Tl;Dr what is the best overall intermediate rifle cartidge
I know this may be beating a dead horse and the answer isn't black and white but which is the most effective round overall and with what type of rifle for best chances of killing someone in the fewest rounds possible. Of course with good shot placement
5.8x42mm DBP87
>>28401123
With good shot placement they will all kill someone dead. That is why militaries around the world use them.
>>28401123
7.62x39.
-big, heavy round
-good penetration
-works great out of barrels of all lengths
-cheap
you can use hollow point ammo for better flesh - damage, and good muzzle brake eliminates the already minor recoil.
>>28401123
7.62x45
If we're talking in terms of stopping power.
How about [s] intermediate [/s] and real fucking nato?
>>28401167
>muh stopping power
>cowadootie
a .243 hollowpoint will kill you as dead as a.308 and do it 1000+ fps faster, and it's not some wildcat load, so id go with that
It's a close tie between 7n6 and M855.
Both have nice flat trajectories, barrier penetration, and reasonably accurate.
>>28401451
>intermediate
Thats a full power round. So is .308/7.62nato
>>28401138
How do you figure? The only penetration and ballistic tests we have are from the PLA and they were manipulated
Its wound characteristics are pathetic as well.
.300blk with 110-125gr monolithic hps or bsps.
Yes I know it performs similarly to 7.62x39, but it does enough better from a shorter barrel and with significantly less recoil to be the clear winner.
Plus its versatile as hell
>>28401451
i prefer the .243 fuddpoint round myself
>>28401617
Alternatively 6.5mpc
>parent case is .223rem
>2800fps with 107gr smks from 20" barrel or 2200fps from 12" barrel
>less recoil than .300blk (supers), 6.5gren, and 6.8spc
>fits fine in all unmodified .223rem mags, not just stanag pattern
>effective to 700m from 12" barrel
>reduced muzzle flash compared to 5.56x45
>>28401643
Well as long as we are ignoring both the technical definition of intermediate round and all of the qualities that make them desirable, I favor the .416 Barrett myself. Since it provides horrendous wound channels with all bullet types and extreme accuracy to a mile and a half. Fuck weight and recoil and weapon size and cost.
>>28401643
>the fudd meme has fully overtaken /k/ as a result of euros posting
oh no
>>28401420
>Implying that's not a major factor
>Implying anything I use it on will be over 200 yards
>Implying I don't just like the round.
>>28401594
no, it isn't
>>28401738
>.308 is used in battle rifles and large game rifles
>.308 is ballistically identical to .30-06 in all factory loads
>.243 is a derivative of .308
>neither even come close to fitting in the action of any intermediate caliber rifle
Yes it fucking is, and dont even try to argue anything not a full length belted magnum is an intermediate.
>>28401773
>all this shit I typed is what an intermediate cartridge is
no dumbass, also you are really REALLY dumb if you think .243s are somehow too big to fit into an AR or anything like it
>>28401810
What. The. Fuck. .243win, aka 6x51, is absolutely not going to fit in an ar15.
>hurr but itll fit in an ar10!
So will .338 Federal, .45 raptor, .325wsm, .338rcm, 7mmRSAUM, and most other short magnums. The AR10 is a battle rifle and absolutely in no way fots the criteria.
>>28401773
8mm Kurz is quite literally a shortened case derivative of 8mm Mauser, does that make Kurz a full-power rifle round?
>>28401810
.243 isn't an intermediate cartridge.
>>28401843
>shortened
Therefor no.
.243 is not a shortened derivative of .308, they have the exact same length and case capacity.
>>28401123
5.56 can be loaded with some fantastic bullets for relatively low cost and is effective with those loads out to >500m. However, if we're just talking military loads mk262 mod 0 is breddy gud but 7n6 is fucking great. Merely on the virtue of there not being many quality 'high end' platforms for the 5.45, I'll give the edge to 5.56. <300 yards though an AK-74 will tempt me.
