AR Build in Cali
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
Hey /k/, Califag here. Decided I'm going to build my own AR but I have to make it compliant with California's laws. What do I have to do to make my AR build legal? And where can I get the best featureless stock?
>inb4 Move out of CA faggot just uproot your life and leave all you know for 30rd clipazines
>>28638940
Midway usa, and it must have a bullet button and shit, no pistol grips
>>28638973
The entire point of those gimp stocks is to drop 30 rounders without a bullet button. Bullet button lets you have pistol grip, VFG, flash hider, all that jazz.
>>28638940
You're building it, right? Get a,n 80% receiver and mill it at home. Then just say the receiver is pre ban and that you only replaced parts one at a time. How are they going to prove you wrong?
>>28638978
Huh, interesting. Didn't know the abortion of a stock made 30 rounders okay. But how would I even use 30 rounders when they literally can't be acquired?
Don't really care about pistol grips, or other accessories. Kinda see them as mall ninja shit. But flash hider is a must so looks like I'll be going bullet button route.
>>28639018
>Then just say the receiver is pre ban and that you only replaced parts one at a time. How are they going to prove you wrong?
what exactly do you expect to accomplish saying this?
pre ban means nothing in ca
>>28639018
I'm not that old so I think they'd have a hard time believing a 3 year old had a pre ban AR. Definitely going to 80% route though so I can avoid the fuckfest of transfer fees.
>>28638973
Midway was the best place for a complete upper, definitely buying from them.
>>28639031
Jesus, you're hopeless. The bullet button just makes it so you can have "evil" features. If you have a featureless gun you don't need a bullet button.
>>28638940
I really wish a company would go full monster and make a thick ass stock so the bugger isn't exposed like that.
>>28639049
Okay thanks for clarifying. That actually makes this more worth it then. Glad I'm getting better info
>>28638940
Just like your pic, no pistol grip, no muzzle device (or capability of a muzzle device, so no threaded barrel), no adjustable stock, no fore grip, no bayonet lug.
Its called a featureless build because you cannot have an "assault weapon" feature on it to avoid the bullet button and 10 round limit.
However you can put as many "features" on it as you want and use a 10 round mag and a bullet button. I would suggest doing this because Law Enforcement is equally anti-fun and will usually confiscate your 30 round mags (if you have any) and confiscate your gun.
You don't need to know the laws to be a cop. And they can take your shit and force you to hire a lawyer to get it back.
>>28639163
This, if the government really wanted to be huge dicks, they could just take your guns every day of the week until they feel satisfied. They just need some anonymous tip written by themselves that you have depression. And you have to pay them every time it happens.
>>28639031
OP you need to research this shit more before you dive into a CA-legal AR. Yes, a bullet button will let you have detachable mags, pistol grip, etc. HOWEVER you cannot buy 30rd mags in CA...only 10rd mags max. If you get caught with a 30rd mag, it better be "pre ban" that you just happened to have from before the 1990s when hi-cap mags were banned. If you get caught bringing 30rd mags in to the state somehow, it is a big time felony and prepare your ass for some sodomy behind bars.
Check out Calguns forums and inform yourself before you wind up committing a major felony. LEOs WILL make an example out of your ass and nail you for even the smallest noncompliance with the law.
BTW, one of the senators is trying to ban the bullet button loophole right now, so don't wait too long if youre going to buy one.
>>28639163
http://www.wisearms.com/collections/ar-15/products/16-upper-minus-bcg-charging-handle-with-12-key-mod-free-float-rail
Okay so with the bullet button would this rail be legal? Unless the rail was legal anyways, I'm not entirely sure what CA law would think about it.
>>28639180
Oh, and forgot to mention, the guns don't even have to be illegal for them to do this.*
>>28639163
This
>>28639188
I knew the 10 round magazine thing, I also knew that theyre trying to get riid of the bullet button, hence my all of a sudden interest in the AR platform.
Am I panic buying? Yes. But I'd rather actually get it now than not be able to when I finally want it a year or two down the line.
>>28639191
Just about anything with 10 rounds and a BB will be kosher. 14.5" or longer barrel is just fine. Don't forget to get a BCG and charging handle. Get a few magpul 10round mags, they're good and inexpensive.
