Where would the RK-95 rank on the AK tier list?
Best raifu
For cold condition, tied with the Galil for top tier. Which one wins out depends entirely on your preference between 7.62 and .223.
>>28482359
Peak of the mountain
What about the RK-62?
overrated/meme tier
It's good, don't get me wrong but people over exaggerate how good it is.
>>28482394
>>28482359
numba one :D
>>28482406
62M should really be used already
>>28482405
SE ON SITÄ SUOMALAISTA LAATUA POIKA
>>28482405
>chiquita
10/10
>>28482359
The elder-god tier.
>>28482383
there are 5.56 RK95s out there as well. They're just a lot more rare than 7.62x39 ones.
>>28482394
still god-tier. Pic related is one of the modernized variants.
SUOMI PERKELE VITTU SAUNA SAATANA
Not even an RK fag but it really is the best AK.
>>28482828
>It really is the best
>Has never fired a one
>tfw some units of FDF use RK95+ACOG as DMRs, and pop targets from the distances of 450m
shit compared to the ak-12 or even ak-101
>>28482851
450m isn't shit, especially for magnified optics. What are you trying to prove?
>>28482851
We did it out to 650. It is probably the most accurate AK OOB, I shot sub-MOA with mine.
But I don't think the RK is all that good as a military weapon compared to other AKs or ARs. It is WAY too expensive and slow to produce.
It is one of the best AKs for range use, but I think a regular AKM would be better suited with production, compatibility and logistics. An AR would be even better, considering we are getting buddies with NATO.
>>28482851
First of all, that image is disgusting. Second of all 450m is hardly impressive.
>>28482895
With modern CNC machinery, they could be cranked out fast enough. The brunt of the high cost came from material development and SAKO's obsession with quality control.
If they were used like russia utilizes their AKs, a cheaper, throw-away gun would be the better choice. 10-15 years of conscript abuse, then off to the scrap heap. The -62 and the -95 on the other hand were developed to the requirement that the gun be usable for multiple decades.
I used an RK62 for a year during my conscription. Compared to my own Saiga M3, the RK was by far superior. Better accuracy, better overall feel to the weapon system. Of course the 62 had the tube stock etc whereas my Saiga has collapsible stock and soon a quadrail. But comparing the two in original condition, RK is better.
>>28482868
you still see those claims like "hurr AK's useless past 300 meters, because huge bullet drop". Like >>28482895 mentioned, with a decent optic the RKs can easily hit past 600m.
>>28482895
>An AR would be even better, considering we are getting buddies with NATO.
Wouldn't touch an AR with a meter long pole. If we gotta have a NATO toy, then use the SCAR-L the FDF adapted just now for the SFs. For a typical conscript and reservists, a 5.56 AK like Galil would be the better pick; everyone already would know how to use and maintain it as well. Than new VZ rifle looked pretty boss too.
>>28483315
There is no good reason not to consider an AR variant.
>>28483343
AR's lose out to long stroke designs in very cold conditions
>inb4 1 meme test proving 1 company's AR works after a -30 degree C test that can't be replicated by anyone else
>>28483357
Canadiands have been using ARs for years now. Fuck, even some Russian Speznaz units started using ARs a while back.
Using the wrong kind of oil will kill the gun, sure. But that happens to AKs too, although to a lesser extent.
So just get the right oil and you are good to go.
The AR holds so many benefits that changing the oil and adjusting the maintenance routine is a miniscule price to pay.
>inb4 that one skewed test
Is there even such a thing as a cold-weather AR type rifle?
I mean, REALLY cold weather like what you see in north Europe and a lot of other places?
>>28483400
>Fuck, even some Russian Speznaz units started using ARs a while back.
>>28483429
A regular AR fares ok in extreme cold as long as you don't use some shitty remoil and GI mags.
>>28483429
Norway uses HK416.
>>28483443
Canada uses Diemaco ARs
>>28483434
Does this break your world view?
Speznaz operator in training. A-tacs and an AR.
