What went wrong?
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
What went wrong?
>>28340325
>everything
>>28340325
Not enough development.
Nothing. The Koreans got just what they wanted by learning from US mistakes. Really, countries like Korea and Israel who have primarily defensive militarys are the ones who benefit from an OICW type weapon the most, since they aren't ever going far from their borders. For a military that is focused on international mobility like the US or UK, its just a bit big.
I think they could have saved a lot of space if they didn't insist on having a semi-automatic launcher and having the rifle be detachable. Today t could probably be redesigned much more compact and a little lighter, but there's really no point when you could just throw a single shot "smart" launcher + optic on a normal rifle.
Trying to put everything into one big hulking gun instead of making something simple and light that could actually be fielded. Imagine if they had put the airbursting ammo into a regular under-barrel grenade launcher, or made a standalone pump action gun.
Instead there are other companies making much more practical fieldable weapons like the SAGM. Take a 40mm, swap the huge mechanical safety/fuse with some tiny electronics, then use the extra space for a mini radar that detonates when it detects it passes over walls. It just fucking works and it can be used in existing 40mms.
>>28340325
what about that thing looks pleasant to carry?
it looks awkward to use as a rifle, and heavy as hell vs grenade tech that's been out there since long ago
It weighed too much, cost too much, was too bulky, and everybody who'd actually use it realized we really don't shoot that many offensive grenades
>M203/M320 is primarily used for smoke and illum rounds, primarily carried by fireteam/squad leaders specifically for its signaling ability
Hell the XM25 standalone was still too big, too bulky, too heavy, and too expensive. Generally the people stuck carrying it liked it for its killing power, but even with the 25mm grenades it was overkill most of the time.
>>28340325
>14lbs empty
>most unwieldy thing in the universe
>"What went wrong?"
>>28340325
not enough plastic
the grenades had basically no actual lethality.
>>28340582
They also look like dildos
Holy shit just found this while looking up more airbusting 40mm. ALSETEX Cougar 40mm automatic grenade launcher. Weighs 7.5 lb unloaded.
>>28340569
There's a reason I canned the 8x42 on my 54r ak. And that weight is still well below 14lbs I'm sure. I can't imagine carrying something that's that heavy empty, then adding another 5lbs probably in ammo when loaded up proper...
Is it wrong for me to want one? Did any ever make their way to the civilian market?
>>28340599
There's also so much shit in the stock that makes the LOP so fucking long that wearing that with any kind of armour would be disastrous.
>>28340433
I think a straight pull, or turn bolt action would probably be about as useful as the semi.
>>28340602
>20mm
>grenade
Are you fucking retarded?
>>28340588
false alarm, it's a straight pull action, the article was wrong
>>28340682
what so special about 20mm? you can own 40mm grenade launchers, so....
>>28340723
No, 37mm flare launchers.
>>28340754
its easier to buy a 37mm, yes, but not impossible to not
>>28340754
In Canada M203s are actually non-restricted firearms because finding actual 40mm ammo is pretty much non-existent.
>>28340682
>What is class 3
>>28340325
What happened to the chinese one that used a single shot bolt action?
>>28340912
Still around, just not deployed much because the PLA is poorer than they would have you believe.
>>28340325
Hl2 beta was leaked
>>28340561
>overkill most of the time.
That's what they said about early assault rifle concepts in WWI.
>>28340582
neither do 40mm, so moot point
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqyLoU_0Av4
>>28340325
Nothing.
its an S&T Daewoo K11 not the OICW
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%26T_Daewoo_K11
>>28343508
>hand motions intensify
>>28343508
needs more airburst
>>28343508
>Never fired an 40mm
Fuck off noguns
>>28343695
>random internet guy knows more than former Delta Force operator
yeah, no
>>28343508
>High Explosive grenade
>Judges lethality by fragmentation
>>28343751
We believe you friend ;-)
>>28343778
The reason our mortars, hand grenades, artillery shells, 40mm rounds and so on are fragmentation weapons is that this way you get the most lethality out of a given weight and volume. The lethal radius of a 40mm round that exchanges fragmentation mass for explosive mass would be smaller. What do you think the kill radius of the 32 grams of Comp B alone would be that's usually in a 40mm round? Fragmentation is and remains the number 1 wonding and kill mechanism.
>>28343867
Feel free to contribute anything actually meaningful to the discussion. ...if you can
>>28343751
>gets all his gun info from youtube
Your delta guys gets paid to have an opinion.
also this:
>>28343778
>>28343890
I'm sorry, did I miss an argument by the other poster? Let me take a look, just a sec. Uhh, no not a single argument there. Just posing/bragging.
>>28343889
Feel free to provide some proof
The burden of proof lies with you, not with me my friend ;-)
So I'm afraid if you can't back up your claims... Well, let's just say I'm still unconvinced
Go take a timestamp photo of something worthwhile. But that's okay because I know you can't
>>28343946
proof to dispell this post: >>28343695 ?
Where there is no discussion there is no discussion. Sorry for you.
>>28343508
>>28343751
The fact the 40mm survived decades and is invested in again with the M320 says enough.
Killing everything inside a radius of 5m (5.4yards) is very lethal.
The way you try to support your retarded claim the 40mm has no lethality with a youtube video, sponsored buy a body armor company, showing a former SF guy shooting some eggs at cardboard targets and saying "the 40mm is not as lethal as presented in movies".... That just shows you have absolute 0 experience with grenade launchers.
