>dumping water on someone's face
Why do people bitch and moan about this "torture"?
>>28369084
I tried it with my neighbor. Fucking sucks ass. I'd rather take getting beaten with a bat anyday.
>>28369084
Because It simulates drowning you dumb fuck.
>has never been water boarded or been near to drowning
Have someone try it on you. Make sure you're lying back on an incline, and the shirt or whatever is already soaked.
I guarantee a little trickle of water down your nose, and you're gonna panic. Now try it with entire buckets of water, for hours at a time.
It's fucking unpleasant at best, horribly terrifying at worst. It can also be dangerous.
It's deeper than that.
You're blindfolded, and layed on a table that makes you feel "uneven" or "off balance", you're feet and legs are higher than your head, and your body might be slightly tilted to one side.
They don't pour water on your face. They pour it on a thick fabric covering your face. Porous enough that water runs through it, thick enough that it holds water. Every time you breath, water gets in your nose or throat. Involuntary reflexes kick in.
There was a reporter that thought "waterboarding" is no big deal, lol! I'll get waterboarded myself and record it!
He changed his mind quickly.
>>28369123
>simulates
Does saran wrap work instead of cloth? I heard the CIA uses it
Is it weird that i have waterboarding fetish?
>>28369143
This. Lots of people who thought it was "no big deal" got asked to have it performed on them. I think even some politician or official who supported it.
I wish I could find some videos. You should see their faces after like 15 seconds of it. Grave, pale, horrified faces. Now imagine HOURS of it a day.
>>28369159
I'm pretty sure you won't need the water.
>>28369146
Yes you retard. It simulates it. Do you not see your pic? The water is literally IN his throat and sinuses.
Your brain and body doesn't know the fucking difference, no matter how much discipline or steely nerves you think you have, faggot.
Seriously OP. Let a couple friends water board you. I hope they're cruel faggots like you, and don't respond to your safety word fast enough and you end up with PTSD because you essentially experienced drowning, without the dying part.
>>28369084
This is a navy seal, you would all break under this torture
https://youtu.be/y0SnqfFXc1k
>>28369176
It's not really common because no one really thinks about it. I know a few people who have done it just to try it. It's a good kick for a sadist to do because of how shitty it is for the bottom.
-bdsm anon
>>28369084
>dubious about efficiency of waterboarding
>stand in shower with cloth over face
shit, i'm gland i'm not a detained terrorist
>>28369084
http://m.efukt.com/21295_The_Sexy_Side_of_Waterboarding.html
Some people like it..... I think.
>>28369222
Yeah, but 16 year old OP would know nothing about it.
>>28369181
I can't imagine how bad this would feel.
However, I do have questions. Some people, like my mom, can't go underwater without holding their nose. I can shut off something there (I have no idea what it is), but it stops water from coming in. Would this help in this situation at all?
and furthermore - what the FUCK is it that I'm moving in my nose?
>hurr durr hours of torture
Sure is retarded in here
>>28369248
Funny thing is they went easy on him and didn't lean him back all the way.
>>28369234
Lol that's not even close.
The whole point is that the water enters your sinuses, but gravity prevents it from entering your lungs, not matter how heavy you're breathing.
If you did what you described, and it actually worked, you'd either be dead, or violently coughing up the water in your lungs. All you did was hold your breath or breathe into a fucking damp towel lol.
>>28369255
You can close your throat, but there's no way to stop it from entering your sinus cavity.
>>28369256
The fact that there's a reduced risk of death compared to other torture techniques means it can be done for extended periods.
So yeah, hours. Of torture.
Seriously, post a fucking video of you and your fatass man tit having friends water boarding you. You're gonna start crying involuntarily after less than a minute, I promise.
>>28369084
it was a favorite of the spanish inquisition.
>there pretty much only known for torture and murder
>>28369143
That was Mancow actually. TUUUUURD
>>28369292
thank you, this forced me to google a head anatomy picture to understand the soft palate control more, lol
>>28369245
>http://m.efukt.com/21295_The_Sexy_Side_of_Waterboarding.html
nice.
