So rafale-chan has been just sold to the IAF. Is this deal another nail in the coffin for the PAK-FA or is that a separate issue?
Also suddendly between Egypt, India, Quatar and the FAF, Dassault has too many orders on the Rafale. I'm actually happy the sales are taking off (UAE is also very interested) as it's a great fucking plane, on top of it looking hot as fuck
Dumb me, forgot the SOURCE : http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/india-confirms-order-for-iafs-rafale-deal-with-france/articleshow/50443377.cms
>>28435595
You are such a faggot OP.
>>28435595
Faggot.
>>28435595
India's gotta be a fucking logistic's nightmare. Domestic, French, Russian, British, German, Brazilian, American, Israeli and Swiss aircraft.
>>28435690
Literally all of this. This on top of the fact that they somehow cannot manage to field a functioning service rifle. What the fuck India?
>>28435690
>>28435695
wut?
pretty much every military force on earth is a weird mix of foreign and domestic equipment. literally who cares?
of course india has a special handicap because they can't even into toilets, but that's a separate matter.
>>28435690
They seem utterly incompetent which isn't surprising.
Also Rafale is a QT.
>>28435690
Yeah! So instead of operating functioning planes they should buy into the best fucking plane ever that is not yet even operational cause U.S of fucking A because it takes of like a helicopter (still in development)..
Let's face it buying F-35s even before they're even ready is like pre-ordering a game from Brianna Wu.
>>28435703
>Russian Inventory
Russian and Soviet equipment. Barely an foreign.
>Chinese Inventory
Mostly moving to Chinese produces Russian jet's. Some Soviet stuff still in production. Few American helicopters
>American Inventory
U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A
>>28435669
>>28435674
The only faggot in this thread is you you samefagging bundle of fucking sticks.
Back to the topic:
Good for the Frenchies I guess, but still it must hurt a bit not to get the initial order, which was 100 + planes.
Anyway, from what it looks like IAF is gettting a boatload of plains anyway. What is their currents status? are they approaching he strenght of Russia/China and the like?
>>28435690
You don't understand how logistics works if you think this is an inherent problem.
Logistics are part of procurement contracts. I doubt any of the Western aircraft will pose a problem. It is ALWAYS slavshit that is the problem. IAF have never reported a serviceability problem with the Mirage 2000s, but they are always having problems with their Su-30 engines.
>>28435595
PakFA is dead. It is the same rehashed shit, and the IAF and RuAF know it. Hence the low orders. India won't purchase any until Russia can deliver their new engines that they promised would be ready by '2018'.
>>28435595
Will there be a designated shitting rafale?
>>28435595
Poor Russia was a joke coasting on sheer numbers of outdated shit in the 80s, let alone now.
At least they've found a good way to liquidate stock on top of Syrian heads.
India gets a bigger tech transfer with the Rafale.
They want to eventually roll out their own fighters.
>>28438264
Russians know how to pitch a sale. Too bad all the Russians that got good at it were imprisoned.
>>28438231
That's all of them.
>>28438128
Their air force is actually at their strategically weakest in its entire history. The vast majority of the IAF's fleet are ancient MiG-21s that they are retiring by the boatload. That's why India is so eager to find a replacement fighter.
>>28438283
What they need is engines tech. Otherwise they would already be flying lots of Tejas. I doubt Snecma is going to give it to them over 36 aircraft.
Also, funny thing is that despite having so many Russian aircraft, their indigenous 'Kaveri' engines are based on Western designs.
My country is fucking retarded.
I'm going to start a petition for the government to buy the F-35
>>28438327
I have a hard on for Indian stuff.
It looks really home-made and handcrafted.
I bet the Tejas cockpit is comfy as hell , I also like the INSAS, I don't know why,it has a nugget like appeal to it despite being g shit
>>28438327
GE has already approved tech transfer on F404's for the Tejas.
India has experience with EU/USA and Slavshit jet engines. they want to learn from GE.
>>28438310
Not true.
Majority of IAF is actually Air Superiority fighters with Su-30MKI and MiG-29.
What they need is a SEAD/DEAD strike fighter capable of multi-role, and then a cheap single engine interceptor.
For IAF it is going to be Tejas to replace all the MiG-21s and then the Rafale for a SEAD/DEAD multi-role strike fighter.