In some speznaz units they can actually influence on what their rifles are. In those units ARs seem to be the norm. In every other unit the operators are making their AKs as AR-ish as possible.
>>28483498
>>28483343
>>28483400
AR's are over complicated for a typical 6 month conscripts, who may have to literally LIVE innawoods for several weeks at once.
>>28483443
many Norwegians have bitched and whined about their HK416 failing during winter, while their beaten up G3 rifles still work flawlessly.
>>28482359
I have the civvie model and she's the best AK I've shot, and I've tried Russian, Bulgarian, Chinese and East German AKs. Sako just feels better, and is unparalleled in the accuracy department.
>>28483400
ARs are pretty good for direct action special forces who don't have to live innawoods and neglect their firearm.
>>28483656
And after going to all that trouble to find the best rifle, they adopted some other piece of shit, forcing state troopers to jump through many unnecessary hoops to maintain and use their weapons.
>>28483656
Oh, there comes the test where they tested one of each rifle. Cool.
>AR
>complicated
Lol no.
>>28483821
AR can deal with some serious neglect.
We cleaned our RKs pretty much every night on training exercises. Both the AK and the AR can go for a very long time without proper maintenance. Both can freeze shut if you use wrong oil.
When will the
>ARs are unreliable and complicated
>AKs are inaccurate and simpler
meme die?
>>28483869
How do you un-fuck a frozen solid AR tho? Those charging handles seem less than ideal for just applying more power until shit's moving again
>>28483869
>Lol no.
Lol YES. Seriously, fuck ARs and their dozens of tiny bits and pieces. You trip over and fall on your gun, and it's pretty much broken for good.
>Both can freeze shut if you use wrong oil.
The difference is, that you can fix the frozen AK/RK with a one strong stomp on the charging handle. Had to do that myself after sleeping in a tent when it was -30 celsius outside, and I left the gun lean on the tent's metallic pole through the night.
I never cleaned my rifle in the woods.
>>28483869
>When will the
>>ARs are unreliable and complicated
>>AKs are inaccurate and simpler
>meme die?
Probably never, people love simplistic comparisons of dubious accuracy.
>>28483357
Ive left my BCM lightweight middy out overnight when we had a nightime low of -48°c, it worked just fine at -43° when I went to shoot it.
But battery powered optics don't work at that temp, which is why I changed out my dot sight for a 1-4x scope.
>>28483889
You put a boot on the charging handle and stomp the buttstock into the ground, careful to control the muzzle so you aren't risking a Curt Cobain.
You might break the latch, but that doesn't affect the rifle's functioning. The charging handle material has yeild strength of 275 MPa, and its got a cross section approaching 40 mm2, so it should take any blow you can deliver, at least a couple times.
>>28483897
>>28483889
If you are Finns and go to /jorma/, I'll post more about this issue in the sticky in the future once I get around to it.
I strongly believe that ARs are just as reliable as AKs and overall better rifles.
And this is coming from a huge AK-fag..
>No more Valmet imports
>Can't even get them in neutered configuration
>Only ones available in america are in .223
Hurts bad, man.
>>28483985
The yield strength changes with the temperature.
>>28483987
I practice 3 gun shooting (Practical), and our club only has ARs and Glawks. Got to try a chink AKM just recently for the first time, and I greatly prefer the feel and style of it. It's hard to put my finger on it, but AR15 really feels like a toy, with an audible spring going "sproing!" inside it when you fire.
The only reason people (=Yanks) push AR and .223 as a standard is because they adapted it, and can't be assed to replace it with anything anymore.
>>28484056
>audible spring going "sproing!" inside it when you fire
LUBE
THE BUFFER
TUBE
>>28484056
Since you actually shoot for competition, did you notice coming off target more with the 7.62x39 recoil compared to the .223?
That's my biggest complaint with my AK. Well, that and it's a good 3 pounds heavier.
