It happens.
China has taxi-trialed its first serial production J-20 today. Maiden flight soon.
No prototypes anymore. Yellow primer and serial number "2101", indicating that it is the 1st of the "100" lot of LRIP planes.
>"By the time China introduces the J-20 into service, the US will already have 6th Gen en masse"
Hopefully, those fags will eat their words, as promised.
Also, looks like China will get their 5th gen slightly sooner than Russia. Impressive, considering that they began a year later than them.
Yellow J-20 with freshly produced serial J-10Bs
>>28322622
More.
Engines look to be the same as the previous prototypes, ie. uprated WS-10 with silver IR-suppressant coating.
>>28322620
>dat smog
being chinese is suffering
>J-20
>5th gen
do fiddy cents actually believe stuff like this?
LRIP 2101 should be exactly like the last prototype #2017, as in raised canopy with 'F-22' styled gold coating.
>>28322631
Better view on the EOTS and other systems on the Prototype #2016
>>28322635
#2016 flying with retracted gear and luneburg lense
>>28322637
#2016 with AFB in full effect
>>28322630
At least it is more 5th gen than Russia's shit.
Getting closer to maiden flight now...
WS-15 when?
>>28322689
Next year, probably.
>>28322645
As if adding insult to injury it was actually Russia who introduced the concept of jet fighter generations in the first place.
Aww come on.
censorship's going too far
>>28322708
You should see the 001A leaked pics. It's almost like an art competition when they use loads of effects for secrecy purposes.
Passing the torch; 45th anniversary of the Chengdu Aircraft Company (611 Institute) and the ceremony for the J-20's LRIP.
>>28322710
that's why I wait until someone does a 'translation' via CG.
>>28322703
Actually that was Lockheed Martin when they marketed the F-22 back in 97~
Interesting to see that, despite being in primer, the leading edges of the control-surfaces already have that RAM-coating. Or maybe they are made with RAM composites already.
>Production model
>Still no engines
>>28322757
It has engines, though.
Giving it acceptable maneuverbility and acceleration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0RNcdGVCtM
>>28322764
>acceptable
[citation needed]
>>28322772
180° turn in 5-7 seconds is pretty good, no matter where.
>>28322645
>>28322703
Ha, bullshit.
The PAK FA is shit compared to the F-22, but it trounces the J-20. Hell, I bet the avionics on the Su-35 is miles ahead of the Chinese.
>>28322689
Towards the end of the decade, after they disassemble their Su-35s.
>>28322858
T-50
>No S-duct
>rivets, rivets everywhere
>RCS reduction? What's that?
>But we have a rear-facing radar!!!111
J-20
>Actual VLO design
>S-duct and DSI
>EOTS and EODAS
>GaN AESA
Ya know, Kopp is a huge fucking Russiaboo who is scaremongering Russian weapons asf. But even he agreed that the T-50 is merely and barely a LO design, not a true stealth fighter.
The only thing it will beat the J-20 in is close range dogfighting due to its TVC. But anything else, the J-20 will be the world's 2nd best 5th gen after the F-22 and above the F-35.
>>28322625
>WS-10
You mean AL-31?
>>28322876
>rivets
Nope.
>>28322626
>amerifats actually believe this
it's tactical smoke deployed to obscure anyone trying to observe from a distance.
>>28322645
>At least it is more 5th gen than Russia's shit.
Actually it's not. PAK FA is only bad when compared to the F-22, but against Chinese stuff? Nah.
>>28322620
I don't believe you
sauce ?
>>28322876
can someone explain me pic please ?
now waiting for the water version
>>28323224
I dont know if you are serious.
You want to tell me that this lack of engine housing is somehow better than the all-flush fuselage of the J-20?
It honestly looks like a 4th gen fighter, all things considered.
>>28323307
The dbsqm scale (radar return scale) is coded in color below the graphic. The pixels are the return-strength of the radar-waves, scattering everywhere. What is interesting is not the red and yellow in the middle of the pic (since this is exactly were you want the enemy radar waves to be deflected when they come from the front), but the blue dots before the plane's nose. Blue means that they are about -8,5 to -5 dbsqm, which is far from being VLO. The more of those pixels are visible at the front, the more a radar will pick up returns when sending radar waves against the nose of the T-50.