Don't know what they are going to do for their 5th generation fighters though. HAL AMCA is still on paper. Will be interesting to see how much help US offers in its development.
>>28438383
the PAK-FA doesn't seem worth the development, and I'm sure we will help India out with their own 5th gen development if they get a little more cozy with the USA.
India will be a great counter to the Chinese, we are already helping them with a true Supercarrier.
>>28438394
>India will be a great counter to the Chinese
If China is a paper tiger, then India is paper
>>28438459
Either way, it would be nice to have someone in the region to have carriers besides China, even if they are mostly used for shitting on.
>>28438459
Having swarms of your own warm bodies to toss at China's swarms of slightly better warm bodies is a good thing.
>>28438479
Theres no point for India to have a carrier(s?) when they're clearly going to be mauled in the first week of an open conflict with China. If the Chinese anti-carrier strategy for the Pacific Fleet makes the USN uneasy, I can only imagine how long India's ships stay afloat.
>>28438507
China can't project force outside of the SCS.
Once their noisy submarines leave littoral waters for blue ocean they will be sitting ducks for the P8I, purchase by India, and other ASW ships.
And they don't have the logistics to maintain their surface fleet. In fact the moment China goes to war with anyone the entire region will gang up on them, and crush them.
If Australia gets involved China is finished. Their navy buildup and strategy is being advised directly by the Pentagon.
>>28438507
Let India catch the first wave of ASMs, by the time the poop hits the pacific the USA will have locations of all the launch sites.
Are they getting the same tech transfer than with the 100+ deal though ?
>>28438564
36 is only for off the shelf.
A minimum of +90 Rafales manufactured locally will follow a few years later when more funds clear. Similar story with the Su-30MKI, which ended up at 272 total aircraft.
>>28438583
The engines coming from France?
>>28438583
So they are finally getting the whole package, more or less.
Good news for them I guess.
>>28438182
>You don't understand how logistics works if you think this is an inherent problem.
>Can't piss off combloc because they'll stop servicing your aircraft
>Can't piss of the west because they'll stop servicing your aircraft
>In a total war scenario you're building infinitely more different unique parts, stressing your logistics chain
>This is not a problem
Yeah I think its you that doesn't know what you're talking about, champ
>>28438638
India only cares about pissing off Pakistan and China, and they don't rely on either for parts.
>>28438595
Unknown as of yet.
Wait til India Republic Day in January 26. French Premier Hollandes will be there as a guest of honor.
Expect a large deal signed for 6 more French Scorpene class submarines, and also Rafale deal. Sum of both deals will be in excess of $10 billion.
>>28438638
>India pissing off the West
>India pissed off Russia
No.
>>28438547
This is so wrong but this is /k/.
>>28438684
Russia not getting any of the fat new contracts. And just last year the vatniks were screaming that France would never sign another military deal again after they pulled the Mistral deal off the table.
>>28438698
Well certainly not anymore, they can't afford to!
>>28438705
Thats why the French are coming in person to ink the deal with the Indians. Who else has as much money lying around to buy French shit? Its the perfect time to make this deal.
>>28438182
I think you're putting far too much faith into your token Indian serviceman. India is a third world shithole and I wouldn't trust their top engineers to change my car's oil.
>>28438182
You realize that picture actually shows several significant differences right? If you were implying that the Su-30MK and the Pak Fa are the same aircraft, that picture kind of sinks the argument. The air intakes and the wings especially look different.
>>28438705
It is not out of spite though.
Russian stuff just can't compete with the West in fair trials. Cheaper costs are offset by ToT, which are far more valuable for a nation trying to go full indigenous by 2030.
Russian Kilos are just no good compared to Scorpenes, and their MiG-35 is just the same 80s era aircraft with a new paint job. Same story for a dozen or so recent defence acquisitions.
'Armata' seems to be the only major development of equipment since the 90s, apart from missiles and nuclear submarines which are not for export anyways.
>>28435595
>Is this deal another nail in the coffin for the PAK-FA or is that a separate issue?
There are currently three fighter programmes in the IAF.
The LCA (light), MRCA (medium) and the FGFA (heavy).
The Tejas is the LCA, the Rafale is the MRCA and the T-50 derivative is the FGFA.
>>28438771
>Non S-shape inlets
>Exposed Engines
>Titanium Body
The 90s just called, and they want your shitty aircraft back.