>>28483897
>>28483985
I am so fucking glad I do not live somewhere that a sturdy reciprocating handle becomes an asset because my fucking gun becomes coated in ice.
Jesus Chrsit, the Finn love for saunas begins to make sense.
>>28483869
>When will the
>>ARs are unreliable and complicated
>>AKs are inaccurate and simpler
>meme die?
when you stop comparing the two and getting the owners of one or the other buttblasted
>>28484079
>did you notice coming off target more with the 7.62x39 recoil compared to the .223?
Not really, no. I haven't tested either gun beyond 100m though, most often we're at around 50-75m tops at the range. AK had no problems hitting those roughly A3 paper-sized targets of ours. Some people seem to also hate the AK's "open" sights, but I actually like them more than peep sights. Gives you a better view of the surroundings or something.
>>28484113
>Jesus Chrsit, the Finn love for saunas begins to make sense.
Even if it was +30 outside, we'd still grave for Sauna at the end of the day. It's kind of a relaxation and cleansing thing as well, plus a form of socializing with friends.
>>28484049
It will still survive you stomping on it a couple times, the part costs less than $10, and if you break it the rifle will still fire, so you should not feel bad if you damage it.
>>28483985
Cool, now I want an AR just so I can see how satisfying it is to kick-start compared to a RK.
>>28483987
Please do, although I don't think I'll be very convinced until I get one and do some first hand experimenting.
>>28483869
Lucky for you /k/ doesn't have flags some might actually believe the shit you are sprouting
>>28484113
I'm (3895) from Minnesota, actually.
>>28484179
>now I want an AR just so I can see how satisfying it is to kick-start compared to a RK.
The more proper procedure is called "mortaring", where you grab hold of the handguard and the charging handle latch, pull down on the charging handle, and smack the buttstock of the gun into the ground
It's kinda ridiculous how well it works.
>>28484174
>break it in a bad situation
>not feel bad
>>28484021
America has the .308 and x39 Valmets too.
Just have to scour the AK forums, but I see them quite often.
>>28483987
You are free to believe what you want, dear, but that doesn't make it true. AKs simply can deal with more abuse and ARs are more finicky. Doesn't mean that AKs are overall better rifles, but they are better in some respects. The rest is opinions.
>>28484209
I will dive into this subject on /jorma/, as I really can't type a goid response with a cellphone here.
Let's agree to disagree.
Hmm.. something ate this message on the first try.
>>28484181
Cool.
>>28484113
Sauna is the best no matter the weather.
Pic related. Mine was pretty hot the other day. Fs for your convenience.
>>28484056
I, too, prefer the feel of the AK and hence Saiga Mk is my main reservist rifle.
Though I think that the only good reasons to buy an AK over an AR are
>the price
>surplus ammo
>compatibility with military parts
>your personal preference.
So I believe that AR is a better weapon system, but I use an AK as my main reservist rifle, if that makes any sense.
Same story with my Dragunov. I think that AR10 is a better rifle, but I chose an SVD because I like it more.
>>28484334
And here's the pic. Muh sauna was all warm and fuzzy :3
>>28483343
ARs are over rated shit compared to the other offerings in the world.
The only reason why so many people use them because the US military gives tons of "foreign aid" to countries.
>>28484383
Opinions like this make the hard-core AK-fags look dumb.
>>28484383
Not all ARs though, because AR 18 exists.
>>28484342
Wait, are you barbed-wire-and-cousin guy from /int/?
Somewhere below the c39 by century and just above a Vulcan arms quality ak if they made one
>>28484428
Actually no, but the guy is my sauna friend :D
Did the thermometer give it away?
>>28484445
Yeah, that and using Imperial units for us barbarians. Has he tried to sell you on the barbed wire yet?
>>28484334
>So I believe that AR is a better weapon system, but I use an AK as my main reservist rifle, if that makes any sense.
>Same story with my Dragunov. I think that AR10 is a better rifle, but I chose an SVD because I like it more.
This is a very respectful and respectable opinion, thank you.
