Finnish M39 "Sneak"
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
Classic has these, and I took the bait and bought one. It's supposed to be 1960-1980 mfg, and in new / un-issued condition.
There are theories I saw online that Tula made them.
Did I mess up, /k/?
>>28362114
>Tula made them.
Why would Tula make rifles for the Finns?
>>28362132
The narrative was that there was some kind of pissing match between the Finnish government and Sako. And it was after the Belgian contract ones were already done.
>>28362132
Lurk moar newfag.
Finnish mosins literally all have Russian captured receivers.
>>28362143
Then they'd just make them at Valmet.
>>28362150
Could be, but these have zero maker marks on them. If it was a Valmet, you'd think it'd be stamped.
>>28362114
Its an M39, I'm sure it will still make you happy. If you don't buy rifles to shoot why do you even bother?
>>28362144
Rifle =/ receiver.
>>28362170
I do buy them to shoot. And popping the cherry on a "new" M39 is a nice way to do that.
>>28362114
>not buying an unissued B barrel
>>28362157
Could also have been made at one of the Army's depots. That's where all the "Tikka" rifles were actually built.
>>28362182
Then relax, no matter who made it, chances are it will still be a great shooter! At least that's how i view this sort of thing. My VKT may be a bit warn but it makes me happy at the range and I think that's really what counts when it comes to C&R stuff.
>>28362189
>B barrel
>buying inferior .3095" bore
.310" masterrace.
>>28362222
>implying it makes that much of a difference
>implying you cant shoot the same ammo through both
>not buying the more valuable option
>>28362221
>Then relax, no matter who made it, chances are it will still be a great shooter!
I think that's built in. I was just curious what /k/ knew about these.
Round receiver, BTW.
I have two 91/30's that I'm gonna consign at my local fun store, to pay for this new M39.
Once you go Finnish, the Ruskie stuff gets the garage sale treatment.
PL marked straight stock 1941 SAKO. GOML.
>>28362114
Stop calling them "sneaks." It is retarded. They were made by the Finnish government in the 1960's and 1970's.
>>28362262
m/39's with round receivers are quite rare and are worth double or more the value of a normal m/39. Just FYI.
Is the whole "plum barrels are far more valuable" thing bullshit?
I'd rather have an entirely black rifle.
>>28362174
The functional part of the rifle is the reciever. This is what OP was talking about being "Tula manufactured".
>>28362114
>It's supposed to be 1960-1980 mfg
M39s were manufactured up till the 80s? When did production finally stop?
>>28362114
>no pre-1899 receivers
It's strange they didn't make that an option. I'd be willing to pay $50 over the regular amount, FFLs here charge more anyway.
>>28362634
Kind of. People like rifles that look cooler, and the plum colored barrels look a little cooler. Most all B barrel m/39's have that tint to the bluing on the barrels though. There may be a slight premium for the plum colored barrels, but it is very small.
>>28362634
I mean the plum is pretty dope. i think the unissued with hang tags are still in stock.
>>28362749
Black B, plum B or 60's model?
cant decide
>>28362614
"Sneaks" was just borrowed from what the seller was calling them. Not my words. That's why it got quotes around it.
>>28362792
I went with the newer round receiver stuff. A round receiver M39 is like "Wait, what?!?"
>>28362649
Of course they used Tula receivers; they used receivers from every factory including Chatellerault, Remington Arms, and New England Westinghouse (and their numerous sub-contractors).
>>28362792
plum b do it.
Would it be a waste to just go for the plain $350 VKT Option on these? Like, I really don't feel like the extra $100 would be worth it for the B Barrel?
>>28362834
Where did you see those?
>>28362891
If you want a decent M39, do it.
It's gonna be so far past any 91/30 you can buy. It's entry grade.
You'll be back for more though.
>>28362903
Classic has them now.
>>28362914
But a simple M39 is always so far ahead of a 9130 anyway, What's the huge deal between a B Barrel and the run of the mill M39?
>>28362687
They get separated and sold for 500 to 800 to collectors like me.
I have several pre-1899. I put one in an archangel stock.
>>28362964
That gets into collector preferences / values.
Voodoo stuff nobody can explain, but people will readily argue over.
>>28362989
So with shootability it really doesn't matter? I had a feeling. Thanks.
so how much would one of these be? 300 dollars? been thinking about maybe getting something like this or a swiss k31 or something.
Is it worth it to get the SK. Y marked M39s? It's a bit of a premium, but I always hear people talking about them.
>>28362792
The 1960's ones are the best shooters.
>>28363081
A decent M39 is gonna be $350+. It's worth it though, AFA that or a 91/30. They're levels past your average crate Nugget.
