So we all know how /k/ feels about gun laws, but how do we feel about laws restricting the possession and recreational use of explosives and explosive devices?
This stuff for instance is an absolute nightmare to get. Even a simple flash grenade forces you to go through shady channels unless you're a LEO.
Is there a compelling argument for deregulating explosives the way that guns should be deregulated?
>>28342361
Their is no reason to deregulate them
Times have changed back in the 1950s or so you could just buy dynamite from hardware store and even bazookas.
Know as days that just a bad idea with all the right wing exteamist Muslim extremists and nutters it is a recipe for disaster to sell them at home depot
>>28342361
The way I see it is fire arms, even fully automatic, concealed carriers have a way to stop them.
If c4 and Semtex was sold over the counter with a standard 4473 I couldn't stop the attack with my ccw so I think it should be restricted. Sorry /k/
I don't think people should be able to own explosives / nerve agents
>>28342361
the government should not have any special tools for killing civilians that the civilians themselves cannot have.
the founding fathers were well aware that civilians could and did have war ships at their disposal as with artillery.
The second amendment isn't about being safe, it's about fighting tyranny
>>28342401
>>28342428
There *is* a compromise possible, in a perfect world. You could allow any kind of weaponry money could buy, provided you're in an organized militia in your state.
Which is what we had a couple hundred years ago, kinda-sorta.
>>28342361
I could give a shit less about terrorism but storage is really what scares me. Last thing I need is a box of sweating dynamite in my attic waiting to blow.
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.
>>28342361
Not particularly compelling, but the regs don't make explosives any less easy to manufacture...
>>28342401
>>28342454
These, guns are easy to use and safe to store. And idiots generally only hurt themselves with it.
Explosives are an entirely different beast.
Regulations keep mass bombings at a minimum. Its best if they stayed that way
>bubba ND's a gun in his house full of guns
>bullet goes through a few walls or into next house.
>bubba accidentally ignites his explosives in house full of explosives
>surrounding houses are either hit with the blast or the subsequent fire has spread to them
Not that explosives are THAT hard to make in this age of internet knowledge, but I'm not too keen on free reign with explosives and/or chemical and biological agents.
>>28342428
I ideologically agree with you but there are safty reasons like several anons already pointed out. Maybe when black powder was about the nastiest it could get, sure but a lot of explosives have a shelf life of about 15 years before things need a robot and a bomb squad.
>>28342428
sure. If we were in a perfect world and near everybody used common sense and practiced safety and self control.
But a yahoo with a few guns is one thing, a yahoo with bombs, potent biological and chemical weapons is very much another thing. Not to mention, unsafe handling of a gun isn't going to have the same scale and severity as poor handling of the other things.
I'd love to be able to own stuff like M18's and flash bangs, and the like. Stuff like C4 and shit, if it could be owned would have to be extremely regulated because unlike a gun, an explosion could wipe out your house, along with your entire block. At the very least put the same regulations on it as they do commercial grade fireworks, have a bunker to store them in outside of town so if they do explode for whatever reason it doesn't take a whole block with it.
It makes sense from an ideological and 2nd amendment point of view. But realistically, what would citizens do with explosives?
They are useless for self defense, not as easy to use and store as guns. And in the case of revolution, citizens could use their guns to raid armories and capture explosives.
That being said, I think if explosives were sold on the free market and citizens could buy them as easy as guns, there would probably pop up lots of more consumer friendly and safe explosives, that could be handled more easily and stored safely and for long times.
But I think it is a good thing that Mohammed and Ahmed have to at least get them on the black market or make shitty ones themselves, so I think explosives should stay regulated. And contrary to guns, there are not hundreds of millions of explosives in circulation, so restriction can actually work.
>>28342623
>But realistically, what would citizens do with explosives?
Mining and demolitions. You could special-order dynamite if you had a mining claim at one time. not sure when they decided you couldn't. Now it's about as tightly controlled as pure cocaine.
>>28342361
Tannerite is all we need.
>>28342644
Demolitions of what? Tree stumps?
Of 300 million americans, how many engage in recreational mining?
>>28342678
Even then my friend who has a hobby mine can get explosives after a good deal of background checks and a permit. It's not hard but it is a bother.
>>28342678
Flatlander detected. The guy who sells me my beer at the local 7/11 has a mining claim, and I have a standing invitation to work it. As for tree stumps -- well.... everybody has those when you live on the periphery of a national forest.
>>28342697
>>28342698
Well like I said above, if explosives were deregulated the free market would likely come up with more convenient solutions so I'm not totally opposed to deregulation.
But you gotta admit that there IS a large terror threat in the west and the ole anti-gun argument 'but making it more easy to get guns will mean criminals can get them more easily as well' kinda holds true when you suddenly deregulate explosives.
So not sure if worth it desu.
>>28342361
>>28342615
O shit, you guys can't even get flashbangs??
Shiiit, I'm pretty sure even 15 yr/o britcvck airsofters can get those
>>28342361
One side of me is screaming that nothing should be out of the reach of the average citizen that the government has...
On the other side, more rational voices win out. ND's turn into multiple people dead, we've done an OK job at regulating things you can make explosive with so the idea that they're already out there is crap, if I need to get my hands on explosives for a "fighting tyranny" situation it wouldn't be hard, and even trained professionals have a hard time working with explosives (let alone joe blow that just drank a 5th of jack).
Gotta say no. Sorry /k/.
from what i understand, most of the US's laws are not against possession or manufacturing of explosives, rather the sale, storage (without proper facilities), and transport of such.
these seem somewhat common sense laws coz explosives are very prone to auto detonation due to improper storage or transport... however from what i read the process of having a legal storage facility for such items is basically restrictive to people who own a demo site outside of any city limits.