Now convince someone to sell RK kits to us Americans so I can build one to keep my Polish AKM kit built rifle company in a safe full of otherwise American guns (several ARs, M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, M1898 Krag-Jorgensson, Kimber 84M, Mossberg 590). It could probably even help with the Swedish Mauser's loneliness.
>>28484342
too hot to be comfy
regular shitfaced "I bet I can stay in longer than you" temperature
>>28483498
>>28483510
>Spetznaz guys with ARs and glawks
>Slavboos btfo
>>28484487
Seconding that request. I too would like an RK-95, but I fear what may happen with the Saiga, Sako, and Walther PPQ sitting so close to one another.
>>28484476
I use it too, actually.
>>28484492
That's how I roll. I don't even drink.
My dad is a sauna-freak and I learned my ways from him.
>>28484056
>Practical
Is that the gay version of SRA with lightly loaded bulits?
>>28484514
>Sako and PPQ
You're me aren't you?
>>28484979
AFUCK OFF YOU( FUCKGIN WEEBN
>>28484979
Is that a T1 optic?
How's it worked for ya? Keeps zero and hits the target, no matter the relatively high mount?
I've been thinking of getting one for my Norinco.
>>28485090
H1. I didn't see a point in paying extra for night vision. Couldn't be happier with the sight itself, but the mounting solution is pretty bad. No problems with zero, but it's too damn high.
>>28485233
Just wrap some cloth and tape around the stock for a cheek rest. Problem solved.
>>28485233
Thanks. I saw one of these Aimpoint T1 / H1s (or their knockoffs) go for fairly cheap just now, so I might bite and make it my first red-dot. Guess I'll get a cheek-rising wrap for the rifle's butt too.
>>28485372
Well sure, but I've been wanting the original triangle cheekpiece. I think I'll have to settle for something like that because I just can't find one.
>>28485426
Don't buy knock-offs, the couple of extra hundred you have to pay for an authentic sight is worth it.
>>28485688
To be honest the original is not that good, especially for the price.
Cloth and tape is just as usable but free.
>>28482359
>>28482374
read >>28482405
The RK62/95 are overhyped as fuck. No mass military besides Finland bought them, and Valmet stopped producing them years ago.
It had some good elements to it, but not enough to justify the costs. Anything good about it was copied by the jews into the Galil, which was a very successful rifle for both military and civilian sales around the world.
TL;DR The Galil shit all over the RK.
Where can I get one of these? I've been looking into getting an AK or some variant and these look like sex.
>>28484513
>implying that's not just some LARP-shooting
>>28485904
yeah but I like the rk62 more
>>28483429
Why does everyone thing an AR would fair poorly in the cold? There's parts of the US that are colder than anywhere in Europe. I don't understand what exactly is going to fair badly in the cold? Proper lubrication won't freeze and an AR has tight chamber tolerances that keep things out of it.
>>28485856
But the looks man
>>28485934
It's a unit that uses ARs on the reg. Tjose pics are from a training session with another Russian agency. They were competing in an agency compeuition measuring shooting skills and soldier knowhow.
>>28485904
>The RK62/95 are overhyped as fuck. No mass military besides Finland bought them, and Valmet stopped producing them years ago.
Popularity != quality.
>>28485975
Oh, you should have said you were a queer :D
>>28484487
>>28484514
The milled receiver and the sight placement on gas block and rear of the top cover is 95% of the 'magic' what makes those rifles accurate. Don't know the specifics, but I feel that both of those two attributes are easily archivable without a specific kit from what is already on the market in the US
>>28485991
If wanting to be a little girl makes me queer, then yeah
>>28485904
Valmets were pretty much made foremostly for the local needs (=for FDF), the company being literally the "Government's Metal" (Valtion Metalli). This was to make the Finnish armed forces more self-sufficient and also bring more work into the Finland.
The export thing was a very late idea, which unfortunately wasn't given enough attention in the end either. Some theorize that the fragile "neutrality" of Finland kinda wanted Valmet as well to minimize sales to either side of the Cold War.
