We all know you can fire a gun in space, but would a gas operated self loader like an AR or AK cycle in a vacuum?
Wouldn't that mean revolvers and pump/lever actions are the best guns for spess?
>>28592293
>GET OFF
>THE
>NUCLEAR
>WAR HEAD
>>28592293
>We all know you can fire a gun in space, but would a gas operated self loader like an AR or AK cycle in a vacuum?
Yes. The gas is provided by the cartrige; the propellant.
They would cycle like anything else.
Yes. You may need lighter springs, but its still an explosion driving the gas rod.
>>28592293
>"I don't know how guns work"
>>28592293
of course gas operated would work in space, it isn't like all the gas and its energy just disappears just because it is in space u dunce.
>>28592293
Something interesting about firearms and such in space the lack of air cooling, what effects do you think this would have on space guns?
>>28592293
DON'T WANNA CLOSE MY EYES, DON'T WANNA FALL ASLEEP 'CAUSE I'D MISS YOU BABE, AND I DON"T WANNA MISS A THING.
>>28592341
Thermal clips.
The actual problem is that you are pointing a little engine at whatever you want to shoot, which will make you float all over the place if you have nothing to hold onto
>>28592312
sould bro I wanna talk to u
>>28592350
Things would also overheat rapidly
>>28592341
space has an average temperature of -450°F, i don't see overheated guns being an issue
>>28592341
Considering the fact that empty space can be -135 degrees, I say it's okay
>>28592366
That would be the temperature of a total lack of energy you're thinking of, "space" is not a substance which may have it's atoms excited.
>>28592366
Space has no air. No air = nothing to transfer the heat to. Space isn't 'cold' in the way your fridge is cold.
>>28592366
>>28592370
>doesn't understand how heat dissipates
>>28592366
>space has an average temperature of -450°F, i don't see overheated guns being an issue
Space may be cold, but once you've got heat, it is almost impossible to get rid of it because there is no air to absorb it. A gun will melt its barrel after only a few shots.
>>28592293
Go rent a vacuum chamber and put a bullet stop and remote firing system and find out OP
>>28592370
How can empty space even have a temperature?
>>28592366
>>28592370
Now smart guy, explain how the heat is going to dissipate aside from radiating out?
>>28592366
The only method of heat transfer for an object in space is radiation, unless its in contact with the holder but the small amount of conduction will do little to the rapidly increasing stored energy.
>>28592412
Jaden Smith pls go
>>28592293
Revolvers are probably better because you don't want spent cartriadges flying around the ship/station. Hot brass messing with oxygen bottles, computers and all the delicate equipment would ruin your day.
>>28592421
water filled tube surrounding the barrel used as a heat sink, the freezing temperature of space should keep the water from heating up too much.
>>28592447
>cant tell if serious or trolling
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamics
>>28592447
Space has no temperature.
>>28592447
>the freezing temperature of space should keep the water from heating up too much.
Do you think water instantly freezes in space or something? They've found entire clouds of liquid water in space. Literally trillions of gallons of unfrozen water, just floating around in space.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/07/110726-most-massive-water-cloud-quasar-black-hole-space-science/
>>28592433
>Hot brass messing with oxygen bottles, computers and all the delicate equipment would ruin your day.
and bullets wont?
>>28592425
There is no matter there so there is literally nothing to hold heat.
>>28592475
To be fair, the accretion disk can get retardedly hot.
>>28592341
Guns would need a similar heat-management system as a space suit or forget about firing in burst or automatic.
Look how many radiators the ISS needs for probably a single story office building worth of working space and computers. Look up how complicated they are if you think they're just big things filled with water.
>>28592498
It's not a *total* vacuum. There are a few molecules and they have a low temperature.
>>28592472
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApvngXoiung
as >>28592640 said, the largest problem in space is heat dissipation
a normal handgun might also experience cold welding
and you would NEVER be able to move yourself with any rifle or handgun, because in space you still have mass, a full magazine from a M16 would impact the most minimal of motion to you
>>28592742
>minimal of motion
that might be true enough, but unless you put the line of fire exactly in line with your center of mass, you're going to be spinning like a set of cheap rims on a ricer.
>>28592780
no you wont, it imparts about 0.15 degrees of spin a second, let me post the math
>>28592293
Pretty sure it wouldn't because any non 100% sealed piston system would have the gas quickly escape out of gas ports
A G3 might work as they have no gas system, just delayed blowback
>>28592350
Negligible unless you're firing an autocannon.
>>28592807
(bullet momentum 4 kg m/s, fired from 40 cm from the center of the axis, the angular momentum imparted to the marksman is thus 1.6 kg m2/s. Divide that by marksman's moment of inertia, and you get an angular speed of 0.05 rad/s, or less than 3 deg/s.)
i was wrong about the rate of spin, the math is from rocket rho
>>28592780
> picture
Oh god. In space, where a long gun really finally isn't cumbersome, they decide to make it so far behind over the shoulder that the backpack unit gets in the way. Now this is sci-fi for the looks only, alright.