>>28438780
>The LCA (light), MRCA (medium) and the FGFA (heavy).
For what purpose?
>>28438383
>A SEAD/DEAD strike fighter
The US doesen't really have one of those. We have F-16s that can be pressed into the role, and "eventually" an F-35 mountable HARM. The only aircraft which can really do SEAD well right now is the Tornado.
>>28438861
The only point that I was trying to make is that it looks quite different from the Su-30MK.
>>28438871
>For what purpose?
Its India, its surprising they only have three programmes running.
>>28435595
They should've ordered the JAS Gripen. A better plane overall and is more affordable. Gripen has received great praise for it's performance in Libya.
>>28438885
>What is a Growler
>>28438871
>Light air policing/interception
>Medium twin engine fast strike fighter for suppression/destruction of enemy air defense (SEAD/DEAD) and 'multirole' fighter
>Heavy Air Superiority and mobile command center fighter.
It is not really that much different than F-22/F-35 doctrine of USAF, just with an added extra cheap and spammable aircraft on the lowest end to take advantage of possible manpower superiority, and save money.
>>28438771
They extended the wing and the intake has a slight flare.
If you don't think the base airframe of the T-50 isn't the SU-27, you are fooling yourself.
>>28439007
You guys are trying WAY too hard.
My only point is that it looks quite different from the Su-30MK, based on the picture that >>28438182 posted.
I'm sure they both have some basis in the Su-27.
>indian military
lol
>>28438182
neat, both planes are pointy and have wings and engines
>>28438861
>Non S-shape inlets
radar blockers
>Exposed Engines
what does that even mean
>Titanium Body
and composites
>>28438459
I would say toilet paper, but that's not a thing there.
>>28439007
yeah in the same way that base airframe for f-22 is f-15
>>28439066
Sukhoi is using the same production lines and has no money.
RuAF and IAF have cut orders and are not interested. It doesn't take a genius to figure out PakFA is just more Su-27 rehash slavshit.
>>28439180
Russians cut orders because it's now clear that current engine is underpowered.
Indians are haggling to get a discount.
>>28439234
Indians said no to a 40% discount.
Thats not haggleing.
>>28438348
What do you expect from a country where people shit in the streets, and bathe in a sacred river-sewer-corpse-disposal-dump
>>28439242
Anything more than $0 is overpriced for the PakFA.
>>28438924
rafale was the first aircraft over libya. even before US cruise missiles cleared out the air defense.
swiss evaluation shown that rafale is a lot better than gripen and slightly better than eurofighter.
>>28439433
>Referring to the swiss trials
post
discarded
>>28439157
It doesn't have radar blockers.
The engines are exposed, look at the fucking 1/3rd backend of the plane.
It's less stealthy than the Raf.
>>28439453
To be fair the Rafale is still better than the Gripen though.
>>28439509
Highly dependent on requirements.
>>28439506
> It doesn't have radar blockers.
not yet. they'll have to redesign the intakes for production engines anyway so why bother putting them in
>The engines are exposed
i don't see any part of engine exposed except for the nozzles. have you ever seen a jet engine? it looks like this:
>>28439602
How the fuck are they going to redesign the intakes when it's going into production this year?
Are you ignoring the GIANT ass exposed metal heatsinks located on the back 1/3rd of the jet? That's a giant radar reflector.
>>28439602
>they'll have to redesign the intakes for production engines anyway so why bother putting them in
>still believing this fantasy
>>28439622
>How the fuck are they going to redesign the intakes when it's going into production this year?
it's going into production with engine 117.
production plane with the new engine (izdelie 30) is planned for 2020
>That's a giant radar reflector.
not from the front hemisphere for which pak-fa is optimized
>metal heatsinks
titanium body panels. composite and painted in the new prototype. see pic.
>>28439717
>it's going into production with engine 117.
Fucking lel
>>28439509
No, it's not and you know it. You also get the bang for your buck by buying Gripen.
>>28439717
>production plane with the new engine (izdelie 30) is planned for 2020
PakFA is dead then. Once they get new engines they will have to retest and re-certify, which will take another 3-4 years. By the time it goes into production 6th generation prototypes will be out.
>>28439896
Saab offered FULL technology transfer and local manufacturing for the Gripen to India, a better deal than was offered to Brazil, and they still rejected it.
