To what extent is China's military development based on stealing US research? Is there any area where China is actually ahead?
Culinary uses of man's best friend.
>>28521394
Theft of research.
>>28521394
Hyperfast projectiles. They are testing some things that are absolutely insanely fast.
Their military is well structured IMO, and if they need a peice of hardware to fit a niche, they make it on budget and on time.
>To what extent is China's military development based on stealing US research?
1. Define "stealing research".
2. "Define "military development" while you're at it.
In any case, the most basic answer is "More than the US likes, less than people actually believe".
>>28521394
We don't know.
All we know is that China can't train and hire enough hackers to exploit all the exploits in US enterprise and government computer systems.
Apparently they've got some good jamming technology. Air Force R&D guy I know says we focused on stealth so they can't see us, they focused on jamming so everyone's blind.
>>28521616
Their latest dedicated EW bird has jamming receiver pods that looks like the ALQ-218.
>>28521401
Underrated post
>>28522006
In short: they're catching up, but they can't develop virtually anything on their own, additionally to constantly lying, hiding and exaggerating specs of their products. It's kinda the same deal like with the Chinese cars - they look fine, but only until you take a peek what's inside.
Chinese tanks. Wasted years trying to develop their own engines, then bought the license from Germans. After T-72B3 proves to be faster than Type 96 on tank biathlon, they immediately edit horsepower specs in every official source and advertisment sheet, then bring stripped down, "racing" version on the next competition.
Chinese jets, the same story. Can't create reliable and powerful engine. Every year they promise to let WS-10 and WS-15 into mass production, and every year they delay it again, despite the whole series being based on the old Canadian AL-31, which itself is a copy of American B-1 bomber engine. Still doesn't stop them from reassuring WS-15 will be better than AL-41F1 or F119.
Chinese proudly present J-10, first national multirole fighter jet that isn't based on Soviet designs - and then you discover the model itself was made by aerospace bureau in Novosibirsk.
Chinese announce 5 gen stealth fighter - and then you see that unpainted prototype consists of duralumin with yellow anticorrosive coating and no carbon.
If there's any area where they will be ahead in future is electronics. For anything else, Chinese lack fundamental science and research base.
>>28522085
holy shit so much wrong.
dont even want or know how to start.
>daily reminder that the Chinese will get their J-20 sooner and in greater numbers than the Russians their T-50
Also, the WS-10 is in service for years, with hundreds of planes flying with it already. And not one accident, compared to multiple accidents of Flankers and J-10s equipped with AL-31Fs..
>>28522085
Confirmed to be either a butthurt slav or just a burger who doesnt know better and instead parrots the same old cliches.
For Chinese cars - they are getting a lot better and that's from 2013:
http://www.am-online.com/news/2014/1/9/chinese-car-takes-2013-top-safety-rating-from-euro-ncap/34194/
>Chinese car takes 2013 top safety rating from Euro NCAP
>The Chinese built Qoros 3 was the best performer of any car subjected to Euro NCAP’s crash tests in 2013 and is the first vehicle developed in China to achieve the highest five star rating under the overall rating scheme.
>>28521394
Think of how you typed ''acceptall'' and stole US/Soviet tech in Hearts of Iron 2, remember?
That's what they do all the time. Their J21/31 development is total copy of the plans they stole from their hacking of Lockheed Martin in 2009.
Although, some high end manager could also allowed that ''hack'' to happen for some money as well, who knows.
Five Years...
From demonstrator to LRIP type.
>>28521507
>>28522299
>J20/31
>>28522323
Because we have such a great insight on how long the program has been actually brewing.
We only see what they want us to see.
>>28522085
J-10 is also an F-16 copy, they probably got good look at F-16s in Pakistani inventory.
>>28521530
>enterprise
Well, to be fair, it is a tough nut to crack.
>>28521507
>Their military is well structured IMO, and if they need a peice of hardware to fit a niche, they make it on budget and on time.
This cannot be repeated enough. They really do things on budget and on time:
51 ships commissioned from 2013-2015.
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/focus-analysis/naval-technology/3433-the-impressive-commissioning-pace-of-the-chinese-navy-plan-in-2015.html
>>28521464
/thread
>>28522356
Nah, everything's basically based on the J-9 series that they have been working on and then abandoned in the late 70s.
The J-10 is based on the J-9VI-1, while the J-20 is based on the J-9VI-2
>>28522465
The J-9VI-1 later on got its chin-nose, which then became the J-10.
>>28522147
>Jet that size
>Will carry less than a Block5 F-35
Hilarious.