>>28592737
and those molecules are so few and far between that they are irrelevant
>>28592447
>heat can't dissipate well from the barrel with medium to carry it away
>proceed to add water to carry away heat from barrel
ok, so how the water gonna cool off?
>>28592301
This part of the film was far funnier than it should have been, Steve Buscemi was so fucking goofy in it, and then the Dr. Strangelove reference (or homage) happened.
>>28592366
>temperature in space
>anything like Earth
If it was like that at all, the gun would have a new problem. The temperature of -450f would have a serious issue with the metal parts being that cold and then having the heat of the miniature explosions having such as massive difference in temp.
>>28592382
>>28592383
>>28592393
>>28592473
Damnit guys, having a surrounding temperature of ~2K is going to make for some serious radiative heat dissipation, particularly when you're getting upwards of 200C. Radiative cooling is driven by the temperature difference to the 4th power.
>>28592880
No they are not.
They are irrelevant in the sense of 10^-3 bar vs. 10^-9 bar or something along those lines. However, space most definitely has a temperature, and it's fucking cold. We put insulation in spaceships for a reason. Heat will dissipate, just very slowly.
Now the correct point being made here is that thermal energy has to transfer through something. Space being a near vacuum allows for very minimal heat transfer. You need to use radiator vanes for most things (like an RTG) to dissipate waste heat. And the dissipation is fucking slow compared to a heat sink with vanes somewhere with an atmosphere.
A gun barrel would heat continually based on the thermal capacity of the steel. I have no idea how many shots could be fired, but it would heart to melting before too long. The cool down period would be lengthy.
>>28593396
To clarify that comment: it wouldn't melt as you couldn't get that hot before permanently deforming the barrel as the steel softens.
>>28592872
Okay, each bullet is 3 degrees per second. That would make a magazine from a G19 give you ~45 degrees per second, which while not quite amusement park levels of speed would be enough to fuck your day up trying to actually do anything
>>28593396
Transfer the heat into a fluid, then venting that fluid when it changes phase. Your spess vehicle will need thrusters to orient anyway, use the tanks of liquid nitrogen as your heat sink. This will obviously only really work for vehicle based weaponry, but it would work.
>>28593455
*Vent not venting. I edited my post heavily and forgot to change my verb.
>>28592293
Yes, with a few assumptions.
An AR at sea level for 100kpa versus an AR in vacuum is a difference negligible with respect to the ~400,000kpa between a fired .223 cartridge and its projectile.
Radiative cooling kinda sucks ass so you will need to fire as little as possible and want to use as heavy a bull barrel as possible. This is hardly exclusive to self loading firearms, though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan–Boltzmann law
I think most people don't understand how heat loss here on Earth works, let alone in space.
Let's just say that most heat lost is in the same way sound moves, it spreads from matter to matter. Remove ambient matter, ie be in space, and you have alot less heat loss. Yeah this is very simplified, but it isn't incorrect.
>for guns to be used in the vacuum of space
One possible fix I could thing of, at least as a stop gap until a more versatile system is ergonomically possible, is to have the guns stored at a very cold temperature/store in a non-insulated compartment of the ship. Heat will take longer to build to gun destroying levels if you start with a gun at a lower temperature, and this doesn't require any fancy tech other than storing the spacegats uninsulated from the cold of space (so they can, ever so slowly radiate heat off and reach a low temperature). These guns will be just as able to fail at high temps as any gun, just should take longer to reach that point if the start temp is -200 optimal instead of optimal.
>>28592312
Watch out everyone, an obese weaboo sperg with shit taste in guns is gonna teach you about fluid dynamics
>>28592433
Think of how many conductive lead/copper particles fly out besides the brass.
>>28593396
>We put insulation in spaceships for a reason. Heat will dissipate, just very slowly.
We put insulation in spaceships to slow heat transfer. Anything exposed to solar radiation absorbs heat. At the ISS that translates to about 260 degrees C. Anything shaded from the sun loses heat, down to around -100 degrees C. Again, this is ISS local weather only. I suspect the shady side temps don't go lower because of conduction from the sunny side.
Anyhow, space ship insulation is there so people don't get fried and then frozen as they bumble around in microgravity.
Once you get into deep space, that's where heat loss becomes a problem.
Going to need some way to vent all that heat, and you might as well implement fluid to conduct heat and be ejected after reaching a certain point. It'll add a lot of mass to any weapon, but at the same time it will hopefully provide enough thermal transfer to prevent your weapon from being turned to slag.
