So say America IS FORCED to adopt a new bullpup service rifle. What should it be?
>AUG
>F2000
>Tavor
>a new indigenous design?
>>28284690
Tavor. Be the goodest goy
>>28284690
They would make a bullpup AR-15
>>28284690
M60E6 as standard service weapon
We'd raise Samuel colt from the dead to create America's next Sweetheart.
>>28284690
Shoot whoever "forced" us to adopt it with an A4
Problem solved
>>28284711
/thread
Kel-Tec RFB, RDB, & KSG
We should have 100 armed troops in maybe a year or so if we start now.
>>28284705
>>28284711
These.
/thread
>>28284739
>Kel-Tec RFB, RDB, & KSG
>We should have 100 armed troops in maybe a year or so if we start now.
And the weapons would wear out after a month at the range.
>>28284690
Hire Matt from Demolition Ranch to make enough bullpup AR15s to equip the whole military
>>28284690
It should be a battle rifle to prepare troops for a world riddled with powered armor. Intermediate rifles will no longer cut it by the 2030s.
>>28284810
I doubt power armor will be a thing in our lifetimes. If it is, it'll be much easier to make a rifle that can defeat power armor than power armor that can defeat .308
>>28284829
How many fucking times do we have to keep reminding you people?
And no, you can't make a rifle that will easily defeat a quality set of armor. Not even .50 will do much to a one inch plate of steel, and it doesn't really need to be 100% coverage.
>>28284690
It has to be an indigenous design.
>>28284882
So MDR?
>>28284882
Why? What with the M240, M249, M9 and Carl G, it hasn't historically mattered.
>>28284899
That looks pretty small.
>>28284900
A nations service rifle should always be I produced by that country. Even Israel and Finland have their own rifles.
>>28284871
>1 inch plate of steel
>Not ridiculously heavy
>>28284871
.50 BMG API will certainly go through that
>>28284871
You don't have to make a rifle that will defeat armor, you just need to make a cartridge that will defeat it. Armor piercing incendiary ammo is a great penetrator and will undoubtedly improve.
are pistols bullpups?
>>28285174
>>28285174
Yes
Give troops 1911 as primary, M9 as secondary, have them dual wield
>>28284916
He's addicted to spooks!
>>28284924
>>28284977
>>28285139
API doesn't work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtopxCjs518#t=6m25s
>look ma I had to post it again because some people are always behind the times
>>28285253
What's the point of the M9?
The 1911 will hit LIKE A CANNON
The M9 will only annoy
>>28284916
The MDR shoots 7.62 NATO
>>28285699
The funny part is that steel plate is actually the cheap, shitty option for protection in power armor when we're starting to head torwards the use of graphene based armor that's lighter and working at a completely different level of resilience.
>>28285174
No, because the action is above and around the trigger group.
"A "bullpup" is a firearm with its action behind its trigger group."
"In firearms terminology, an action is the mechanism that handles the ammunition (loads, locks, fires, and extracts the cartridges)"
The magazine just holds the ammo and pushes up to be loaded, locked, fired, then extracted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullpup
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_%28firearms%29
We ISA now
>>28284690
These:
>>28284705
>>28284792
>>28284871
>using steel for armor
>not using ceramic plates
The pic you posted is already designed to allow up to 60% of the soldier's body to be covered in XSAPI plates that will stop all conventional 7.62 NATO AP ammunition (the plates are rated to stop the 7.62x51mm M993 tungsten carbide core AP round that costs a couple dollars per round, you'd need something like the 7.62 NATO M948 SLAP which costs several dollars per round if you wanted to penetrate it with a battle rifle) and more than likely would stop non AP .50 BMG.
>>28286502
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b39MQxIi0mc
Ceramic plates have its own problems.
Admittedly, using one video is anecdotal.
I'll go fetch so more info and stats.
>>28284882
>>28284899
This. The Tavor is great, but a little heavy and the trigger isn't suited to American preferences. The AUG and F2000 are just flat-out inferior. Keltec's a nonstarter for reasons others have already pointed out.
At least based on the pre-production reviews I've seen, the MDR is a Tavor with all the bugs ironed out. If the MDR doesn't turn out well, then the Tavor is perfectly good. The military would have to insist on a new, non-shitty trigger pack, and license the design for production in the United States.
Get it in 5.56, obviously.
Essentially any design adopted by the US military will become the basis of a platform like the AR-15 is. Most of the anti-bullpup blather would turn pro-bullpup once US troops get used to the change and you see enough out there in the civilian market.
With that said, while I prefer bullpups, I see no reason to replace the AR-15. It's more than good enough.
>>28286376
there is no way the bolt has enough room to travel there
>>28285706
If you run out of ammo with the 1911
You never will though, 8+1 bullets with that stopping power means more than enough for any grunt.
>>28284916
this
if your standard service rifle is not indigenous or is just a indigenous variant of foreign design you are LITERALLY a cuck country
>>28284916
>gee billy, your mom lets you have TWO pvs-14s?
>>28286575
Please advise, some of these are company body armor, some are homemade.
Judge for yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt5hJORcbkQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1FgutJeyr8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMeQDtfZDEI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duxeXrz6Pvg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdgQ0OSZqOo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky06nsLeJIk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtynYKa_bVA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqmFjEQGI9Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjVrcr3VXjk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxoYwUPOmBE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPvaDs-mibc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg3ScHmBy4Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7R5bEvjOwM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dscxjnvC8JA
>>28284739
Kek
>>28286575
has* , sorry about that.
>>28286502
One inch of steel is the baseline for protection against .50 BMG up to all the common armor piercing variations. You have to set a standard for measurement somehow. Only the absolute most expensive specialty rounds would be able to penetrate that kind of armor. I'm sure that a multilayered composite can perform better and be lighter.