Sure, why not. After all, explosive devices are already a rich person toy for people that can pay ATF taxes.
I wanna make a mini hell cannon that fires those mini camping propane bottles. I would hunt the shit out of some deer.
>>28342812
So make one. It's not even that hard.
>>28342829
But the trial and error would without a doubt kill me.
>>28342361
fuck off man, shall not be infringed means shall not be infringed
>>28342842
Get a section of concrete sewer pipe, plug the ass-end with cement, drill a hole above the plug, and shoot beer cans full of more cement out of it with black powder. Me and a friend did that when we were teenagers, with a sympathetic old guy supplying the powder.
>>28342852
awww thats like the cutest childhood
>>28342805
US laws are absolutely against the possession and manufacturing of explosives. I've worked with the FBI and ATF specifically in the realm of explosives. You can own low explosives like black and smokeless powder, but that is pretty much the extent of it. You could also legally own all of the precursor chemicals to create homemade explosives, but the second you mix them with the intent of making HME you are breaking at least a dozen federal laws.
You'll also probably fuck it up and blow your dick off. Just don't.
>>28342856
Well, after the tennis ball mortar and the potato gun get boring, sometimes you just don't want to stop until you create The Ultimate Weapon.
Then there was the time a friend stole an entire tank of helium from the county fair and we blew up hot water bottles we bought at Salvation Army and attached lit road flares to them at dusk and set them loose so we could see where they went. I still don't understand why we didn't set the entire fucking state on fire.
>>28342428
>the founding fathers were well aware that civilians could and did have war ships at their disposal as with artillery.
The difference is that artillery and war ships require a big crew to operate effectively.
>b-but muh gunpowder
Gunpowder i shit compared to modern explosives and so was the means how delivery. The best you could hope to do would be loading up several barrels of gunpowder on a horse coach and setting it of in the town square. It pales in comparison to what one person can do today. Pic related.
I am all for unrestricted sale of small arms because according to me their anti tyranny potential is far outweighs their carnage potential.
>>28342852
Ya, but as soon as your start replacing those beer cans with canisters full of white gas you are bound for some hurt. You get the propellant charge wrong by a few grams, or the gas bottle has some sort of defect, and that bitch is going to rupture. Then it explodes. Best case scenario all of the force is vented out of the open side of the tube and it just makes a big fire ball. Worst case is that the body of the canister expands when it explodes, wedging itself in the barrel for just a fraction of a second but giving the over pressure enough time to turn that galvanized steel launcher tube into ribbons of jagged shrapnel that turn you and your buddies into red paste.
>>28342888
So cut discs of some material like, I dunno, Lexan and make a sleeve like you would for a shotgun load. Jesus. Do I need to hold your fucking hand here?
>>28342479
Binary explosives aren't really regulated much.
>>28342891
If I wanted to make a homemade mortar tube I could produce some shit that would knock your socks off. If you wanted to make a boom tube that fires actual explosive rounds there is a lot more to it than just putting a sleeve on your projectile to protect it. I know this shit. It is literally my job to know this shit.
>>28342906
Binary explosives still require a blasters permit to purchase. Except for tannerite for some reason, which baffles me.
>>28342912
You should make an infographic for us sometime. Purely for research purposes, natch.
>>28342866
mix ammonia cleaning solution with formaldahyde dropwise in ice bath
evap unreacted stuff in hotwater bath
evap water overnight in oven.
hexamine product will now be isolated.
mix dropwise with nitric acid to make RDX (c4 active explosive)
now make a plasticizer suspension by mixing styrafoam with gasoline or acetone until you get the desired putty.
mix in RDX
boom you have C4
now make a blasting cap out of gunpowder and a christmas tree light.
if you cant get nitric acid you can make your own by ionizing air with a neon sign transformer and bubbeling it through cold water.
if you cant get formaldahyde by buying fuel injector cleaner that is 100% methanol, and then catalytically breaking down its vapor with a metal catalysts (nickle or better yet platnum) and simply heating it to cherry red iwth a blowtorch and hanging it above solution in a sealed container.
>>28342765
We can, they just have to be stored in an approved munitions bunker (magazine) after acquiring a federal explosives license. Not worth it.
>>28342931
Perhaps one day I will, when I live in a country with less internet monitoring and am behind more proxies. I can say this though: the IRA has their shit down. Their improvised mortars are of a quality one step below military production. Inspirational stuff.
>>28342944
You're process works, but it is more complicated than it needs to be. Well, mostly. You are missing a few step (according to my own process). RDX is cool, but their are so many other homemade explosives that are infinitely easier to make and have much more accessible components.
Also, a christmas light full of gunpowder doesn't have enough ass to set off RDX, especially once it has been plasticized.
>>28342983
Pardon, but couldn't you theoretically use the ignition caps to model rockets using D or E level engines for the ignition? I'm not gonna claim to know anything about C4, but I do know a thing or two about Rocket engines.
>>28342993
You could use rocket motors to ignite low explosives (like black powder or smokeless powder) or to set of very sensitive primary explosives like TATP or HMTD, but not relatively insensitive explosives like RDX.
>>28343004
I'd hope so on the black-powder / smokeless as that's basically all they are, I figured the plugs for some of the larger Single Use Composite Engines would have enough ass, as you called it, to get it RDX going.
TATP, isn't that the one that can go off if a hair falls on it or something retarded?
>>28342566
>Regulations keep mass bombings at a minimum.
Uh huh... sure they do.
>>28342361
>deregulate
no. no no no.
explosives are a legitimate hazard to more parties than the owner, especially if stored or handled improperly.
