How deep should I build my SHTF bunker?
Need it to be able to withstand a nearby nuclear blast and be CBRN proof.
Thanks
Well 3 meters dirt and 20 meters reinforced concrete for nuclear blast surcivability.
But overall eter dirt and 1 meter reinfoced concrete should be fine in 99.99999% of all shtf
http://www.operatorchan.org/s/res/7985.html
>>28357815
>nuclear blast suitability.
Nigga no, without a proper shock absorption system all you're doing is making a super thick sarcophagus for you and your ugly kids.
>>28357757
>fallout protection
>>28357757
>nearby nuclear blast
I don't think there is much you can ddo about that.
>>28357757
So you live near Moscow?
>>28357757
>need it to withstand a nearby nuclear blast
do you live in a hut in the middle of the missile fields? No? Then you dont need it to withstand a nearby nuke blast.
>>28357757
just bury a shipping container you fagent.
otherwise if you want to discuss actually building a concrete bunker I can tell u all about every little detail, I build concrete walls for a living.
>>28358199
Shipping container won't withstand the pressure if you bury it in sand. They also tend to flood with groundwater.
>>28358178
But what if king emperor HUSSAIN Obongo tries to nuke muh house with a drone?!?!
>>28358240
bury a shipping container then pour concrete around it then, it wouldn't be terribly expensive
>>28358256
Or effective.
Just dig a hole, build wooden concrete forms, poor concrete.
If you do it, do it good. Not cheap.
>>28358256
>containers
>2016 in 2 days
use concrete, precast pipes and tanks are available at farm shows and can get pretty big
>>28358286
you can do it to code or do it right. Only two options.
>>28358256
>then pour concrete around it
Why? To make it collapse faster, and be harder to dig out? If it won't support sand or dirt, it sure as hell won't survive concrete.
Instead of dicking around and failing with a Conex box, just bury a section of concrete box culvert. Close off the ends with sheet pilings and be done with it. If you're gonna bury something, pick the one that's designed to be buried.
If you're on a budget, go with a plastic septic tank.
>>28358178
I live in low population area but a small town near me could be targeted.
>>28358342
>Why? To make it collapse faster
that's what steel rebar is for my man, plenty of steel=no break, no collapse
just about every concrete wall has steel in it, if yours doesn't then you got ripped off lol
>>28358317
this
>>28358256
>>28358286
>>28358317
>>28358342
>concrete doesn't transfer and absorb moisture
It's like you guys forget that you live in damp basements.
>>28358385
No it couldn't.
>>28358400
>moisture barriers dont exist
>>28358385
Oh, which one would that be?
>>28358441
It could in a counter value strike
>>28358160
Moscovites have their subway tunnels so they don't need personal bunkers. Most russians were told the cruel reality of a nuclear blast occuring nearby: "You're pretty much dead and If you don't die immediately I'm so sorry for you". Soviets didn't see the point of lying to little kids that they're going to be just fine by ducking and covering under their schooldesks..
PS. I'm not a Russian.
>>28358452
>only 500 warheads
>nuke Vegas.
>twice
>>28358478
Nobody is going to nuke a "small town" in a CV strike.
>>28358400
if a basement is properly waterproofed it should not be damp, tarniggers spray a thick layer of tar on the basement, then they cover the entire think in water resistant insulation and at they bottom they put what is called drain tile, drain tile catches and channels the water that is absorbed by the insulation which flows downward by the force of gravity, it channels the water away into the ground.
of course tar can get old and basements can crack with time, this is more of a problem when the natural groundwater level is higher than what is ideal.
>>28357757
>nearby nuclear blast
How close? are we talking within 500m or 3km away?
>and be CBRN proof.
Chemical and Biological dont require depth at all but they require you basically being locked up before deployment. You are never going to get an decon system 100% if it is home made. Radiological threats arent that bad, if you are close enough to get covered by high gamma emitters you are dead from the blast anyway. Nobody is going to drive to smalltown USA and start chucking gamma emitters at people. Nuclear depends on above question obviously.