Maybe that's why this thing looks at dumb as it does. It uses a water cooled method to vent heat, so maybe it was actually designed for astronauts.
Also, what about making a weapon that vents all of its heat into the slug fired? Would it be possible to accomplish for a railgun?
Would the action not freeze shut?
>>28592872
Switch sides every shot to balance out or shoot two guns at once that have the same properties regarding mass and energy.
>>28592393
>A gun will melt its barrel after only a few shots.
Wow no.
>>28593566
just another day on 4chan
>>28592293
why wouldn't they work? You might have to adjust the springs but I doubt that.
>>28594267
Everyone duel wields in space!
Why not return to spring powered or pneumatic or something guns for space?
Like a pneumatic nailgun, except without any (or much) atmosphere your nails fly much further, the mechanism is fairly simple (less points of failure), and really; in space if you can get some little things moving quickly, they're plenty dangerous. So like "space suit to space suit" combat? Regardless of the propulsion method; you would want MORE small fast projectiles so cutting down on storage space for chemical propellants or shell casings is an effective force multiplier.
So basically some kind of souped up space nailgun,
Yeah yeah, you'll still need a way to store the propellant; maybe hose it to a tank attached to the suit, but the thing is you would be able to swap out the magazines to your "fixed" (to the suit anyways, and just by a gas hose) weapon, and carry quite a lot of rounds (assuming they're nail sized flechettes)
>>28593314
But there is no "surrounding temperature." Space is fucking empty. There is just nothing there.
>>28592473
>Space has no temperature
American education I take it?
>>28596336
Do you see all those stars, how are you seeing them champ?
God damnit.
>tfw all this physics talk reminds me that I have relearn 2 semesters worth of physics and calculus for my Nuke interview w/ the admiral
Fuck me.
>>28596359
Literally, fuck off and die.
Like, no joking, I wish you would just die right now.
>>28592366
>>28592370
You're both fairly dense. Vacuum can't have a temperature, and it's an incredible insulator. Heat exchange over vacuum is so difficult that, yes, you would have a significant problem with overheating in any kind of prolonged situation.
Also, to answer the main question of the thread, at least part of the initial pressure in any blowback operated firearm is provided by the atmosphere. Depending on how much gas your cartridge produces and how strong your return spring is, some automatics might not completely cycle.
Also, because of thermal and angular dynamics issues, the use of rifled weapons in microgravity and vacuum would be somewhat difficult. In this case, the pump action smoothbore shotgun seems like the most reliable weapon for any kind of vacuum borne firefight.
Why are we gunfighting in vacuum though? Space combat is fucking awful enough without trying to make it an infantry battleground.
>>28596380
>space is empty
>you're retarded what are photons
>I was only pretending.jpg
>>28596359
All aboard the ruse cruise!
ITT:
>I dunno anything about X but I'm gonna spew my fucking stupid mouth off as if I do!
>Hey, uh, I happen to have a working brain and access to Google, and here's how X really is like: X
>YEAH BUT (made up bullshit) I'M RIGHT FAGGOT
I don't understand how people can be so goddamn dense with an entire internet at your fingertips.
You can learn virtually anything there is to know by typing google.com and then asking the box questions.
You literally don't even have to figure out how to word it just fucking ask your question directly to google.
Oh yeah, hold on, I forgot.
The internet is jam packed full of these same fucking brain-dead slugs that spew opinions and bullshit as if they're fact, and google invariably leads to 7-8 different answers for everything, even if there's only one answer.
>google.com What is 2+2
>4
>4
>Well, see, here's the thing about 2+2...
>4
>91
>4
>kittens!
>DMCA notice 2+2=4 has been removed based on copyright claims by Jesus
There are no fucking particles in space to have a temperature, even 0K which is an absolute lack of temperature. There is nothing to move and bump and vibrate.
If you have a table with nothing on top of it, and someone points to the table and says "How full is that glass of water" do you really say "It's empty"?
BRB shooting myself in the soul.
>>28596433
>photons
Totally relevant to anything ever oh wait I'm not a goddamn solar panel k.
>OMG HE SAID EMPTY INSTEAD OF SPECIFYING WHAT IS AND ISNT THERE
Bee Tee Dubs, homie, you already have the brain cancer. And like 7 types of autism.
Bee Tee Dubs Too: Electric Boogaloo: Space IS empty (effectively) of anything that can conduct temperature, which is the fucking physical vibration of particles.
>>28592366
ITT:
>I have no idea how a Thermos works
baka desu senpai
If my coffee is still hot at lunch break you can bet your ass that barrel is gonna get hot and stay hot.
>>28592293
>space
>not a vacuum
Fuck off all of you.
There is little to no convective cooling in space, but radiative cooling still works plenty fine. Overall it's not quite as fast as in atmosphere, but it would be enough.