>>28342428
iirc, explosives (chemicals) and destructive devices (bombs, etc) are regulated seperately.
I'm all for the deregulation of explosive devices, however, I would most certainly want the actual explosive chemical to remain regulated as it is currently for safety's sake.
>>28342983
hmmm acetone peroxide on end of blasting cap might do it then.
i guess if you go through all the trouble to get nitric acid then making nitro glycerin wouldnt be that much harder for a more stable blasting cap.
i wonder if one could used primers as plastings caps
>>28343019
To an extent. All primary explosives are very sensitive. If you make them in a laboratory-like condition with pure components then they have less chance to be affected by additive which might make them more sensitive. Some people are also impatient and take shortcuts to reduce the process time, which can also make the product more dangerous.
Case in point: there were a few dumbass high school anarchists a while back that made a shit ton of TATP and then decided it wasn't potent enough so they added thermite. Then they put it all in a big plastic tub (which produce static) and mixed it all up by mashing it with a trailer ball hitch. Long story short, they are dead now and the bomb squad had to blow up their perents' house to neutralize the remaining product because it was too dangerous to move.
Like I said earlier, it is better to just leave HME to the professionals.
>>28342361
I thought you could get a license for these things? Am I wrong? Just get the lawful license if allowed. Deregulation is stupid, but it's not going to stop anyone from being an ass hat.
Also, fireworks already exist. So I don't see how it could anymore deregulated.
>>28342428
>be me
>be Ahmed
>be immigrant in USA
>have citizen ship
>no history of terrorist activity because fake passport
>speed through immigration because refugee status
>be working as taxi driver
>Americans de regulate explosives
>call cousin in Saudi Arabia and have him wire money
>legally buy plastic explosives
>stable explosives don't have to worry about accidentally blowing up house like in Iraqi bomb factory
>buy 50 card board boxes
>ship c-4 to 50 different states
>bombs on legally bought timer so detonates simultaneously
>50 ups and fed ex aircraft fall from the sky nation wide
>thousands of deaths
>nation wide panic
>legally bought because shall not be infringed faggots
Does anyone see how retarded you are
>>28343052
The difference between a firework are a high explosive compound of an equal weight is exponential. They are worlds apart.
>>28343048
I was actually more curious as to a "why" more than the backstory.
Like is it a KE thing or a chemical reason to why RDX wouldn't react to the plugs.
Comp plugs are M(II)F which I would think give off enough force to activate the RDX....
>>28342678
I do faggot.
Do you even wing it and go slowly?
>>28343058
Nice scaremongering there. You could work for CNN.
>>28343058
>literally restricting freedom for the sake of security.
you know getting legal access to explosive compounds isn't that difficult, right?
the only difference in your story and the world as it stands is that your terrorist would have to build a cinderblock shack "storage facility" in his back yard and pay a $200 fee before being allowed to legally possess explosives. after that, he can go on with his nefarious plot.
>>28343061
It is about the amount of energy given off versus the stability of the explosive compound. You need a very large amount of energy to make the compound begin to break down at a speed rapid enough to cause a detonation. You basically need to break the chemical bond between the fuel and the oxidizer, thus creating a reaction which is fast enough to cause a combustion. They initial energy needs to be very high and cause a huge amount of heat, shock, and friction. A rocket motor just doesn't have enough juice.
>>28343076
That $200 fee is imposed by the ATF and includes a full criminal and psychological background check. You also have to live in a state that allows for it, and present a legitimate reason for needed explosives.
Don't try to downplay it.
>>28343093
no don't you try to upplay it :^)
>>28343076
>guise some immigrants just set of sarin gas in time square
>guise black lives matter just set off a dirty bomb in a baseball stadium
>atleast we are free rite guys
>atleast I can buy claymore and RPGs
>mass casualty events are just a cost of freedom guise
>atleast I died from a legally purchased nuclear bomb as a free man right guys
>atleast the USA perished as a free nation right guys
Fucking people are retarded
I know gun control (bomb control) doesn't stop terrorists but don't hand it to them on a silver platter you fucking retards
>>28343080
I see what your saying, I think. but what i'm suggesting isn't the actual Motor its self but rather the ignition plugs, granted you might have towire 2 or three of them together but DV is around 4250 m/s if WIKi is anything to go off of.
The plugs them selves look almost like a wishbone , withe tail of the Y being covered i na protective shell to keep impact blast from happening, the two Arms of the Y are connected to a firing board and plunger set. , the protected tail of the Y is actually placed inside the rear of the solid fuel to ignite the motor.
Anyways I've gotta get some shuteyem and get things ready for the ATF when they come shoot my dog tomorrow. Thanks for the conversation.
>>28343098
U fukin' wut m8? I'll hook u in the gab, u cheeky cunt. I swear on my mum!
You know there is a real simple answer to "MUH TYRANNY" being the reason for 2A.
In normal day-to-day life, guns can be banned for everybody. If the situation ever arises where the people do need to use weapons against the government, they can then be legalized during that period.
Pretty simple, keeps everyone happy.
>>28343119
>>28343119
>>28343122
I should mention by the way that this is what gun owners actually believe when it comes to tanks/drones/planes/etc. If you substitute "Legalize" for "steal."
>>28342361
I have never tried to get explosives but I am glad people can't just walk to Home Depot and pick up tnt or c4. People do enough dumb shot with guns from what I see. At least with guns the damage is minimal. You fuck up with a brick of c4 and its gonna leave more than a little hole.
Sure not long ago you could go buy dynamite super easy, people blew themselves up all the time but in those times and places very very few people lived in apartments. Most of America was white and lived in rural areas. I would be very uncomfortable if deshwan downstairs was storing old tnt in his closet.
