See you in hell Billy Yank
anyone here wanna tell me why the rebs are the bad guys in history when The union was the clear and obvious aggressor and if any yankee fag wants to challenge me
I'm sure that a splintered USA would have turned out real well and would have looked nothing like Western Europe in times of war.
t. Virginian
>>28322969
A little thing called slavery, which has no place in America the land of the FREE.
>>28322979
>people
Also, the union won. History is a set of lies agreed upon, created by the guys who win the wars.
Because they were fitting to maintain an outdated social system, an agrarian one based on the old world, and still semi-feudal.
The US was entering into the period of industrial revolution, the European countries were all modernizing and capitalism was ascending.
The south stood in the way of Americas progression into a capitalist nation. Instead of viewing the civil war as an event distinct from the revolution, it should be viewed as its continuation.
The civil war represented the final triumph of the bankers, traders, and factory owners (I.e. Modern capitalists) over the landed aristocracy. It was the final removal of European feudal influence.
Any with more than half a brain cell knows its not "good guys vs bad guys"
Political decisions were made after the war to treat the mythologize the confederate war effort with mythologized notions of valor and bravery. This was supposed to heal woulds and return dignity to the South.
I doubt they could have foreseen that 150 years later people would cling to those romantic fantasies as a proxy for manhood.
>>28322979
> slavery has no place in America
It's not as if the guys signing the Constitution were mostly slave owners or anything.
Also, free niggers have been a plague on this nation for 150 years.
>>28323004
Exactly, it's always rich guys vs rich guys, both of whom are using poor guys as fodder proxies
>>28323097
Who is the ideological father of America? Jefferson?
>>28323111
Who not only owned slaves, but fucked them silly at every opportunity?
Jefferson.
>>28322969
Whatever you inbred hick. Go cry about how Sherman fucked your great great great great grandma.
Could it be, maybe, JUST MAYBE, because the CSA started the war? A war they fought to perpetuate their right to own and use human beings as property? Call me crazy, but I think that's pretty damned bad.
>1/10, got me to reply
Fuck off with your "War of Northern Aggression" bullshit you southern fried retard
>>28323123
I disagree.
Paine is the ideological father of America. An abolitionist who favored progressive income tax, old age pensions, and anticipated the Universal Basic Income.
Common Sense did more for the American nation than the DoI.
:^)
Civil war had nothing to do with slavery you dumb bastards. Slavery was just the excuse they used to legitimate reason their cause. There was as far more reasons.
>>28323149
>muh other reasons
>doesn't list them
I remember when I got history lessons from my drunk dad on the couch.
Didn't the south literally start the war with the battle of fort Sumter?,that's a pretty fuckin aggressive act
>>28323137
Whats the story?
>>28323195
Not that anon.
But Sherman would wrap railroad track sections around telegraph poles and trees as a fuck you to the secesh.
>>28323206
>Noice
>>28322969
>if any yankee fag wants to challenge me
We already did, you lost.
well aren't you just a salty Sally, gonna cry over your lost war?
>>28323206
He would twist them instead of just bending them, making repair nearly impossible for the south that was already lacking the iron needed to make railroads.
A very effective "Fuck you" to the secesh.
The south was right
>>28323129
> doesn't even know what aggresion means
>>28323268
It was to make it more difficult to repair. Had to chop down the tree to recover the rail and the fire to heat up the rails was made from the railroad ties so they would have to be repaired/replaced too. Not a insult tactic, just a practical calculation on how to make it more difficult. Burning a bridge was good as well. The whole bridge would have to be replaced but bridges could be protected, a random stretch of track could not.
>secede
>nobody acknowledges your legitimacy
>nothing happens
>attack federal property
>still bitch about muh northern aggression 100 years later
>>28323296
4chan is going through its comically racist phase, so naturally they would all side with the south.
>>28322969
>Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.
>Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.
>All of SC's declaration of secession.
