Forward Assists....Are they needed for your go-to gun?
My personal opinion is that you will likely never need it and it should be your last option. However, there is the possibility that your gun may get fouled enough to require it or you have to run some shit ammo, in which case it might save your life. It's a must.
>>28572797
I agree.
>>28572797
I prefer to cycle the action manually.
The forward assist can induce worse problems.
im not sure where all this foward assist hate comes from on /k/. ive used it many a time with a very dirty rifle when it wouldnt want to fully go into battery. it works
>>28572823
....and if that doesn't work?
....if it's not a mag problem?
>>28572838
Yeah this
>>28572797
i can't imagine any scenario where it's more convenient/faster to use forward assist than racking the slide since forward assist kinda requires you taking your right hand away from the firing position
>>28572867
Dirty chamber, nasty as fuck ammo
>>28572881
in which case your next round is likely to have the same problem so you'd probably be better off with a sidearm or something
>>28572838
like most hate here it comes from poorfags, specifically those who bought a 600 dollar AR-15 that doesn't have a forward assist (or staked gas keys for that matter)
>>28572797
that is a good insight
>>28572892
>transition to side arm
Of course, if you are within range for a sidearm and have one and they are not behind cover. If any of those cases are not true, what do you do? What if the rifle is all you got and you've tried all of the other quick remedies?
>>28572797
It's something that you'll probably never use, but it's required for the complete functional operation of the gun. There is no other way in the field to force an AR's bolt forward if it jams out of battery.
>>28572846
Dump the rifle and switch to sidearm while letting my buddies take over in the fight
>>28572797
The way I see it is this.
You will never have to rely on a forward assist. If your gun is SO fucking dirty or your ammo is SO fucking crappy that you have to use it once, you will have to use it every single time. At which point it's time to fall back, swap to your sidearm/another weapon, and GTFO.
That being said, any rifle that meets the dozen other requirements to be a rifle that you should bet your life on will already have it, and the forward assist and its housing weigh less than 2 ounces. There's no real reason to NOT have one.
I am a combat vet. Have multiple depolyments under me. I want one, even though I have never had to use one and most likely never will.
>>28572797
If it gets dunked in mud or something and has bolt velocity problems the FA can be useful
It's not really something that one would need on a range or HD weapon but it doesn't really hurt beyond a little weight
>>28572945
>What if the rifle is all you got and you've tried all of the other quick remedies?
and you have no squad with you...jesus.
>tfw can't find a Gucci upper without a FA
I fucking hate them. They get in the way, and ruin the lines of the gun. Sure, if I got my rifles for combat I would love one... but my rifles are used for competition, bench shooting, and range fun.
>>28572945
>Having a sidearm
It's nice to be a civilian. I'd say it's nice to be an officer, but I'm pretty sure that sucks.
>>28572867
if we're talking ARs you wouldn't have to remove the rifle from the shoulder to use the forward assist but would most likely have to for the charging handle. I'd think the forward assist would be more convenient.
>>28572903
Not me.
I just like guns without forward assists because I never use them. In years of 3Gun, 2Gun, and NRA High-Power Rifle I've NEVER used one. It's just unneeded weight for 95% of rifles, and I just wish more companies produced uppers without them or brass deflectors.
Ounces to pounds. Weight really does matter when you're running around competition stages.
Does no one do press checks?
>>28573011
That's fair enough and i can dig your reasoning. There's just no reason to hate on them though.
Personally i don't ever think about mine and it doesn't bother me.
>>28573044
Nope
>>28573011
I run a pretty fucking heavy rifle for 3-gun and I can't say it's ever bothered me.
I get out of breath and my knees start hurting because I'm an old, fat, broke-dick soldier, but my arms/chest/shoulders have never gotten fatigued. Heavy guns are easier to shoot accurately rapidly.
That being said, my 3-gun rifle is a slickside billet (S&W performance center), but it wasn't a conscious choice to ditch a deflector or forward assist.
>>28573011
>thinks what works for a competition gun is a good idea for a fighting rifle
that being said you're not wrong that the FA is more or less useless with the exception of press checks
>literally does nothing to harm the gun
>have already had to use mine several times for ammo that's bare steel case
>people who bought a M&P-15 still insist that it's useless and better to not have
>>28573289
I know it's not a good idea to not have a FA on a fighting rifle, but of the millions or AR-15s sold, how many of those are used specifically in fighting or harsh-weather conditions?
>>28573334
Use the scallop in the bolt carrier you fucking retard.
>tripfags
>knowing anything about guns
![WP_20160116_003[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/5mvxjuy.jpg "WP_20160116_003[1].jpg")
>>28573453
Hope you have gloves and that the FTF happens after the first half of the BCG has cleared. :^
>>28573011
>It's never happened to me, so it isn't needed or doesn't exist.
Why the fuck do people keep doing this? This same exact mindset is what most gun grabbers use when they ask why we need guns in society.
>>28572797
The question isn't why you shouldn't have one. It's more of a "why the fuck doesn't your gun have one"?