Ideally, the nose section should have more purple or grey pixels; this gives it about -29,5 to -22,5. The F-22 is estimated to have an overall frontal RCS of -33~ dbsqm.
Here, the J-20's graphic for comparisson. The frontal part is mostly purple and gray-beige, which would be in the -19 to -29 dbsqm range.
>>28322626
I don't think that's smog.
Some photos of the previous later protos.
>>28324716
The cover for the IFR-probe is visible here
>>28322876
>above the Lockheed Martin Fighter Thirty Five Lighting Two Joint Strike Fighter
The shit you chinks post for 50¢
>>28324688
Chinese are literally buying canned air, a fucking joke gift, for $15-20 a pop.
>>28324753
Americans do the same. A few people's actions don't represent the majority.
I agree that China has shit smog, but that looks like humidity/fog.
>>28323307
A guesstimate of a planes RCS based on its shape.
They tend to not be accurate, see the ones for the PAK-FA.
>>28324748
Both of you guys are sourceless
He at least knows the terminology and what does what.
>>28322620
Its already theorized that the USA is developing their 6th gen plane. One plane from fresh production does not mean it is "in service" when they are still doing trials and refining the jet. So yes, by the time China has the J20 in mass production for field use, USA could very wellhave a6th gen aircraft "enmasse"
>>28324770
>Americans do the same.
No, they don't.
The demand in China is absurd.
>>28324514
J-20 is pretty much a Mig 1.44, a defunct Soviet project.
>it looks like a Su-27, i don't like it
Your opinion is irrelevant, it's not you who decides what is 5th gen and what isn't.
>>28324781
Yes we know Kopp knows his shit. he should stop browsing 4chan though.
>>28324781
Cue the chart where Kopp put the F-111 on par with gen 4.5 aircraft.
>>28324795
It's not 5th Gen if 4++ Gen fighters can match it's clean RCS like for like.
More like 4.75/4+++ Gen Fighter
>>28324795
>
I have yet to see refinements on the T-50 like on the J-20, such as an RCS-reduced enclosure for the IRST, or a flush surface with rivets hidden. Or a fucking S-duct.
Sorry, as much I want to believe that Yellow shitskins cant into stealth unlike whites, I have to say that the Russians here totally pooped the bed with this one.
>>28324795
>J-20 is pretty much a Mig 1.44, a defunct Soviet project.
It really isn't, even the Eurofighter has more in common with the MiG 1.44
Inb4 you quote some former Soviet official who had nothing to do with the project.
>>28324824
China is buying Su-35s and you think they can make a 5th-gen? Get real.
Go back to /r/AsianMasculinity/.
>>28324855
China's buying the Su-35 as stopgap measure until the J-11D and J-16D Sino-Growler are mass-produced.
Both of those feature more advanced avionics and weapon loadout than the Su-35, whose only desirable feature is its TVC engine.
But as the Indians have experienced, the TVC was the single biggest reason for the shit reliability of their Su-30MKI. So, it is questionable whether the undeniable advantage in WVR due to TVC weights up to the maintenance nightmare that comes with it.
>>28324831
Try comparing pictures of the different PAK FA prototypes.
>>28324726
>Chinese dragon tattoo
>>28324894
annoying watermark of the photograph
because
>muh original pic do not steal, fucking jane's/kopp etc
>>28324831
Chinks are famous for making replicas of everything.
Just because it looks like a BMW doesn't mean it's a BMW.
I stopped taking the J-20 seriously after I saw canards
>>28324855
That's my fucking point you dunce
Neither China nor Ruskies are at 5th Gen yet
>>28324882
On paper Chery cars are better than Honda cars. But on practice Chery cars are some of the worst in the world.
>>28323184
lol, 2 tru desu senpai.
>>28324973
On paper, a PESA is worse than an AESA.
In reality, a PESA is worse than an AESA as well.
>>28324973
And Ladas are worse than all of them combined. Does that mean that Russia makes shit planes too? So what?
>>28322620
Is it me or is that thing enormous?
It looks like a family of 6 would be comfy living in it.