CA will even do pistol uppers, but don't be a goof and make an SBR.
>>28639222
You can always get a pump-action AK :-D
Ah, you gotta love this crazy fucking state.
Oldfag here that can remember back when the Stockton school shooting happened that started all of this AWB bullshit. It just took one asshole to ruin things for everybody. But what can you do when you live in a state that is 90% assholes?
Dont get me wrong, I love CA.
>>28639273
Prefer the ar. With all the after market stuff and how available 5.56 is to me just makes more sense.
Cali is loony for sure. Love it here, would never leave but i gotta have my guns. Too bad I missed out on the cheap milsurp era, and when long guns didnt have to be registered. Sometimes I hate being a youngfag.
>>28639188
the DA has the burden of proving you didn't have that magazine. you can also bit by bit convert a USGI mag from, let's say, 1999, into a PMAG because it has some parts commonality. there's also a statute of limitations of 3 years so if you were to have imported a magazine in 2012 then you'd be good to go now. you'd also have to be extremely unlucky to have the cops find your magazines to begin with. I've never been stopped by the cops going from another state to this one. Never been stopped at an agriculture checkpoint either. There's stories about if you go to a gun show in Nevada they'll follow you because you have a CA plate but that might just be stories. If you're paranoid you just take the bus to the gun show or rent a NV car and use that while going to the gun show.
>>28639036
So, if I owned an AR in 1985 and it had all of the scurry salt features, California expects me to modify it to comply with current law? Even if it was a home build?
>>28639334
yes, and as far as I know, 30 round mags aren't legal even to posses in los angeles.
>>28639334
you were supposed to have registered it as an assault weapon if you wanted to have your scary features with no restrictions. only the magazines were grandfathered in without question.
>>28639343
they are not. same with sunnyvale and san francisco
no one surrendered a single magazine to any of those locations
>>28639307
Fuck yeah get an AR. I was just kidding about that god awful perversion of an AK they came up with.
Yes, the bullet button is kind of stupid, but I actually love the thing because it allowed me to finally buy an AR when I thought I would never have a chance to own one as long as I lived in this state. The bullet button is pure law-skirting fucking genius IMHO.
I own a Colt CA6920. I decided not to do a build and just buy an awesome Colt right out of the box. The thing is a perfect tackdriver. I've seen guys trying to troubleshoot their messed-up cheap builds for hours while I just blast away with my perfect mil-spec Colt. It was worth the extra money...just my $0.02
>>28638973
That's wrong though. You can have as many "evil" features as you want if there's a bullet button on it.
>>28639345
California is proof that U.S. gun owners are cucks who will let tyranny happen to them without firing a shot. Washington, Jefferson, and Adams et al are probably rolling over in their graves.
>>28639334
if you owned a named assult weapon and didnt register it in 2000 its illegal as shit
If the rifle was owned before Jan 1, 2000 and registered with the state, it is a Registered Assault Weapon (RAW) under California law. No new registrations are permitted. RAW rifles can have features which are prohibited in unregistered rifles. This category is the only one which allows for the use of the name "AR-15" on the firearm itself, which is owned by the Colt Manufacturing Company. California has banned the AR-15 rifle specifically by name. Therefore, no other rifles are legal to possess with such a name without having first been lawfully registered as an assault weapon with the DOJ. Otherwise, one is in felony possession of an unregistered assault weapon for which no legal remedy exists if kept beyond the previously granted DOJ assault weapon registration grace period.
even now an unregistered colt ar 15 marked gun would be illegal with a bullet button
a colt not marked ar 15 would be legal cause they banned things by name
for handguns it has to be onlist to buy for rifles it must be offlist
>>28639332
Good to know. I just dont want to be fucked with by the cops. Yes there are some really cool cops out there who might not give a shit, but then there are just as many Barney Fifes trying to make a name for themselves by making you look like a home-grown terrorist.
>>28639360
Nice advice Calibro, if I wasn't confident in my ability to tinker I'd go the wholesale route, but I love putting things together so I'm building.
I also was impressed by CA' ingenuity with the bullet button. Shot my dad's ar once and fell in love, was then destroyed to find I couldn't get one, then psyched again to find I still could.
>>28638940
You got two law abiding options:
Featureless build:
No flash hider, so go muzzle brake or no device.