>[W]e were immediately taken before Gen. Lee, who demanded the reason why we ran away; we frankly told him that we considered ourselves free; he then told us he would teach us a lesson we never would forget; he then ordered us to the barn, where, in his presence, we were tied firmly to posts by a Mr. Gwin, our overseer, who was ordered by Gen. Lee to strip us to the waist and give us fifty lashes each, excepting my sister, who received but twenty; we were accordingly stripped to the skin by the overseer, who, however, had sufficient humanity to decline whipping us; accordingly Dick Williams, a county constable, was called in, who gave us the number of lashes ordered; Gen. Lee, in the meantime, stood by, and frequently enjoined Williams to lay it on well, an injunction which he did not fail to heed; not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.
You're right about one thing; the Union was the aggressor. It was the Republicans who intended to ring the slave South with 'free waters, free territories, and free states', to deprive Southern slavery of its necessary Federal support, and it was the Republicans who worked, from when Lincoln was elected too office, to make that happen.
Trouble is, the South had it coming. Aggression against the owners of other human beings is perfectly justified. As they would say in Richmond, 'Sic Semper Tyrannis'.
>>28323312
It's been going through that phase for years now, my dude. It's just that this time they're all righties instead of lefties because now the lefties are in power.
>>28323316
whatever opinion is popular, 4chan will have the opposite.
>>28323186
Na. We asked the Yanks to leave. They didn't. So we had to kill em.
>>28323333
>We asked the Yanks to leave.
Why? It was their property. Sounds like you were trying to mug them, honestly.
>>28322999
This
>>28323333
>gimmie ur property
>I'll shoot you if you don't
>>28323314
>and it was the Republicans who worked, from when Lincoln was elected too office, to make that happen.
South Carolina seceded before Lincoln was even inaugurated. Slavery was a derisive issue for more than 50 years before the Civil War.
>>28322969
Try to fracture a country you get your ass whooped deal with it loser. Also south will never secede because you confederatetards are a minority compared to real Americans.
>>28323341
>>28323344
Property the state let the Feds use does not equal the Fed's property.
>>28323370
Property that the Fed built, maintained, and legally owned makes it the Fed's property.
Your """state""" didn't lease them anything.
>>28323358
> Ass whooped.
More like ran out of people and supplies. When we had the man power we almost always stomped Yankee ass.
>>28322969
>The Union was the aggressor
>The South literally fired the first shot
10/10 got me to reply, see me after class, gr8 b8.
>>28323378
>More like ran out of people and supplies.
that's sort of how you win wars, scrub.
>>28323378
Sounds like you got your ass whooped real good .
>>28323371
You don't build acreage. What do you think they came in with barges and made the fort?
>>28322991
>Muhammad victors right history
Why do people actually believe this?
>>28323391
>Fort Sumter
>acreage
What the fuck?
>>28322969
south started it
albeit, Lincoln goaded them into it for justification
but they still fired the first shot
>be SC
>we secede nao
>get out of our fort yankee fags, hicks only
>no, this federal fort was built by the united states government with their money, its ours
>lol we blockade u and fire on your relief vessels even tho they aint shooting at us
>I know you guys are sitting there not doing shit or shooting at us but we gon bombard u
>haha we win
Then Sherman comes 4 years later and the hicks still have the gall to bitch about a war they started and lost, let alone reenact it.
>>28323382
If the CSA had equal supplies and manpower from the start of the war we would have won. No?
You know we would have.
>>28323408
>If the CSA had things we didn't have, we would have won!
Who fucking cares?
>>28323408
Doesn't matter, you got your ass whooped.
>>28323408
Probably would have won if they had AKs too, but they didn't.
>>28323408
>If the situation was completely different, the outcome would have been different
You don't say?
>>28323408
If the USA had strategic bombers the war would've been a lot shorter, no?
You know it would have.
Your hypothetical is absurd, because >>28322999
>>28322969
>>28323378
You brought over niggers and now we are stuck with them, you stupid fucking Southern trash.