>>28369458
http://xhamster.com/movies/4018856/bdsm.html
Non efukt version. :3
>>28369084
Because any form of torture is:
A: Morally corrupt and bankrupt
B: Not just ineffective, but counterproductive
>>28369351
anon probably meant christopher hitchens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LPubUCJv58
>>28369222
>you would all break under this torture
Except that torture has been found to be a useless information source, since the "break" point pretty much only causes people to say what they think the torturer wants to hear, not anything useful.
>>28370480
>Not just ineffective, but counterproductive
KEK!!!
LOL, NO.
>>28370552
Keep lying to yourself.
>>28370480
It depends on the situation. If you have time to verify the suspect's answers without risk to yourself, or if you need information immediately and any information is better than none, yes it is a reasonable solution.
However, there are certainly better ways of extracting information, particularly when accuracy is critical, you have plenty of time for psychological methods, and people with training in these methods.
>>28369146
And it also blocks the air ways. You can't drown but you can still suffocate.
Also >>28369218
>>28369084
Have you tried it? No, you haven't obviously.
In order for it to work, you need a soaking wet bath towel to completely cover your head, to lay down on your back and have someone pour water on your face.
"I'll try to take a quick breath through the towel!"
Nope, the suction from your chest creates a vacuum like seal with the towel over your mouth. At this time the running water will enter through your nose and down the back of your throat.
Your brain automatically triggers that you cannot breath, but the presence of carbon dioxide in your lungs triggers breathing, meaning you're becoming hypoxic. Depending on how good you are at self control, this makes you get that uncontrollable panicked feeling in your chest.
Torture/interrogation like this doesn't work very well anyway, doing what the Germans did, taking you on vacation, treating you excellent and having a great time worked.
>>28369127
>Now try it with entire buckets of water, for hours at a time.
Confirmed for not knowing shit.
There was a leak a while back abut the rules and regulations they used at Git-mo. I have long since forgotten it but it was nowhere near hours at a time.
It was like no more then 15 mins at a time and no more then 2 or 3 times a week.
An hour of waterboarding a week is a small price to pay considering they were living in a shithole before and now have 3 meals a day catered to their religion and its desires, free heath care and their cell is likely 10 times better then the cave they lived in before hand.
All these pussies crying about getting some water dumped on them should read a fucking history book and learn what torture is.
Oh and yes i have been close to drowning before and i had some buddies waterboard me for shits and giggles using US government standards.
Yeah it sucked. but its nothing compared to what the dune coons will do to you.
>>28370512
That's only when the tortured doesn't know the desired information. Torture works wonders when your prisoner actually knows what you want to know.
>>28369146
Simulates, as in you cant tell the difference
>>28369084
Water boarding simulates drowning, which is a great way of saying it does drown you, but not really. Water goes into your lungs (i.e. fucking drowning) and your body panics as it should. To be able to withstand this type of torture you have to be VERY strong willed. The CIA were drastically impressed when a Taliban member lasted more than two, count them, TWO minutes. The average cave time is less than 30 seconds.
>>28371338
You know what has been found to be an actual effective form of interrogation? Making them believe that you are there to help them, that you are their only way out of the worst consequences they could have by being cooperative and providing the information. You use details about them to get them to open up, and you do it in as friendly a manner as possible. Torture has gotten no results, the above has.
>>28371718
Bullshit, none of the individuals put through torture in the GWOT has produced any intel of worth.
>>28371485
>Yeah it sucked. but its nothing compared to what the dune coons will do to you.
This is why I am not really that bothered by waterboarding
>>28371771
They caved, sure, but they didn't reveal anything valuable, unknown, or real, they just told the CIA what they wanted to hear to get them to stop.
>>28370552
Physical torture is somewhat effective to make the victim talk. However reliability of information obtained through these kind of methods is less then reliable.
Now psychological methods on the other hand show great promise..
>>28371813
Fuck you, never stoop to meet those morally below you.
>>28371815
Oh I never said the data was valuable, just how horrible it was.