>>28324995
You Chinks tinydick are so backwards that you think AESA is some sort of alien technology that only a few possess.
>>28322669
>>28322625
>>28322622
>all dat smog
Holy fuck I'm suddenly not so critical of the EPA we have here in the states
Get ur shit together chinks.
Sexy plane tho.
>>28325021
Appears quite large, but in fact it is slightly shorter than a Flanker, or the T-50.
>>28325029
>>28324770
>humidity/fog
>in shenyang
>in december
post again and you might earn a whole dollar
>>28325059
It's in chengdu, where's the current humidity is 93% according to google.
Chengdu is the maker of the J-20 and J-10 series. Shenyang does all the Flanker copies.
>>28324831
Bruh there was a thread earlier this week and someone posted pics that confirmed s ducts and that they had replaced rivets with some other flush fasteners.
Nice.
Hopefully, we will see the LRIP in full paint too.
>>28325098
>canards
You can tell Chinese have no idea how stealth works.
>>28324608
>i can judge rcs from the internet!
>>28325100
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-20
>Others have raised doubts about the use of canards on a low-observable design, stating that canards would guarantee radar detection and a compromise of stealth.[60][61] However, canards and low-observability are not mutually exclusive designs. Northrop Grumman's proposal for the U.S Navy's Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) incorporated canards on a stealthy airframe.[62][63] Lockheed Martin employed canards on a stealth airframe for the Joint Advanced Strike Technology (JAST) program during early development before dropping them due to complications with aircraft carrier recovery.[64][65] McDonnell Douglas and NASA's X-36 featured canards and was considered to be extremely stealthy.[66] Radar cross-section can be further reduced by controlling canard deflection through flight control software, as is done on the Eurofighter.[67][68]
>>28325100
Canards = vertical stabilizers, only in the horizontal position.
>>28325027
>one prototype with AESA
chinks putting them on trainers already. get on their level slavboos
>>28325086
Please post. I'm honestly interested how Sukhoi did it.
>>28325163
China needs to put the cheaply made radars to show off and give some material for the Chinese living in USA masturbate to.
But Zhuk-A is above any radar China will produce for the next ten years.
>>28325187
Zhuk-A is quite nice, nothing to say against that, but it is, let's face it, a small diameter AESA with relatively low T/R count. Still, it has good peak power and software integration, but it isnt something I'd put inside a T-50/Flanker sized plane.
Something above 1500 T/R modules of GaN would be nice. If it has Direct Digital Synthesis (DDS), it would be even better.
>>28325187
Radar and avionics isnt something the Chinese are behind with.
If you want to flame them, do that by pointing to their engine technology.
Only now they are equipping their WS-10 with single-crystal superalloy fan-blades, that are powering their Flankers. Took them about 20 years to that point.
Public flash news broadcast sourced from your friendly anonymous shitposter: private American companies have moved past AESA to MESA, Metamaterial Electronically Scanned Radar.
Expect American 6th gen battlespace dominance aircraft to be carrying it.
>>28324770
>humidity/fog.
No. Smog is brown, water vapor and haze shows up as shades of gray ranging to near white.
I lived in the LA area for a few years, I know smog when I see it.
>>28325163
Basically China has the advantage of building up its fighter fleet after AESA became the standard, whereas Russia has to go back and retrofit existing aircraft.
>>28325322
Not bistatic passive quantum-based radars?
WEAK
>>28322764
Its maneuverability is reminiscent of the Su-47 any anyone remembers that plane. No where near the F-22 however. Plus America is already working on 6th gen which is going to be where its at.
>>28325331
If it has bistatic in the name, it's just another sparse phased array...except it's shit.
If quantum buzzwords are what you desire, you need to research optical sensors, not radar.
>>28325367
> optical sensors, not radar.
Yeah, basically LIDAR.
Although I have my doubts about the viability of these extremely high-frequency waves and the implications of their super-short ranges and vulnerability of being jammed by mere water-drops...
On the other hand, long-wave IR is pretty promising. Russian and Chinese cooled IRST with long-band detection could detect the air-compression infront of fast-flying stealth fighters at considerable distance.
>>28322620
Did they finally fix the engine smoke problems?