>>28322999
*hand rubbing and clapping intensifies*
>>28323435
This is why people resent the South. Too fucking lazy to do their own farm work and now we're stuck with them forever, at least we have experience unlike the Europeans.
>>28323416
>>28323418
>>28323420
>>28323423
Y'all the point is, our men were more motivated, skilled, and led better. Had we equal footing with the Union, we would have won.
Being real here, I understand it was for the best that the Union won. But most of us Southerners will always be proud of the way our ancestors fought. I know all of y'all won't understand.
>>28322979
You mean that little thing they had in the North too?
>>28322979
I mean, I hate Britbongs as much as any good American should, but they did get rid of slavery well before we did. Then again, we could have had a peaceful phasing out of slavery if Abe hadn't gotten greedy and left the CSA alone to their own devices.
>tfw the confederacy got rid of slavery on their own before the war ended
>tfw the CSA could have just been annexed eventually because us southerners had jack shit going except agriculture in a soon-to-be industrial world
>>28323467
>Had we equal footing with the Union, we would have won
So what you're saying is, if the CSA was a completely 'nation' they would have won? because that's what you're saying.
>>28323467
>our men were more motivated, skilled, and led better
Ya so much better yet they got their asses whooped and lost.
I don't mean to sound like some conspiracy theorist, but I'm always fairly hesitant to 100% believe any part of history where it's clear that there's a bias towards one side.
Of course we think of the CSA as backwards slavers and the Union as glorious, shining knights come to free slaves from their oppressors, because the Union won. Not to imply that Lincoln wasn't right to do what he did, because preserving the Union was absolutely the best course of action.
Was the war really over slavery? Fuck if I know, because it happened over a hundred years ago. Of course the North would've said anything after the fact to justify invading the South and starting the bloodiest war in American history.
>>28323467
>and led better
>>28323400
It's not our fault you guys didn't have the balls or the legal authority to execute the former CSA leadership to keep them from writing their own account of things.
>>28322969
The south never truly seceded because most of the south didn't actually want to leave. You had people flooding from other states to force a secession by flooding votes. A lot of good people died because of a selfish few
>>28323439
I happen to be anti-capitalist actually.
But that doesn't mean I am in favor of an agrarian semi-aristocracy wrapped up with race "science".
>>28323467
>i have to say y'all online to let everyone know im southern
>>28322969
Thank god the south did not win, we would living under communist real of Soviet Russia right now.
>>28322999
So basically they stood in the way of industrial rich guys exploiting the fuck out of everyone by just exploiting a smaller group and selling their raw materials to people who were offering them a much better price?
>>28323508
I reckon...
>>28323499
>A lot of good people died because of a selfish few
Welcome to almost every war in human history.
The brits abolished slavery without all the fanfare, rhetoric and especially hypocrisy
>>28323528
Fun fact, words like reckon, ought, etc get used by British folks a lot. Can make for some confusing realizations.
>>28323517
>south wins
>needs urban working class for industrialization
>abolishes slavery by 1890
>institutes apartheid system
>northern politics polarized by the war
>southern sympathy is a certain political death
>radical republicans, socialists, trade unionists, freed slaves take leadership roles
>peaceful transition to first socialist state
>support national-liberation movements of confederate blacks
>US history filled with bush wars, border disputes, guerrilla actions
Meh. Not bad.
>>28323540
Yes we immigrated from Europe. Who the fuck knew?
>>28322969
The rebels fired first though.
>>28323499
My family was part of those people who really didn't want to leave the Union.
>be great great great grandpa Ulysses
>inna Butler county Kentucky
>gol darn Confederate neighbor counties everywhere
>runs as the only republican state senator south of the Mason-Dixon line
>wins
>tfw we spend the next century fighting the CSA and then KKK
>feels good man
>>28323526
>implying the social condition of proletarian isn't preferable to serf or slave
Please.
>>28323549
Nah, some parts of the US were conquered into submission. Like the South.
>>28322969
I don't give a shit who won, but America needed/needs to remain united regardless as that risks the Monroe Doctrine suffering a critical failure and allows foreign influence to gain a foot hold thus threatening us all.
