Can Carl Gustav take out modern MBT? What about modern MBT with era?
It seems like the direct Western counterpart to the RPG-29, which can fuck up an M1 abrams right good.
>>28538361
>carl gustav
>direct western counterpart to RPG29
LOL
>>28538384
But really, the gustav is outdated garbage from 1940's that is useful as a general purpose rocket launcher, whereas the RPG-29 is a much more advanced AT launcher meant to engage MBT's.
>>28538420
>Carbon fibre
>Still in mainstream production
>Still in service with many, many countries
>Entering service more and more with the US military
>outdated
>garbage
>>28538467
Not to mention the sick optics these days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2cqXdJiCIQ
>>28538361
>FFV751 is a tandem-warhead HEAT round with an effective range of 500 m and ability to penetrate more than 500 mm of armour.
seems like it'd be decent.
not all tandem warheads are created equal but i think it'd atleast scratch the paint.
probably not do much to front armor. but what really does.
>>28538361
Not frontally.
>>28538361
You might get an immobilisation kill, but that's about it and then you've just got an angry pillbox looking to fuck your shit up.
They do pop most of the IFV/APC types of vehicles though.
>>28538467
>Design dates from 1948
Fuck off, it's a shitty 84mm bazooka, compared to a RPG 29 which has killed M1's and penetrated western MBTs frontally.
Soviet RPG's in 1970 came with better optics than some fag red-dot sight. Good luck getting a nice kentucky windage on a T72 at 250 meters with a dot sight.
The US has no equivelant of a RPG-29 in service.
>>28538910
>Design dates from 1948
So? It's a tube like any other launcher. The only thing that matters is the ammo which is perfectly up to date and there's plenty of
>>28538361
>>28538420
CG is not for tanks. The Javelin is.
>>28538910
>The US has no equivelant of a RPG-29 in service.
No because we've moved on to guided shit. The CG is general purpose, it's no longer anti-tank
>>28539216
Javelin is too big tho
Also really expensive and complex
>>28539229
It's a heck of a lot shorter than the RPG-29
It is expensive, but we're America so we'll pay for effective weapons. The top-attack profile is pretty dope.
>>28539341
RPG 29 folds to 1.01m. Given that it's radius is something like half the jav's, the overall folded size is smaller.
>>28539341
>The top-attack profile is pretty dope.
when it works. bretty much every tank out there can be fitted with multispectral cammo suites that significantly reduce sigs all around and give thermals on tanks FCS a run for their money- and the Javelin's seeker is nowhere near in performance to current model MBT FCS thermals.
>>28538361
Why did they ditch this for the SMAW again? Genuinely curious.
>>28540273
Wut.
The javs seeker can see out to 5 km. Its a actively cooled FPA IR seeker.
Im sorry, but no tank can defeat that at relevent ranges.
>>28540404
Because marines are speshul
>>28539229
A Javelin will actually 'frontally' kill a modern MBT, something an RPG-29 is not capable of.
>>28540273
>bretty much every tank out there can be fitted with multispectral cammo suites
I have to see this
>>28540428
A realistic Javelin range is more like 2.5km, controlled tests in optimal atmospheric conditions notwithstanding.
>>28540450
Yes, but we are talking about the seekers FPA resolution, not the range of the missle.
>>28538910
http://saab.com/land/weapon-systems/support-weapons/carl-gustaf-m4/
Have fun.
>>28540455
>we are talking about the seekers FPA resolution
Hence why I mentioned atmospheric conditions.
>>28540489
Actively cooled MerCad FPA's are not really effected all that much by atmospheric conditions.
Furthermore, if it can ID and lock a tank at 5km, it will do it at a more effective 2.5km no problem, regardless of the "mythical multispectral cammo suites" that was meantioned.
The seeker has a 9x zoom for fucks sake.
Tank is not hideing.
>>28540512
>>28540489
Guys stop fighting and just help me tie down this CG so we can fuck it
>>28540521
Fuck you.
Niggas talkin shit about my misslefu
>>28540524
it's ok friendo we're just making sure ur loyal to her is all
>>28540512
Probably referring to Barracuda MCS.
>>28540537
>dat resolution
>dat heat differential
What was the IR cam they were using? A potato? Its clearly uncooled but jesus christ, thats bad.
>>28539216
Well, the CG and the SMAW, which is getting a new optic array upgrade with LRF to replace the ballistically matched rifle.
>>28540524
I'm just goin with what the army says, we both know an RPG is not in the same league.
>>28540428
>The javs seeker can see out to 5 km.
Detection with NFOV you mean, as if thats enough to start engaging. tanks can see out at double that range, recog and detect with NFOV and WFOV at 4km resp. and ident. at 2km with NFOV, at minimum i must add.