That being said, Valmets and Sakos are more robust than Galils, no matter that they copied the overall design.
>>28485924
You literally gotta look them up used pieces nowadays. No new RK rifles have been made since the 90s, and the ones floating around do cost a lot. You do get a total Cadillac model "AK" though.
>>28485960
>Why does everyone thing an AR would fair poorly in the cold?
Because numerous tests, official military ones and civilian magazine ones like >>28483656, say just that.
>There's parts of the US that are colder than anywhere in Europe
Things can get just as cold in Finland during winter as in northern Alaska.
>I don't understand what exactly is going to fair badly in the cold?
Metal mechanism literally freeze shut. Tighter fit only makes things worse.
>Proper lubrication won't freeze
An AK does not need lubrication. And in case of extreme cold temperatures (like -30C or less), FDF literally uses kerosine.
>and an AR has tight chamber tolerances that keep things out of it.
Yet if and when something DOES get into the gun, it's gonna fuck it up hard.
Like said, AKs and RKs are made to be as simple as possible to use and maintain, and that's the exact type of rifle a conscript military lurking in the woods many weeks at once needs.
>>28485233
Have you considered mounting it slightly forward on the handguard?
>>28486068
No rails, and the quadrail is expensive and makes the already-weighty rifle even more heavy.
>>28486129
I meant more of a DIY hack mounting it on the original plastic piece.
>>28485985
>Popularity != quality.
Except it is. If a weapon is seen as being of quality and fits the bill, people buy them.
>>28486032
>Valmets were pretty much made foremostly for the local needs (=for FDF), the company being literally the "Government's Metal" (Valtion Metalli)
So is IMI a government-run company. As well as Norinco and many others, but that doesn't stop them from exporting.
>
That being said, Valmets and Sakos are more robust than Galils, no matter that they copied the overall design.
Literal bullshit.
>>28486265
>Except it is. If a weapon is seen as being of quality and fits the bill, people buy them.
Except if it isn't being sold, dumbass.
>>28486129
>>28485233
See if an Ultimak gas tube rail can be adapted.
Otherwise look at an RS Regulate Sidemount, they are the lowest.
>"best raifu"
>that fucking grip
>2016, the current year
loling tbqh
at the top, along with the galil
>>28486322
I did look at those, and the problem isn't the mount itself- it sits pretty low on normal AKs. Problem is that the rail on Sako sits higher than on normal AKs, so even a low rail will be high on the Sako. The side rail itself is also different, requiring some machining to make it fit.
And AK handguards don't work at all, there isn't a rear sight block on Valmet/Sako pattern rifles, and the gas tube contacts directly with the dust cover.
>>28484979
> This triggers the Soviet
>>28486032
>Why does everyone thing an AR would fair poorly in the cold?
>Because numerous tests, official military ones and civilian magazine ones like >>28483656 #, say just that.
That test only studied one specimen per rifle. Also it is not known if the lubricants used were gun specific or not.
Canada found the Diemaco ARs just fine in cold. So does the US military in Alaska where they do cold training.
The older US military tests were skewed to make the gun look bad. I'm talking back when there was still a lot of support fir the M14.
>There's parts of the US that are colder than anywhere in Europe
>Things can get just as cold in Finland during winter as in northern Alaska.
Yes. And ARs run just fine alongside AKs.
>I don't understand what exactly is going to fair badly in the cold?
>Metal mechanism literally freeze shut. Tighter fit only makes things worse.
Not exactly. It't not really the tolerances that are the problem, it's got more to do with form of the carrier and the bolt. RKs have rather tight tolerances (at least they used to have when they were new) and they run fine.
Both AKs and ARs do good as long as you don't put fucking motor in there in the cold.
"Muh reliability" is not an excuse to have a loose gun. Look at Suomi KP/31. Tightest open bolt SMG ever created but also reliable.