>>28363318
How do M39s compare to, say, a mauser or an enfield?
>>28363314
Yo nuggie, question since you're here.
I sifted around in 7 crates and found a triple MO dated tula with a hex receiver and laminate stock. Everything matches, no counter bore and import mark is tiny and near muzzle.
What's it worth?
>>28363392
it's still a M91 derivative. if you like the cock on open, straight bolt, and sight picture (m91 style rear leaf, blade front) then the added benefit of a pistol grip stock, longer length of pull, shimmed/tuned barrel, reduced recoil (gun weighs more and shoulders better), and excellent trigger will not be lost on you.
everything that is bad about a 91-30 (muhrecoil, short slav manlet stock, too heavy to be light, too light to be heavy, shit trigger) is fixed in a finnish mosin variant. It holds it's own against mausers, springfields, and enfields with the added benefit of sending quarters, not dollars down range with each pull of the trigger.
>>28363404
I'm not really up on current values as i haven't been collecting that actively this year. I'm not much of a collector of post-WWII refurbs anyway. Checking closed gunbroker auctions is usually a good idea to get a rough value estimate.
>TFW you haven't bought a gun in over 6 months
>>28363503
excellent summary, only its getting closer to half dollars per round these days
Few facts:
As noted Finnish industry never made receivers for Mosin-Nagant rifles. Finland declared independent in Dec 1917, had a Civil War in Jan - April 1918 and in year 1919 selected Mosin-Nagant infantry rifle m/1891 as standard issue for Finnish military. The decision to standardize in Mosin-Nagant m/1891 was made simply because it was clearly the most common rifle in Finnish inventory at that time (there were about 200,000 m/91 rifles in inventory at that time). Finland also bought about 173,000 additional Mosin-Nagant from other European countries by year 1941 and captured maybe about 100,000 Mosin-Nagant rifles from the Soviets during World War 2.
While Finnish military started as Mosin-Nagant m/1891 as its standard issue rifle in 1919, the Finns also started developing improved versions of Mosin-Nagant rifle in 1920's. Early Finnish-made rifles had German and Swiss-made barrels before Finnish industry started making them in mid - late 1920's. As mentioned receivers were never manufactured in Finland - it was the most expensive and most complicated part to manufacture, hence a decision was made to use recycled receivers instead. Also grand majority of bolt parts were old recycled parts. Finnish-made new rifle models had new barrels, stocks, sights, improved triggers and improved (fixed) magazines.
Finnish developed Mosin-Nagant rifles:
- 7.62-mm infantry rifle m/24 (for Civil Guard)
- 7.62 mm infantry rifle m/27 (for Armed Forces).
- 7.62 mm cavalry rifle m/27 rv (for cavalry units of Armed Forces)
- 7.62 mm military rifle m/28 (for Civil Guard)
- 7.62 mm military rifle m/28-30 (for Civil Guard)
- 7.62 mm military rifle m/39 (for both Armed Forces and Civil Guard).
In addition also old infantry rifle m/1891 was manufactured in Finland in 1920's and returned to production during World War 2 to use existing (recycled) parts as efficiently as possible.
More to come...
More info:
Both Tikka(koski) and VKT (State Rifle Factory, later known as Valmet) were basically just barrel manufacturers. Finnish Army weapons depots assembled rifles using the barrels that they had manufactured. Sako on the other hand manufactured not only barrels, but complete rifles.
Rifle m/39 was the last and best of Finnish bolt-action military rilfles. It was manufactured from late 1940 to circa 1973 - although real mass-production ended in 1945. It has one of the best iron sights ever developed for a a rifle, originally designed by Harry Mansner and introduced with rifle m/28-30. Rifle stock is sturdier than in any other Mosin-Nagant rifle, trigger is 2-two stage improved design and (fixed) magazine with Finnish "jamb-free" modification for additional reliability. The rifle has two sets of attachment points for rifle sling to allow two more comfortable carry.
Original sights of Mosin-Nagant m/1891 have V-notch in rear sight and sharp bead in front sight - while all Finnish-designed rifles have U-notch in rear sight and larger square-shaped front sight bead - hence sight picture is quite different. What makes sights used in m/28-30 and m/39 so much better is that they have very precise settings, which allow zeroing in the sights in very exact manner.
If I want to go full Simo Hayha tier, what do I need?
Suomi M31?
Which version of the Finn rifle?
>>28364820
Hayha used a Suomi Kp/31 and a Finn M28/30 Mosin.
>>28364820
>Deep into Nugget knowledge, this thread is.