T.Manifest Destiny
>>28322979
You're right.
We never should have brought those niggers to America.
God imagine how militarily powerful and more unified an America would look today if they just had an Australian immigration policy.
>>28322969
>why the rebs are the bad guys in history
Because they lost. lrn2moldbug
>>28323584
I'm a rebelfag and that made me laugh...good job.
>>28323593
So we're all in agreement that niggers are the problem. For both the south and the Union, USA as a whole.
Well I haven't learned anything new.
>>28323408
Manpower and supplies being equal the CSA still would have lost due to the massive deficiencies in railroads, shipbuilding, and heavy industry.
>>28323625
This. Logistics will best combat experience. Fresh powder, troops, medical supplies and food.
I don't care if you're a god damn ye old navy seal, bad enough case of diarrhea will kill you dead just as a fresh faced kid
>>28323625
Also the US army had the two best generals in the war in Grant and Sherman.
>>28323467
>bothers typing y'all
>uses all of y'all instead of the correct all y'all
Let me guess, you live Pennsylvania and are at least two generations removed from any family member living below the Mason-Dixon Line.
>>28322969
yeah but who won tho?
>>28322989
Whom are you quoting?
>>28323548
More than likely would have seen the CSA rapidly balkanize and come under the influence of European powers while quickly boxed in by new US states. Soil nutrient depletion and improper climate for growing cotton in the Southwest would see conflicts erupt in the Caribbean, Mexico, Central America, and possibly even South America as the former CSA states attempt landgrabs. Arkansas, Tennessee, and other landlocked territories shut out of expanding quickly realign themselves with the USA in an effort to maintain the balance of power.
>>28323652
An alcoholic and a lunatic, wonderful.
>>28323333
>feds gibs me dat
Southrons confirmed for original niggers
>>28323538
>especially hypocrisy
Funny coming from the guys who allowed slavery to happen in the first place because one nigger made the case that since he could own slaves in Africa then he should be able to own them here as well.
>>28323408
You started a war with a technologically and industrially superior opponent and then you cry about not having equal logistics, equipment, or supplies? Sounds like the public school system failed you.
>>28323652
>Sherman
>a good general
>lost every time he engaged anyone in battle
>only got anything done by having his men burn everything when no one was there to stop him
Sure, whatever you say.
>>28323381
Oxymoron alert!
>>28323593
>australians arent niggers
>>28323743
Any worse than Johnston, Hood, Beauregard, or Bragg?
>>28323552
> look at Ferguson
> look at Baltimore
> look at every single MLK Avenue ever
Yeah. You should be proud. Your family sure did our nation a great service.
Drink bleach.
cuz confederators r gay
>>28323786
You've got me there.
>>28323129
>People secede from country
>Started the war
0/10
>>28322969
Both sides were shit. But the north was slightly less shit by virtue of not fighting for the right to deny other human beings their own rights.
So, like, fuck you.
>>28323812
Firstly, States don't have the 'right' to secede. States, being States, do not have rights at all. They can't. It's a conflict of interests. But even (wrongly) assuming that they did...
>Secede from Union
>Fire on Union military installation
>Waaahhh Sherman stop!
Sherman should have marched to Virginia and back.
>>28323794
>the civil war is to blame for ferguson
>the civil war is to blame for baltimore
>the civil war is to blame for roads
seems like a false connection tbqh
>>28323794
if slavery was never a thing, blacks would still be in africa for the most part.
>>28323812
The Constitution allows no provisions for secession. The only state with that right is Texas thanks to a stipulation they made when joining the union.
>>28323903
The constitution that rests on the consent of the governed, written by men who rebelled against their former government?
>>28323408
If the CSA had kinspeople manpower the war would likely not have happened. The whole reason they seceded is they could feel the northern population majority influencing laws thanks to the house. Of course if the south had the same population has the north slavery likely wouldn't have existed since the Southern ruling class used their wealth to control vast tracts of land.