I know it's not impossible if you have proper facilities and reasons to get/make/use explosives. I knew one guy in Montana who worked on inventing new explosive to sell to the government.
Sure I would like to have a belt of frag grenades and flash bangs for the hell of it. It would be cool to have c4 to make little explosive animals out of and some clay mores for bear deterrence but I would rather not have to worry about some idiot blowing me to bits.
>>28342623
What about a defensive suicide vest?
>>28342361
shall not be infringed
>>28342361
Motherfucker I want to be able to blow up stumps and gopher holes!
Shall not be infringed!
They say you can't have explosives and they'll define gunpowder as an explosive!
It's another means to an end for gun ownership!
>>28343180
Technically gunpowder conflagrates, not combusts, so it isn't exploding it is actually just burning.
>>28342428
If you want to fight tyranny, get a law degree.
>>28342361
Regulation is pointless and only makes it harder on the Citizen. If lunatics want these things, they'll make them.
I wonder if C4 could be used in place of conventional powders in large-bore firearms. Of course it's detonated by an electrical discharge, so you'd need to design a completely new case...
>>28342428
>explosives become unregulated due to the 2nd amendment
>thousands of youtube videos appear of Americans using explosives for recreational fun
>some American decides to use explosives to fight what they think is a tyrannical government
>few people die, world wide coverage
>Americans get mad that someone used explosives for its intended purpose
>>28342578
>Shelf Life.
This is the solution. Civilian explosives should be manufactured like canned food. Use it once you open it, or it'll deteriorate within 12 hours. This might prevent looneys from making deadly bombs, since they'd have to spend all day throwing such things together.
Buying explosives over-the-counter could become a thing if a couple of Chemists would get off their asses...
>>28343354
>detonated by an electrical discharge
>doesn't understand the concept of primary explosives
>or booster charges
>thinks using RDX or HE in general as a propellant is a good idea
There's a reason ordnance researchers only do small amounts of nitroglycerin and nitroguanidine added to nitrocellulose based powders for conventional and even naval artillery systems.
>>28343374
Explosives deteriorate towards becoming more unstable, not less. Trying to create such a concoction that stores chemical energy even more strictly with age and decay goes against thermodynamics and the rules of physics in general.
Even the "safe" self-destruct systems in landmines involve detonation upon the expiration of a timer.
>>28342765
im pretty sure brits cant buy real flashbangs.
just the retarded airsoft ones
>>28342866
incorrect.
you can manufacture explosives in certain amounts for personal use but cannot store or transport
>>28343059
Okay, explain it to me like I'm retarded with sources from government sites.
>>28342361
I don't think citizens should be restricted from owning any kind of weapon that the government has access to, so...I guess I'm against restrictions from owning explosives.
I mean, knowing how stupid people can be, I can't say I'm not uneasy about that idea, but there you go.
I think dynamite should be deregulated
C4 and such, eeehhh i don't really know
>>28342400
>bazookas
>>28343100
What happened to the good old days when only white men had rights?
Shit like this wouldn't happen if we kept things like the good ol days.
>>28343866
>explosive that sweats/weeps nitroglycerin in hot weather and requires constant rotation of stock to not turn into a hypersensitive tumor of crystallized nitroglycerin should be deregulated
>but an explosive insensitive enough to be hit with a hammer and lit on fire shouldn't be
>mfw
As much as /k/ hates the word, theres NO NEED for anyone to own high explosives unless their job requires them, and in that case, they'll get what they need for the job and no more.
Explosives are dangerous shit. It's easy enough as it stands to build an improvised bomb, you don't want to make it easier. Shooting up a school is one thing, blowing up a block with off the counter HE is completely crazy, a recipe for SHTF if I've ever seen one.
I live in a country where you can take a four-day course to get a permission to buy explosives. The course is actually mandatory for some agriculture oriented high schools, but anyone with 300€ can take it. Doesn't matter if you are a criminal.
Funnily enough, explosives are not a problem here.
>>28343884
Check out ian interview with forgot his name about destructive devices and how 20mm became destructive devices after a bank robbery
>>28344444
Also mfw dem fours
Anyways, I find it funny how many of you use gun grabber logic when trying to justify strict regulation on inanimate substances.
>/k/ only in favor of the second ammendment insofar as it pertains to muh guns
Figures
>>28342866
>I've worked with the FBI and ATF
I hope you get cancer m8
>>28342361
>you can already make thousands of pounds of explosives legally in your home RIGHT NOW for recreational use
>almost no deaths due to explosives
>but we should still regulate heavily (insert things i believe to be dangerous)
you fucking hypocrites
>>28343058
>Be me
>Be wage slaving at FedEx terminal
>See package with no return address
>Swab it and run it through pic related
>Machine goes crazy
>Call bomb squad
>Bomb squad takes package apart, says it looks like the work of some stupid sand nigger and probably wouldn't have gone off
>MFW freedom is still free
>>28342912
Don't feel too frustrated, it's practically Phil's job to shitpost on 4chan and give people bad advice.
>>28342400
>Their is no reason to deregulate them Times have changed back in the 1950s or so you could just buy handguns from hardware store and even machineguns. Know as days that just a bad idea with all the right wing exteamist Muslim extremists and nutters it is a recipe for disaster to sell them at home depot
>>28342566
>Regulations keep mass shootings at a minimum. Its best if they stayed that way
>>28342883
>I am all for unrestricted sale of small arms because according to me their anti tyranny potential is far outweighs their carnage potential.