>>28597141
Lol no.
Hence why space stations have to have huge radiator assemblies.
>>28592293
It's a vacuum in space so it'll probably work even better, no air behind the piston to drive out/move out of the way.
>>28597170
space stations generate a lot more heat than any gun would
>>28597141
you know those vacuum insulated coffee cups?
the ones that keep coffee hot for like 12 hours instead of 30 minutes?
thats the difference between convective and strictly radiation in vacuum
>>28597201
What if we made a space station that was a gun?
>>28597241
FUND IT
If semi autos can cycle in space why do arctic troops like the canadian rangers use bolt guns? I thought it was for reliability
>>28597241
>>28597392
Because ARs don't like the cold, and the Canadian Rangers have no money. So they use old Lee-Enfields.
>>28597241
>>28597397
slavic ork boyz already did
>>28592878
Even worse, think about how far each round has to travel. It looks like it loads from where his front hand is, and the cartridge, would travel back to where his shoulder is (at least, if they actually wanted to use that space), and be fired from that point. Then, if looking at the shooter from above, on the way to grab a new round the spent cartridge would be ejected to the somewhere between 0 radians and (π/2) radians.
>>28597467
Isn't space just as cold. There isn't a significant amount of material to conduct heat around the operator or firearm and thus there should be a substandard expansion of gas. Granted this is making me wonder where would the heat dissipate too as there is nothing to transfer energy to.
So on the one hand, if guns don't work in the arctic because they are cold, well space is colder. On the other hand where would the heat energy be released to because in the arctic you have the air to be used as medium for your heat transfer which space would lack in any substantial number.
>>28596342
Well technically anon here is right, temperature is simply a measurement of the kinetic energy of a substance. With that in mind you can't really measure the temperature of nothing.
>>28597531
ARs don't have trouble because the gas doesn't expand enough- any effect the environment has on the expansion of the propellant gases is negligible. It's because their lubricants thicken.
In space, more expensive lubes like graphite could be used. Or they could just use a gun that could run dry, like an AK pattern.
>>28597467
>Because ARs don't like the cold
Bullshit. Just use LSA instead of CLP and you're good to go.
>>28597531
The bigger problem in space is what's called cold welding. In a vacuum two objects of the same metal start fusing together. It's why NASA tools have plastic coatings and tips.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx3djo_SsJ0
>>28593552
But then you have the issue of the heat differences cracking your brass casings (I'm not talking about reloading, I'm talking about the chamber tempcausing the autoloaded brass to crack, though reloading in space would currently be impossible) and your other heat-sensitive parts (steel etc...)
You could solve the brass issue with caseless ao but you'd quickly get cook-offs.
>>28596303
Good idea anon. Will design.
>>28596359
Stars aren't space.
>>28597715
Very interesting, I'll have to show my students this
>>28597201
Yeah but relative to mass a gun will produce more.
>>28597715
Not a real problem, you can just use different kinds of metal for parts that are in contact with one another.
>>28597954
Just a strange logistics issue. You'd have to manufacture ammo and firearms that'd create minimal pressures on your most sensitive pressure-sensitive part.
>>28598058
Actually, since modern smokeless propellant contains oxygen, would it be enough to create a layer that prevents cold fusion in the first place?
liquid nitrogen cooled DShKs..
The only way to be sure.
>>28592364
>space combat would bring about a return of water cooled barrels like the ones /v/ are sperging out over in FO4
Crossbows.
Seriously.
Crossbows.
The Sino-American war on the moon surface will be fought with high-tech repeating crossbows and melee weapons by exoskeleton-clad space marines.
>>28598192
why not recoilless airburst flak grenade launchers? Maybe have them thrust vector towards targets or something.
>>28598227
You want to destroy critical space infrastructure so bad?
Ok then.
I'd rather capture it.
>>28598192
>>28598227
imagine a gyrojet rifle, only instead of rockets it fires what amounts to CO2 cartridges with a bangstick on it
>>28598192
And deadly airguns
>>28598192
USMC Moonbase Alpha?
Could you guys imagine how awesome bullets work in space? The vacuum would make the gasses expand completely unhindered, increasing velocity. They would maintain this speed indefinitely due to zero air resistance, and thanks to no wind or gravity, there would be no curve in the path.
The real question is what sights would have to be made for space combat.
>>28593314
Jesus Christ you're either a troll or have no idea how physics works.
There has to be SOMETHING THERE for the heat to dissipate into. A material.
Space isn't anything, it's just emptiness. Space doesn't HAVE a temperature in the same way that a box that doesn't exist can't have marbles in it. It's literally exactly like dividing by zero. You can't put energy into nothing.
To radiate heat into space, you'd have to radiate MATTER with it to carry it.
>>28592312
What could a banana munching nigger ape know about space for crying out loud
>>28592293
What film?