>>28358452
>Live a few miles out of LA in another city
>Hope LA would just soak up nukes for me
>"Hit with 5000 megaton blast"
... I'm fucked, aren't I?
>>28358488
Apparently somebody really hates Vegas. Gambling problems in the family maybe?
>>28357757
how big of a nuke blast you talking? Nigger you gotta be more specific. Unless you live 1 mile within a base there is no need for more than 500kt blast protection.
>>28357757
So, in a slightly more precise manner: how deep should anyone build their shelters in the event of a CBRN event? Let's say you've got enough breathing room to be maybe 3 miles from the epicenter and a nuclear yield is about 5000 megatons?
Also, how long is one likely going to need to be down there? Assuming a person is willing to fight potential hostiles topside (because who knows when people will calm down after shit like that).
A few days? A week? Month? Years?
>>28358984
>5000 megatons
No such bomb exists.
>>28358552
Where is it ?
>>28359026
Of course, if such a bomb DID exist, 3 miles just isn't enough to be safe at any depth.
>>28358452
The worst parts of New England get literally vaporized, even the landmass itself
>there is a god
then actual New England can rise up and form our gun-based pangaea
>>28358984
>5000 megaton detonation
>anything on earth surviving
pick one newfriend
>>28359026
oops, misread the legend labeling here >>28358452
I mean 2000 kilotons, assuming that's the "average" for when a country wants to say 'fuck you, city!'.
Not mention I got the magnitude wrong. Damn, 5000 MEGAtons, the hell was I thinking?
>>28358984
>5000 megatons
The force cracks the planet or pushes it off orbit. Say goodbye to any electronic device ever.
>>28359026
>>28359070
Huh, my original post vanished.
Anyway though, sorry, I misread the map legend >>28358452 and have played too many videogames on the "wackier" scale of reality.
What I meant was 2000 kilotons.
>>28358984
lol biggest known nuke is around 50 megatons or equivalent to 50 million tons of tnt u fagent, 5000 megatons=5 billion tons of tnt, basically it would destroy the earth or atleast blow a gigantic chunk off of it and throw the earth out of orbit.
Now I'm trying to figure out what the most deadly part of a 5000 megaton (or 5 gigaton, I guess) would be. I'm saying shockwave.
>>28359144
The massive brass balls on whoever designed it.
>>28359101
2000kt = 2mt
3 miles from the detonation you cannot survive, period. Short of a government entity putting a large amount of resources into a deep, deep (i.e. 5 miles or more) subterranean shelter designed to withstand an impact like that, you will die.
>>28358452
>Silo sites only getting nuked in a 2000 warhead scenario
>targeting population centers with only 500 warheads
What a shite map.
>>28359144
The fact that you would have a self sustaining firestorm ripping through our atmosphere that reaches into the mesosphere.
As in, oceans vaporizing and no way to stop it because its so large.
>>28359160
yeah, okay.
Real sorry about this, it's just one of those scopes that's kind of hard to wrap my head around.
I was hoping to give something more specific to the OP but guess I failed there.
>>28359157
at that point would they even still be brass or would the gravitational collapse of them have turned them into something denser?
>>28358488
>>28358556
Nellis AFB
>>28359192
Right. Forgot that Nellis was out there.
>>28359192
And some fuckface thought it's worthwhile to nuke the dam lol
>>28358256
>>28357757
>Pic related
this is me parking a mack truck directly ontop of the entrance to your shelter, after me and my band of mauraders see that you A. have a shelter. and B. we want what you have or want to punish you for not letting us have it.
>NOT PICTURED
me burning your house down from 100 yds away.
Preppers are dipshitsssssssssssssssssssssss
Requesting autistic cavedigger screencap
>>28359365
Lol
>>28359345
>>28359365
At least preppers remember to upload the image for their post on the first try
>>28359406
>>28359030
VIVOS?
>>28359365
So your plan is to seal off the entrance of a shelter which could take weeks to run out of supplies, keeping you out and sacrificing a vehicle while, if push comes to shove, the shelter owner probably packed the right tools and can dig themselves out.