Number of tyrants stopped by guns in the US: 0
Carnage caused by guns by guns in the US: >>> 0
>>28343119
>need to use weapons against the government
>can then be legalized
Legalized by whom? The government you're trying to fight?
>>28343187
Technically it explodes, legally it's an explosive.
>>28344179
> theres NO NEED for anyone to own high explosives unless their job requires them
>theres NO NEED for anyone to own firearms unless their job requires them
Did you know smokeless powder is made of high explosives?
>>28343379
>Doesn't realize nitrocellulose is a high explosive
>Doesn't realize RDX is used in propellants
>Doesn't realize 4.73×33mm caseless ammunition used HMX
>Doesn't realize some double and triple base powders use large amounts of nitroglycerin/nitroguanadine
>>28343305
>>28345765
Welcome to /k/. Hypocrisy is the norm here.
>>28342361
it would be just like if they deregulated full auto, we would have a bunch of modern day al capones running around throwing grenades at police instead of using tommy guns, so with this in mind I say yes, deregulate explosives. citizens should be equal with the government in terms of firepower.
>>28345765
Guns are different there is literally no reason for you to own a brick of C4. It doesn't even make a decent target because it only activates when exposed to electric current. You don't need C4 when tannerite is in every way better for your purpose.
>>28342361
>So we all know how /k/ feels about gun laws, but how do we feel about laws restricting the possession and recreational use of explosives and explosive devices?
Shall not be infringed.
>>28347356
>it only activates when exposed to an electric current
But that's fucking wrong, you retard.
>>28347356
>it only activates when exposed to electric current.
retard
>tannerite is in every way better
tannerite is a high explosive that can easily be used for terrorism
>>28342623
>citizens could use their guns to raid armories and capture explosives
You wouldn't need guns either. Just use knives to kill soldiers/cops and capture the guns. Steal the knives from grownups.
>>28344444
Your post was based like your country.
Please say which european country this is?
Extra points if its a kinda antigun country with relatively lax explosive laws.
>>28343100
>implying we wouldn't just commit war crimes to eradicate those groups with our new weapons.
>implying our ruthless retaliation and purgation of 'problems' and liberals who support those 'problems' wouldn't save our nation.
>implying we won't become a strong culturally and mostly genetically homogeneous nation that would then colonize other 'problem' nations.
>>28342361
Anyone with an FEL and/or FFL8,10,11 here who could explain the process of how to get one?
>>28342697
>>28342711
It's NOT as difficult as most of /k/ seems to think it is though for binary explosives at least.
And while the ATF does go full retard about guns and the like, there are a few good reasons to be cautious with explosives, primarily it's very, very fucking easy to go full retard, fuck up what you're using, misplace it or not properly store it and destroy the entire fucking neighborhood because Bubba thought he could store his box of TNT in the basement.
Guns, to me at least, are a whole nother realm because guns are controlled destruction. A gun will not shoot itself, nothing in front of a gun will be damaged, I can prevent a gun from ever going off by never loading it.
An explosive is always on. You can never turn it off. If you improperly handle it, you're dead as well as everybody around you including everything around as well. You improperly store it, dead. Your equipment fails, dead. Explosive gets old and crystallizes, becoming hyper sensitive, dead. You do everything right but a stiff fucking breeze rolls through and you look at the explosive wrong? Dead.
There is no safe way of handling an explosive, only methods of making an explosive less dangerous to handle.
>>28342361
No matter what you think about how dangerous explosives are, in 2015, a militia is utterly useless without them.
>>28347859
Finland. Not as anti as most other EU countries but not ideal either.
>>28349818
What kinda explosives can you get?
Like old grenades or just commercial stuff that our american miners and stuff would use?
>>28342400
>nutters
Please we aren't talking about Britain, calm down.
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED
>>28343132
>If you substitute one word for another, the sentence means something different!
>>28343774
this desu senpai
>>28344444
>>28344460
BASED
>>28342400
You could buy dynamite at hardware stores as late as the 80s according to folks around here (Western WA)
I imagine there started to be some regulations after Oklahoma City, and for sure after 9/11.
Stuff is still pretty easy to make though, just take proper precautions.
http://www.pyronfo.com/
Obviously you should only use this info for stump removal, construction, and recreational purposes, not making and selling explosives which will get the BATFE on your ass
>>28342428
This so much X1000
The extrajudicial fear lingering is violent. Believe in yourself and understand every humans potential to obtain and train with technological advances.
Chemicals like herbicides and pharmasudicals have proven time and time again abuse is a twin force wave. When you doubt your neighbor imagine them as they could be, instead, be the liberating mind.
You have ex military on your block ladies and gents.
Law is not liberating considering a self Greasing Palm aka one hand greases the other. Get with it y'all. Liberty over law. Pay no tax, you're dogmatic. Rational=health and independence which means defending it internally(self control) and externally.
How are you going to be independent around anti liberation lawmaking terrorists and taxation?
> tell it like it is so we don't have to do this twice, amigo.
>>28342361
sapper here
using explosives are pretty boring actually. it goes boom and you want more of it but after blowing up 100+ lb at once you get the point, more explosives = more boom.
Explosives are pretty dangerous as well the material is inherently pretty reactive. If the thing doesn't go off as planned it can be a pretty big problem.
When it comes to those reactive targets i bet a ton of people get hurt from them but we just don't hear about it.
With all this being said I still think people should be able to get access to them. It does come in handy in events like blowing up beaver dams.
idk just my 2 cents
![b67f1a12f3[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/1d5QcRi.png "b67f1a12f3[1].png")
>>28346538
>nitrocellulose
>high explosive
What the fuck am I reading? Smokeless powder is specifically formulated to be a low explosive. Pic related, West Point ordnance manual.