>>28371828
I don't do it, and it is still nothing compared to what they do to make a blood-soaked and charred effigy to drag through the streets.
>>28371880
That still doesn't justify the US failing to take the high road.
>>28371816
Viktor Suvorov described the methods used by spetznaz to get information out of prisoners. He suggested that if you don;t think such measures are effective, have a friend write a number on a piece of paper and seal it in an envelope. Then start filing his teeth down until he tells you. I guarantee the information you receive will be correct, he said.
>>28371718 is correct. Which is why serious terror suspects are frequently shipped to our 'allies' in the Middle East.
>>28371880
A) That's not what an effigy is
B) You're a fucking moron
C) Torture is unAmerican
D) Kill yourself
>>28371912
Figured you'd show up to input your ignorant, rabid two cents.
>>28371345
If you don't breathe sure
Else it would be like a bong
You could put your dope in his nose and suck on his mouth it would be perfect
>>28369084
Go try it you stupid asshole.
I'll wait.
>>28369084
At least it's better to be waterboarded than to be tortured almost to deagh by antman the faggot king of ants
>>28372043
>death
I need to stop using my phone in work
The pain of drowning is that your lungs have a very thin lining that the water seeks through. The water enters inside your body through the lungs and floods into your organs which in turn begin to absorb the water.
When you are inclined the water just stay in your nasal cavity. It is like having a sinus infection. No biggie really.
>>28372067
the worst part of that fucking mental case is he took 3 fucking kids with him over there.
>>28370480
philosophy major detected,
>HUUUR DUUUUR TORTURE IS BAD AND AGAINST THE MORALS OF MODERN MAN, DONT TORTURE UNLESS YOU CAN JUSTIFY IT IN COURT :^)
>>28372251
Absolute shithead detected.
>HURRR LETS DO SOMETHING AMERICA HAS SUPPOSEDLY KNOWN WAS BAD SINCE THE WRITING OF THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE IT WORKS DESPITE ALL OBJECTIONS FROM FACT
>nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Torture is by definition an act of cruelty.
Now I'm not saying I could handle this at all but do you think the monks who set themselves on fire could deal with it? It takes a fuckton of will power to sit and meditate while you burn to death I think, so I'm almost positive they could keep their composure with simulated drowning
>>28373256
Hard to say. I've heard that they got a concoction to numb themselves for the fire. Breathing is more of an automatic process, based on the vacuum of your lungs. You can't really control that without massive training, and even the people are the greatest at it (extreme divers) eventually have to breathe.
Also, if someone smacks you in the gut just right, it can pretty much force you to break any breath control.
>>28373317
Fair enough, I forgot that they could just beat you while you're strapped to the table. As awful as it is in curious as to what would happen
>>28369292
I fill my sinus with water all the time (what is a neti bottle) while holding my head upside down.
I'm going to try this waterboarding thing next time I have a sinus infection.
>>28372022
This, but please do it correctly.
I'll be waiting with this guy.
>>28370480
No, torture does work. It's just a matter of what kind of torture is being used (stress positions versus a blowtorch and pliers, for example). If torture didn't work at all, organized crime and totalitarian regimes wouldn't be able to get information about spies and shit.
>>28374581
>No, torture does work.
Keep being full of shit.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/cia-lied-torture-methods-effectiveness-report-article-1.2044247
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/12/the-humane-interrogation-technique-that-works-much-better-than-torture/383698/
>If torture didn't work at all, organized crime and totalitarian regimes wouldn't be able to get information about spies and shit.
Holy fucking shit you're a disgusting excuse for a human being if you think anything they do is worth duplicating.
>>28374664
I didn't say it was morally acceptable you dumb fuck. And those sources are all about "enhanced interrogation" which is, like I said, an entirely different animal from "real" torture like tooth-pulling and sticking hot coat hangers up urethrae. Ever heard of the phrase "everyone breaks eventually"? It did not come from nowhere.
>>28371718
All tests to that concept say otherwise. Torture is useless and generates far more disinfo than anything
>>28372004
I'm fucking dying, 10/10 would kek again
>>28374764
"Enhanced Interrogation" is a fucking euphemism to avoid calling it what it is, buddy. It's torture. Period.