>And not the ones the poorfags love
>>28362792
I'm torn as well between an unissued sneak or an unissued plum b barrel. I guess I'll have to see what's still in stock by the time I get home from work and decide that way.
how much would a tiger stripe finn cost me?
that's honestly the only nugget I would want
>>28362132
We finns had a shitload of old russian rifles to begin with so we just made some modifications to them and voilá m29 and m39 were born. Many were made from the scrap by Valmet (=valtion metalli eng. Government metal) but many were just mosin nagants modified to meet the finnish army standards.
>>28364820
>be russian soldier during winter war
>comrades start dying around you
>cyka blyat
>this guy appears from behind a snow wall and starts singing the trololo song
>>28362772
Plum is sexy as fuck. My Long Branch No4 Enfield has a plum bolt-head.
I think more rifles should have plum, it does my dick good.
I'm a little depressed, just ordered standard VKT with hand select option other week, gonna pick it up this weekend. Should I be insecure? I guess I saved more with that option, but these are unissued damnit.
>>28367388
I got a hand select VKT from classic recently its great. numbers matching, wartime stock.
the unissued are cool but as the name suggests they never saw any action.
>>28365033
>not an early-production m/28-30 with the m/28 front sight
For shame. Burn your skinny jeans immediately.
Correct - what is known Simo "Simuna" Häyhä had early m/28-30 with m/28 type front sight as his primary weapon. He had used the particular individual rifle for quite a few years already before the war and was very familiar with it. When needed he also used loaned Suomi m/31 submachine gun. During the war (the photo showing him with two rifles was taken in that event) he received a rifle semt to him from as a prize from Sweden - that rifle was "normal" m/28-30, but he did not use it. He also tested captured Soviet sniper rifle (m/91-30 with PE or PEM rifle scope), but did not like it because the rifle scope required raising his head higher (which would have made his easier to spot).
>>28368301
>he did not use it.
Maybe not during the war, but he did use it.
Yes - on that post-war competition named after him. The rifle that Simo used during Winter War disappeared during the war and have not been seen since. The m/28-30 that Simo received from Sweden during the war is now in Military Museum (Sotamuseo) in Helsinki.
Some-one asked what makes B-barrel special. B-barrels used in rifles m/39 were barrel blanks bought from Belgium during World War 2 and they were originally intended for Mosin-Nagant infantry rifle m/1891, but very little of them were used for that purpose before the Finns stopped manufacturing of infantry rifle m/1891 in year 1944. Since they were brand spanking new and no longer needed for original purpose, grand majority of them was shortened to m/39 rifle barrel specs in post-war era and used to built rifles m/39. Since m/39 rifles with B-barrels are post-war on average they tend to be in notably better shape than wartime rifles.
The story of m/39 rifles with Tikka(koski) rifle barrels is almost the same. Tikkakoski manufactured rifle barrels for M1891 and m/91-30 rifles repaired and re-built in Finland. Since the need for making more m/91-30 rifles dropped considerably after year 1944 and production of m/1891 ended, much of the remaining inventory of Tikkakoski-manufactured m/91-30 rifle barrels were in similar manner shortened and used post-war to make rifles m/39.
One should remember that rifle stocks for rifle m/39 are all birch. While the wartime stocks can be exceptionally beautiful and/or have that "been there & done that" look, birch can get softer if soaked with gun oil countless times. Hence new or at least post-war rifle stocks are usually preferred for shooting purposes.
HEY BOOF. Order me the nicest SKy you can and I'll send your shop a $100 deposit. I get paid $1900 on the 14th, I just blew my load on my new apartment and paying off debt. Would have held the fuck off.
Fuck.
>>28367775
No reason to worry. VKT (Valtion Kivääritehdas = State Rifle Factory) made good rifle barrels, which during the war were used to assemble rifles in Weapons Depot 3 (AV 3, located in city of Kuopio). Post-war assembly happened in various weapons depot from which AV1 (Weapons Depot 1) in Helsinki was another major facility.
I have used one with VKT-barrel made in 1941 for old military rifle competions about a decade - accuracy-wise they are excellent rifles.
One thing worth noting - when it comes to Finnish-made rifles the year marked to rifle barrel indicates the year when the barrel was made, not necessarily the year when the barrel was used for building a rifle.
OK, help me, I'm an ignoramus.
I've got a basic bitch 91/30. I'd love an M39, just to see how good a Mosin Nagant can get.
At this point I'm too poorfag to begin collecting historic weapons, I'd really like just a good shooter.
I was thisclose to jumping on a standard VKT. But am I going to regret not grabbing any of the more exotic options? Will they be better Shooter's? Getting an unissued M39 is tempting.