>Doesn't realize RDX is used in propellants
Rocket propellants? I doubt it's used in any gun systems.
>denatured HMX in 4.73 Kraut Magic is equal to active RDX/C4 in propellants
I'll concede for now that some double or triple base powders might have high levels of nitroglycerin and nitroguanidine.
Still, none of your points validate the hypothetical uses of neat C4 as a propellant
>>28342711
>>28342786
My feeling is that even if it's practical to legalize this shit, we have better fights to win first. And it's not at all clear to me that legalization is a good idea.
So why not procrastinate while things play out and focus on the overcoming the clear injustices first?
>>28343048
Where can you go other than the military to learn the safe and proper use of explosives, then? I'm not even interested in owning any, but it's a fascinating subject.
I'm not interested in doing it professionally, and I can easily pass (and am willing to go through ) a background check first.
>>28343388
Unless the process of decay bleeds off the energy stored in the chemicals. Like if it's slightly warm.
With a one year half-life, it would be at 1/32 potence in 5 years. (I'm talking chemical decay, not radioactivity)
>i want to play with boom booms but the mean ol government wont let me
if your only reason is 'recreational use' you know you don't have much of a case for de-regulating something.
>>28352463
Find a university that isn't cucked all to hell. Pic related, New Mexico Tech's offerings for complete newfags. If you want to enroll ultra-super-part time then they'll let you.
>>28352644
>We need a decomposition that gives off heat
>but one where added heat doesn't increase the reaction rate
>and generate more heat
>and a faster reaction
>and even more heat
>we want a thermal runaway, but not TOO thermal runaway
>also it still needs to detonate on command
Best of luck.
>>28352463
And New Mexico Tech's more advanced offerings once you get your feet wet.
>>28352773
i figure most colleges cant offer courses like that because they aren't in a state with tons of open space to blow shit up in like new mexico
>>28352815
http://explosives.mst.edu/explosivesprograms/undergraduateprograms/
http://explosives.mst.edu/explosivesprograms/distanceeducation/
>There's even distance learning
>>28344444
Those quints are amazing. Tell us more about your explodey based nation.
>>28342566
What keeps mass bombings to a minimum is that you need to know-how to be able to make bombs, any imbecile can point a gun and pull a trigger.
>>28352773
>>28352812
Many thanks, based anon. I like to pick up skills like this and can register for classes for free as part of my job.
>>28343341
If you want to stop criminals get a badge
Here's the rational discussion:
Everyone can agree nobody should have Nukes or Biological weapons; MAD has been very good for world peace. Biological weapons and most Chemical weapons fall into the category of doing more harm to even the person deploying them. E.G. VX Nerve gas and white phosphorous need to be banned, for everyone, including military and law enforcement.
For Mechanized Weapons including Aircraft, the issue is the munitions not the vehicle. See the Killdozer incident for an example of a worst-case scenario. The issue with owning munitions, including artillery and mortar shells, unformed munitions, mines, missiles, rockets, and so forth, is storage.
Given you the date of manufacture and expiration date on the side of everything, and pass a law simply stating storing expired munitions or is a felony. Self preservation will take care of the rest.
The bigger issue here is, if you introduce munitions storage to a urban or apartment environment, and a fire breaks out. The problem there is the fire department isn't going to move in and put out a munitions fire, they're going to evacuate the surrounding blocks and let the sucker go boom, then put out the fire. You get a big enough series of explosions, and you've got the Great Chicago Fire. Storing munitions underground where the concussive force can be directed upwards helps, but can damage underground infrastructure such as sewer and gas piping.
The federal government shouldn't be passing laws and regulations for munitions storage, as that is pretty much demonstrably against the 2nd amendment. Municipalities need to adopt their own standards or standards that are similar from state to state; country folk have no other reason not to have what they want to have.
Gunpowder is the exception to the rule, there's ammunition a hundred years old that's still usable and stable, and ammo fires are not that bad because the ammo tends to go off slowly and over time.
>>28353026
lol
>>28350175
Wow that website is absolutely useless
Mega Modern Combat Tactics ftw
>>28353026
>Boston bombers made a devastating bomb out of a cooking pot and fireworks.
Tripfags gonna trip.
>>28342479
I hate to use the soccer mom argument, but you would, literally, see a rise in explosive terror attacks if it didn't take much effort.
Yes I believe that restricting sales in some way shape or form prevents straw purchasing. Like 90%+ of the guns in Canada come from the USA since it's easier to buy one there and smuggle it in, then try and beat the system up here.
>>28342400
>>28342401
>>28342507
>>28342566
>>28342578
>>28342610
>>28342615
I'm not going to reply to literally every post like these ITT but you britches get the point. Fuck you.
CHAPTER 5 A PLASTIC EXPLOSIVE FROM SWIMMING POOL CLORINATING COMPOUND ( H.T.H. )
This explosive is a chlorate explosive from bleach. This method of
production of potassium or sodium chlorate is easier and yields a
more pure product than does the plastique explosive from bleach
process. In this reaction the H.T.H. ( calcium hypo-chlorate –
CaClO ) is mixed with water and heated with either sodim chlorate
( table salt, rock salt ) or potassium chloride (salt substitute). The
latter of these salts is the salt of choice due to the easy
crystalization of the potassium chlorate. This mixture will need to be
boiled to ensure complete reaction of thc ingredients.