>Its a actively cooled FPA IR seeker.
crap technology when compared to third gen QWIP based thermals on the latest tanks.
>>28540435
>I have to see this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTgHdCNxSA8
they are like TUSK kits- do you outfit every tank with them or only when the need arises?
>>28540552
>What was the IR cam they were using? A potato? Its clearly uncooled but jesus christ, thats bad.
http://www.army.mil/article/131663/MRD__ABOLC__SAAB_test_tank_camo_system/
they used the second-gen FLIR Gunner's sight from the M1A2. if they punkd those, Javelins wont see shit all the more.
>>28540579
Only when the need arises.
>>28540579
>Detection with NFOV you mean
Negitive.
The actively cooled seeker of the missle has a much farther zoom (9x compared to 4x) and target discretion (much higher resolution FPA) than the CLUs optics.
>>28540613
>The actively cooled seeker of the missle has a much farther zoom (9x compared to 4x) and target discretion (much higher resolution FPA) than the CLUs optics.
proofs?!? here's mine:
https://www.thalesgroup.com/sites/default/files/asset/document/catherinefc_uk_071005.pdf
how the servers like nowadays? the game is literally filled with engineers running around with the gustav
>>28540621
Oh, i thought you said WFOV.
NFOV has a 12x zoom at 240x2.
The Seeker had a 9x zoom at 64x64, hence the higher res.
>>28540621
Oh, and muh proofs.
http://web.archive.org/web/20090227003737/http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/rtnwcm/groups/ncs/documents/content/rtn_ncs_products_scanning_jave.pdf
>>28540622
What? No it isn't. It's better than ever imo. Still lots of full servers at all hours
>>28540698
this is just the photodetector, zoom is function of zoom(duh!) lens.
>>28540744
Higher res is higher zoom is higher target discrimination.
>>28540521
The CG is 84mm, that's 83mm to big for you
>>28540273
>pretty much every tank out there can be fitted with multispectral cammo
Same can be said about an active protection system which the RPG-29 cannot defeat while the javelin can top-attack.
>>28540537
>WW2 - Visibility extremely limited, zoomed optics not common at all, mostly ironsights. Can often see people but your ability to hit them is somewhat limited.
Now - Visibility is the direct opposite, everyone and their dog has thermals on their tanks, US has thermal / NV monoculars going into service, MGs have FLIR.
15-20 years from now - Everyone and their dog has stealth systems on everything, visibility goes back to being shit, but as soon as someone fails to hide themselves they're taken out
I'm not sure what is worse, honestly
OP the carl gustav is more of a "multirole" portable recoilless rifle. It's much more versatile, has airburst functions and can be suited on the fly to a vast variety of situations, its size is constant (doesn't change when loaded), it's lightweight. Something that is more interesting for special operations group rather than the average grunt. Oh, also it's arguably stealthier when using non-rocket boosted rounds.
The RPG-29 instead is just an advanced anti tank weapon. It has thermobaric rounds, too, but that's it. Its issued with the specific role of blowing up tanks. Which means that it does that better than the CG, yes.
>>28538862
>but what really does.
The RPG-29. Rated for 750mm, or 600mm after ERA effects. Got through the front of a challenger 2.
>>28538361
Quick answer, no. An MBT cannot be taken out by a Carl Gustav.
Long answer, if you were talking about the AMX-30 or the Leopard 1 then maybe. But anything with actual armor? Nope.
The same reason the Carl Gustav is in service is the same reason the M72 LAW is as well. In our current situation there aren't any targets heavily armored enough to justify a dedicated anti-tank weapon. It's a tube that launches explosives and that's all it needs to do.
>>28540273
>when it works. bretty much every tank out there can be fitted with multispectral cammo suites that significantly reduce sigs all around and give thermals on tanks FCS a run for their money
>this is what vatniks believe
Number of tanks saved by this cammo suits in real combat? Zero.
>>28541974
> It's a tube that launches explosives and that's all it needs to do.
Wrrrrong. It's a *very versatile* tube that launches explosives. The LAW is in service because its small and simple, the CG is in service because soldiers, especially specops and light infantry, love it.
With properly trained operators you can airburst fuckers behind cover, it's a big thing.
>>28541988
>number of tanks with such camo that saw service against nations with advanced AT launchers
>zero
Fixed.
>>28538910
>slavboos
>>28541868
>The RPG-29. Rated for 750mm, or 600mm after ERA effects. Got through the front of a challenger 2.
It got through the LFP which was just a steel plate with ERA.
>>28538420
CG isn't a rocket launcher.
>>28538583
"Hey dude, sweet optic! How's it called?"