>IAF modernisation plan: Saab offers Gripen fighter jets under 'Make in India' with full control
>http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/iaf-modernisation-plan-saab-offers-gripen-fighter-jets-under-make-in-india-with-full-control/articleshow/50253759.cms
>Saab is not only offering to set up a base here but also help in the development of aerospace capability for the next 100 years and partner in developing the next version of indigenous Light Combat Aircraft Tejas and the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), being developed and designed by Aeronautical Development Agency.
Gripen must not be that advanced compared to the Tejas, if India is not willing to accept a 100% indigenization, technology transfer, and 100 year future assistance in aerospace. That is practically the equivalent of selling the entire aerospace division of Saab to India. Not all is well with Saab it seems, Swedish Defense budget cuts perhaps?
>>28439896
Please leave the internet now.
>>28435595
>not just holding out a few more years for a vastly superior aircraft
>>28440012
that guy on the right has seen some shit.
>>28440042
>vastly superior
no, not really
>>28440042
>Massively behind schedule
>Enormous backlog of orders
>Not even given IOC yet
'Few years' is more like 2025.
>>28440003
Erieye is a nice solution for countries that need nice AWACS but can't afford E-2 or E-3. It's done well in export markets
>>28440336
But enough to sustain a full aerospace industry?
I have a feeling Saab realizes that it no longer has the cash to compete with cheap Chinese exports, and doesn't have the cash for a true 5th generation fighter. I think they are trying spin-off their aerospace sector entirely. Sweden is not a country that has the political will or budget to support an indigenous aerospace industry as sad as that may sound.
>>28440319
>Not in IOC
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-space/2015/07/31/f35-operational-marine-corps-joint-strike-fighter/30937689/
Do keep up, darling.
>>28439717
Russia claims it's going into production this year. Have they said otherwise?
>>28440400
you speak the truth, and it is sad
>>28440042
India wanted the tech transfer, they weren't going to get much from the F-35. They made the right choice, the Rafale isn't much worse than the F-35 tbqh.
>>28438231
PAK-FA
Pooing All the Kurry- Forcefully and Anally
>>28440471
this year with current engines
2020 with next-gen engines
>>28440319
Remind me when the Rafale is getting its first ever proper BVR missile that its EVER had, anon?
>>28440497
So they are making a completely new variant of it. 4 years after production started? Are Russians incapable of understanding basic economics?
Good thing they don't accurately report the costs of their military projects.....
>>28440592
no. they intended this from the start.
russians need a new plane yesterday but a fifth-gen engine for it simply cannot be ready sooner than 2020.
so they decided to go with an an interim engine for initial production phase.
the plane has a lot of room for growth designed into it. re-engining will require only minor adjustments to air intakes and no changes to airframe structure. things like flat nozzles and s-ducts are dreams of forum warriors. will never happen and are not even required.
>>28440699
It has absolutely zero growth designed into it if it does not have S-ducts.
They are not some fancy luxury. They are a pre-requisite for 5th-gen tier RCS.
Will the engines be modified to run on poo?
Shit there is like an abundant untapped fuel source.
>>28440739
not necessarily. pic related.
>>28440771
A completely sub-optimal solution that doesn't approach S-duct capability. Theres a reason pretty much the entire aerospace industry dropped them in favor of the latter.
Was there something else you wanted to share with the class?
>>28440699
Then why not just make more SU-35s until they could make a true clean sheet gen 5 jet?
Seems pretty fucking stupid. Now they are completely invested in a 4.5 gen product that no one wants to buy, even their own airforce.
>>28435716
No one suggested the F-35 vatnik
>>28440578
Why is that even important?
What matters is that India can get a ToT from Dassault and they can get their Rafales in a few years.
F-35 on current backlog and delayed schedule would take a near decade of waiting for other orders to be filled and there would be no ToT.
>>28440440
>http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-space/2015/07/31/f35-operational-marine-corps-joint-strike-fighter/30937689/
What matters is the F35A.
>>28441125
Just saying that the F-35 getting delayed isn't a huge deal when the Rafale can't even engage in BVR and will get swatted out of the sky by pretty much anything that can.
Nothing is 100% Pk sure, but you don't want to be playing "dodge the R77" when you can't do jack shit back.
>>28440869
>Then why not just make more SU-35s until they could make a true clean sheet gen 5 jet?
That is actually what the RuAF is doing. They cut orders of the PakFA and ordered more Su-35S.
