more often. Dr who sees the actual wounds 100's of time per year > /k/ armchair jockeys
>>28720153
I said that in the original post eveyone wanted sauce on. Follow up shots are easy with 9mm, not .460r.
The whole point of the thing is to not have to mag dump. 3 mags, double stack mags, 40 rounds total, of whats basically 44 magnum. If that doesnt make you grin then i dont know what would.
Thats not inconsequential, thats impressive.
>>28720185
I'd like to know what 18" barrel they fired a .357 sig out of
>>28719943
Good shit, thanks anon.
>>28719354
if you lived ina country where there are tow companies that makes weapons.. imbel and sh1t taurus that will not work and you'll die (like so many cops have..) you start thinking that either you buy a revolver or... (sh1t import and gun laws.. i can't have a walther or an glock that easily..)
>>28720687
Literally the worst post I've seen all day. Congratulations.
>>28721372
why?
Yes. Its the one you are shooting at the time.
>>28718727
Nope.
And it won't be settled in this thread, either.
>>28720185
10mm or 460 Rowland for people who want a decent automatic.
>>28718765
I ain't gay, but I've seen a few I would fuck
>>28720118
My biggest problem with the .460 Rowland conversion is the muzzle brake that has to be stuck on the end of an already full sized semiauto. At that point you might as well carry a mid sized .44 Magnum revolver with a four inch barrel.
>>28718727
best for what?
>>28719704
>low energy
What the fuck you faggots talking about with recoil, 45 is down right comphy to shoot compared to 9 mm
>>28719772
Yeah, ideally a round will have enough energy to travel all the way through a target after expanding and fall out of the exit hole.
>>28719834
Ford Motors put a price on tag on human life during the gremlin controversy, you are worth 500,000 dollars
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/1977/09/pinto-madness
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMC_Gremlin
>>28718755
What if we are talking fmj? Most ppl stockpile fmj. Which caliber performs well in fmj?
.380 Fag here you can't even tell me that a .380 is bad when a .380 hollow point it can be stopped by a carhart jacket
>>28721807
FMJ requires you to directly hit a vital structure in the target, eg blood vessel, spinal cord, major organ. Thus it's a trade off between increased bullet diameter (.45) and larger magazine (9mm).
End of story is which one you personally can shoot more accurately, caliber doesn't mean jack shit if you can't hit a vital biological structure with it.
>>28718727
As I understand it, any difference between the wounding capability of the two calibers is negligible. But you can carry more 9mm. So 9mm it is.
With a .45 you run into magazine capacity issues and 9mm is just a goofy little meme round. I'd use 10mm.
>>28719924
>.22lr
>an actual lethal firearm
You make me laugh
>>28721561
Except then you dont have 3 magazines with 40 rounds total. You might have some moon clips, but thats it.
I get what you mean though, im gonna shoulder holster carry mine. Have you considered a ported barrel? It works, just not as well, life is a trade.
>>28718837
It will take down any old joe, but there are many circumstances where people can tank a 9mm to the chest and just keep trucking
>>28719784
Doesn't 10mm perform about the same as a .357?
I guess .357 can fit more boolit per boolit tho.
>>28722652
Second only to shotguns.
15+1 rounds of anal cavitation
Get cuck'd 9mm fags
>>28722613
>calling 9mm a meme round
>recommends 10mm
>>28724697
I suspect most of the .22lr deaths are with a rifle though. The medical video points out that rifles are far more deadly. As a LEO I encountered more .22lr rifles than handguns by about a factor of 10. Most people don't CC a .22lr handgun for self-defense. If they have the handgun, its used for plinking or occasionally putting something down. Rifles are more often for the above plus more serious varmint control and hunting.
I don't have any proof for this. Conversely, I suspect that most 9mm deaths are from handguns and not carbines, based on frequency of the platform I encountered.
>>28725087
The .22 fatality percentage could also be counting the person using the .22 as well.
>>28718837
You're joking right? Ever heard of PCP or psychotic rage? 9mm is fucking useless against opponents with either unless you get a head shot or hit them in the heart. And we all know what great shots panicking people are, right?
>>28724759
Love the pistol, own one myself.