> Ever heard of the phrase "everyone breaks eventually"? It did not come from nowhere.
You keep missing the point that you're not likely getting anything useful from that. It's long been known that nothing "revealed" under duress is actually useful.
>>28373186
Torture is not by definition an act of punishment.
>>28375362
And the courts have repeatedly held up that torture falls under that classification of cruel and unusual punishment not allowed under any circumstance under the 8th amendment.
>>28371828
>Fuck you, never stoop to meet those morally below you.
waterboarding>>>>roasting people alive over trenches of gasoline so it's pretty damn hard to claim we're actually anywhere close to meeting those morally below us
>>28371912
oh man. thats fucked up.
>>28375470
They fall under the same moral classification.
In fact, waterboarding is worse because you're not trying to fool yourself about what the more brutal techniques are.
>>28375172
you dont think if somebody buried some treasure and they were tortured for the location, the torture wouldnt lead to the location? i can pretty much guarantee that it will 90% of the time.
it all depends on what type of information is being searched for. torturing some dirt squirrel for information about how his terror cell operates is not going to produce accurate intel.
>>28375736
>Justifying atrocity
>>28375743
its not justification. its just the reality of what will happen if said atrocity occurs. personally id just give them a bullet to the head if they dont want to talk.
>>28371485
>An hour of waterboarding a week is a small price to pay considering they were living in a shithole before
>80 American citizens
>living in a shithole before
>being this treasonous in a DoD monitored site
>>28375768
>Summary execution of a POW
Let the war crime hits keep on coming!
>>28375736
Not if they think that you won't ever stop, for possible new information.
>>28375172
Yeah, technically, but it's not the classic, brutal stuff that has been around forever and that people imagine when they hear the word "torture". And more importantly, it's easier to resist than the hard stuff, like I said.
>>28375847
Combatants that wear no uniforms and intentionally target unarmed non-combatants are not POWs and are not afforded their protections under international law.
>>28369084
Cause it mind fucks you. Ppl have even died from dry drowning from this crap too.
>>28376151
>It's OK because it's not what we normally call torture
>>28376175
>It's OK to not have standards of conduct and behavior
>>28369181
>>28369181
That's retarded, it's like saying if you support bombing ISIS then you have to have your homed bombed first to know what it feels like.
>>28372043
Stop bringing yourself up in unrelated threads, asshole. Nobody cared before, and nobody still cares.
>>28371779
>Making them believe that you are there to help them, that you are their only way out of the worst consequences they could have by being cooperative and providing the information.
That only works with normal rational people, not radical zealots who are willing to blow themselves up for their cause.
>Torture has gotten no results, the above has.
Absolutely false.
>>28369084
>mfw me and my drunk bros did this to each other
>mfw you can easily breath through the water
>mfw Al Quesadilla/faggots are a bunch of bitch niggers
>>28374664
>NY daily news
>the atlantic
Can you use non libtard propaganda please?
>Holy fucking shit you're a disgusting excuse for a human being if you think anything they do is worth duplicating.
Want to know how I know you are a philosophy major?
>>28373186
>nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
That only applies to American citizens you shit head. We tarred a feathered British civil servants all the time.
>>28376264
>Denying reality for the CIA fantasy
>Just give them milk and cookies and they will tell you everything they want to know!
Holy shit when did this board become infested with reddit tier libtards? Do you morons not realize that such tactics only works when you have a good cop/bad cop approach? Just giving someone free shit wont make them talk ever, but giving them free shit after being tortured will. It's simple logic fucktards.
>>28376276
>Still projecting because he can't justify performing evil acts
>>28376296
>IT'S OK TO BE EVIL IF THEY AREN'T ONE OF US!
>>28376316
>I love getting my knowledge of torture and interrogation from movies!
One major Al Qaeda detainee actually had his first breakthrough in interrogation because we provided him gluten-free cookies to snack on during a session, as he had Celiac's.