You won't hear about it because the State controls and censors the media, but there is probably a lot of infighting between Sukhoi and the RuAF going on right now over PakFA orders.
>>28441151
Rafale will easily get the BVR missiles integrated well before the F-35 orders free up.
India is not an F-35 partner, and the order backlogs for the F-35 are well over +1000.
There is no way India gets the F-35 before 2020, even if they signed today. Rafale orders off the shelf can be finished by 2018.
>>28441254
>Rafale will easily get the BVR missiles integrated well before the F-35 orders free up.
Only been in service 15 years without one, whats another decade :^)
>>28441262
Meteor will be fully integrated by 2018.
ToT also means India can stick whatever Israeli or indigenous BVR missiles they want. That is probably what they are going to do anyway.
>>28440400
Maybe they can get a few of those Engineers and Doctors to work!
>>28441226
Good luck to them in making that new engine. Russia is REALLY behind in jet engine tech, so it will be interesting if they can produce a capable one by 2020. At that point Sukhoi should develop an entirely new airframe around it.
>>28441325
If Russia is behind, imagine India.
>>28441583
Does India even have an indigenous engine program?
China has dumped billions into one, and can only produce shit still.
>>28435595
And the Indians also ordered 200 Kamov Ka-226T helos with french 2G1 engines from Turbomeca. 400 hundreds engines, plus maintenance.
The frogs starts the 2016 export game strong. The Rafale is a very strong contender for the 80-something complement of fighter planes the indian air force plans to eventualy order, despite what they say publicly they certainly don't want to add yet-another model of plane to their laready diverse fleet, in addition to the development of their new CATOBAR 65.000 tons carrier project for the navy (if it ever happens, which is not a given) which could certainly use Rafale M.
>>28442024
That would make two other orders of 36 Rafale B/C for the air force plus one order of 36 Rafale M for the Navy, maybe 40. As much as i aknowledge their effort, the Tejas II is way too modest and i hardly believe the navalised variant of the Gripen NG will ever be developped. Unless they suddenly decide to buy American equipment (i do no believe it ever happened since at least 2000 for any meaningful combat equipment, as far as I can remember) the Rafale is pretty much the sole CATOBAR capable plane out there.
>>28438775
>Russian stuff just can't compete with the West in fair trials. Cheaper costs are offset by ToT, which are far more valuable for a nation trying to go full indigenous by 2030.
Not really. Pretty much most tenders won by Western stuff is when the Russians don't have a direct equivalent.
>>28438775
>Russian Kilos are just no good compared to Scorpenes,
Again like what I said above, pr. 636 lost out because they don't have an equivalent system to Scorpenes's AIP yet. Actually they do, in the pr. 677 however its shit. Its probably because the Russian AIP is pretty novel- instead of storing hydrogen in tanks onboard they just catalyze it from stored diesel fuel. Much better system than any other AIP out there since hydrogen tanks are pretty cumbersome themselves and pretty much every port everywhere can handle diesel but not all are equipped to handle hydrogen.
>and their MiG-35 is just the same 80s era aircraft with a new paint job.
hilariously you can not be any further from the truth. MiG-35s are, like the Su-35S fundamentally different aircrafts- pretty much the only thing retained is the shape of the airframe, and with mods at that.
>'Armata' seems to be the only major development of equipment since the 90s,
Again you're wrong. Armata was only started in 2010-11 when prospective projects from the 90s like Obj 195 were cancelled; ironically they were ready for production then.
>>28440476
What is even more sad is that Sweden will probably spin even this as some sort of victory for new Swedish "humanitarian" superpower. What ever that even means.
The cuckest nation on earth. But now I'll leave it as that since it's more of /pol/ subject.
>>28439180
>Sukhoi is using the same production lines and has no money.
Sukhoi doesn't have any production lines of their own- they just design stuff.
>RuAF and IAF have cut orders and are not interested.
For the RuAF its easy to cut something you never committed to in the first place, and for the IAF the PAK-FA is no concern if theirs- they are in for something called the FGFA.
>It doesn't take a genius to figure out PakFA is just more Su-27 rehash slavshit.
Dunning-Krueger effect in action gents.
>>28439242
>Indians said no to a 40% discount.
The Ruble devaluated by more than 50%, no surprise the Indians rejected a 40% "discount" when in actuality the Russians would just pocket the rest as straight-up profit in Rubles.