>>28522474
And the J-9VI-2, originally intented to become some sort of dog-fight capable MiG-25 (but failed because China couldnt get an FBW working at that time), was to become the foundation of the J-20.
>>28522488
Space-wise, it has deeper and longer bays than both F-22 and F-35.
Only the PL-12Cs that they have been testing are too big to fit in more than four - and that's being very conservative, leaving lots of clearance between the rounds. Pic related.
With the PL-15 approaching service, the J-20 will have six internally carried 400km ranged ramjet powered BVRAAMs.
>>28522540
Another shot showing the depth of the bays.
>>28522540
>PL-15
ha oh fuck me thats hilarious
I feel like at this point its easier to describe Chinese equipment as what tech they're trying ever so cutely to rip off this time rather than their designations. Pretty sure it wouldn't stop be talking about anything.
Can we just call it the Meteor-F instead? for fake?
>>28522616
Yeah, might as well.
>>28522416
That's nothing special, really. The USN has been cranking out Burkes and Virginias at a pretty steady rate.
>>28522616
Hurrr duurr copy
Go back you the youtube comment sections retard.
>>28522705
man that was kinda rude
>>28522681
2 a year vs 25 a year is a big difference m8
>>28522760
And trying going from no Navy to trying to match the numbers of the largest Navy in the world is a big difference, too. The USN has no particular need to suddenly start cranking out 20 ships at a time.
>>28522085
Though I agree in general with you, your examples are either wrong or irrelevant to what you're arguing.
>>28522343
You assume we knew more about the 22 in the early 2000's?
The truth is it has come a long way in 5 years. Why? Lots and lots and lots of their best engineers and their best money.
The first flight was definitely in early 2011. That we know for sure because no one on Chinese social media mentioned it before that, and these chinks take pictures of EVERYTHING.
>>28522488
In the time it takes for the Block 5B to come around, the PL-15 will have emerged making the two planes similar in armament.
It's likely the J-20 will have a heavier armament load and more missiles sooner than the F-35 because the PL-15 is close to finished in testing.
>>28522416
Having a command economy can work wonders for production.
>>28522085
The biggest problem the Chinese have is with metallurgy and material science in general. That's part of the reason their engines tend to under perform or have poor reliability.
Metallurgy and material science, but the production processes behind cutting edge materials is what they focus a lot of their hacking and spying effort on.
>>28522616
>le everything Chinese is a copy
If it works it works in my view.
>>28523639
>if it works
If you're always a generation behind in an arena which requires bleeding edge tech and constant innovation to sit at the top, can it be said to work?
>>28523658
Maybe.
Are you implying the Chinese are not catching up?
>>28523658
A generation behind USA and Europe, but 10 generations ahead of the African countries they're colonizing, and they got that technology for cheap without the need to pay licensing fees.
China has always been pretty smart about their military dollars. They only ever built ~300 nukes because it's enough for a deterrent. China doesn't need current gen planes because they'll never engage in direct operations against US, Russia or EU and invite nuclear conflict, so why spend the money?
>>28522147
>>28522259
chink shill detected
>>28523746
>that economy
kek, more like catching up to 2008
>>28523902
?
6.9% growth is 2008? Maybe in China.
>>28521394
>To what extent is China's military development based on stealing US research?
About tree fiddy
>Is there any area where China is actually ahead?
crustaceans from the paleolithic era
>>28523863
Ayy lmao
Nice sourceless ad hominem.
Here's the picture from Bloomberg of Chinese automobiles. J.D. Power finds that they have fewer defects than American cars.
>>28522416
>081
Bullshit, that thing doesn't exist
>>28524030
It does not. I bet this article's picture source is of planned commissionings by their date.
Still it's generally accurate. China has been producing enormous amount of major naval combatants.
>>28523997
Not that guy, and I'll concede that the Chinese automobile industry is improving, as their market changes and expands along with demands changing, however a big contributor of shitty US cars is all the foreign built shit that gets thrown in them. For example you might have a Ford engine block cast in Mexico with worse QC, which then gets sent to the US for assembly and fucks up.
>>28522416
>building lots of small ships as make work means China's military is not rife with corruption, nepotism and old boys
There is a reason their current president is trying to clean house.
>>28522540
>PL-15
>400km range
50cent never fail to deliver
>>28524190
>imlying a Navy doesn't start from low-tonnage vessels and up.
>>28523953
Despite official claims, China's growth was closer to 2% in 2015.
>>28524229
So you acknowledge that counting by hulls instead of tonnage is misleading.