>>28325187
#mega semiconductor foundries USA >China>>>Russia
Russia needs to give up the ghost and shuffle off this mortal coil already
>>28324784
Actually, if any Chinese planes is getting in the LRIP stage, it is usually pretty close to mass-produciton.
The J-10B, for example, got into LRIP in 2014, and now by 2015, they already procured 70 fighters, enough to equip at least 3 regiments. Of course, the J-10B has taken considerable time from its first flight of the 01 prototype in late 2008 to the first LRIP type in 2014, but still, once it was in LRIP stage, it moved pretty fast.
This year alone, the J-20 prototypes literally flowed from the production lines, with every month a pre-LRIP late stage prototype in its final configuration (4 in number), to accelerate its flight testing schedule before LRIP. Now, with the LRIP shortly before its maiden flight, we might see at least one regiment of J-20s (24 or so planes) by the end of the next year.
>>28325406
Hence, quantum. Presently QWIP is the cutting edge of IR. But in the lab [i.,e. 20 years to fielding], quantum effects also enable lenseless imaging with metamaterial screens, which prevents reflection (and most dazzling) completely without blocking vision.
Further along, there's quantum imaging replacing classical imaging, which completely removes the water droplet problem. You can see through pitch-black smoke with a cellphone camera this way...
>>28325447
The WS-10 and AL-31 never really suffered under the incomplete compustion problem that plagued the RD-33/93.
You are thinking about the J-31, which is powered by the 'flying tractor engine', the RD-93.
>>28325500
Interesting. Do you have good articles to share? Thanks.
Im a complete newfag when it comes to planes but does it really matter how "futuristic" the jets these days are?
I mean they all go fast as shit, like what 1500 kilometers per hour and shoot cpu controlled missiles?
>>28325484
every time I see a J-10, I am impressed by the size of it's vertical stabilizer
>>28325516
Supercruise of at least Mach 1+ without afterburner (since it wastes fuel) is desireable for a 'futuristic plane'.
Missile wise, they all are computer controled in one degree or another these days. Differences are with their rocket engines, aerodynamics, seekers and warheads, where there are huge technological leaps these days.
Basically, a 5th generation plane should have:
-Stealth
-Supermaneuverbility (turning on a dime, like the Russians always do to show off)
-Supercruise (to reach supersonic speeds without after burner)
-Sensor Fusion (which means, it has sensors all around the plane, enabling 360° situational awareness)
The 4++ and 5th gens of all major powers fulfill these points in one or another way.
>>28325575
Supermanouverability is extremely unimportant.
Sensor fusion is also not that, at all, and is standard on many western 4th Gens. Making it not really a 5th generation trait.
Stop talking about things you don't understand.
>>28325637
So, what's your opinion about what a 5th generation plane should have, besides these two points?
>>28322620
>all that smog
Imagine the cancer rates in that shit hole in a decade or two, no way that isn't going to have some serious repercussions
>>28325637
Calm down, Leeroy.
Just because the F-35 doesnt have supermaneuverbility and supercruise, doesnt mean that it isnt a 5th gen plane. It is, albeit one that is more suitable for being a multirole than an air-superiority fighter.
>>28324608
is there an F-22 photo like these ?
>>28325694
The F-35 does have supermanouverability.
Pretty much shows how little you understand about what that term means.
>>28324770
>Americans do the same.
Here's your $0.50.
>>28325706
>supermaneuverbility
having a high instantanious turnrate is fine, but you'll want one that is both sustainable and high.
Bleeding out your energy and altitude with a cobra like this looks badass, but it has questionable use in battle.
>>28325732
Hence why I said it was extremely useless.
Are you illiterate or just knee-jerking whenever you see a term and like being condescending when it isn't necessary?
>>28324770
>>28324753
>china still can't into domestic engines for 4th or 5th gen
>slavs still can't into domestic engines for 5th gen
>US already has a 5th gen fighter in service with another about to be
>work on 6th gen has been publicly announced
get fucked
>>28325739
Hence, the F-35 doesnt have supermaneuverbility. Look at that pic: It is the F-35 doint exactly what I mean. An useless cobra.