>Russians cut orders because it's now clear that current engine is underpowered.
underpowered in comparison to what? the type-30 engine because yeah it sure as hell is. In comparison to the rest of 5th gen engines it can hold itself just fine.
>>28435716
No it does the take off like a helicopter, they got that working ages ago. The F-35 is in great shape and honestly the only reason the Indians aren't buying is because no ones selling to them. That and they've been trying to cozy up to the U.S. but aren't on the level of buying arms from them, especially after the U.S. treated them during the Soviet Era. Also that comparison you made doesn't really fit. The thing's coming along smoothly, has already produced upwards of 100 models, the first foreign models have been shipped, and most importantly the B model, which you erroneously claimed was still in development, has already reached initial operating capability.
>>28439157
>neat, both planes are pointy and have wings and engines
The PAK-FA is clearly based on the Flanker frame. I don't get why anons get so defensive over this, its not like Flankers have a bad reputation.
>>28441226
>That is actually what the RuAF is doing. They cut orders of the PakFA and ordered more Su-35S.
Bull. Knaapo just concluded its 48 fighter contract and no additional planes were ordered by the RuAF- which is ok btw as they are going to be busty with foreign contracts next.
>You won't hear about it because the State controls and censors the media, but there is probably a lot of infighting between Sukhoi and the RuAF going on right now over PakFA orders.
again, another bull. the State practically bankrolls the entire thing so nobody can complain really; well its not their money at risk here so they can't.
>>28440784
>A completely sub-optimal solution that doesn't approach S-duct capability.
[citation needed]
or perhaps you know something the pros don't?
>>28439934
This isn't the US; retest / recert for Russia can be "she'll be right m8"; something that India's a bit annoyed with Russia about in fact (in regards to weapons certifying).
Just look at how they threw it straight into the MAKS and had it suffer compressor stalls on the ground.
>>28441125
F-35A IOC is in 8 months.
>>28443201
Radar blockers create (slightly) turbulent airflow for the engine, reducing the engine pressure ratio. S ducts don't put such harsh obstructions in the way, so if you design them properly, you have fewer losses / greater performance. That's why the F-35 and F-22 use them.
>>28442799
Wut? India just bought billions of dollars in Apaches and howitzer's.
>>28435595
this is the decade long MMRCA competition.
/k/ forgets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_MRCA_competition
>>28435595
POO IN LOO
O
O
I
N
L
O
O
>>28440319
>Massively behind schedule
Nope.
>>28444031
Compared to the original 1996 or 2001 schedule it is, but that was nothing more than a pipedream anyway that nobody else has been able to achieve in the past 20 or so years.
>>28435595
> POO IN HON
>>28442799
>No it does the take off like a helicopter, they got that working ages ago.
>take off like a helicopter
>what does STOVL mean
>>28444354
strictly speaking it can, however not with an operationally useful fuel/weapons load
>>28440400
How long do you think it'll be untill Dassault or Eurofighter GmbH approach them?
>>28444725
I don't think they want them.
Saab is looking to offload its aerospace division to someone in Turkey, Brazil, or India.
>Buy Rafale
>but as aircraft for their carrier
why?
>>28447352
Why not?
>>28447383
Because it's the best use of that aircraft and they can get rid of the bad MiG29.
>>28443381
None of the listed aircraft are using s-ducts.
Is that some weird /k/ meme? Or do people just don't know what s-ducts are?
>>28440592
>So they are making a completely new variant of it. 4 years after production started?
No. The new engines are unlikely to ever reach production. The PAK-FA is powered by the AL31 and always will be.
>>28440699
Izdelie 30 is a drawing on the back of a vodka bottle at this point and there's no money to make it anything else.
>>28439934
>By the time it goes into production 6th generation prototypes will be out.
I literally lol'd at this. You are more delusional than the Ivans if you honestly believe that. You will be lucky to have the F35 combat ready by then. 6th gen will still just be CG renderings and pipe dreams.
>>28447882
>No. The new engines are unlikely to ever reach production. The PAK-FA is powered by the AL31 and always will be.
holy shit mang you can see the fucking future- now predict the lottery numbers for this week or you're a faggot.
>>28447892
People don't get basic stuff like that the F-15 was in service when Star Wars A New Hope was released and will still be in service after Episode 9!