>>28573516
What the fuck ever, the bolt carrier doesn't get that hot and when would a jam happen that would set it that far back? Come back when your gun isn't pitted to shit and has a forward assist.
>>28573545
I just listed out reasons why I don't want or need a forward assist.
I didn't say anything about banning it you fuck.
>>28573603
>the bolt carrier doesn't get that hot
>when would a jam happen that would set it that far back
Do you even own an AR?
>Come back when your gun isn't pitted to shit and has a forward assist.
It's almost like it's an A1 build using a surplus upper or something.
This is why I stick to /arg/ when it comes to ARs.
>>28573603
The rare double feed jam that wedges a live round between the gas key and the gas tube. Nightmare mode to repair.
>>28573657
Good, go back.
>>28573005
>not carrying a sidearm anyways
>letting some bitch Lt. dictate the manner in which you defend your own life
>dying because some pimple-faced officer says only HE can carry a pistol
Nigga fuk that I take my glawk fohty on deployment errytime. Use it to kill hadjis more than my M16.
>>28573757
I feel like staying here and laughing at anon, actually.
In addition the the dust cover, a cleaning doctrine, and ammunition that wasn't shit; the forward assist was one of the developments that un-fucked the M16 in Vietnam.
Yeah, its good to have.
>>28572797
I'd rather have a reciprocating charging handle.
>>28573818
Fair enough, but does one exist that doesn't open the action up to debris?
>>28572934
You build a rifle less prone to failures
>TiN coated bolt
>nickel boron coated chamber
>54 grain polymer cased ammunition
>>28572797
are you going to un-install your forward assist??
>>28574340
>implying it's 1965 anymore
https://youtu.be/YAneTFiz5WU
>>28572979
Wilson makes a nice upper without one.
http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Billet-Upper-Receiver-AR-Style/productinfo/TR-UPPER-BIL/
>>28574086
Not really an issue for the AK or SCAR
>>28574384
>not an issue
https://youtu.be/DX73uXs3xGU
Every time I need the forward assist, the bolt it too far back for it to work. I have no idea why it even exists.
>>28572867
>>28572892
>>28574340
I can give you a perfect example of a good use of a FA.
>Mountain in Afghanistan.
>Been on patrol for 48 hours
>dust storm/general shit in rifle with no time to break down and clean.
>Suddenly in prolonged firefight, 800 rounds through your weapon already
>Dump mag and bolt locks back
>Insert new mag and release
>2 days of grit and dust impregnated CLP prevent it from going into battery fully
>engaging at 600m so pistol won't do shit
>tap FA to ensure the bolt is locked forward.
It was par for the course in the sandbox. Sand won't cause a massive malfunction, but it will be a hindrance to 100% reliable operation.
>>28574617
Stupid POG's cant clean their rifles. AR15 is most reliable gun in the world, didn't you see Ian's video?
I bet you weren't even in the army and you're just some autist with an AK.
>>28572797
Should be your last option for what? Chambering a round? Why would you use it at any other time?
>>28572797
What do forward assists actually do?
I ask because I have been pricing rifles and a factor I have noticed in price difference is whether or not the gun has a forward assist.
>>28575103
Assist forwarding.
>>28574086
G38 / SL8 does it by placing the charging handle up top so that the reciprocating action doesn't open the slot. You have to get your finger in to grab the CH though.
The Galil Ace has an automatic dust cover.
SCAR semi does it, pretty sure it's sealed well enough.
>>28575103
Shoves the bolt carrier forward. The AR-15 has a non-reciprocating charging handle - it only pulls back, not forward, so you can't use the charging handle to shove the bolt forward if there's an issue
>>28575246
hmm, this round doesn't want to go in.
guess I'll slam it in. that should do it
>>28575260
Eugene Stoner didn't want it on the rifle but the Army insisted.
If someone makes you a tool and says "no it doesn't need that" then it doesn't need that
>>28575260
Pretty much. Occasionally a jam will warrant its use. Most of the time you're better pulling the charging handle
>>28574407
Was going to post this.
>>28575438
>the Army insisted
That was after they seriously fucked up introducing the rifle in the field, IIRC.
>>28575473
I was told when I was a kid that the only time you used forward assist was to let the water out of your barrel without letting Charlie know you were there.
I've used it once when it didn't go all the way in battery (turned out a little shard of plastic was stuck to my bolt somehow) other than that I just think they look good. An AR just doesn't look right to me without it
>>28575218
you can just lock the carging handle in place
>>28572934
Pull rear pin and piss down bore.
Pull boresnake from grip storage and run through once.
>>28572797
>do away with forward assist
>on weapon with non reciprocating charging handle
ya fucked up m8
>>28574617
I hate cunts that use the word 'sandbox'.
>>28576797
From what I've read about SL8s it usually shakes back into place when the rifle is fired
>>28577005
A lot of guns do that. MP5, G3, FAL, probably more I can't remember right now. The G3 is so reliable that it doesn't matter
>>28575438
I'm sure there are tons of products out there that are directly in opposition of that last statement.
>>28572823
Why would you not want another tool that can be used to help resolve a malfunction.