Even the current Level 4 / SAPI class rifle plates are already a great form of protection. The primary problem with current plates and carriers is that they hardly cover the body at all, and there are so many unprotected regions where getting shot is likely to be lethal. If they can eventually achieve a 90~99% ratio of whole body protection with "only" Level 4 plates, it would invalidate intermediate caliber rifles as a viable primary arm. Useful against most enemy combatants but ineffective against the actual vanguard forces of a modern nation, which only comprises a relatively small number of troops.
Hence why any future bullpup rifle that the US military might be forced to adopt should be chambered in 7.62 NATO at the absolute minimum.
>>28284706
5.56 M60. I can dig it.
>>28284710
Samuel Colt was decent at guns.He did a good job of hiring people that were better with gun and some that were not. That's the entire history if the company. This is not debatable.
A backwards AR.
>>28286745
>One inch of steel is the baseline for protection against .50 BMG up to all the common armor piercing variations.
If I remember correctly, 1/2" of appropriately hardened steel will stop any non AP .50 BMG, and a large XSAPI plate weighs about 8 lbs.
>If they can eventually achieve a 90~99% ratio of whole body protection with "only" Level 4 plates, it would invalidate intermediate caliber rifles as a viable primary arm.
The one problem with that is they are looking at using XSAPI plates instead of the ESAPI/NIJ IV plates that are commonly issued today, and you aren't going to penetrate XSAPI plates with any intermediate/full power rifle round that isn't APDS or APFSDS. Your choice would be intermediate rifle rounds loaded with flechettes or full power rifle rounds loaded with sub caliber tungsten carbide bullets that also won't be the best performers for wound ballistics (the 7.62x51mm M948 SLAP uses a .19 ~53 grain bullet).
Since to defeat SS109, you essentially need 8mm of RHA equivalent, what about taking from tank armor.
>12ga steel backing sheet
>1/8" rubber
>1/8" aluminum plate perforated with holes of a diameter no greater than 1/10"
>1/8" rubber
>wrapped in a cured fiberglass weave
>>28286639
what about the britcucks who had to have the germans fix their shitty bullpup?
>>28287012
Try it out, and get back to us.
You might have a million dollar idea.
>>28284705
I've never seen a bullpup ar-15 that doesn't have shit ergos
>>28284771
Not true, kel tec actually makes decent firearms. I don't see why all the hate.
>>28284690
Fuck you.
>>28287120
Thinking about it a bit more, i think the NERA bulging effect would not occur with small arms, if I remember some scientific papers correctly
However, the edge effect of perforated armor would still work
>>28286745
So what you're saying is that would should either get all our troops to become space marines or get thick metal strong abs?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTjyO_FncE4
Keltec Bullpups for evrryone
>>28287756
>thick metal strong abs
>>28287468
Yeah, something like 5mm holes spaced 3.5mm apart would ensure that .22 projectiles have to hit an edge
>>28284690
i hope the fn2000 those are cool
not like the jew shit tavor
>>28289665
That's probably the best case scenario, since it is ambidextrous from the beginning without any parts swapping.
But in reality the next rifle will be a new type of ammo that has major advantages over the old brass-case, and probably not a bullpup.
>>28284690
Bullpup AR15.
>>28284705
>>28286745
If armor is going to exceed the ammunition, why use 7.62? It wouldn't go through either. Use lightweight high capacity ammo in hopes of hitting an unprotected spot, and use explosives frequently.
>>28285699
There's something I read in Tom Clancy that was said applying to nukes, but it applies at all levels: There's always a battle between armor and warhead, but the warhead wins in the end. You simply cannot make armor so powerful that just making a larger hole will not solve the problem.
>>28290144
>There's always a battle between armor and warhead, but the warhead wins in the end. You simply cannot make armor so powerful that just making a larger hole will not solve the problem.
No, but what is used to penetrate will be heavier, more expensive, and harder to deploy than what could be used if there was less or no armor. If you cover a soldier in XSAPI plates and have a powered exoskeleton so they can maneuver normally, anyone who tries to fight that soldier will be significantly less effective at doing so due to needing a larger, heavier gun and heavier, significantly more expensive ammunition than if they were fighting a soldier who wasn't covered in XSAPI plates.
>>28289833
I'm vaugely reminded of the Barrett M82A2 looking at that.
What was the purpose of a bullpup AMR again? Just testing the idea?
>>28291382
Because you can. It's not like you're losing much effective range from a carbine barrel vs a full rifle barrel on an AR anyways.
>>28291494
Was talking about this.
>>28289991
Because with ESAPI to XSAPI class plates and beyond, .308 can be at least expected to be able to wear down the armor with sustained fire and break through within a reasonable timeframe. Smaller intermediate rounds would be as good as peashooters against hypothetical Level 6+ plating.
>>28290304
The beauty of it is that when the aggressor has to start carrying huge and unwieldy guns just to scratch the armor of his target, he may be forced to wear a powered exoskeleton of his own in order to lug it around. After that, it is only a small leap for him to consider armoring his bare exoskeleton up to its carrying capacity as well, ending up with an exact match of his opponent's equipment in the first place. The cycle continues.
>>28284690
Keltec rdb or rfb.
Glorious 7.62 NATO
>>28292656
>Implying Keltec is durable enough for military service
They'd announce rifle trials, spend 2 years testing with FN coming out on top but then some dumb cunt major would take an undercut bid from HK or something and they'd be stuck with outdated shit until 2050.
>>28292826
>M4
>Outdated
>>28286643
I think those are finn made vv2000's.
>>28286376
No.
>>28291382
Easier to shoot while standing or crouching. Quicker to bring up and make ready.