Obtain some H.T.H. swimming pool chlorination compound or
equivalent (usually 65% calcium hypochlorite). As with the bleach
is also a dissociation reaction. In a large pyrex glass or enameled
steel container place 1200 g. H.T.H. and 220 G. potassium chloride or
159 g. sodium chloride. Add enough boiling water to dissolve the powder
and boil this solution. A chalky substance ( calcium chloride ) will be
formed. When the formation of this chalky substance is no longer formed,
the solution is filtered while boiling hot. If potassium chloride was
used, potassium chlorate will be formed. This potassium chlorate will
drop out or crystalize as the clear liquid left after filtering
cools.These crystals are filtered out when the solution reaches room
temperature. If the sodium chloride salt was used this clear filtrate
( clear liquid after filtration ) will need to have all water evaporated.
This will leave crystals which should be saved.
>>28354241
These crystals should be heated in a slightly warm oven in a
pyrex dish to drive off all traces of water ( 40 – 75 deg.C. ). These
crystals are ground to a very fine powder ( 400 mesh ).
If the sodium chloride salt is used in the initial step, the
crystallization is much more time consuming. The potassium chloride is the
salt to use as the resulting product will crystallize out of solution as
it cools. The powdered and completely dry chlorate crystals are kneaded
together with vaseline in plastique bowl. ALL CHLORATE BASED EXPLOSIVES ARE
SENSITIVE TO FRICTION, AND SHOCK, AND THESE SHOULD BE AVOIDED. If sodium
chloride is used in this explosive, it will have a tendancy to cake and
has a slightly lower detonation velocity. This explosive is composed of
the following:
Potassium or sodium chlorate90 %
Vaseline10 %
The detonation velocity can be raised to a slight extent by the
addition of 2 – 3 % aluminum powder substituted for 2 – 3 % of the vaseline.
The addition of this aluminum will give this explosive a bright flash if
set off at night which will ruin night vision for a short while. The
detonation velocity of this explosive is approximately 3200 M/sec. for
the potassium salt and 2900 M/sec. for the sodium salt based explosive.
You can then make a simple shaped charge with a conical-bottom wine glass.
Cut the bottle several inches from the bottom (string+rubbing alcohol+ice bath method is very effective) and fill with the plastic explosive.
Secure popsicle sticks/pens/sticks/whatever to the bottle to provide standoff legs.
I'd use a crimped spent casing or small lightbulb detonator, either with visco fuse or electrical wire and a couple of 9v batteries in series.
>>28354254
More copy pasta for freedom of /k/nowledge purposes.
Liquid drano=sulfuric acid
Spectracide stump killer=potassium nitrate
White camp fire starter tablets=Hexamine
The ratios need to be worked out. This will require math, a chemistry text to convert % to molar, and the actual labels to be sure of commercial purity.
Construct ice bath. In smaller container, dissolve Hexamine in water. Slowly, with a thermometer in the Hexamine at all times, add your nitrate solution made from draino and stump killer. WATCH THE THERMOMETER! If it spikes, DUMP OUT the solution directly into the ice bath or you will have new face jewelry.
Before you start, it might be a good idea to look up the spontaneous detonation temp (if any) for this reaction. IIRC, nitroglycerin is pretty damn low. This might be too.
READ A GODDAMN CHEMISTRY BOOK FIRST to make sure I didn't miss anything. You bet your candy ass I will be.
>>28354269
Synthesis routes for a few low-order explosives.
1)ETN(C4H6N4O12)-VOD- 8,000-8,100/sec
RE Factor- 1.6
Also Called- Erythritol Tetranitrate
Synthesis- ETN is made by nitrating erythritol through the mixing of concentrated sulfuric acid and a nitrate salt. Ammonium nitrate is commonly used for this type of reaction. The erythritol is added to the mixture to begin its nitration.
The Problem- The availibility of erythritol(C4H10O4) is the question. Where can i find it? Are there any alternate synthesis routes involving less easy-to-find reagents to find than erythritol itself? How about the direct synthesis of it?
Brief Explosive properties- Long shelf-life.One quality this explosive has, that PETN does not, is a positive oxygen balance. Having a positive oxygen balance means that ETN possesses more than enough oxygen in its structure to fully oxidize all of its carbon and hydrogen upon detonation. This can be seen in the equation below.
C4H6N4O12 → 4 CO2 + 3 H2O + 2 N2 + ½ O2
Whereas PETN decomposes to:
C5H8N4O12 → 3 CO2 + 2 CO + 4 H2O + 2 N2
>>28342361
There are instructions on how to synthesize RDX in the do/k/ument
Looks difficult and dangerous but it's good to know
>>28354315
2)PETN(C5H8N4O12)-VOD- 8,400/sec
RE Factor- 1.66
Also Called- Pentaerythritol tetranitrate
Synthesis- This compound is produced by reaction of pentaerythritol with concentrated nitric acid. In this reaction, it forms a precipitate. The crude can be recrystallized from acetone to give processable crystals.
C(CH2OH)4 + 4 HNO3 → C(CH2ONO2)4 + 4 H2O
The Problem- Availibility of Pentaerythritol[C(CH2OH], and/or it's synthesis.
Brief Explosive Properties- High brisance, quite stable and more difficult to detonate than primary explosives, long shelf-life
>>28354349
3)RDX(C3H6N6O6)-VOD- 8,750/sec
RE Factor- 1.6
Also Called- Cyclotrimethylene trinitramine
Synthesis-It is obtained by reacting concentrated nitric acid with hexamine, (CH2)6N4 + 10HNO3 → (CH2-N-NO2)3 + 3CH2(ONO2)2 + NH4NO3 + 3H2O
The Problem- Formation of hexamine(C6H12N4), by the reaction of formaldehyde and ammonia in solution. On wiki it only gives this sentence without any further ado. Can anybody please shed some light on this one? I reacted equal parts of them and the mixture started to heat up and bubbles started to be produced. What went wrong?, and what is the correct ratio in reacting them?