AND no pistol grip or anything like it (thumb hole are no go) so think traditional stock, monsterman grip, or that weird stock in op pic.
Remember, read up on calguns' flow chart or the wording of the law.
Go bullet button/maglock:
This renders the law wording on a centerfire rifle that takes detachable mags moot. In other words, whatever "features" you like, but you have to use a tool (any object, really) to detach/release your magazine.
Be aware that there's recently been bills put forth by our liberal politicians for banning of bullet button AND centerfire semi autos.
Or you can just buck the commiefornia laws and build a normal AR or whatever. If you're massively retarded about it, i suggest you don't.
>>28639381
If I design a completely unrelated firearm, say a lever action .30-30, and call it the AnonArmament©®™ AR15, will it be b& in cuckfornia?
>>28639377
Checked, also troll post for the troll gods.
>>28639416
theres an actual list
http://www.keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=view&articleid=309
and no it wouldnt be because AnonArmament isnt on it
>>28638940
https://sites.google.com/site/featurelessrifleguide/
Fellow /k/alifornia reporting.This site will tell you everything you need to know, whether you want to make a featureless rifle or a bullet button one. IMHO a bullet button rifle is probably what you're going to want to build, as what most people in this thread will tell you that having 30 round mags in CA is not the best idea. Plus not having a pistol grip is fucking gay. Walk into any gun store in CA and it would be very rare to see a featureless rifle for sale. Bullet buttons are the popular choice.
>>28638940
Just make a bullet button ar fagget.
Pic related, takes a min to install a normal button anyway.
>>28639500
Crippled bullet button ar reporting in, i actually lost it a while ago in a swimming accident.
>>28639377
well there were 3 reactions to the assault weapons ban:
1) register gun
2) don't register gun, hide it in a closet til 2004
3) fuckthepolice and do what you want
I know of all three happening
>>28639449
when you get to a certain point no one is going to ask you shit. young kid with 30 rounders? someone might raise an eyebrow (but ultimately not do anything unless they are a DOJ monkey)
30s with 30 rounders? no fucks given
why yes officer, when I was 12 back in 1999 my crazy grandpa gave me a bunch of these metal boxes for Christmas and I had no clue why.
>>28639556
there was a unintentional silver lining for those that registered if they chose to they could turn it into an sbr without atf approval or tax stamps. just like how a machine gun doesnt need any paperwork to sbr neither do registered assault weapons
>>28639571
>>28639449
>Having 30 round mags in CA
Yes.
>Showing them off to other people that you don't trust or using them in public
No.
This is my featureless build, I screw on a pistol grip when I travel to the United States.
>>28639587
well, I can count the number of times someone has given a shit when I've used them in public.
That number is zero.
>>28639556
>Only three options.
No, there is at least one more option. But that would require not being a cuck.
>>28639626
I guess run like a bitch is an option too.
>>28639616
Some guy asked me about mine last time I was at an indoor range, I informed him possession is still legal under the law and the finer points of replacing any and all parts including the entire mag with parts of any vintage with no proof you did so, and how it had DOJ approved.
He was from San Fran which explains a lot, since they are part of that club which just loves to violate state preemption.
>>28639641
He probably didn't even know it was possible. The mere thought made his mind explode.
>>28639641
Meant to say DOJ Approval, as per their official statements. They don't typically mean jack shit but I got something to back me up if I ever get questioned by cops. I keep a copy of the rifle flow chart for good measure in my range bag.
They make a little magnetic took that sticks to the bullet button, makes it function as a normal mag release.
Then if LEOs show up, you "lose" on the ground until they leave.
But don't get one. They are ill eagle and totally bad guys. I don't have any.
>>28639669
you mean the Mag Magnet? I always thought it was illegal the moment you stick it on your bullet button rifle, not the mere possession of it.
Akin to the 10+ round magazines. Legal to own (except in cuck cities), but violates CA AWB the moment it is attached to the rifle?
Unless we get taken to court and they try and prove intent.
>>28639699
Well owning a cute little magnet that just so happens to fit the magwel of your sporting rifle isn't illegal, it's putting it on and leaving it that's sorta a crime
760 reporting in
>>28639721
High desert?