>>28325516
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxK6O5--9Z0
>>28325745
>china still can't into domestic engines for 4th or 5th gen
Maybe not 5th gen, but they have their domestic 4th gen engines now. Even powering single-engine fighters like the J-10B, which are requiring an extra-high level of reliability because, well, they only have one engine.
>>28325751
Look up what supermanouverability means you stupid shit
its post-stall manouvering and maintaining nose authority post-stall, not turning rates
What the F-35 is doing in that picture is EXACTLY what supermanouverability means
>>28325779
>F-35
>post-stall
>nose authority
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/test-pilot-admits-the-f-35-can-t-dogfight-cdb9d11a875#.6ppc2hq84
pla thread = guaranteed butthurt amerilards
>>28325875
this isn't even good bait
the F-35 is capable of stable flight at better-than-superbug levels of AoA.
>>28325875
Try actually reading that report.
>>28325575
>>28325637
you're both wrong.
Sensor fusion sure has nothing to do with "360 degrees coverage"... It's about "are my sensors able to fuse their info and tell me there are two planes and not 4 when they see 2 radar echoes and 2 IR signatures?"
Nothing to do with 360° "bubble" radar or optical coverage at all. Even if that's still a desirable thing.
On the other hand, yes, super manoeuverabilty is not important. Being agile enough to get the advantage with the help of a helmet mounted display, and packing enough energy to not bleed it down is largely enough.
>>28325875
None of that disagrees.
also
>war is boring
>>28324914
You realize China makes BMW vehicles?
>>28324793
I am sure I can find some Americans who buy that shit.
>>28325059
>climate expert
>>28325324
I am in Panama today and the fog looks like in the pictures. I only say what I see.
>>28322876
:DDDDDD
>>28322620
Thank you for this information.
As usual, shitposters scream unsourced claims and derail the thread but no one can change that.
Military analysts consider the J-20 a 5th gen, and I agree with them. If it has a squadron by late 2016, it'll have beat the 35A to active service.
>>28327060
IIRC, Japan's now producing their first F-35 to rush it into service in 2016 as well.
>>28327060
>it'll have beat the 35A to active service.
Considering there are already F-35Bs in IOC..
no
>>28327060
>As usual, shitposters scream unsourced claims
Who are you quoting?
If it enters service in 2016 it will match the F-35A.
>>28327216
The marine IOC is a load of shit. It can't carry weapons and still has a number of systems that aren't tested. That and the fact that it's not deployed in numbers anywhere.
Just a PR move.
>>28322620
>>28322669
>>28322753
Wow, China has really shit draw distance. I run Arma III on a toaster and I can see farther than that.
>>28324770
you tried :DDDDD
>>28325086
id love to see that proof.
>>28322620
>It still flies of fucking MiG-29 engines
China BTFO.
>>28331017
>posting blatant bullshit
GTFO
>>28331017
>Americucks are so desperate they have to straight up lie about it
lmao the tables have turned
isn't the J-20 an exact Chinese prototype of the F35 Lightning II?
>>28331445
>>28331536
+50 cents
>>28324882
Hahaha, no.
The Su-35 shits on anything that China puts out. That's why the Chinese are buying them so they can reverse engineer everything they can get their hands on to stick it on their own fighters.
>>28324995
A good PESA is better than a shit AESA.
AESA doesn't automatically mean you've got magic radar.
>>28331580
That's the J-31.
>>28325516
well its more then that friend, Stealth Tech is the new thing and it works. well. and the missles, a lot of future jets have stealth coating and missiles cant really track like they used to. Dogfighting with 30mm cannons is going to become standard.
>>28331624
thanks man, i like propeller planes, i need to get into this new jet age XD
>>28331586
>No retort
Nice
>>28325276
>fan blades
Turbine blades. Big difference.
>>28331711
whats the difference?
>>28331711
whats the difference? do they spin faster? im so confused XD
>>28331445
>>28331536
>Implying anyone cares to tell gook copies apart
The copy of F-35 flies on MiG-29 engines, the copy of MiG-1.44 flies on Su-27 engines. China BTFO.
So is anyone else less "oh no our monopoly on stealth is gone ;~;" and more like "It's about fucking time" ?