>>28344359
If you had read carefully you'd have noticed the actual point was that the supposed lack of lethality of sub-40mm grenades round isn't an argument against them as the 40mm is already not as lethal as is widely believed. And since that doesn't speak against the 40mm neither should the point about sub-40mm.
But thanks for showing your lack of reading comprehension. Keep arguing against statements nobody made, bro.
>>28344422
>If you had read carefully
>>28344451
>my stupidity was exposed so I dismiss everything with a reaction pic
You rock, m8!
>>28340561
20mm grenades are overkill compared to what? The standard 40mm that are issued to grenadiers?
Source on your statement
>>28340588
>>28340688
that mag design is lame
>>28343580
this
40×46mm airburst when
>>28344754
>>28340325
The same thing that went wrong with the actual OICW that you mistakenly didn't post. The gun is trying to do too much and ends up being way too big and way too heavy. In the end, the focus ended up being on modularity as opposed to the "this gun can fill all roles" nonsense that the OICW was designed for. Why have a one-size-fits-all gun if you can adapt your gun to do different things for different situations?
>>28344422
>the grenades had basically no actual lethality.
>neither do 40mm, so moot point
>lack of reading comprehension
What is there to comprehend? What is there to read carefully?!
You literally state 40mm do not have lethality.
Nice try with all that 'sub-40mm grenades'bullshit. You really are a retard without any experience.
>>28340325
It would have been ultra cool if I was still a kid
Otherwise, my total awe at this weapon's alt fire is hampered by the thought that it probably weighs a ton, although if you only gave these to people who would otherwise be the squad m203 then I could perhaps see this not being a problem with some reassesment on his kit.
>>28345764
Well, weighing a fuckton was one of the major reasons of its failure, so yeah.
The other was that it somehow wasn't a gun that did literally everything.
>>28345760
>What is there to comprehend?
Well, just go back to the start of the discussion here: >>28343508
Clearly a response to somebody who claims the problem with OICW and related stuff is that sub-40mm lack lethality. Now if you try to be an autist and take the wording literally just to prove how much of an idiot you are then of course you must see my answer as "literally no lethality". But if you're not then you see I just respond in equal tone to make a larger point. And that point I already explained. You just refuse to acknowledge it in order to have something to argue against. If you did acknowledge it you'd have no argument at all.
>>28345819
>the grenades had basically no actual lethality.
>neither do 40mm, so moot point
> supposed lack of lethality
Taking statements seriously 'supposedly' makes you an autist.
>>28343778
>thinking 30 grams of explosives could produce meaningful blast wave
>>28345724
XM-25 is difficult to fit in the squad as it leaves grenader without self-defence and close combat capability.
>>28340818
Why the fuck would they even bother releasing it in any capacity whatsoever to civilians?
Stop being retarded
>>28340723
Yeah, sure, but you literally have to pay hundreds of dollars per round aside from chalk, so why the fuck would you want to? It's pointless.
>>28346657
Because some people like to have fun you fucking retard. Do you think at Knob Creek when they fire the weird and old machine guns or anti tank guns they're thinking about how much maintenance they'll need to do afterwards or ammo costs? You're such a fucking faggot.
>>28346172
normal people are able to read the meaning out of a statement. autists read like a symbol processing machine.
>>28340520
There already is a pump action, magazine feed grenade launcher.
>>28346986
Literally why the fuck would they bother releasing cutting edge Class III grenade launcher systems to civilians? They would be tens of thousands of dollars and every grenade would be hundreds of dollars. Shooting old shitty machine guns and shooting class III grenade launchers are completely different things you fucking retard
You're literally braindead, that's like selling M242 Chain Guns to civilians just because "some people like to have fun lol"
Stop arguing just for the sake of it, you sound like an autistic little kid
>>28347045
Because private civilians are more likely to pay for it you fucking retard. Why do you think people can buy and sell artillery pieces, because it's their money. Someone's PaK or any 57mm or larger anti tank gun requires far more money when you're paying for it. And guess what, people are willing to buy products, who would have guessed like oh my gosh OMG people buy things with their money and companies exist to make sales #wtftrufax
Shocking, isn't it?
>>28347045
>They would be tens of thousands of dollars and every grenade would be hundreds of dollars.
Not that anon but do you think the the civilian NFA and body armor markets dont exist? Because prices are respectively the same, and those markets are more than large enough to sustain a cottage industry.
>>28347099
This is just not true, the amount of people who actually buy these niche products are in the single digits, while the amount of ten year olds on youtube saying they want them is in the thousands
If there was so much money in selling failed military technology, the Stoner 63 would be mass produced in semi auto, the AR-18 would be a direct competitor to the AR-15 and the XM8 would be a real gun.
It's not profitable, basically, and it will never happen, ESPECIALLY not with fucking grenade launchers you literal retard
>>28347125
>civilian NFA
I should have said civilian pre-ban machine gun
This also ignores that Anzio is able to stay alive doing things like selling their 20mm rifles to civilians.
>>28340325
"In the summer of 2010, the United States Army began field testing the XM25 in Afghanistan, with an initial per-unit cost of the early models ranging from US$30,000 to $35,000.[12]"
Cost compared to a $20,000 Mk 19 belt fed grenade launcher or $1,082 M203 under-barrel grenade launcher.
Cost per round of 25mm: $55 per round.
Cost per round of 40mm: $30 - 70.
>>28347028
I meant one for the 20mm / 25mm ammo