>>28639733
Victorville
>>28639735
No shit, same here.
>>28639721
415 here, you can guess real fast where I'm. I am ground zero for liberals. THE ground zero.
>>28639743
What area? Shit is alright east of 395 and south of Palmdale
>>28639758
Near bear valley and the 395
>>28639747
My condolences anon
>>28639764
North or south of BV? I don't wanna pry too much though Pham
>>28639768
I'd rather not say. At least I don't live over off seventh street.
>>28639782
No kidding. That place is appalling.
You familiar with the gun store in front of harbor freight?
What do you think of them?
Prices are too goddamn high IMO
>>28639669
>>28639699
>>28639721
Legally it's a grey area whether it's a "tool" or not. To date DOJ has issued no official statement beyond "No Comment". At this point it's Caveat Emptor, but considering they are still being manufactured and sold in Cali you should be fine as long as you don't live in a really authoritarian area where the cops are looking for any reason to bust your ass.
>>28639798
Yeah, it's one of those things. The American LEOs won't stop ya, but it's those faggots who enforce the bullshit.
>>28639791
I don't even know where harbor freight is to be honest. Turners had some decent deals. That was a makarov in pristine shape for $330 when I went there about a month ago.
If I end up doing any shopping I usually just head down the hill and go to bass pro shop. I'll go shooting up at hodge road every now and then though.
>>28639616
>my experiences are the sole determinant of legality
I smoke a doobie on the way to the range while illegally transporting my guns, but you don't see me advising people to do that.
Literally you are saying that you've never been struck by lightning, therefore it's impossible for anyone to be struck by it.
>>28639798
>in a really authoritarian area where the cops are looking for any reason to bust your ass.
well, the funny thing about that is you'd think San Francisco would be no.1 about busting ass, but there is no range or store in SF anymore, so all gun related things are outside of SF.
Seriously, beautiful state and actually good memories here, but the moment any of my friends in other states give me a pipeline into work in another state, I'm outty. Been looking at Oregon, but from how things are shaping up, Oregon and Washington about to be California 2.0
>>28639664
It's not unheard of for people to be arrested by police who are ignorant of the law.
Play with fire, you might get burned.
>>28639812
Turners is pretty great tbhfam. Mikey was saying that they completely sold out of guns when the SB shooting happened.
Hodge has gotten very crowded recently, and mostly with beaners and their $500 AR's, which they then shoot in every god damn direction. I try to go out towards helendale more. Less people.
Have you ever attended the cal guns shootout? It's pretty awesome
>>28639814
Good thing I have the law behind me on owning 30 rounders being legal. I'm also the age at which no one would question it.
>/k/ will always be tsundere for you
>>28639031
Califag here. 30 rounds are illegal in CA, anywhere for any reason. 10 round max.
>>28639837
>Have you ever attended the cal guns shootout?
I haven't it sounds like a lot of fun. I might end up going to that meetup for the 30th/31st, but I haven't decided yet.
>>28639343
>>28639351
Yea SF, Sunnyvale, and LA are all violating state preemption and possibly the Firearm Owners Protection Act when it comes to transport.
In LA they didn't exempt retired cops, so the LEO lobby got the anti-gun city council to write them a cut-out, which they legally shouldn't be able to do since the 9th circuit ruled retired cops are no different than retired plumbers, they don't get special rights above mere plebeians.
The problem with LA is several areas are completely surrounded by the city, so it's technically illegal to leave with your magazines. Even then the judge denied the injunction to stop people from being fucked over, so now it's going to be dragged out for another decade just like all the rest of California's BS.
>>28639819
Yea they forced the last FFL out of business since the city was trying to mandate they give the cops video of all their purchases without a warrant and the already ultra-paranoid firearm owners of SF collectively said "WELL FUCK THAT SHIT".
I think Oregon and Washington are going down the fucking drain as far as 2A is concerned. Right now I'm looking at Nevada and Florida.
>>28639823
I try to be careful, always nicely explain if anyone ever asks, I keep copies of the relevant penal code section on my phone and in my range bag if needed. There was a whole lawsuit over cops not knowing what California legislature calls "Assault Weapons" and what just regular semi autos under the law when they arrested and jailed an Iraq combat vet up a few towns over. This is the same town where that asshole pulled out his gun just because someone was filming him from the residents driveway. They also raided some guys home without a warrant in August last year. Luckily I stay the fuck out of that place whenever possible.