>>28323941
The CSA represented a minority not only in the union but their own lands as well. Since democracy is completely based on the majority rule we can see that the so called Confederate states were illegitimate even in their so called home since slaves outnumbered them
>>28323548
Why the hell would an unbelievably wealthy, pseudo aristocratic ruling class allow any kind of socialist ideology gain traction?
>>28323975
>Constitution
>Ctrl+F "Democracy"
>Zero results found
>>28323858
The release of slaves and the subsequent fight to give them full human rights formed a perinnial social second class who see rape, murder, theivery and sloth as their birthrights. The best option would have been to never import them in the first place. Failing that, we should have either kept them in chains, deported them forcefully back to Africa or just gassed them all. Blacks have not benefitted this nation one bit and have instead been an iron ball on our collective leg since 1865.
All that shit the South was saying about blacks running rampant if they were freed? 100% correct. The Union fucked up.
>>28324006
>Constitution establishes system that recognizes power of majority
>Southerners are neither majority in union or Confederacy
>>28324027
I'm sorry that my cousin raped your sister.
>>28323897
I agree completely. Importing Africans to the New World (or anywhere, for that matter) was the single worst mistake we ever made as a species.
But you don't fix that mistake by letting the apes off their chains. You either keep them there, ship them back or dispose of them.
>>28324056
No sisters. One brother.
I have no idea if he's ever been raped, however.
>>28324047
>Southerners are neither majority in union or Confederacy
>Southerners
>Confederacy
Holy shit, how can you use a computer when you are that dumb
>>28322979
If you ever run into trouble with the law, you'll find out two things-
1) slavery is still PERFECTLY legal, and business is booming
2) everything is illegal and every American is felonious, but YOU will be singled out
Laws exist to give people in costumes an alibi to steal from you.
Everything is illegal in America and 70% of the cost of everything is taxes.
Slavery is actually doing great in America. You can't own land, a car, or a home... you literally rent all those things.
They tell you "freedom isn't free", too! Which means it's a scam. "Pay me money and I'll let you live your life and mind your business" is the definition of extortion.
Fuck this hypocrisy.
>>28324056
> Nigger
> cousin
The Day is coming, shitskin. Better get right with your Gods.
>>28324072
>you literally rent all those things.
please explain
>>28324079
Oh please, whiteboy. You post on 4chan, we all know you don't have the balls to participate in a race war.
>>28324082
If you have to pay a regular tax on something....
Or they come and take it....
You don't own it.
You rent it.
Private property is illegal.
You own your clothes, your toilet paper, and your tv.
You do not own a vehicle meant for use on public roads, you do not own land, and you do not own a house.
>>28324084
Come on out of your ape enclosure and find out.
You know why niggers only burn up their own neighborhoods, right? It's because everywhere else is full of whites just itching for an excuse to kill the everloving dogshit out of them. So you boons throw a hissy fit and burn your own shit down like children. Which is safer than leaving the zoo and getting lit up by people like me.
>>28324067
Whoop typos galore thanks phone. Meant slave owning southerners
>>28324084
Honestly what would a race war look like?
Without modern sanitation citys become cesspits, without farmers & truckers the food supply is cut, without pharmacists AIDS & STD'S will wreck. Blacks are fucked
>>28324119
Oh well yeah no shit, nigs be expensive being KING N SHEEIT.
But they controlled the legislature so more or less they were able to do what they wanted. Key thing was that were able to show it was a war of aggression and Southern boys being the men they are really don't like that.
>>28324137
Race War in the city:
> constant structure fires
> police and NG troops desperately trying to contain the natives
> basic services totally disrupted
> food rationing
> rape and murder not even seriously investigated
Race War in the country:
> "Hey, ah heard them niggers in town done burnt up their shit again."
> "Ayup. TV says they're starvin'."
> *collective chuckle*
>>28322969
Rebels made the first move iirc on Fort Sumter.