>>28375811
>80 American citizens
Less than 10 people were ever waterboarded at git-mo and none of them were Americans. Try and use some actual facts next time shithead.
>>28371828
>never stoop to meet those morally below you.
I agree, which is why we only water board people instead of pouring hot crude oil down their throat and attaching electric wires to people's nipples to get them to talk.
>>28376316
>doesn't know how people get brainwashed into joining cults
>>28375685
>They fall under the same moral classification.
Did your philosophy 101 professor teach you that?
>In fact, waterboarding is worse because you're not trying to fool yourself about what the more brutal techniques are.
Holy shit you just went full retard. I'm sure you will still be saying that after you have experienced what real torture is.
>>28376362
>Still trying to justify torture in any form
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/archive/Mancow-Takes-on-Waterboarding-and-Loses.html
>Asshole who used to think waterboarding wasn't torture tries it, admits with emphasis that it is
>>28376382
I love how you keep saying this as if, even if it were true, it invalidates the point.
Waterboarding is torture. Period. Pretending it isn't is morally, ethically, and intellectually. And there is no middle ground on this. It's either not torture, so why do it in the first place, or it is and thus a reprehensible, thoroughly un-American practice. There is no "safe, OK" form of torture.
But hey, You picked a perfect image to represent your opinion.
>>28376402
>Pretending it isn't is morally, ethically, and intellectually.
>Pretending it isn't is morally, ethically, and intellectually wrong.
>>28376402
http://m.efukt.com/21295_The_Sexy_Side_of_Waterboarding.html
Not him, but this vid posted earlier could be a middle ground :3
>>28376476
It's not really torture if the sub can end the scene if it gets intolerable.
>>28371912
>injuring the area where speech comes from
>>28376229
not to mention the entire purpose of torture is to be uncomfortable
Hey whats up guys I didnt read the thread lmao
>>28376747
>not to mention the entire purpose of torture is to be uncomfortable
Well, that's the understatement of the decade.
>>28376208
Im suprised you havent gone full retard and compared to Nazi Anti-ressistance in the balkans
>omg i bet if someone did that to u that would NOT be cool
topmeme in this thread
>>28376779
The point is that it's not cool and counterproductive to do it to anybody.
>>28376813
What if im a sick twisted fuck who likes torture?
>>28376779
>torture does not work
Actual top meme of the thread
>>28371750
It IS drowning.
>>28376271
Sucking each other's cock is not waterboarding, Yuri
>>28376970
I think it isn't technically drowning since water doesn't go into the lungs
opposed to suffocation which is just depriving someone of oxygen
>>28374796
Post these tests
Interrogation as a means of gaining a confession is quite obviously flawed for the reason you pointed out and most criticism of its efficacy is based on this.
As a means of intelligence gathering in conjunction with other techniques it is quite effective, that it's morally repugnant doesn't make it any less so.
>>28377158
>Interrogation as a means of gaining a confession
Torture, not interrogation.
>>28372067
Top fucking kek.
Respiratory Therapist here. Confirmed for you knowing jack shit about the respiratory system.
The only way to push fluid into the lung and into the pulmonary arteries is with increased levels of positive end exploratory pressure (PEEP) and a high Inspiratory Pressure.
This is why we throw people with CHF on BiPAP machines; it pushes the pleural edema back into the body and administer diuretics so they can pee it off.
And guess what? That doesn't hurt, you fuck stick.
>>28370499
The music is not bad. Does it serve a purpose?
>>28370480
>Not just ineffective, but counterproductive
Lmao this retard
>>28371816
>However reliability of information obtained through these kind of methods is less then reliable.
>You lied to us mr Smith
>prepare your angus for another waterboarding session
It's that simple.
>>28372067
I've had Sinus infections so bad I wanted to die.
>>28376958
>>28377158
>>28377568
>>28377583
ITT: Medieval halfwits who actually think torture is good.
>>28377935
Nice rebuttal, sure showed them.
>>28377935
Nobody is argueing if it is "good", the arguement is if it works.
>>28377935
The point is: no torture at all can be reeeeaaaly worse than some torture.