But why cheap out on the optic and light?
>>28718727
Shot placement is key. There is too many people looking for a magic round. That magic round does not exist, shot placement is key no matter what round you're working with. That's why I would choose a 9mm over a .45 any day of the week. Plenty of guys who have BTDT and have been in more gunfights than you can count on both hands will tell you the same thing.
>>28725212
What is fragmentation
>>28725397
What if a person is better at placing shots with 45 than 9mm?
>>28725421
then go for the 45
>>28719273
>shitty guns: the photo
>>28725434
Nothing shitty in there, but I had a good laugh at that.
>>28725421
Then a .45 is better for you. A few years ago I could shoot a Glock 21 and any 1911 like a laser, but I sucked with a Glock 19. After enough rounds down range, I got much better. It's funny how that works.
>>28725212
A larger round isn't going to stop them either, but more rounds delivered quicker and on target have a better chance of hitting the head or heart.
You fucking autist.
Enjoy your small penis complex.
>>28725494
No, you picked the most flipped, buyer's remorse guns on the market.
Glocks are trash.
Git gud.
>>28725545
Not my guns. Glocks are gtg shitlord.
>>28721561
I'm a sucker for aesthetics which I know is the last thing a gun needs, still no 1911 or conversion yet, want to get a Springfield.
>>28725535
>A larger round isn't going to stop them either
Except they do. Look it up. A more powerful round does more damage, dumbshit.
Enjoy defending the fact that you have to empty a whole magazine in order to stop a 90-lb crackhead.
>>28718727
The best is whichever one you're better with.
How hard is it to realise that?
>>28725984
>>28725397
The only correct answers to OP.
>>28719354
Just fyi (and i love my semis) and to remind you, revolvers pack better projectiles. Thats what guns are for, slinging projectiles. Semi auto cartriges are compromises. Loss of power for a gain in capacity which shouldnt matter because, ya know, you're a l337 operator.
> pic related. It's you.
>>28718727
9mm for business, 45 AmeriCa's Projectile for fun.
>>28719619
Lets play, 'spot the noguns'.
I win.
>>28726070
Copout *coughing sound*
>>28718765
Except for the moralfag tripnigger Phil, /k/ is openly proud of being the gayest blue board on the chan.
>>28725224
The Burris is the only dot that had a forward facing sensor. What's wrong with a TLR1?
>>28726284
Buddy I think /fit/ has us beat.
Nigger
>>28718727
.40 S&W is best
Anyone saying otherwise is just trolling.
>>28718727
It's gotta be .45 because it can be suppressed with standard loads.
thread/
>>28725224
Another gearfag that doesn't know what they're talking about, typical.
>>28720083
Fuck huge grip with 12-15 rds.< normal grip with 17-19.
>>28718727
> .45 acp
> original 1911 design originally designed around .38 acp
> dropped as america's issued caliber
Probably would have never caught on as a popular round if America hadn't decided to adopt it as its issued cal
>>28718777
>This load right here is 40% better in my pretend statistics
>>28722479
ALL bullets require you to hit a vital structure to physically incapacitate. Full stop.
>>28719728
How about the Glock 21? It has a capacity of 13+1 rounds.
Or the FN 45 Tactical? It holds 15+1.
If you hot load .45 ACP you get .45 Super, which is basically identical to 10mm.
Plus, .45 ACP is the only pistol cartridge with a confirmed plane kill. A Jap Zero during WW2.
.45 stronk
>>28727425
Width of Glock 19
30.00 mm
Width of Glock 21
32.50 mm
Cause 2.5 mm is such a large difference.
>>28721767
>motherjones.com
Top. Kek.
>>28718765
But we're sure about being furries, right?
>>28718727
>>28729475
Yeah and my 9mm beretta holds 18 with a flush-fit magazine. What's your point? 9mm is a smaller cartridge. Similarly-sized handguns chambered in 9mm will always have superior capacity.
>>28727207
He's implying Streamlight is shit and you should buy Surefire.
>>28729475
>+1
literally fuck off
stop grasping at straws faggot
If you put a hole in the bad guy, he's not going to want to play anymore. This whole discussion is retarded.