>>28401160
Try to hit something at 400 yards with that
>>28401773
>>28401810
>>28401836
/k/ is so easy to troll. Fuck you all
>>28401836
>aka 6x51
not only is it not known as that anyfuckingwhere on the planet, it's not even measured at 6x51, you sound like some tacticool mongoloid who moves the goalposts on shit you know nothing about
go google .243 upper. Wow, no way those could be real!
>>28401873
who the fuck are you
>>28401880
THE AR-10 IS NOT AN ASSAULT RIFLE
>>28401880
According to wikipedia:
>.243 Winchester
>case length: 51mm
>caliber: .243"/6mm
Following worldwide descriptor conventions, that would be....6x51. Just like 7mm-08 is 7x51, .308win is 7.62x51, .30-06 is 7.72x63, 7mm mauser is 7x57, and 8mm mauser is 7.92x57. Or .300blk being 7.62x35 or .223rem being 5.56x45.
>>28401910
so glad to see you can't read even when you go through the effort to google things
>>28401926
>according to wikipedia
that's your problem
>>28401880
>googled .243 upper
>only results are 6mm-233/6mm AR/6x45 (all the same round) and DPMS LR308/AR10 uppers
Youre so full of shit my phone is starting to stink.
6.8mm SPC
Fact ,not an opinion
>>28401123
it all really depends OP. whats the environment, how far are you shooting, if inna city and door to door scenario, i would go the route of 7.62x39 > 5.45 > 5.56. just because i own slavshit but no ars. just my two cents
>>28401936
We will kill you troll
>>28401957
Drops too much for my taste desu senpai
>>28401946
so you're shit at googling too? you could even go straight to the dpms site, Rock River has them too
Is this one turd really trying to say that .243 is an intermediate (assault)rifle cartridge?
>>28401965
Surely you aren't the legit sociopath psychopath ant-man are you?
>>28401969
FOR MOTHERFUCKING AR10S
Those do not fit on AR15 lowers. Jesus christ you are either the worlds shittiest troll or are so stupid its a miracle you remember to breathe.
>>28401974
are you the one turd really trying to say it's a full sized full power round?
>>28401986
no? You really really can't read, damn
>>28401974
Yes. And Im fairly sure he isnt trolling too. I think hes legitimately retarded.
>>28401873
i mean...someone DID make an AK out of a fucking shovel and outshot ar's at a competition, im oretty sure it was a 7.62 caliber one, either way i heard about it beating out ars at a shooting competition. dont have the sc as i am on mobile, and dont take my word for its performance, im a bit fuzzy right now
>>28401997
Fine. Provide a link to any manufacturer that sells a complete rifle or upper for the AR15 chambered in .243 winchester, a round whose brass alone is too long to fit in an AR mag.
>>28401965
feed him to your ants
>>28402009
Someone used parts of a shovel to make the receiver flat for an AK using a hydraulic press costing more than 50 high end AKs, yes. Another guy used the handle of a shovel to replace the stock on one, yes.
Ive not heard of either of those rifles being used in any competitions though
7.62x39mm if we're accounting for practicality. .300 AAC Blackout (7.62x35mm) is just too expensive and less available.
>>28401978
No you
>>28402009
>>28402046
Anyone can outshoot retarded faggots like op and .243 tard here. Just because it's a better cartridge/platform doesn't mean someone can't fuck it up so a shovel shoots better.
>>28402050
Do you even own an AR? 7.62 drops like soggy vag after 300 yards
>>28401997
Die you whore no matter where you are Well kill you
>>28402009
>take shovel blade
>smash it flat with $10,000 hydraulic press
>roll it to consistent and appropriate thickness with $250,000 production machine
>cut out receiver flat on $30,000 waterjet table
>bend receiver with $100 jig and $8000 floor press
>hay guise I maed AK from shuvel XDD
If that counts then I can claim I pade an hk33 from a ford fiesta and a refrigerator
>>28401997
POST. THE. FUCKING. LINK. Holy shit this is getting me heated just reading your conversation. You can't actually believe an AR-15 can take .243 Winchester right?
>>28402127
.300blk may drop like a rock, but it has little wind drift. Holdovers are easy, holdoffs for wind arent.