Come on, man, shouldn't you at least, you know, try to bust open the shelter and rape, pillage, and loot everything inside instead of just saying "if we can't have it, the owner inside will be the only one to have it!"
And god forbid if they're living in one of those massive, fallout shelter complexes that would put Vault-Tec to shame, in which case they can probably wait YOU out or might be better armed and defended than your marauders.
>>28358984
>5000 megatons
There wouldn't be a world left anyways. That would be like getting blasted by the Death Star.
>>28359365
>>28361140
Ooh, I was thinking about something similar a couple days ago. I was wondering if it'd be possible to suffocate everyone inside something like a bunker, by setting fires over all the air vents to draw the air out of the bunker.
Might need some upturned oil drums to limit the amount of air it gets from the outside world so it draws most of it from the bunker, I'm curious as to whether that would work.
>>28359830
>VIVOS
Kek that guy was sketchy as fuck, and no
>>28359030
Somewhere over the rainbow
>>28361682
Oh snap, are you the Swede? I haven't been browsing here for ages, last time I was here was like when you were getting the cement delivered, and I think a couple Polish guys were working for you.
>>28361518
I don't know, given any fallout shelter worth its salt is using some good air filters, I'm not so sure it would work.
Frankly, the way I see things is probably called 'liberal faggot' at best.
>The world, as it is, sucks
>So why make it suck more for other people?
>The world, post-apocalypse sucks even more some how, even without the human factor
>WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL TRYING TO MAKE IT SUCK MOST FOR EACH OTHER?
I'm not saying 'hold hands and get along', but being a marauder seems like just being a dick move for the sake of being a dick. During a situation like an apocalypse, isn't it a better idea to try to settle in and work to make a safe placer safer?
>>28358256
God fucking damn for the millionth time YOU CAN'T BURY SHIPPING CONTAINERS
>>28359262
>>28359262
>>28359262
>>28361752
Any ash is going to be hell on filters, very few sites have volcanic ash filtration systems. You would be better off welding the vents shut
why would you even want to survive a nearby nuclear blast?
if it's truly so close that you need protection against the shockwave and immediate area's radiation, you'll never be able to leave your bunker, so even if it is that good, you'll just prolong your life underground and then die.
>>28361140
Assuming said bunker doesn't have a sally port a few hundred yards away in the woods...
>>28358392
So, if you're pouring what is effectively a basement, why bother with the Conex box? That's the weak link in the whole deal. Using the Conex as the inner side of the form won't work because it can't stand the weight of the concrete. Rebar doesn't do shit to hold concrete in place until it's done curing. Rebar is for strengthening the finished product. The forms are what hold the pour in place.
>>28361752
>hey everybody let's hold hands and hug a tree guise say no to violence this is a gun free zone guise
take a bath hippy
>>28358400
http://www.seal-krete.com
It's almost like somebody has given the matter some thought.
>>28358452
Why would they nuke billings in a 500 strike but not at all in a 2000, when an AFB is in the middle of the 2000 strike in MT. Why is this map retarded?
>>28358478
Not unless somebody has been bogarting all of the nukes. Small towns are pretty much off of the countervalue target list. Lurk a few Oppenheimer threads.
This thread is retarded.
Dig 20 foot deep hole, 25x25. For those of you who cannot into excavation this will take staging.
Insert 2 feet of sand. Tamp sand. Pour 4 foot concrete pad in hole and set 1 bar (1 inch rebar) at equal distances for 16 inch block. Set block on 1 bar and slug (fill with mortar). Set large stone base for floor. Tamp. Set waterproofing membrane with 16 bar on risers. Pour floor 8 inches thick. Treat with cure to 25k psi.Get concrete channel steel roofing and set supports for 6 inch concrete load. Pour roof and use curing chemicals to treat concrete to 25k psi. Backfil and compact the fuck out of it. Im talking like 99-100 percent compaction.
You still need to worry about ventilation and access ways, as well as waste disposal.
This would probably cost 10-15k. But it would give you one hell of a start.