I mean, we've had the monopoly on stealth aircraft for a third of a fucking century, long enough to develop, produce, and retire our first stealth aircraft. It's about time a competitor shows up so we can blow the cobwebs out of our R&D departments, and start drawing up plans for plasma shields or cloaking fields or some shit.
>>28322722
Russia was talking about "5th gen" fighters in the late 1980s, in reference to the US ATF program and their (Soviet) competitors, the MiG MFI, etc.
Impressive
With these kind of information sharing, you can discern the facts from the lies that paid American individuals try to propagate.
>>28331748
They spin at roughly the same speed, but turbine blades sit right behind where the fuel is burnt and are designed to turn some of the engine's thrust into rotational energy to spin the fan and compressor back up at the front. In other words, they have to be designed so that jet fuel doesn't something something (withstand ~2000 degree temperatures while withstanding tons of force and heavy angular / rotational acceleration.)
these fucking little chinks stole millions of $ worth of US r&d, fuck them
>>28324770
>Americans do the same.
You chinks are fucking pathetic.
>>28322620
I thought the rumors were stating 2016.
That's sooner than expected-
>>28322719
>sinodefence board got butthurt when I just stated that a straight copy of the admiral kusnezow would be a letdown
Is there a board that moves in the middleground between shitposting and circlejerking?
>literally a body kit for a MiG 1.44
>>28331738
>>28331748
This >>28331905 isn't me, but he has the right idea. Fan (compressor) blades are larger, and operate in temperatures up to about 500°C, while modern turbine blades operate in temperatures exceeding 1500°C. The force on these blades is incredibly strong, in the range of several tons of force per blade. The blades operate at these temperatures and under these forces almost 100% of the time, and require advanced metallurgy to create. Fan blades are usually steel, aluminum, or titanium alloys, while turbine blades are made from high-nickel alloys, some being ceramic-coated and some (generally hp turbine, see the picture in >>28331711) can be perforated to create a layer of cooler air in order to prevent the blades from melting.
>>28325108
canards aren't stealth is an aerospace meme and doesn't even make sense if you just know a little bit about how stealth and canards work.
>>28325907
The F-35 is a twintail design. Of course it has stunning AoA in subsonic regime. It's the entire selling point of that design choice.
It doesn't say anything about supermaneuverability though
>>28332004
The AoA capability is completely managed by the onboard computers, too. At its max AoA, the tail is completely stalled, and yaw stability is controlled by careful inputs to ailerons and flaps, utilizing induced drag to create yaw inputs. In the event of the flight computer(s) failing, I have a feeling the aircraft would be relatively easy to depart from controlled flight.
>>28331990
>canards aren't stealth is an aerospace meme and doesn't even make sense if you just know a little bit about how stealth and canards work.
proofs?
>>28332332
Lockheed.
>>28332028
>In the event of the flight computer(s) failing, I have a feeling the aircraft would be relatively easy to depart from controlled flight.
The exact same thing would happen to an F-16, which can't even fly in a straight line without computer assistance. ALL modern jet fighters require some form of computer assistance.
>>28332353
>Lockheed.
thats not how proofs work.
have they figured out engine design yet or are they still using soviet coal burning engines?
>>28322620
i would be impressed only if it wasnt for the fact that they literally hacked into the pentagon and reverse-engineered F-22 blueprints
>>28332028
>in the event of flight computers failing
The same would be true of the J-20, etc.
Unless its not a fly by wire aircraft, then i would LEL till it retires.
>only 4 BVRs, 2 AAMs.
>less than 1.0 T/W
>as large as a flanker, less BVR capacity than a future F-35 block, the same as a current.
All i got is MEH.
>>28332458
>less than 1.0 T/W
By your metric a yurofighter is better
>>28332458
random greentext is random
>>28332475
It certainly has more T/W which is directly related to energy management and retainment.
It cant even supercruise with the current engines.
>>28329083
fog of war settings enabled?
>>28325028
I am. The EPA we have here claiming we're going to save the planet by switching to green energy is pretty fucking pointless when we have china shitting out 100x more pollution already.
>>28332481
Truth hurt?
High res when.
Maiden flight when.