>>28523997
>initial quality
>long term reliability
>different things
>both important
>one graph
>>28524274
Well I'm not that fiddy centers so yeah. China is still in the relatively early stages of building up it's navy. It's biggest concerns for the immediate future are establishing a presence in the South China sea, and that starts with mostly low tonnage vessels and getting their logistics sorted out.
>>28521507
>well structured
Explain the upcoming reform and restructuring, pls.
http://m.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/1883606/china-vows-breakthrough-long-awaited-military-reform
>>28522416
>on budget
Who cares? America can waste all the money it wants amd Chiba still cant keep up.
>>28522760
Spamming a bunch of hulls is useless if there's no well-developed doctrine to fit them into. China is working toward that end, but they're doing it ass backward.
It's more cost effective to create a doctrine first. Plan your work, then work your plan. Sticking a bunch of ships in the water is not the same as building a navy.
>>28521394
Probably genetic modification or chemical weapons/radiation/other illegal or frowned upon tech.
Basically anything that gives the UN more asshurt then normal, since godless commies don't care.
>>28525469
This is called LRIP. More hulls more development
>>28521394
They stole mres from the usa
>>28525666
Compare to when usa stole gunpowder from China. It is insignificant. All this thing of america complaining is not enough for royalties.
>>28525562
You shouldn't use words if you do not know what they mean.
>>28525829
u wot
>>28522465
>>28522474
>>28522497
The J-10 is based on the Lavi and F-16, its pretty obvious, even if it isn't the official party line.
They hacked most of the 3rd party F22 and F35 manufacturers.
so everything they have is a rip off.
china never innovates, mush like apple.
>>28525562
What an amazingly ignorant thing to say. Are you actually claiming that China is going to keep pushing out ships until a naval doctrine just miraculously appears?
Holy shit, that's stupidity of Biblical proportions right there.
>>28525829
>usa stole gunpowder from China
Source, pls.
>>28526288
I'm assuming he meant way back when gunpowder was discovered.
Because that's the least retarded interpretation I've got, even if it's still retarded.
>>28522540
Looks like they could do 4 or 5 of the folding fin ones in each bay. Why don't they?
>>28528031
Not enough room for separation.
>>28526288
America is using gunpowder and other synonymous objects without paying royalties to China, America should pay China because of Intellectual Property Rights.
>>28521394
they have more bull pup
>>28530187
Do I have to pay Ogg's family for using the invention of the spear?
Composite chopsticks
>>28522299
Its easy to predict the actions of your enemy when they follow the same evolutionary path as you.
>>28521507
>Their military is well structured IMO
>China
good fucking lord. I don't even think the Chinese Government believes that statement.
>>28530218
Yes.
t. Sir Ogg MMXVII, esq.
>>28521394
>is there any area where China is actually ahead
Infantry swarm tactics, that's it.
>>28532030
it's not the 1950's anymore
>>28525935
>They hacked most of the 3rd party F22 and F35 manufacturers.
>china never innovates
stealing cutting-edge tech from a potential enemy by hacking isn't an innovative form of warfare?
>>28534203
airframe blueprints are no longer cutting edge tech
>>28534267
chinese also have AESA radars with solid-state t/r elements, diverterless air intakes, radar absorbing materials and more.
just compare J-20 with PAK-FA. it's somewhere else entirely. china went from shitting out mig knockoffs right to the cutting edge, while russians are still stuck in 1980s
>>28522147
>>daily reminder that the Chinese will get their J-20 sooner and in greater numbers than the Russians their T-50
>sooner
20 years is sooner than never
>greater numbers
1 is greater than 0
>>28534323
AESAs have existed in operational fighters for 16 years.
Diverterless air intakes have existed for more than 26.
RAM has existed since 1944, modern RAM since 1983
>Cutting Edge
lmao
>>28532008
zozzlinio'd
>>28530187
Your copyright expired a long time ago. Gunpowder and all derivative substances are open source.
>>28521394
To what extent does a bear's shitting occur in the woods? Does he ever wipe?
>>28532030
>people still believe this despite 50~ years of history saying otherwise
>>28521394
>>28521394
To what degree is America's military development based on stolen research?
>>28536715
>stolen
more like bought or joint developed
>>28521394
There's no area where they are ahead based on independent work.
>>28521464
It's not theft if Israel just sells it to them.
>>28524088
>however a big contributor of shitty US cars is all the foreign built shit that gets thrown in them
American cars had been crap since the late 60's, when (the Japanese) competition arrived.
This was before Mexico made it even worse.