>>28729527
Not him, there's also a "your girlfriend thinks so!" jab here, but we'll skim over that.
Ausfag, I've only shot revolvers when it comes to handguns, and only own rifles these days (I know, I know but say it all anyway); but I'm also really into mountain biking, the grip diameters on those are differences in millimetres (and rubber compounds) and can have a dramatic effect on hand fatigue and grip. Mind you, your grip when bombing down rocks at Mach Chicken and holding a sight picture steady whilst squeezing aren't exactly comparable instances.
Tldr; maybe 2.5mm is enough to make you feel comfortable enough to shoot better with that grip.
>>28718727
20mm.
9mm vs .45 ACP debate over.
>>28718727
Depends on user and situation.
Both really.
9mm
+cheaper
+more room for more capacity
+lighter recoil
+easier to follow up shots
+potential to put more rounds into a man
+more silent
+better barrier penetration
-less stopping power
-not as silent with a suppressor compared to a
.45 ACP
-might not stop a determined attacker in time
The reason professionals use this is because you want more bullets in/through the man than just stopping him. Sure one shot using 9mm with crappy shot placement will suck against a raging chimp (interpret that as you like), but 3-10 shots in the chest and/or through some major arteries is going to have him/her bleed out like a Tom and Jerry cartoon character, if not from dying from something like a gaping chest wound or severed spinal chord.
TL;DR: more bullets in a man, he's much more likely to die
45 ACP
+better stopping power
+more devastating wounds
+more silent with suppressor (subsonic)
+-potentially equal capacity to a 9mm handgun depending on what it is
-loud as fuck
-heavier recoil
-harder to follow up
-heavier
It's bigger, it's badder, and it kicks ass. It'll stop mentioned chimp above in a shot or two. But that's the thing, it's less forgiving than a 9mm. Sure, it'll stop chimply from ripping your eyes out with a well placed head shot or chest wound, but under stress you're more prone to miss.
TL;DR: Better stopping power, less forgiving.
>>28730249
Picture presented without comment.
>>28730249
I don't know what to say, you're kinda smart and kinda stupid.
meh
>>28729759
My point is he used a single stack magazine, not a double stack.
Yes, 9mm will always have option of having superior capacity because of it's size. But that's not my point.
>>28718774
Unless I'm playing battlefield magazine size in a pistol probably won't matter
>>28725958
>https://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/
>b-but muh stopin powa
Enjoy defending the fact that you have to empty multiple magazines in order to stop a single sober attacker. .45 a shit.
>>28730336
>>28726185
>>28725958
>more power! more power!
Who the fuck cares? A bullet will take you down regardless. I don't give a shit if a 200 lb Basketball American is charging me because he won't know the difference between the size of the bullet going through his skull. He's dead both ways, so why do you ever need more power?
Threads like these are why I could not be a mod. I'd be labelled a tyrant for kicking what I perceive to be trolls when most are just ignorant.
At any rate, 9mm will reign supreme because of it's balance of pertinent attributes.
>>28730766
Because panic shooting at moving targets will rarely get you a headshot
>>28730249
>+better stopping power
>+more devastating wounds
>+more silent with suppressor (subsonic)
but that's all wrong.
>>28730914
Exactly.
>>28730466
Did you even read that Article? A marksman was hitting a target center mass multiple times with a .45 and he still wouldn't go down. How the hell do you figure a 9mm in the said-same center mass would have been better in that situation? If he had been using your limpwrist rounds, the perp probably would have leisurely walked right up to the officer and strangled him.
I also have about a $5000 ammo stockpile but the boxes are too heavy
I'm too cheap to shoot anything but .22lr lol
Next gun will be either the brand new S&W .22lr Victory pistol, or a BCM Recce AR15. Help me decide?
>>28732473
Did you miss the last bit where the cop decided to drop the .45 in favor of the 9mm glock and carrying a shit ton more ammo on his person since that incident?
Also trayvon was dropped by a single 9mm. 9mm > .45
>>28725397
Magic round:
>500 magnum 700 grain
It isnt good for sd, but if you hit its fucking witchcraft
>>28718727
Which is louder?
>>28732652
Posted in wrong thread
>>28725958
>A more powerful round does more damage
This is not a fucking video game.