"DURRRRRRRRRRRR"
>>28540622
That game was fuckin 10/10
>>28538361
>>28541868
Question for any CF infantrymen out there, what's life like in battalion after DP1/SQ? Been thinking of switching trades because the navy is gay as fuck, but has a lot of deployment opportunities.
>>28540622
Thought it was Engineers with AT-4s
>>28547323
what trade are you now, in the navy?
The HEAT 751 is the default AT warhead, it has a tandem charge to negate ERA and then penetrates another >500mm RHA.
That won't pierce frontal armor, obviously, but it will penetrate side armor, especially vs soviet style turrets.
>>28541974
>M72 LAW
Isn't that think a piece of shit, though?
>Super expensive
>No power
>One use
>>28540562
Wait is the spotting 9mm suppressed? Thats rad as fuck if it is.
>>28548529
The CG has a 9mm gun attached to it? That's amazing just by itself.
>>28541657
>Same can be said about an active protection system which the RPG-29 cannot defeat while the javelin can top-attack.
depends. newer APS extend their engagement zone over the vehicle too, and you don't even need hard-kill interceptors when just obscurants could do the trick of hiding the tank from the top attack munition's seeker and breaking the kill chain.
>>28538361
>It seems like the direct Western counterpart to the RPG-29
no its not. its a recoilless rifle so its direct analogue should be the SPG-9, another recoilless rifle.
>>28548480
It's not great but it's also only 5 1/2 pounds. That's the kind of thing you can give one to every guy to split up the load.
>>28548480
It's very small and very light, which makes it easy to carry and gives average soldiers a decent option against light vehicles.
>>28548683
>>28548724
May as well use underbarrel grenade launchers.
>>28548658
Nope that's some kind of tricked out SMAW with no rocket installed. SMAW's have a 9mm attached with special spotting ammo that has the same ballistics as the rocket and a small spotting charge. It's for fast ranging the lead and holdover in combat. Honestly has anyone used a SMAW? What's the 9 actually like I have always been curious?
>>28548737
That's like saying a soldier only needs a handgun instead of a rifle.
>>28548853
But isn't your logic similar to saying all soldiers should have LMGs instead of rifles?
>>28548737
Except underbarrels can't fire HEAT rockets.
>>28541868
Got through the weld at the point where the Lower and upper plate met this was just RHA, no ERA, it now has a fuckhueg chobham kickblock.
Even when it penetrated all it did was hurt the drivers toe
>>28539229
It's a top-attack guided missile capable of hard-killing any armor in existence from long ranges in any weather from behind cover.
I'll take that over something smaller.
>>28548480
Against armor made after the 60's? Yeah it's pretty shit.
The HEDP variant? That thing is TITS.
>5.5lbs
>small enough to be strapped to an assault pack sideways and still fit through doors
>retardedly simple to use
>powerful enough to 1-shot sandbag, concrete, and mud-wall structures
>super fucking cheap
No idea where you got the "super expensive" bit, they're literally only a couple hundred bux. About the only explosive weapon anybody has that's cheaper would be Russian F1 hand grenades
>yes the US M67 frag costs more than the LAW for some retarded reason
>>28548737
But it's like 12x the power of a 40mm grenade.
While weighing only a fraction more than an M320.
>>28548910
Since when is every soldier armed with a Carl Gustav?
>>28549425
On the other hand, you can only carry one AT4, but you can carry twelve 40mm grenades.
And when we start using 25mm grenades of the same power, you can carry twenty four 25mm grenades.
>>28549984
AT4=/=LAW.
AT4 has roughly 37x the explosive content of a 40mm HEDP, as well as being a shaped-charge warhead. On the other hand, it's also about twice as heavy as a LAW or about the same weight as an M320 plus 12 HEDP grenades.
>>28548658
>The CG has a 9mm gun attached to it?
Made me think of this.
>>28548786
Like I said, the SMAW-II is dropping the rifle for a far faster and more accurate system.
>>28550679
OICW
70s edition
>>28538910
> ran out of vodka ration.
> now to use last of internet ration.
Its a lovely weapon system. And firing illumination rounds at night during winter exercises warms your butt like nothing else.
>>28548529
>>28548658
spotting rifle, same thing on the SMAW
>>28540404
The marines proved to dumb to say "Carl Gustav".
The marines were however capable of saying "SMAW" since it's similar in pronunciation to the basic primal grunting noises marines use to communicate.
>>28548724
The US also has fucktons of them in stock with no good use for them so they are handed out like candy to anyone who wants them.
I think its more accurate to compare CG to RPG-7, especially if both are taken in their modern iterations.
>>28547323
We sit around a lot, do training, or do pt.