I find it interesting that after insisting there is no need, S&W put one on their new MP 15 Sport II
http://youtu.be/3r8luxJkT6w
>>28578591
>those likes/dislikes
That's a lot of asspained M&P-15 owners.
>>28572797
Someone is going to say some crazy shit about afghanistan or something and how they felt better by being able to tap the FA, but really, honestly, if your gun is so fucked up you need to use the FA because recycling the bolt won't work, you're fucked.
Not only are you going to increase the chance of inducing a catastrophic failure (hmmm, the round won't seat fully, there may be a fucking barrel obstruction), but you may also be fucking slamming a damaged round into the chamber, which could jam the weapon in a much more serious manner. Stoner didn't design the rifle with an FA for those reasons, the military put it on there after using bullshit powder in their initial 5.56 issue ammo. Today, with modern powder it's really vestigial, and, as mentioned before, gives someone the chance to blow their rifle up whne they otherwise couldn't.
>>28572797
Looks better, provides an easy way to double check battery and can quite literally save your life in a shitty situation.
If you're shooting steel, animals or paper...yeah you can get by just fine without it. Just know your AR will look retarded and we will all laugh at you.
If you ever think about bringing said rifle out into terrain and getting into a gun battle, you would be retarded not to have one.
>taking volume of fire
>need to return fire
>reload and bolt does not drop all the way into battery
a. re-rack and inspect chamber, rack another round and then double and triple check you are in battery then casually return fire when convenient
b. Take a half second and slam the fucker into battery, get at least 1 round on target.
75% of the time the problem will work itself out just getting the gun firing again. ARs are actually pretty fucking awesome about getting back up and cycling full throttle again compared to a lot of other rifles.
>>28578747
Ah yes, this meme. Because every time the bolt won't fully go into battery, it's because there is a horrific KB waiting to happen, and the rifle should be awkwardly unshouldered, have the charging handle engaged in the hopes that the limited forward force will unseat the round fully from the mag, and reshouldered.
>>28578747
you bought a S&W, didn't you?
>>28578712
Addendum:
>There's nothing wrong with the M&P15 sport, it's a great rifle with a great reputation. This video is rigged, has nothing to do with the rifle, it's personal BS from a personal vendetta because they all have their panties in a bunch because Smith and Wesson didn't give Wombat a new pistol when he destroyed his by using garbage reloaded ammo that blew up the gun (100% his fault) and now all the sudden they are expecting all of these premium features on an entry level, economy AR15 that costs $500. Funny how they didn't mention that in the video. Spectre had lost all credibility and respect from this video. My God what a little whining bitch. Was tough to watch.
Hilarious butthurt aside, I had no idea a feature that has been standard for the past half century was a premium.
>>28578591
>Nit picking an entry model AR-15
Some people need to get a life.
>>28577500
Technological advancements made such that it no longer cut enough cost to not put them in.
>>28577006
Thank fuck, I thought I was the only one
>>28577006
>>28579753
Or, "The 'Stan"
>>28577322
>The G3 is so reliable that it doesn't matter
Except there have been several iterations of the G3 pattern rifle and its spawn that have forward assists added.
You can even buy them to install yourself.
http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/US-Made-Forward-Assist-Assembly-Complete-p852.htm
>>28573545
I agree.
>>28573806
This. It was added for a reason determined after actual combat use. Now some basement dwelling mall ninja skirt huggers say its useless because they will never need it.
>>28575103
It pisses me off that forward assist probably does add $10 cost to the manufacturer but one without it is $100 cheaper to the consumer.
>>28575260
When you are in the middle of a firefight... It makes sense. When you are sucking your mamas tit, it seems like a useless addition.
I always thought it was useless untill I took a no guns friend out shooting. Fucker rode the charging handle, pulled the trigger got a click. He handed me the rifle and I just looked at it and said fuck it, pressed forward assist. Fired. All was right in the world. Drilled it intk my friend that these are milspec weapons, you're not gonna hurt it or accidentaly break a rifle man.
>not using the FA to quietly close the action
Non TIER-1 OPERATORS detected
>>28577006
>>28579753
>>28579760
So do most people who actually deploy there.
>>28572797
its like you niggers never played basic training in "America's Army 2.0"
forward-assist hate is literally a meme just like M4geries. It goes against what Eugene Stoner (peace be upon him) intended for his creation.
Something that has been on every issued AR since 'Nam and suddenly a bunch of poorfags who bought a bargain bin AR think they know better.
>>28580382
u wot? Stoner didn't plan the AR-15 to have a forward assist. It was added at the request of the military.
>>28581549
>Stoner didn't plan the AR-15 to have a forward assist
he didnt plan on the AR15 at all faggot.
The AR10 was supposed to have the charging handle inside the carry handle, and it was reciprocating, hence why "he didnt plan on it to have a forward assist"
but, lo and behold, PVTs were burning their hand trying to charge their gun after using it, because SURPRISE, metal conducts heat very well, traveling up the bolt face, into the bolt, and to the charging surface.
read up on its history before you open your fucktarded mouth.