I know this is purely anecdotal, but once I figured out my dope chart my .300blk is easier to hit with at 500m than my 18" spr with mk262.
>>28402143
>implying implying
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/179192-DIY-Shovel-AK-photo-tsunami-warning!
>>28401123
I'd go with 5.45
>lowest recoil out of all 3
>great BC on any load
>low grade commercial 5.45 performs almost identically to mk262 mod 1 with the small difference of not discarding the jacket.
>works great for SBRs
>tapered
That being said I think pretty much any 5mm intermediate round is at an ideal spot. I do wonder if we could go down to 4mm and make it work.
>>28402376
>low grade commercial 5.45 performs almost identically to mk262 mod 1
>>28402396
Take a look at these 5.45 vids
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_Pf6-AqiA4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxtIDUdDLOE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db8XSKi7U7I
against mk262 mod 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPH1UpHlC9s
They have nearly identical BC for 7N6 and mk 262 and similar muzzle velocities.
>>28401123
.357 magnum
>>28402456
What about the other 5.45 loads, like 7N22 or 7N10? I never heard about any comparison of those with any other calibers. All I've really ever read about them is that they are more modern loads that can penetrate armor very well while at the same time tumbling around in the guts of the person in the armor.
>>28401843
.243 isn't shortened you stupid cunt, just necked down. A necked down full size case isn't an intermediate round.
>>28401810
Itll fit in an AR10, but an AR10 is a battle rifle, which chambers full sized cartridges. It will not fit in an AR15 action.
>>28402456
And this is why I don't give a crap about GT 545 ammo despite not having any desire to touch any other brand of 762x39.
It's shorter flat based bullet sucks at yawing compared to surplus or any 60 grain 545 with a full sized bullet and hollow tip.
>>28403763
no one here has gotten hold of the newer 7n6 rounds, so who knows
>>28401836
Dude! So since the criteria is AR-15 length magwell, are 50 Beowulf and 243 wssm intermediate cartridges?
>>28403836
That's my thoughts on the matter as well.
243 or 6.5 grendel
>>28401123
Late to this shit thread but here. It doesn't matter what caliber you choose, all three will do its job properly when you're close to a target riding his ass down and he will die if you do your part. Same goes with longer distances.
The key thing to take into consideration is the platform (excuse me). Do you like the ar15's ergos compared to the ak's? Then get a 5.56 or even a .300blk if you're that type of nigga.
You like ak's? Don't like the recoil or how 7.62x39 tends to punch through walls? Get a 5.45x39.
It would be awfully stupid to do mental gymnastics buying and learning how to use an ak which you don't like just because some retard on the internet said the 5.45 is duh poison boolit that can cut a man's arm off and go through tree tunks :^)
It's what you're comfortable with and what you can use efficiently. Pretty sick of these threads tbqh
>>28401420
A bullet yawing and ripping a small hole through them will do more damage then a bullet going clean through without hitting anything vital.
>>28404063
>just because some retard on the internet said the 5.45 is duh poison boolit that can cut a man's arm off and go through tree tunks :^)
But it does both of those things.
>>28403955
This kills the bolt
>>28404063
Op here, Pretty good answer. I have a WASR-10 and love it but have been wanting an ar-15 lately for ergonomics/attachments and I think I'll just own both, so I'll get an ar-15 later when I get the money.
>>28404380
Do it. Everyone should own at least one ak and ar
>>28404160
kills the x39 bolt that manufacturers were using instead of the specific grendel bolt they should have been using
>>28401594
Since when 8s 6mm considered a standard rifle caliber?
7mm-08
Grendel
>>28404669
I dont think you know what an intermediate cartridge means.
>>28401659
This.
Alternatively anything else in 6.5.
6.5mm is love, 6.5mm is life.
6.5 Creedmore, 6.5x55, 6.5-284 Norma, 6.5x47 Lapua.
My balls are tingling just thinking about all that 6.5mm goodness.
Alternatively .22-250 because its loud and fast.
>>28404756
Not intermediate dumbass.