>>28322969
>2015
>defending slavery
I get states rights and all that but your entire economy was based on evil
southerners died because they couldn't see the writing on the wall
>>28324096
its almost as if taxes are required for public services to exist.
>>28322979
lol, he thinks the civil war happened because of slavery.
>>28322969
>anyone here wanna tell me why the rebs are the bad guys
Not because they were United States citizens that rebelled against their lawfully elected government, like everyone thinks.
They're bad guys because they're fucking LOSERS and won't shut up about it. They even build monuments to the massive ass-whippings they took.
They're not so much the bad guys of history as they are a running joke.
>>28322969
In short the Confederacy is portrayed as the bad guy because the Union was ultimately the victor, therefore they got to write the history.
In truth, there was no "good guy"
>>28323312
>racist phase
>since 2003
Welcome, newfriend
>>28323476
Yeah, but Lincoln saw the chance to use the freeing of the slaves as a way of convincing and gathering more bodies for the cause. In the end he pretty much only truly gave a fuck about keeping the US whole. Freeing the slaves was a plus to many not here's at the time and was exactly what he needed to rally up more political followers and more cannon fodder. He did want slaves to be free but more so he wanted Lee and Jefferson Davis to eat a dick.
>>28322969
> Attack government fort
> Claim it was totally defensive
>>28323097
The reason slavery really stuck around despite most of the northern founding fathers renouncing/questioning the practice, was the fact that there was no way in hell the south was going to give up slavery, and saying that they would abolish slavery would be damning for the continental congress.
>>28322969
>fire the first shot
>and the second
>not the agressor
Are you drunk?
>>28322969
Fuck off traitor.
>>28322969
Except we did start the war you moron. Secession was about slavery, the war was about us (The South) firing the first shots on Fort Sumter and sinking an armed vessel carrying provisions to the fort and killing a civilian in the process.
>>28324331
That's always very true.
I guess I'm mad because I feel like it's deceptive.
People drill it into your head that America is free, and our freedoms are what makes America great, then you find out freedom isn't real.
>>28324339
It's not an exceptional statement. The burden of proof is really on your side here. The overwhelming majority of the world and scholarly community accept the plain truth about it, which is it was, and that slavery was deeply ingrained, and too profitable to give up.
And it's not some "liberal conspiracy" type consensus, EVERYONE who isn't a total fucking delusional idiot accepts it, no matter how liberal or conservative they are.
And I mean that last bit. You are a fucking idiot or delusional if you don't get it after examining the relevant materials. I don't owe you courtesy for spouting your shitty, deluded opinion.
>>28323486
>Was the war really over slavery?
Yes.
>the north would have said
No, the south said this. The letters of secession are very clear.
>>28324451
The founding fathers were all traitors. George Washington was a traitor. Treason is literally the first American tradition.
>>28324457
>armed
>sinking
white star was an unarmed, civilian vessel under government contract, and was not sunk.
Her escort was armed, but did not enter to harbor as a show of good faith.
>>28324512
Sorry I had meant to say unarmed, which was my point.
>>28324503
No. It was states rights.
Besides, slavery was a monumental mistake. The ultimate lesson in buyers remorse. The cotton gin has actually existed for thousands of years, Eli Whitney didn't invent shit.
You've been indoctrinated.
>>28324496
look man, if you want real genuine freedom, go live in the woods. the cost of living in civilized society is losing a bit of your freedom, and it will always be the case.
>>28324382
Shit, *northerners*
>>28324529
>No. It was states rights.
Go do a side by side of the US and confederate constitutions and tell me that.
Let me know which is more restrictive.
It's neither. The ONLY right in question was slaves. The only fucking one.
The south wanted the money they made off of niggers, wanted the extra representation in the federal government (because they couldn't STAND the idea of not getting disproportionate representation), and didn't want to lose the money, or have their backwards fucking ideals outvoted by the more populous north and blacks.
>indoctirnated
Gee, I guess the guys who wrote these were also indoctrinated by our insidious, time traveling northern public schools.
http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html#
Niggers in the first paragraph, every time.