Sure, you psychopathological serial killer that want to chocke you to death with his own hands didn't had to live mean things, but millions of people are now dead or living in fear of death, rape, actual torture and all the fucked up things that can come to a mad mind.
>>28378057
No, because it depends on 1: An assumption that the subject knows what you think they know and 2: The subject will say the information you want to know rather than whatever you want to hear.
Torture has no other consequence than misinformation being delivered, because the subject will always, always, always say what you want to hear to stop the pain rather than actually give you information.
>>28378084
This, this, a thousand times this.
>>28378084
This is why it is used as part of a more complex persuasion scheme. You can give him good or bad things. If you know that he have an important information, the simple fact that you can make him live hell is very persuasive. It is also the only thing you have against the people that say nothing at all because they don't want to be trapped in a constructive discussion. You don't know if what they say is true or not, but you usually can check and even if you don't at least, now, he is speaking to you.
No one "just torture people until they say something", probably not even the cartels.
>>28374849
Printing this on some high quality paper and giving it to my gf this year. Thanks anon
>>28378084
Everything you just said about torture applies to normal interrogation.
If they do know something, they will spill it to get the pain to stop, logically, if you belive what you said if they dont.
>>28378340
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/05/interrogation-experts-from-every-branch-of-the-military-and-intelligence-agree-torture-doesnt-produce-useful-information.html
Army:
>“Experience indicates that the use of force is not necessary to gain the cooperation of sources for interrogation. Therefore, the use of force is a poor technique, as it yields unreliable results, may damage subsequent collection efforts, and can induce the source to say whatever he thinks the interrogator wants to hear.”
CIA:
>Intense pain is quite likely to produce false confessions, concocted as a means of escaping from distress. A time-consuming delay results, while investigation is conducted and the admissions are proven untrue. During this respite the interrogatee can pull himself together. He may even use the time to think up new, more complex ‘admissions’ that take still longer to disprove.
>Many governments that have routinely tortured to obtain information have abandoned the practice when they discovered that other approaches actually worked better for extracting information. Israel prohibited torturing Palestinian terrorist suspects in 1999. Even the German Gestapo stopped torturing French resistance captives when it determined that treating prisoners well actually produced more and better intelligence.
Wow, so many weapons being discussed. What a cool board.
>>28378469
Air Force:
>In addition, torture and abuse has made us less safe because detainees are less likely to cooperate during interrogations if they don’t trust us. I know from having conducted hundreds of interrogations of high ranking Al Qaida members and supervising more than one thousand, that when a captured Al Qaida member sees us live up to our stated principles they are more willing to negotiate and cooperate with us. When we torture or abuse them, it hardens their resolve and reaffirms why they picked up arms.
>>28378480
Navy JAG:
>Fundamentally, those kinds of techniques are ineffective. If the goal is to gain actionable intelligence, and it is, and if that’s important, and it is, then we have to use the techniques that are most effective. Torture is the technique of choice of the lazy, stupid and pseudo-tough.
>Another objection is that torture doesn’t work. All the literature and experts say that if we really want usable information, we should go exactly the opposite way and try to gain the trust and confidence of the prisoners.
>>28378469
Those just say other means are more effective. (CIA is most relevent, other less so due to lol politics. Keep in mind both the army and CIA tortured for info)
OP here, second post in this thread, this is entertaining.
I knew this would lead to shit flinging
>>28378644
>Torture is the technique of choice of the lazy, stupid and pseudo-tough.
>>28371799
BACK TO REDDIT
>>28371815
He didn't drown so good.
Who wants to try next?
>>28378848
See >>28378469
It's pretty much the universal opinion of experts that torture not only is completely ineffective at extracting useful information, but in fact wastes time and resources and is one of the greatest recruiting tools of our adversaries.
>>28378696
I bet you did, you plastic-eared fuckjaw.
cock meat and I can withfsdddddd
>>28378822
>says JAG
No shit.
CIA says lol no torture guys, ITS BAAAD, yet what do you know, they do it.
Actions speak louder than words.