30% larger wound channel is not +30% damage.
.45 won't stop a junkie zombie better than 9mm. There is barely any difference and .45 is actually worse when you hit a bone.
If you are crazy about muh stoppan powah get 10mm.
>>28732676
No. He obviously took away a different lesson than I would have. That lesson being that every shooting is different and unpredictable. Now that he is using a 9mm, he will have definite need of all that extra ammo.
>>28731441
Also shot placement.
Umm, what about .45 GAP?
>>28733010
Then why not just use a .22 target pistol for self-defense then if power doesn't matter?
I have no comment on the 10mm. It's a great round.
Look, I'm just tired of this 9mm master race shit. I don't even own a .45, I use a .357 magnum.
>>28720687
Being a poorfag hue won't change the fact that revolvers are usually poor choices for CC, m8.
>>28720687
Taurus makes great guns, but it's only a select few and I'm pretty sure they're for export to US only.
>>28724759
Is that absolute co-witness on a handgun? WTF nigga?
>>28718727
There will always be fanboys who will argue, but a lot more people use 9mm. The advantages .45 has as far as greater wounding capability are outweighed by the fact that it's easier to place lethal shots faster with 9mm. You can shoot more 9mm at something quicker than you can with .45, and it doesn't matter much if you hit someone in the heart with a 9mm or a 45.
>>28720687
>>28733088
>he will definitely need all of that extra ammo
After about 50 rounds center mass he's gonna have to switch to the head because there won't be much more mass in the center.
>>28733010
You contradict yourself in your own post with that 10mm bit.
Anyway, more powerful rounds might not do significantly more damage in terms of wound channel width to a blob of gel, but they are more likely to perform consistently regardless of shot angle or medium (clothing, bags, limbs, etc).
You can keep comparing 9mm to .45 to defend why larger calibers don't make a difference, but you're a fool if you think 9mm and something like .357 are on the same playing field.
>>28721492
I've got some bad news for you friend.
>>28726284
>what is /fit/
>>10mm Master Race continues to dominate
how will others ever compete?
>>28734687
>how will others ever compete?
.40 super
>>28718727
One's better as a general low-recoil, high-capacity service cartridge. The other is better for special forces, who need powerful cartridge that performs well with suppressed weapons.
Understand?
>>28735844
What make it perform better with suppressors than a 9?
>>28737765
it doesn't. that's just a .45-fag meme.
>>28733196
>Then why not just use a .22 target pistol for self-defense then if power doesn't matter?
because it doesn't guarantee adequate penetration. if it does penetrate deep enough the "power" doesn't matter, see trooper coates.
>>28729668
Half of /k/ is /mlp/
>>28729833
/thread
>>28719924
>muh stopping power
>I put 30,000 9mm bullets in Tyrone's chest and he still beat my ass!!
Dude if I hit you with a slingshot you'd yelp like a bitch and run the other direction.
>>28719772
>Anyone who thinks the amount of mechanical energy work done to decelerate a projectile has a direct correlation to how damaging it is, is a fucking retard
you know how i can tell you didnt take fizix while at community college?
speed doesn't kill, t=0 kills.
>>28718727
147gr 9mm is quieter to suppress than any 45
115, 124, and 147gr are all cheaper than 45
115 and 124gr JHPs expand more than 45
9mm handguns are cheaper
9mm handguns are lighter
9mm even with a lighter handgun snaps less
45 needs to be significantly wider than normal to have double stack magazines
>>28726284
>>>/fit/
>>28730371
meh. if you end up having to change magazines before the threat is neutralized, you lost anyway. capacity is a huge concern only to the cawadoody crowd.
>>28718727
>>28738394
There is little to no difference in likeliness of a first round stop between major handgun cartridges. Why would you carry a gun that weighs more than A POUND MORE for no discernable benefit?
>>28738452
.9 > .4 :^)
>>28719943
33 minutes? Anybody got a tl;dw?
>>28718727
Yeah 40mm
>>28740365
>Short & Weak
>>28720083
who the fuck carries a double stack .45?
if you are going to OWB carry a full sized gun there are better options than 9mm or .45 if you really care about "stoppin powaah"