>>28639872
It's a blast m8
>>28639871
You can own them, but you had to be 18 in 1994 (federal awb) otherwise it will be extremely easy for them to prove that you didn't lawfully own 30 round mags before the ban. If you were though, and living in CA at the time, they wouldn't be able to prove you didn't own 30 round mags legally before 1994.
>>28639823
well, I always give advice to people getting into guns in CA that they have to realize that the possibility of being harassed and maybe have hours wasted of their time by police is a real possibility in CA, and that's WITH you following every single law.
Personally, here, discretion is king. If you don't bungle the worst of laws (like taking your locked up unloaded gun into a preschool), discretion will do wonders.
I mean, for fucksake, this happened a few years ago in my city
http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Absorbed-device-users-oblivious-to-danger-4876709.php#photo-5290804
Not to mention you think liberals will really recognize a black rectangular hard case with a lock on it = rifle automatically? Hell, a month ago, I remember some guy on the train with 3 fucking hard cases, all locked up, and NO ONE blinked an eye at him except me, because I know the size of those cases were either holding a 30 inch camera or a fucking long gun.
>>28639873
>Florida
I don't know about Florida, man. All the weird stupid shit people do come out of Florida. I also got a few of my friends from the more "redneck" part of Florida confirming how people just go insane down there.
>>28639018
that's a felony if it isn't a registered assault weapon with the CADOJ. you're confusing their enforcement of magazines, which generally have no date code.
>>28639031
featureless (no assault weapon features) guns without pistol grips or grenade launchers or whatever are not limited to 10 round magazines. effectively you are trading the ability to drop a magazine normally with the removal or other "assault features". this is because a definition of an assault weapon in CA includes a detachable magazine.
>But how would I even use 30 rounders when they literally can't be acquired?
you would have owned them prior to Jan 1 2001.
>>28639018
>be in California
>get 80% lower and milling it
>even showing or telling anyone about it
>>28639906
I like the sun, the beach, and the humidity helps with my chronic pain a bit for whatever reason. I look at Miami and Orlando and can't imagine myself getting bored out there, and since I have connections to the travel industry and agents in the family it's easy to just on cheap cruises out of the local ports.
The reason you hear about stupid shit in Flroida more often is as soon as someone is arrested the local media gets briefed and can report on it instantly, but I'd rather deal with those crazies than the bullshit I put up with in California right now.
>>28639888
Possession is legal period. According to DOJ you can replace parts of mags with parts of any vintage, including the entire mag with no proof you did so. It's also not illegal to "find" magazines buried in the dirt along the Nevada/California border. Further more it's perfectly legal to take mags you own out of state and come back with them. Any proof of any crime is the states burden to prove.
>>28639888
you could have also been given them as a gift as a child during that period
>>28639871
you are completely wrong.
>>28639879
Like I said I haven't decided yet. I'm talking about the /k/ california meetup that was posted here a little bit ago not a calguns meetup.
>>28639893
>>28639873
It's poor advice to suggest people use 30 round magazines, especially if they are new owners. That's all i'm saying.
>>28639940
The state has deeper pockets than most folk, and they don't have to take that cash out of their lunch money.
>>28639940
>Any proof of any crime is the states burden to prove.
And that's the magic key right there.
As long as you're not doing sketch shit AND drawing attention to yourself, you're not going to get butt fucked.
And let's be fucking honest here, of the 33 million guns that's KNOWN to be in civilian hands in California, you really think all those gun owners will turn up clean if DOJ decides to dig deep into their shit?
>>28639972
of course, which is why in my advice, I also state "California isn't the best state to own guns".
>>28639972
>>28639975
I don't recommend new owners play with any grey areas either, but either way I do recommend people do what they can to be informed.
>>28639982
DOJ can't even go after felons on the APPS list. People the state knows are prevented from owning firearms under federal law, and they managed to waste a fuck ton of money on top of that.
>>28639987
California, Hawaii, Connecticut, New York, Maryland, New Jersey, and a few others are all hostile to firearm owners. Avoid at all costs or get out if you have the option. I'm stuck here for another few years.
