could someone explain a few things about ammo to a rookie?
so there are douzens of distinct kind of ammo, full metal jacket, hollowpoint, soft nose, various AP cores
how much more effective are hollow points in handgun calibers than AP or jacketed rounds?
it struck me that especially in larger harder hitting calibers, would an AP round not still stop someone dead; why would you give up that penetrative ability?
would it not be dead easy to put a core in a hand loaded round? even if it was not dead on center would it make the round tumble or veer off?
if FMJ's tent to feed better, why does anyone use non-jacketed rounds?
you can even get jacketed hollowpoints, is it just the cost?
why is ammo so damn expensive?
it's mass produced and trillions of rounds are made, the metal and explosive components can't be that hard to make
if companies are price gouging, why don't back yard factories start popping up everywhere?
sorry if these are foolish questions
>if FMJ's tent to feed better, why does anyone use non-jacketed rounds?
>you can even get jacketed hollowpoints, is it just the cost?
It's the round nose of the FMJ that lets it feed better. There's at least one hollow point deisnged like that, Corbon Pow'R Ball, which has a plastic round nose over the hollow point
>>28291997
>why is ammo so damn expensive?
>if companies are price gouging, why don't back yard factories start popping up everywhere?
Same answer for both: Quality control and safety. The cheapeast of the cheap ammo tends to be unreliable and sometimes unsafe due to things like double loaded ammo
Hollow point is preferred over FMJ for human targets because hollow point will fuck your shit up 10x as easy. FMJ also has a small chance to pass right through the target, doing very little damage. I saw a news article where this guy tried to shoot some attackers with that super high-velocity Swiss stuff and it took like thirteen rounds to put down each guy. The rounds just went right through their bodies without expanding and did not damage any internal organs.
>>28292114
>did not damage any internal organs
What the fuck was he shooting at their arms and shoulders?
>>28291997
>how much more effective are hollow points in handgun calibers than AP or jacketed rounds?
There's actually a very significant difference.
If a bullet passes in one side of a target and out the other, the energy it retains on the other side is effectively wasted. It only transfers the energy that it loses onto the target which is part of what causes all the damage. A high velocity round will still cause pretty good cavitation, but the ideal is for the entire mass to stop inside the target which is what HP is good at.
We've gone to lighter calibers in rifles in part for this reason, they not only zip in at a high speed but also yaw and fragment allowing for more to stay inside the target.
Laws have something to do with it too. AP handgun ammo is heavily regulated in civilian circles, which tends to focus attention towards the HP side of the spectrum. Meanwhile the military can't have HP ammo due to the Hague convention (or they're not supposed to use it on uniformed combatants anyway), so they use the high velocity fragmenting stuff as a way to achieve similar results a different way.
>would it not be dead easy to put a core in a hand loaded round? even if it was not dead on center would it make the round tumble or veer off?
That's a large part of the problem. If it's not balanced damn near perfectly it'll tumble and hit the target sideways.
Old .30-06 black tip AP ball was so well balanced and consistent snipers preferred it over regular M2 ball. It had to be. Shit was expensive to make though.
>you can even get jacketed hollowpoints, is it just the cost?
Basically.
Some calibers can use cast lead ammunition, others can't. Those that can benefit from a slightly cheaper, albeit much dirtier avenue for cheap ammunition.
>>28292114
He fucked the breach and the barrel.... that's what you get for using HV ammo in a gun like this.
>>28292203
>if companies are price gouging, why don't back yard factories start popping up everywhere?
The complete process of manufacturing self-contained cartridges isn't that hard, but there's two major factors.
First is safety and accuracy. Poorly made ammunition can kB!, inconsistensies with the case can cause either catastrophic structural failures or jams. Case separation is a huge problem, IE when the extractor removes the rim but leaves a good chunk of brass in the chamber which blocks the subsequent cartridge from going in battery. Faulty primers could go bad and fail to ignite. Improper powder or powder levels can either cause squibs (bullet stuck in the barrel) or explosions. Badly cast bullets might not fit, either spiking chamber pressure or allowing tons of blow-by. Accuracy can be impacted by bullet weight, shape, powder, primer, even problems with the casing. Quality ammunition is near perfect and extremely consistent from one round to the next.
Next problem is simple economies of scale. Say you can make a perfect cartridge first time every time. Nearly 100% reliable, perfect durable brass matching chamber specs within 1/1000th of a cm, perfectly weighted bullets and the best powder measured exactly identically down to the grain from one round to the next. A single person working with hand tools can do this. It's called hand-loading. 6mm PPC rail gun competitions revolve around it. That said, these individuals spend literally HOURS loading a handful of near-perfect cartridges. Manufacturing ammunition that's a little less perfect can be quite a bit faster, but still nothing like what a proper factory can do. They'll crank out a million plus 99% perfect cartridges every day. It's the cheapest way to get the best overall results, but setting up an operation that large is insanely expensive. The smaller guys can only capture the high precision/high cost per round markets. Particularly when making small batch obscure/obsolete calibers.