Answer:
You do not really need to use hexamine. You can just use formaldehyde and AN in the nitration. This will also help to somewhat reduce the concentration/or quantity of HNO3 that is required if the formaldehyde that is being used is in its solid form. But if only the liquid solution of formaldehyde is available, better to make the hexamine. But the solid form of formaldehyde can also be prepared from its liquid solutions through distillation using a little H2SO4 acid as a catalyst.
60 grams of 30% concentrated ammonia solution contains about 1 mole of NH3. 4 moles of NH3 condenses with 6 moles of CH2O to form 1 mole of hexamine. 30 grams of solid formaldehyde contains the equivalent of 1 mole of CH2O.
Brief Explosive Properties- Very high brisance, many explosive mixtures can be formed from it, more stable then PETN and ETN. RDX when exploded in air has about 1.5 times the explosive power of TNT per unit weight and about 2.0 times per unit volume.
>>28354362
4)Picric Acid(C6H3N3O7)-VOD- 7,350m/sec
RE Factor-?
Also Called- 2,4,6-trinitrophenol (TNP)
Synthesis-anhydrous phenol is sulfonated with fuming sulfuric acid, and the resulting p-phenolsulfonic acid is then nitrated with concentrated nitric acid. During this reaction, nitro groups are introduced, and the sulfonic acid group is displaced. The reaction is highly exothermic, and careful temperature control is required. Another reaction involves the use of the active ingredient in aspirine from...
http://www.powerlabs.org/chemlabs/picric.htm, and,
http://web.mit.edu/semenko/Public/Military%20Manuals/RogueSc...
The Problem-I tried the acetylsalicylic acid derived from aspirine method but it didn't work, no information on that is available because I did it a long time ago. Further tests are not possible as my stock of nitric and sulphuric acids have finished.
Brief Explosive properties- Metal picrates and picric acid are highly explosive.
>>28354387 continued:
Synthesis of pentaerythritol(Megalomania's method)- Prepare a solution of 800 g of paraformaldehyde and 165.5 mL of acetaldehyde in 5.5 L of water. Add to this solution 180 g of powdered calcium oxide in small portions with rapid stirring, a mechanical stirrer is advised. The rate of addition of the calcium oxide is adjusted such that the temperature of the solution rises to 50 °C over a 30 minute period with the first portion. The addition of each subsequent portion should not be allowed to raise the temperature above 55 °C. After the addition is complete, stirring is continued for 3 hours. The solution will become yellowish. After stirring, the solution is filtered to remove any contaminant particles, and the yellow filtrate is acidified with just enough hydrochloric acid to make it acid to litmus paper. It is recommended to decolorize the filtrate; add the decolorizer, stir for 5 minutes, and then filter again.
The colorless filtrate is now concentrated under reduced pressure until crystals begin to separate. Since it is rather inconvenient to run the entire lot, divide the solution into portions. The concentration can be done with a vacuum distillation setup. Using a 500-mL flask, add 200-300 mL of solution, when 40% of the water (80-120 mL) has boiled over, stop the distillation and add the next portion.
>>28354407 continued:
Eventually you should have approximately 3 L of concentrated solution left. Heat this solution on a steam bath, while hot, suction filter it to remove any contamination. Any precipitated crystals that get caught on the filter can be washed through by wetting with steam. The filtrate is now allowed to stand in a refrigerator overnight, whereupon the first crop of crystals will precipitate. These crystals are filtered to collect them. The filtrate is then boiled down to about 2 L, and again refrigerated overnight. A second crop of crystals will form; these can be filtered to collect them like before. The filtrate is now boiled down to about 1.2 L, refrigerated overnight, and the subsequent crystals are collected by filtration. The filtrate is finally boiled down to the consistency of syrup, refrigerated overnight, and the last crop of crystals is collected by filtration.
The combined crystals, which should weigh as much as 410-420 g, are recrystallized from an equal weight of hot water containing 10 mL of concentrated hydrochloric acid. This new solution can be decolorized, and then boiled down to obtain several additional crops of pure crystals. Discard the last 30-40 mL. The yield is about 55-57%.
>>28354407
>>28354417
These two should've been continuations of
>>28354349
this post.
>>28354607
What a fag
>all these morons blabbering about "safety"
Explosive devices are already readily available to dangerous people who wish to harm innocents/have historically harmed innocents, e.g. terrorists and government goons. The chemistry behind these items are child´s play. Think about that for a moment.
>>28342361
no, it should be banned, same as full auto arms
>>28354269
>READ A GODDAMN CHEMISTRY BOOK FIRST to make sure I didn't miss anything. You bet your candy ass I will be.
Yes because reading a Sophomore Orgo book will be a great substitute for an actual rigorous education in Chemical Sciences with the math, physics, QM, lab technique, and understanding of basic chemical mechanisms like EAS or activating/deactivating groups. There is so much implied knowledge missing from these bullshit passages I can't even being.
These are dangerous reagents being used in dangerous reactions synthesizing dangerous target molecules that may or may not be unstable and decide to explosively decompose because they feel like it. This is not High School chemistry, you can and will poison/burn/melt/set your house on fire/blow your fucking face off doing things like this when you have no idea what you're doing.
No respect at all for these molecules or the idiots that try to synthesize them in their kitchens.
>>28355727
Missed this fucking gem.
Please provide me with a brief overview for the mechanisms of sulfonation presented here >>28354387 and explain to me possible undesirable side reactions, products, a mathematically rigorous recipe of your choosing, and a few safety hazards.