>>28598387
Is you serious son
>>28592366
But the absolute lack of anything to conduct that thermal energy away from the weapon system and allow for some entropy to take place would pose a problem bud
>>28598339
AEIOU
>>28598383
>To radiate heat into space, you'd have to radiate MATTER with it to carry it.
Nuh-uh!
>What is black body radiation
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-body_radiation
Glawk combined with space telescope.
>>28598106
Idk, I'd assume you'd want a failsafe though.
>>28598377
>Be anti-ship turret gunner on moonbase
>Shooting at enemy ayy ship
>One round misses
>Keeps going
>Whoops
>Be peaceful critter on some random planet
>Look up to the dusk sky and see shooting star
>Stare in awe at this majestic omen
>It's getting closer
>Oh fuck it's coming right for me
>Too late
>Get obliterated by 120mm cannon round
>>28598494
>Stationed on US space platform
>Fuck year 'merica
>Notice space elevator being built
>Coming from mainland China
>Fuck off we though of that shit first!
>Take potshots at chink space engineers all day and lol with the boys at mission control
>May have started WWIII
>Don't care, in space
>>28598476
>using an idealized model used to approximate radiation as a real world example
The closest you'd get to being correct are black holes and even then you are wrong
>>28598377
Actually none of what you said is true. Gravity from one infinitely small piece of matter on one edge of the universe affects the whole universe... Very slightly. And space isn't QUITE a vacuum. But its close.
Shotguns are best for spess warfare
>more enclosed powder than rifles
>shot spreads out and makes multiple holes in an enemy's suit
>shot that misses just spreads infinitely into space forever and ever
>until it lands in paradise
>Omicron Pegasi 47, the clay pigeon planet
>>28598494
Damn, I look forward to Three Body Problem, the movie.
Near future space warfare? Fuck yes.
>>28598192
>>28598513
>start interspace war 1
>>28592293
Selfloaders should work just fine. *That is assuming the ammo was manufactured in a vacuum. Cartridges loaded under standard atmospheric pressure will pop once subjected to pressure difference of vacuum.
>>28592293
Springs still work in space bruh.
>>28598618
God I want that movie pls tell me that's actually happening.
>>28598586
>The closest you'd get to being correct are black holes and even then you are wrong
Imagine a white hot piece of steel floating in space. It is radiating light. It is not radiating mass (barring obscure relativistic arguments vis-a-vis the energy of the emitted light having mass).
If you are correct it would continuously radiate light, in violation of the principle of conservation of energy.
If I am correct (I am), then the steel would emit light at increasing wavelengths as it's temperature asymptotically approached ambient.
Which seems more plausible? If vacuum-sealed white-hot steel is a viable infinite energy source, why aren't we using it?
>>28598654
What do you have to say about all the other issues?
Also I wonder how hard it would be to get NASA to reload some ammo in space and bring it back to us to see what happens
>>28598677
http://www.npr.org/2014/11/13/363123510/three-body-problem-asks-a-classic-sci-fi-question-in-chinese
It's a solid sci-fi novel which has won the nebula award, the first of its kind for a chinese author.
>>28598654
Sounds like something we could reasonably test on earth using a vacuum pump.
>>28598192
>fire a cross bow in space
>the arrow flies off
>159 billion years later it kills an alien
>>28598695
Photons are proven to exist.
holy shit /k you're all fucking retarded. thanks for clearing up there are very few if any scientists or engineers on this board.
>>28598731
Then they make a tv show about it and other oddities
>>28598754
I say we put this guy on a ship and launch him into the sun
>>28598731
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p77XnhzJz7g
>shooting city busters from the hip like a cowboy
God damn I want that future
>>28598772
But Anon the sun is impossible
Once it comes into contact with the absolute zero of space it would immediately cool down and go out
>>28598877
No, you idiot. The part of Earth's atmosphere where the sun orbits has really fucking air.
The same reason the base of a candle's flame is blue is the same reason the sky in the day is blue- they're both at like 500 degrees Fahrenheit
>>28598752
Are photons matter?
>>28598323
That's really dumb, like the idea for space is legit, but the silent death shit for in atmosphere makes my brain hurt
>>28598705
I'm not claiming to be an expert on the subject, just stating my opinion. Unrelated issues such as recoil force on the shooter in zero gravity notwithstanding, I think the biggest concerns would be heat dissipation and cold welding which were both addressed already in this thread.
>>28598708
Definitely. Either that, or load them at 2x standard pressure and see what happens. Some unsealed rounds like 22lr may be alright if depressurized gradually.
>>28598731
If you fire it in orbit it may eventually orbit around the earth and kill yourself with it. The arrow wouldn't have sufficient escape velocity.
>>28598968
>The arrow wouldn't have sufficient escape velocity.