>>28358480
If the nuke's right on top of you you're dead anyway. But a few miles out, which is to say most schools, duck and cover protects you from flying debris, especially glass. Inverse square law. In between the "sure death" and "no noticeable effect" zones is a huge grey area where you start seeing more injuries than deaths, and you want to minimize casualties where you can. No matter how big the blast, the number wounded will always be higher than the number killed.
During the cold war, you could count on thousands of warheads raining down. Not anymore. And by far the most likely scenario is a terrorist bomb or lone ICBM from a rogue state like North Korea or (coming soon) Iran. In that scenario, a given region will have at best ONE nuke come down. And at that, only if you're sitting close to a very high value target. A country with a dozen warheads isn't going to waste one striking east bumblefuck, certainly not a terrorist group with ONE to use.
The Soviets invested a great deal of time and effort trying to discourage the US from its civil defense efforts. And why not?
A bomb shelter makes little sense these days, at least AS a bomb shelter. If you're sitting on a likely target, move to the 99.99% of the country that isn't there. Most people who are absolutely stuck in NYC, DC, or some other obvious target won't have the means to build an adequate shelter anyway, and even if they did it would be unlikely that they'd get enough warning to get to a shelter in time.
Duck and cover makes a ton of sense for kids to learn if a nuclear situation is imminent. A shelter's only value is that it's a hardened place to wait out some non-nuclear SHTF scenarios.
>>28358553
>5000 megatons
You're on a very likely target for a gigaton+ event. It's called an earthquake.
>>28359165
That's what they said about the atomic bombs.
>>28361999
Who besides the USA even has 2000 nukes anymore? Russia and who else?
North Korea has less than a dozen. Everyone else has one to three hundred at most. And the countries most likely to use them have the lower yield weapons.
At that point, counterforce isn't an option. Your options are to either go for maximum civilian casualties as a futile dying gesture. Or use terrorist proxies or a false flag operation to smuggle a single nuke in.
I'd be squirming in my seat right now if I lived in a major US city, for sure. A single warhead deniable strike would have zero warning, so even if I owned a shelter it would do me no good.
So if you're talking a major nation-wide strike, you really mean a Russia scenario.
>>28363557
Wait wait, my bad. Earthquakes and volcanoes are also megaton-scale events.
>>28363765
So... basically like this >>28354725 comic in the Polandball thread?
>>28363886
Wikipedia has wildly different numbers, especially for the US and Russia, but either way it's the same story. Most nuclear powers are our allies, but the ones that are not allies will be doing ~200 warhead attacks at best. And that's assuming they expend their whole arsenal.
To me, the odds of being nuked have gone up considerably, but in the form of a single deniable strike on a major US city, delivered by "terrorists" without warning. Probably with a comparatively low-yield weapon. A shelter in the burbs could hold up dandy in such a scenario... but it'll be empty because you were at work when the bomb went off.
Unless you're fixated on an end-of-world exchange with Russia, your best defense is living far from likely targets. I'm not saying don't build a shelter. Just don't expect a shelter to protect you from a nuclear war even if you warning to stay inside.
Incidentally, that reminds me: even in a Russia apocalypse scenario, you've got 20 min warning on an ICBM. By the time the President authorizes warning the public, that'll drop to 5-10 minutes. Can you get to your shelter in time? Would the President even give such a warning given the panic and chaos that would ensue and the inability of nearly anyone to use that information constructively?
>>28357757
Where is the salamander cult for this?
>>28359163
No, it's correct. A small arsenal has very little counterforce utility so the deterrent comes from countervalue.
If you have a greatly inferior arsenal such that you couldn't eliminate an significant portion of your enemies strategic weapons in a first strike, you can't threaten to win a nuclear exchange. You can only threaten that once your enemies leave their bunkers, everyone they know will be dead.
>>28364044
>That last part
Well, in my ideal scenario, I'd have my shelter be at home but the work point... Yeah. Fuck.
I guess my best defense is as you pointed out. I am twenty miles from LA and fifteen miles at least from any of the major ports (Longbeach) and given most nukes used today tend to take out maybe like only a few square miles even outside of the epicenter, I guess I am golden.
Unless terrorists or Russia are dead set on wiping out Disneyland. I could kind of see it but I could imagine Disneyland's actually got their own solutions for that.