Race mixing comes up a lot too.
>>28324004
First set is the south after the war, second set is the north after the war.
The industrialists, as a new wing of the bourgeoisie, are too disorganised to prevent the seizure of the Republican Party by radicals. Massive numbers of defeated veterans make up a much more militant working class movement, they align themselves with free blacks, seeing them as sharing in their defeat.
>>28323772
I bet your'e one of those retards who thinks Scipio was more responsible for defeating Hannibal than Fabius Maximus
ITT: worthless racists and scum try to tell others how bad non-whites are
>>28324757
If there was a master race that had some footing to claim that others are subhumans, I would give them some consideration. If this was not an anonymous imageboard, I would becable to merely look at the people spouting this nonsense to know their point is refuted
>Union aggressors
>first shots of the war were fired by Rebs
stay mad, hicks
Also I'm not a bleeding heart save the niggers type. Abe did nothing to free slaves in the South.
>implying the Emancipation Proclamation wasn't just a tactic used to hurt Southern economies
>>28324744
Found the guy who's mad his favorite war criminal sucked when he wasn't killing non-combatants.
>>28324382
That does explain why he tried to bribe to South into rejoining him by saying they could keep their slaves.
>>28324496
Taxes are evil. No other way around it- they are evil.
But it's a NECESSARY evil. We, as a society, have to agree on paying something so that we can have public services that we all want but no one wants to pay for privately, or would simply never get around to it until it's too late. Which is why the use of taxes sometimes becomes an issue. We don't want the people spending those taxes to be throwing it all away beating up brown people in the middle east and making no real gains. Them taxing you on owning property is just a way to figure out who gets taxed, it's not meant to be an attack on personal freedom.
>>28324534
This. Read Civil Disobedience if you haven't (although you probably have) and disagree with it. It's a good way to look at how that thinking is wrong. Oh or just read the Articles of Confederation to see why you need taxes.
I think the civil war was needed to keep the US together, and Lincoln was the example of when the president has to use his executive powers to defy congress. But the handling of reconstruction was where we really went downhill. We allowed Jim Crow while somehow breaking the South's economy even more.
>>28323479
Britbongs got rid of "slavery" but not slavery.
The Brits had indentured servitude. Which was just Slavery with a contract. They has the same choices slaves did as well. "Ok, work for me or else you go to jail, or get hanged. You pick."
Also, Black slaves were actually treated far better in some cases than indentured servants.
Or Irish slaves. Which they had more of in the 1600's, and that they treated far, far worse since they were basically free compared to the expensive African slaves.
Point is, Bongs were just as bad. And in the 1600's they were actually far, far worse. And they kept indentured servitude for quite a while after Slavery ended in the U.S.
>>28324886
iirc, US slavery law was just an expansion of indentured servitude law. Not really sure though.
>>28324935
It could have been. Not sure. But in the 1600's and early 1700's the Brits could pretty much turn anyone into a slave if they were in jail, in debt, or an actual "slave." The Irish were taken as slaves for literally hundreds of years, since they were seen as...well...less than human, just like Africans. And they had a huge number of war, or political prisoners due to the numerous Irish revolts and whatnot. Especially in the 1600's.
So. Anyone who tries to use Britain as some sort of "morally superior" argument towards the South and Slavery is retarded.
The first two (prisoners or people in debt) continued well into the 1800's after they abolished slavery in 1808 (1808, i think.)
>>28325001
Just about every population was taken as slaves at some point or another. The middle east took slaves from Africa, other parts of the middle east, and Europe. They were the first human traffickers. US slavery was somewhat unique for having it be a racial thing, with the britbongs doing the same thing to the Irish. Although the US perspective on Irish people was also not promising. I remember the story about someone asking the granddaughter or something of a slave owner if they got slaves to do their roof work, and she replied "Hell no, get the Irish kid down the street to do it so I don't lose anything if he falls off the roof and dies."