Depends on the orbit you send the arrow on. It could slingshot around the Earth picking up speed from the gravity well and skip off the upper atmosphere.
>>28598618
That the concept art of the scene where the terrorist/cult SWAT-team conducts a boarding action against the UN space elevator?
>>28598948
>what is wave-particle duality
Yes, they're quanta
>>28593431
so we would obviously have to have firefights in spess with recoiless rifles.
>>28599021
...what?
>>28598695
The amount of downs you are exhibiting has breached autism.
Once you use that source for energy to power something, you are taking energy, and thus heat, away from that system, thereby lowering it's temperature and shortening the amount of time it can be used as an energy source.
Also why is everyone going about this the chemical method?
Why not coilgun? Seriously, magazine fed, coil gun.
Or a rail gun
Or fuck why not laser?
>>28598771
>underrated post
It took me a second to get where you were going with the picture and post there...
But when I did, I kek'ed pretty good.
>>28598908
...
This is why Plasma is needed for space guns, Plasma is much cooler than a bullet firing and wont overheat the gun
>>28599143
Spaceships can use the gravity of a planet, and the right trajectory, to gain velocity.
It's one of the ideas they have in mind for sending people to mars. And it's also been done in the past regarding unmanned probes and such.
>>28598953
No, seal them slightly tighter, if not then you have no oxygen to drive the reaction that causes the propellant ignition and thus the bullet going out of le barrel.
>>28598968
Aside from the possibility of it still leaving earth orbit due to possible conditions and trajectories, I can only imagine some asshat shooting a crossbow bolt and having it come impale him and a space station causing it to depressurize two hours later because he sent it on a slingshot trajectory around earth and it gained 23,000m/s of velocity.
>>28599143
It really depends on your orbit.
The principle behind is that so long as your velocity is pointed in a direction that takes you closer to the Earth, you are accelerating due to gravity without the counter-acceleration offered by the shape of your orbit. Depending on your initial conditions: initial velocity, elevation, shape of orbit, etc., shooting a ballistic projectile could cause it to accelerate enough that it will obtain escape velocity.
>>28599107
>Yes, they're quanta
Do photon's have mass?
>>28599300
Yes mass equal to their energy. Hence how gravity is able to effect light
>>28599300
>Do photon's have mass?
I didn't even know they were religious.
WAKKA WAKKA!
>>28599144
So you're saying nothing can cool down in a vacuum?
>>28599332
Fuck you Carlos Bear
>>28599332
>>28598601
The gravity is negligible as long as you aren't less than a few thousand miles from a planet, and the pressure is so extremely low it is basically a vacuum.
Either way, my point is mostly true.
>>28599345
Not by radiating heat.
Something has to carry the heat away.
>>28599345
It can, extremely slowly because it only emits thermal energy as radiation (infrared energy) it takes a fuck ton of time and the more surface area means the faster it occurs
>>28599367
>Not by radiating heat.
You mean by conducting. Thermal kinetic energy can be radiated away through emitting photons.
>>28592318
>AR
>the gas "rod"
Please go away
>>28599397
Hey maybe he meant a converted AR or an HK416/7
>>28592341
Heat sinks that are detachable like magazines.
>>28599311
>Yes mass equal to their energy. Hence how gravity is able to effect light
Okay, so heated objects release light which has mass (allegedly). Is there a non-absolute zero temperature at which objects stop emitting light?
>>28598575
well, thats a Chinese astronaut so
>>28599479
It's not alleged, go look it up. And regardless, no material you can make a gun out of emits light in enough quantities naturally to be an effective cooling method for a weapon, which is what this argument's about
>>28599442
Firing 30 rounds semi auto in space any more than firing 30 rounds full auto on Earth would. It's not that big a deal, heat sinks would probably only show up on SAWs and heavier MGs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwSJiAwoMpY
>>28599549
>It's not alleged, go look it up. And regardless, no material you can make a gun out of emits light in enough quantities naturally to be an effective cooling method for a weapon, which is what this argument's about
This argument is about correcting your ignorance. 1min BRB doing math.
Also, answer my fucking question! Is there a temperature at which objects stop emitting light (other than absolute zero, which is not reachable).
>>28596371
is the Admiral a nuke too?
No?
Then just raddle off big words.
>>28599641
Absolute zero is not proven to be unobtainable cuck, also to answer your other question it's not light it's radiation, if it's light you're after then it depends on what that objects radiative temperatures are for visible spectrum light.
Otherwise it emits specific radiation depending also on temperature for the material and at some point almost all known materials will stop emitting radiation save for a few highly radioactive ones
>>28599684
Except the really important shit because he's likely to briefly familiarize with the most important things
>>28599179
You're such a retard
>>28599641
Waiting for your free energy proof Dr. Troll
>>28599788
See
>>28599144
Fucktard
>>28599788
>>28599687
I'm the one arguing against free energy and for the concept of radiative cooling. You espoused the notion that objects cannot radiatively cool.