>>28292290
So to answer
>why is ammo so damn expensive?
Retail markup.
modern ammunition for all it's complexity only costs like 3-10 cents per round to make. But we're talking retail here. They then have to be packaged, shipped, flowed to retail shelves, handled, rung up and etc. Some get lost in the process. Middlemen need to get money. Occasionally customers demand refunds. Overall, every step needs to make an excess to cover the unforeseen costs of doing business. By the time it's bought, sold and paid for by the end user the product is marked up 300% or so. The government of course pays something like a 110-120% markup, but they also buy like 90% of the industry output.
>>28292063
That's called a ballistic tip. It's been around for a while.
LeveRevolution stuff is great for tube magazines.
>>28291997
>why would you give up that penetrative ability?
IRL? Legal safety. If you over penetrate an attacker and hit a bystander, you're liable for a civil suit or manslaughter.
9/10 times, you're going to be blasting someone in a situation where super penetration isn't needed.
>if FMJ's tent to feed better, why does anyone use non-jacketed rounds?
Unjacketed/partially jacketed rounds do expand, just not as much as an unjacketed hollowpoint.
You normally see this kind of ammo in hunting applications, by the way, where feed issues aren't priority anyway.
>if companies are price gouging, why don't back yard factories start popping up everywhere?
shaping casings requires specialized machine tools. I mean, people reload all the time, but if you have the money to buy the equipment needed to punch casings, you might as well just buy the equipment to make guns instead.
Making primers and modern powder is also beyond most people.
This seems like a good thread to hijack.
Why can I not buy any .22 ammo right now? I just cleaned up a rusted old Buckmark as my first gun and I went to go buy some ammo for it and everywhere is sold out.
>>28292349
so if you wanted cheaper ammo, you would need gun that had more tollerance
you'd end up going back to muskets
>>28293303
>I just need some ammo for hobbying
>old rusted gun
>everywhere sold out
I bet you want a thowsand rounds that you can add to your hoard anon
>>28293303
.22 is notorious for being hoarded by fudds who think "OBUMMER IS GUNNA TAKE MAH DADDIES TEN TWENNYTOO AWAY!"
This leads to artificial shortage and encourages more and more people to buy it up when they find it, which increases the shortage.
.22 isn't even a good round with the scarcity issues, you're better off plinking in a round you'll actually use like a handgun round to double as practice.
>>28293323
Yup
Blackpowder stuff can be fun as fuck, cast your own bullets and minie ball ammo
I mean, who wouldn't want a cannon like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJvesjGissE
>>28291997
>how much more effective are hollow points in handgun calibers than AP or jacketed rounds?
Hollow points are better against soft targets because the bullet expands, dealing more internal damage
>it struck me that especially in larger harder hitting calibers, would an AP round not still stop someone dead; why would you give up that penetrative ability?
Because you don't need it, material isn't free and overpenetration does exist.
>would it not be dead easy to put a core in a hand loaded round? even if it was not dead on center would it make the round tumble or veer off?
I don't even know what you're asking? Yes, you can hand load jacketed, etc rounds.
>if FMJ's tent to feed better, why does anyone use non-jacketed rounds?
Because of pricing and purpose of shot. Plus, the feed differences are largely bias and superstition.
>you can even get jacketed hollowpoints, is it just the cost?
Yes
>why is ammo so damn expensive?
Ignorant people hoarding ammo due to fear of Federal firearms/ammo legislation
>it's mass produced and trillions of rounds are made, the metal and explosive components can't be that hard to make
No, they aren't, but components like steel or brass jacketing and gunpowder can't reliably be made by hand, only assembled. You can cast lead for bullets easily though
>if companies are price gouging, why don't back yard factories start popping up everywhere?
Because they do, legal restrictions prevent outright garage sales but handloading is incredibly common
>>28293362
I picked it up from my dad a few days ago. I don't have any .22 ammo at all you retard.
>>28293374
This is what I was worried about. I was hoping it was just sold out because it was so close to Christmas.
>>28292290
Only thing I want to correct on this, manufacturing tolerances are around 5-10% typically on ammunition. So think of it as millions of rounds of 90%-100% perfect ammunition.
>>28293441
I bet your typing that while sitting on a pile of .22, typing on a keyboard of .22, in your .22 vault under your house
>>28293516
Nice try feds, but I already called and had myself removed from your watchlist.
>>28293547
I doubt the feds care how much .22 you have, they don't need any
your .22 castle is safe
>>28291997
How does that gif even happen?
Is that an AK or did someone put a drum on an SKS? It has that bayonet lug on it.
>>28293657
It's an sks with a shitty drum duck bill mag, apparently with broken feed lips.
>>28293662
Thanks mang
>>28293645
>Who could be behind this post?
>>28291997
you have a lot to learn, dont get frustrated it will take a little time, keep doing research and reading replies here and you will get there
>>28292287
It's bent the Frame faggot get it right