But yeah, the F-35 will only be in service for 10 years.
>>28447892
>CG renderings and pipe dreams
Just like 80 percent of future Russian projects?
I'm surprised they revealed their "new gen" ground combat vehicle platform.
>>28447958
>the F-35 will only be in service for 10 years.
You don't buy 2500+ of something and then only use it for 10 years. Even the US government doesn't have enough money to do that.
>>28442977
Slavboo here.
I don't get it either, it's not like there lies shame in sending the Flanker to the Gym.
>>28449279
>that reply
>to that post
Are you dumb?
>>28447892
>6th gen will still just be CG renderings and pipe dreams.
Prototypes will be out by 2025. Navy wants a replacement for their F-18 Super Hornets.
It has been spelled out very clearly in publicly accessible Congressional Reports. It is common knowledge and common sense that the only major air-frame in the Navy not being replaced by the F-35 would have an early replacement.
>>28435595
>Also suddendly between Egypt, India, Quatar and the FAF, Dassault has too many orders on the Rafale
Well, it's not American, and it's sold with "no strings attached". It's literally in the ad. Yes, there are ads about the Rafale in specialized magazines. The French have always been very honest and open about their planes, which is what used to have so many Mirages sell. Murricans and Russians got the overhand because their planes were cheaper, but now they're looking for reliable and dependable stuff, so they turn to the French.
Now the thing is, France didn't really aim to sell Rafales. They aimed to sell the Rafale itself.
I haven't checked those sales the slightest, but since the beginning, France aimed to sell all the R&D along with it, and help countries build their own Rafale factories so they can produce those themselves. They're not just turnkey planes, and a country could even use it as a basis on which to make their own planes. Hence the huge price.
I'm not sure how this enters in consideration of those sales, whether France changed its approach and started selling turnkey Rafales, or sticked with it which eventually had countries consider it, but either way it's one important point of it.
>>28435690
Look, when you're pooping in the streets, the concept of keeping things simple and clean goes out the fucking chamberpot.
>>28449761
Not to mention Rafale is only a small part of France's exportations in this deal (probably 6 Scorpène-class submarines).
>>28449761
Most contract seem to go with significant technological transfers these days, but except in the initial MMRCA contract it is mostly aimed at acquiring technological blocks, developing independant maintance and future upgrade programs it seems (with significant participation from Dassault, Thales and other french companies into these programs, up to 50% of the Indian contract value, for example, back to indian companies, which is not necessarily a bad thing considering the indian ambitions for future local projects), and further down the line integrating these technolgies into their own national programs. I don't believe any of the other current or near-future possible Rafale buyer (Egypt, Qatar, UAE, Singapore, Saudi Arabia) has any intention to build the planes, as far as I know, or even localy assemble them, even India seems to forget that and aims at developping a strong experience before their upcoming AMCA program.
I don't think either they're awfully worried about selling Rafale technological elements except for the most recent electronic warfare stuff, the plane itself is not that young and by the time all of this is mastered by India, France will probably be on its way with developping whatever happens after the Rafale.
>>28450588
>France will probably be on its way with developping whatever happens after the Rafale.
Hopefully they where already started on that and the plane finaly finding buyers gave Dassault the boost to kick the works into higher gears
>>28450930
There are alot of building blocks developped here and there in the wake of the Rafale mid life upgrade program, they have surprisingly strong experience in RCS reducing features, with the second largest radar echo chamber in the world (at least, a couple years ago). But at this point the reflexion is so much in its early stages they're wondering what the future of air force will vaguely look like, between manned and unmanned combat platforms, if a single omnirole aircraft is still an acceptable compromise or if they will develop several planes, etc.
>>28443201
>or perhaps you know something the pros don't?
The 'pros' being almost the entire of the military aviation industry, you mean?
Because they design aircraft with S-ducts
>>28451111
Well the post 2020 upgrade will definetly help with some of the biggest weaknesses of the Rafale, namely its poor BVR, and overall air policing capabilities.
As for the future, BAe and Dassault have joined their Taranis and nEUROn project into the FCAS, which should be some kind of stealthy and optionally manned aircraft. I just hope it will sail smoother than other European projects involving the French.
>>28435695
India is chronically incompetenet. It took them days to clear Pathankot airbase when it was attacked by four gunmen recently. They had a whole load of shitty "special forces" outfits trying to run things.