>>28598383
You then claimed that black body radiation wasn't a real thing.
>>28598586
You then claimed that, basically, since photon's carry energy they have mass.
>>28599311
This is a debatable matter of interpretation. Regardless, it runs into the issue that I said " (barring obscure relativistic arguments vis-a-vis the energy of the emitted light having mass)" in my previous post.
>>28598695
TL;DR - You're changing your argument because your argument is absurd.
>>28599862
>firing a weapon means all the energy generated goes into the projectile
>which is why bullets are 3x hotter than the sun in flight and why no gun cooling systems have ever been needed to be devised
Hemorrhoy-Rogers_The-Retarded-Song. Mp3
>>28598771
kek/10
>>28598908
>The same reason the base of a candle's flame is blue is the same reason the sky in the day is blue- they're both at like 500 degrees Fahrenheit
No, come on? You are fucking trolling right? Please /k/ tell me he is trolling.
>>28598383
>>28599144
That's conduction, or if you're referring to something slightly different, convection.
Heat is radiated in space. That same principle means any raw, unadulterated solar radiation is going to slam into that very black and very absorbent gun and raise it's temperature well past the point where the ammo cooks off.
This is fucking basic shit, I learned this in the 4th grade. Unless you guys are from like fucking Madagascar or some shit you should know this too: http://physics.info/radiation/
>>28599994
why do you think space ships have to have heat shields on them retard? because they pass through the Hot Layer
>>28600086
They have heat shields to re-enter the atmosphere you stupid faggot
>>28592293
>implying a 1atm pressure difference on the outside of the gun will matter given the pressures that operate the gun.
Besides, the gas has already been tapped from the barrel by the time the bullet leaves the muzzle.
>>28600106
Exactly, and the part of the atmosphere the sun is in is hot as fuck
QED
>>28600135
>Exactly, and the part of the atmosphere the sun is in is hot as fuck
>QED
Keked heartily.
>>28596342
He's right you dumbfuck. 0 kelvin
>>28596342
VACUUM has no temperature, retard
And space is primarily vacuum
The cooling generated by the occasional low energy hydrogen atom colliding with the weapon is effectively zero in comparison to, for example, air cooling.
>>28599955
I didn't say black body radiation "wasn't a thing", I said using it to claim deep vacuum would be acceptable to cool a real world weapon that is generating heat was a stupid thing to do.
So since you seem to be operating on 'somewhat bright sixth grader that read a book on physics that was too complex for him but picked up a handful of terms to use as buzzwords' level. LET ME PUT IT IN SHORT WORDS SO YOU CAN GET IT.
" What stuff is the heat from the gun going into? Heat can't go away into the vacuum. There is no such thing as a 'heat particle'. So where is the energy going? "
>>28594160
There would still be massive heat converted from the kinetic energy of the railgun slug due to friction between the projectile and the rails themselves, which also gains a lot of heat from electron movement during the shot
And without a medium, railguns will still generate a fuckton of heat due to the power used to propel a ferromagnetic slug at great velocity, unless it's sufficiently small enough to kill a man sized target a la F = ma. Even so, we might as well go the thermal clip method of disposable heat sinks when we go into space warfare since passive cooling is unfeasible.
Ship mounted electromagnetic weapons or directed energy weapons can rely on coolant vents instead, pumping them with liquid nitrogen and expelling the high pressured hot gas to cool the weapon. As spacecraft would have larger volumes, coolant tanks are more feasible for larger weapons compared to small arms
>>28599442
>Heat sinks that are detachable like magazines.
Brass cases are just that.
>>28596342
urr fucking dumb
>>28599397
first, op says ar OR AK
ak's have gas pistons (or rods if you will)
and a DI ar-15 still functions the exact same way as a piston firearm, because the BCG acts as the piston directly, instead of relying on a cumbersome ak style piston rod
and as already been say, yes, a ar/ak will function fine in space, so long as their are no tuning issues.
>>28600919
Brass can't absorb all the heat because thermodynamics states that heat would travel to cooler areas, say, the other metal parts of a gun like the barrel. Thus your barrel will get hot inevitably and warp itself/other parts of the gun with excessive use, being unable to cool off fast enough via radiation
Spessguns will need to use either detachable barrels or a heat sink with extremely high melting point in order to sustain heavy fire in a vacuum environment without fucking itself
>>28593153
it's russian thinking, when they run out of bullets, they now have a steam powered grenade.
sadly, many /k/osmonauts will incorrectly use the grenade while thinking they are using the firearm.
how tactical would a slingshot be in space.
just do away with the whole heat issue.