>>28323420
>[Turtledove Intensifies]
I'm from north of the Mason Dixon, I as time goes by I sympathize more with the Confederates (not that I agree with them) as I do feel states should have the right to break away, and violently forcing people back into the fold is inherently against freedom. In a lot of ways, I see the North as the Brits and the South as the colonies in the Revolution:
1. One side accuses the other of treason
2. War is mostly based of economic reasons
3. A minority in the breakaway side start violent conflict
It's basically like if the US had lost the revolution, you end up with a primarily agricultural region who has been forcefully shaken up by an outside power, causing years and years of social unrest and deepening regional differences. Don't forgot huge population shifts, like thousands and thousands of blacks migrating to work in northern cities.
I'm neutral to the whole thing, I just have always thought it an interesting comparison and it's fascinating to loom at the scars and divisions that the war caused but could never solve.
>>28324886
That's pretty interesting. I'll have to look into Britbong slave laws a bit more.
>>28323724
If only they had discovered the power of peanuts a few decades before George Washington Carver!
>>28323724
What are the historical grounds for a balkanization of the CSA? The confederate government was more centralized than the US, due to forming in war. It would've had to have maintained this war government due to the close proximity and massive border with the US, and because it would contain a massive population of slaves and a sizeable contingent of slave/northern sympathisers.
I agree, we would've seen expansion into the Caribbean and Latin America, these places at the time were culturally very similar to the southern states, maybe even more similar than the southern states were to the north.
>>28323794
Stay salty fag. If you wanna try and undo it or deport every single black person, be my guest. I won't even try to stop you.
>>28323858
It's also funny that hardly any of these places are in the south. It's almost like the yanks got the short end of the stick in the end because most of the problem cities are on their turf.
>tfw BLM fuckery is nonexistent here because black people don't act like niggers where I'm from
>>28324056
>>28324084
>>28324435
I like you.
>>28325057
I know that slavery was common throughout human history. Hell, it still exists (which makes one scratch their head when they see people complaining about the instance of it hundreds of years ago, and being blind to what goes on today.)
But my whole point in bringing Britain in, was that for Britain it was racial as well. They just targeted more races (blacks and Irish, and in some cases Indians.), and then ultimately their own people through indentured servitude, once "slavery" was outlawed.
The other point is that the North is also held up in some sort of higher moral regard, like Britain. Even though their attitudes towards race and equality were almost identical to that of Britain's (who was much worse in terms of who they used and abused.)
The South was racial. But they chose a race who looked different from them. Which made them go down in more infamy than they should have. The North set up a system to keep entire families dependent on dangerous, and low paying work and they viewed their workers (mostly poor Irish and blacks, along with other minorities.) as expendable. The Union military did so as well during the war. They saw Irish troops as cannon fodder, and like blacks, often segregated them from the "better" men.
So, again, my point is just that holding anyone up in any higher regard (North, South, Britain, etc.) during the 16-1800's time period is only due to personal bias and ignorance. Since everyone at that time (as governments and empires. Not necessarily as individuals.) were horrible people.
Any time I see the "Hurr durr Linkin Freed Da Slavez" I cringe. He wanted to deport, or put them on reservations. And had no intention to give them equal rights.
>>28325230
Entire regiments were mustered into service during the Civil War, not individuals. The Irish (and Germans) were generally in their own regiments/brigades because they all signed up for the same unit.
>>28325229
> dat obvious samefaggery
>>28323467
Does it bother anyone else when someone types y'all?
>>28324534
>go live in the woods
Everywhere that isn't claimed isn't livable or reasonably accessible.
>>28325453
No, it's just dialectical. I'm not mad when people type other commonly used words either, just so long as it's not "OMFG WTF LMAO XD!!!!!!"
Honestly I think XD is the most enraging to me, personally.
>>28325383
>responding is same faggotry
Okay
>>28325523
>Everywhere that isn't claimed isn't livable or reasonably accessible.
AKA not civilization.
>>28323812
>People attack a goverment installation.
>Cry for 160 years about we "dindu nuffin".
>I wonder where the negros learned that.