Getting your rifle frozen shut is as likely with both. All you need is to be a retard and bring it into a warm tent with you. Both can be fixed easily: mortar clearing or stomping.
>>28486363
bummer.
>>28486032
>Proper lubrication won't freeze
>An AK does not need lubrication. And in case of extreme cold temperatures (like -30C or less), FDF literally uses kerosine.
Any usable cold-temp lube is good for ARs, too.
Not using lube at all in the cold is a mistake, but using too much isn't good either. This applies to both rifles. A really thin layer will make sure ice doesn't form too easily and if it does it'll be easy to break off.
>and an AR has tight chamber tolerances that keep things out of it.
>Yet if and when something DOES get into the gun, it's gonna fuck it up hard.
If something gets inside the goddamn chamber your gun WILL malfunction no matter what.
Shit in the actual action of the gun, I'm talking locking surfaces, will also cause a malfunction. Unless your gun is very, very much out of headspace.
Sprinkle some sand or shit on the actual locking surfaces and you'll see.
>Like said, AKs and RKs are made to be as simple as possible to use and maintain, and that's the exact type of rifle a conscript military lurking in the woods many weeks at once needs.
I don't see how an AK is that much simpler compared to an AR. The part count on field strip isn't that much different especially with captive pins. The maintenance procedure is about the exact same already taught in the FDF.
>>28486497
>That test only studied one specimen per rifle
Are you seriously trying to imply that out of the 12 rifles tested, 4 AK derivates worked 100% flawlessly and all the other eight (8) had unlucky defective models send to the test. What are the odds...
>Also it is not known if the lubricants used were gun specific or not.
You didn't even read the article then, did you? No lubricants were used, the whole point of the test was to asses how the rifles could stand up to the extreme cold combined with the worst case abuse that officers tend to put their raifus through
>>28483498
>some Americans want authentic Russian shit only
>authentic Russians just want American shit
>they will spend hundreds on tapco just like we spend hundreds on zenitco
>>28483897
Have u ever even held an AR
>>28486774
No, I meant that as a sample size it wasn't very sufficient given that militaries that operate in arctic regions have adopted the rifle just fine.
And no, I didn't read it as I assumed it was thart other test report from the 70s(?) that has been posted a lot now that ForgottenWeapons and InRange got a bunch of AK fags butthurt. My bad.
I still maintain that ARs are as reliable as AKs and I, still, base it on experience, accounts from people with more experience and various militaries using it for arctic stuff.
>>28486606
I use Stihl Arctic synthetic bar and chain oil to lube my ARs in the winter (Lucas Gun Oil the rest of the year), works great, even at -40° and lower.
>>28486965
Hmm.. I gotta try that on my shotguns. Goddamn Auto-5 stops cycling at -20c with regular oils.
Forgot to add here >>28486932 that I am not claiming that the AR is more reliable in cold. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that it's reliable enough to the point where it doesn't make a big difference.
If only the performance in cold was to consider, the AK has the upper hand. Here's a quiz: why is this? :D (pro-tip, it has nothing to do with tolerances).
But in practical terms both rifles are reliable enough in cold, given that you don't freeze them up (this can ve resolved with both rifles in seconds, though).
In overall reliability AR and AK are the same. I'm talking all the mud, grit, sand, warer, cold.. Due to their characteristics both weapons have some advantages in different areas (AR fares better in mud and soggy shit, AK in sand) but both have a usable degree of reliability in all of them.
>>28486910
>have u ever even held an AR
>u
Yes, I have.
I still prefer the AK, and sturdy, robust guns in general.
>>28487648
Yeah. It sucks that ARs don't handle abuse.
https://www.full30.com/video/792345f389c60ee70a56a9eb11a54213
Oh wait.. That was an AR made of plastic?! And it held up when it was run over multiple times, beaten, abused and even the stock and the receiver was shot?
I guess it is a sturdy rifle after all. Even when it's made literally out of plastic.
Btw. in another video they do a 2-gun match with that rifle and take 1st place in one division.