>>28596359
Not from the moon I'll goddam bet
>>28600812
Yes. Faggot.
>>28599684
holy shit are you retarded?
every nuke interview is done by a nuke admiral
>>28592366
>talks about how things are in space
>doesn't understand convection requires air
>>28598383
>nothing loses heat in space
are you serious nigga
I did some ghetto math with http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/stefan.html#c2 and http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/cootime.html#c1 and what I've found is that an 18" AR barrel would cool at a rate of about 500 watts at "red hot" temperature, 500 degrees Celsius. Using the other calculator, a steel ball with the same volume of said barrel (blank, couldn't be assed to subtract the space of the bore) would take about 3 hours to cool to around 0 degrees Celsius from 500 degrees. While that's certainly much slower than with air cooling, it's by no means not cooling.
The reasoning for this is that while there is no air to conduct heat away from the object in space, the air would also act as an insulator for radiation of heat off the gun, so while we lose out on one form of cooling, we gain a shittier one.
>>28602096
You're not fully taking into account what I said here: >>28600052
Our atmosphere's protecting us from a lot of shit, one of those things is the blisteringly hot solar radiation that does all sorts of not-nice things. While space is in general real fucking cold, objects in it aren't necessarily cold either.
Oh and this isn't even addressing the problems with metal being metal in a vacuum. This hypothetical AR in space may have enough gas pressure to cycle, but it will eat itself up every time that bolt moves in the receiver.
For those of you who don't know: metal behaves differently in a vacuum. Nothing is there to "tell" the atoms in one piece of steel to not bond with another piece of steel. Normally there's a thin, atom-thick cushion of air or grease or just bullshit, but in a vacuum it's "oh hey we're all the same! let's start sharing electrons boys!" This makes metal in joints slough off and gum up the whole thing. So there will be all sorts of problems with the lugs shearing off bits and pieces as they lock, brass cases sticking to each other in the magazine, just any bare metal touching bare metal is going to have a problem if they're willing to bond at the atomic level.
>>28602453
Yeah cold-welding is an interesting phenomena, but it's easily remedied.
Use of dissimilar materials will prevent it, like for example a titanium bolt locking with steel barrel. Coatings and other surface treatments will also prevent it, but not on parts that have to withstand a lot of shock.
>>28601253
I mean...
not a bad idea. Infinite trajectories.
>>28602539
Yeah, and even then there's still going to be a lot of heat in this weapon that's going to keep building and building.
Though that would be a fine reason to paint it white and make it a proper spess boomstick.
>>28600568
>LET ME PUT IT IN SHORT WORDS SO YOU CAN GET IT.
>" What stuff is the heat from the gun going into? Heat can't go away into the vacuum. There is no such thing as a 'heat particle'. So where is the energy going? "
You insufferable cockmongling fucktard... heat is energy. Photons can carry energy. Hot objects emit light, ergo emitting energy. light can travel through a vacuum. Ergo energy can travel through a vacuum. Ergo an object can cool in a vacuum by radiating light.
QED.
Go back to school you tard.
>>28599205
Gunpowder doesn't need atmosphere oxygen to ignite or burn. Same with primer.
>>28592341
I'd be more worried with the brittleness of the materials when exposed to -273 C
>>28592324
THIS.
>>28602539
soooooo, having my bolt coated in an amazing coating would help??
CRYPTIC CONFIRMED FOR SPACE BOLT
>>28592293
>would a gas operated self loader like an AR or AK cycle in a vacuum?
Why wouldn't they?
>>28598618
Wh ywait for the movie when you can play the game (game is dead though :( )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuBYJadASGc
>>28592382
Actually in lower Earth orbit there are atoms in the near vacuum of space. When you get to the distance of the Moon, there are about 3-4 particles per cm^3 emitted by the solar wind that's all around us.
Only in deep space you might find less particles since there is a wind from the solar bowshock of nearby stars and the nebulae nearby within a few 100 light years.
So the only true vacuum of space would be in like a dead space distance between galaxies.
Even then there might be relativistic particles that finally slowed down after millions of years emitted from nearby galaxies from supernovae.
So space isn't really empty anywhere except for unreachable realms requiring Star Trek tech.
Even if you got there with such a craft, the heat from your imppulse engines would be spewing hot fusion particles and screw up your readings. The hull material would evaporate ever so slowly and leave a few atoms here and there.
>>28604486
In LEO they have to do correction burns from the drag of a very, very thin atmosphere. That is why they put fuel tanks and small rockets on them to keep them in orbit.
>>28592293
well the gun would work fine the first shot, given it was made of the right materials. you'd have a problem with metals fusing or "cold welding", and lubes boiling off, and heat dissipation....but yeah bullets work in space.
>>28592366
>how do I physics?
>>28592817
Are you serious?