>>28639972
That's poor advice period and you're stupid if you follow it. It's one thing if they decide to have standard cap magazine components and magazine releases laying around for a rainy day, which it's 100% legal to possess said components provided they aren't assembled.
Mag release can be installed if you decide to use a .22 upper for example, but don't go out to a range with 30 round mags. I'm sure there are people that do it, but it's in your best interest not to.
It's a retarded as fuck law, we know, but if you get tried and convicted for violating the awb you will be a felon and lose your fun rights completely even if you move out of state. Is that really worth it?
>>28638940
10 round magazines
bullet button
although they're trying to pass a bullshit law to outlaw bullet buttons too.
>>28639515
Yeah I accidentally ran him over with a dinghy, which then caught air and capsized causing me to lose all of my firearms as well.
>it was very tragic.
>>28639798
My area is pretty good, we actually have a Republican representative too.
>>28640280
Mike Thompson won my district election, he ran basically unopposed save another anti-gun dem and 2 independents. He is the poster boy (or was before Newsome) for the civilian disarmament crowd.
>>28639515
>i actually lost it a while ago in a swimming accident.
> swimming accident.
why did i picture that rifle sitting at the bottom of a backyard swimming pool...
>>28639879
I'll drop my burner if you want to go shooting some time.
[email protected]
>>28640294
>"What kind of candidates do we have to choose from?
>"Oh we've got both kinds, left, and far left."
I wish everyone else was dead.
Are pistol ar builds legal in commiefornia? I heard some shit like it's OK if it meets a certain weight requirement or it becomes an "assault pistol"?
And to you OP, bullet button tools are also something you can use to enoy your freedoms (still not legal,but meh). Just screw that bitch in when no one's looking.
>pic related, my super legal Ar that never has a detachable tool attached to it
>or you can shove a thumb tac into a glove
>or use a bit of eraser
>>28640523
The only way to legally own a AR pistol in Commieforniastan is too either build the lower yourself or buy one that's been built originally as a single-shot from an FFL.
For all intents and purposes it's going to be a 10rd fixed mag build, the reason is "magazine outside the pistol grip" automatically triggers AW laws.
In theory you could build a bullpup with a trigger extension in front of the magwell, or you could build a "featureless" AR pistol which would be legally dubious at best.
CADOJ had to legally define what is and isn't a pistol grip in a handful of court cases. If the web of skin between your thumb and index finger is below the "action of the weapon" (top of the trigger housing) while using a "pistol style grasp" it's legally a pistol grip in California.
Hammerhead and Monmsterman Grips are certified by DOJ and/or case law as non-pistol grips. You could build an AR pistol with an Exile Machine Hammerhead like I have on my rifle, use a bull barrel under 16" or without any threads/pin-welded and no handguard.
To argue that the magazine can be outside the pistol grip when there physically is no pistol grip is like trying to argue against euclidean geometry. The thing is the DOJ and California courts in general don't play fair, so they could try to assert that "rifle pistol grips" and "pistol pistol grips" are different things, even though the involve the same pieces of plastic.
DOJ won't rule on the legality of anything, nor will any of California's DAs give you any information unless you get arrested and the state wants to make a case against you.
Not that I want to see anyone arrest for unconstitutional laws, but I would really love seeing the California government argue against the laws of physics.
It sucks so hard that all this legal jargon and gray area makes going thru the labor of building a state compliant AR almost not worth it.
>They win
Fuck what about AR alternatives? Do Mini 14's and SU16CA's still get around the bullet button? What else chambered in 5.56 or .223
>>28638940
Just get an ares SCR. They look a lot better and are even NY SAFE act compliant.
>>28640809
SU16CA should be okay as long as it doesn't have a flash hider.
Some of the mini-14s are fine, but anything with a pistol grip or folding/sliding stock is verboten.
>>28640809
>>28640824
It's cheaper if I build my own ar. Also I specifically want an ar. The mini 14 is like $800 here and that's way over my budget
>>28640809
>>28641796
Most mini 14's come with flash hiders and will usually require 10 round mags.
The Ares SCR is a great alternative if you want an AR upper and their lower. Not to mention it helps fund a company regularly trolling the CADOJ.
What is your budget?