>>28363765
>At that point, counterforce isn't an option
It's the only option.
>>28364249
>A small arsenal has very little counterforce utility so the deterrent comes from countervalue.
100% false.
>>28364727
How are a hundred warheads in Pakistan going to effectively eliminate the thousands of warheads in our arsenal? Let alone the ones on subs.
Counterforce just isn't an option for a small nuclear power.
>>28367016
Pakistan doesn't have a single weapon aimed at the US.
Simply because they have no weapons with the range to it the US.
A better example is the PRC, who have a small arsenal. Even then, the Chinese have multiple options and are not limited to countervalue as their only strategy.
In reference to my replies to you, I am specifically referring to the US/Russia. Any reduction in total warhead numbers is likely to be mutual, so that the number of counterforce targets drops with the number of total warheads.
>>28361778
This..
>>28364044
>Wikipedia has wildly different numbers, especially for the US and Russia, but either way it's the same story
Wikipedia list on nuclear arsenal isn't that accurate as only amount of active strategic warheads, strategic warhead reserve and retired strategic warheads waiting to be dismantled are listed. Treaties only cover US and Russia arsenals and those are only nuclear warheads with verified numbers. Tactical warhead arsenals of US and Russia and entire arsenal of other nuclear powers are unverified claims or just educated guess.
Currently US arsenal is somewhere around 7500 warheads and Russian arsenal is down to 7200 warheads as dismantling of retired warheads goes on.
You can find current numbers on Project Ploughshares, Federation of American Scientists or Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists.
http://ploughshares.org/world-nuclear-stockpile-report
http://thebulletin.org/nuclear-notebook-multimedia
https://fas.org/issues/nuclear-weapons/status-world-nuclear-forces/
>>28367361
All three of those sources conflate different categories of weapons. They do not reflect the true number of actual ready to deploy warheads. They include weapons that would require maintenance overhauls lasting days or weeks to return to service.
Whether this is intentional or not is debatable
>>28361778
This...
>>28367081
>In reference to my replies to you, I am specifically referring to the US/Russia. Any reduction in total warhead numbers is likely to be mutual, so that the number of counterforce targets drops with the number of total warheads.
I think you misread my post, then. I specifically was saying that counterforce isn't an option for countries attacking us other than Russia.
>>28368010
But I'd love to hear China's other options for attacking US territory other than counterforce and countervalue. I'm not familiar with other strategies.
>>28358400
I'm sorry you live in the impoverished American South where building codes do not exist, and alleged white men build squalid shacks with less knowledge and skill than a Home Depot Mexican.
>>28367081
>>28364729
>>28364727
Is there a good book out there focused on such technical data of the Cold War?
It can be regarding Nuke Exchange, War plans, regular military balance, geopolitics, etc.
Cheers
>>28361778
Not true. You CAN bury a shipping container IF you reinforce the structure first. You can gusset the inside, prep the surfaces, and use a ceramic coating on the exterior.
It'll work just fine.
>>28361778
What if I bury it upside down with a foundation underneath it?
Obviously the floor of the shipping container is designed to carry a fuckton of weight, otherwise shit would drop through the floor whenever you picked it up.
>>28364107
>implying any self respecting moleman would build a bomb shelter when there's perfectly good stone to dig into
>>28361752
Way too many sadists in the world for peace, brother. I just try to live my life without getting fucked over or murdered by them.
>>28368119
>>28368119
Could a brother recommend me a book like this?
>>28368119
>>28368119
>>28358452
>mfw live in western montana
>have whole mountain range and hundreds of miles between me and any nuclear blasts
Only thing I need to worry about is the fallout.
>>28358452
>live scant miles from chiraq
>live a little further from Detroit
>also live 30 minutes away from a nuke powerplant
>somehow manage to live in a nice town
>it still gets fucked 6 ways to sunday
Fucking why.
>>28368737
Managing Nuclear Operations.
>>28358452
>Mfw my whole area is blacked out and by a city and shit. Plus there's a nuclear plant only a couple miles from me. Fuck me.
