Is it really necessary for the average rank-and-file infantryman to carry a pistol anymore?
Pistols make sense for people like vehicle crewmen who work in cramped spaces, but I don't see why a grunt needs one.
>inb4 muh backup wepn
Couldn't you just as easily swap out the pistol/pistol ammo for more rifle food?
>>28267128
The average infantryman does not carry a pistol, nor have they ever. It's a perk for officers and for guys who actually need them, like machine gun crews.
>>28267128
>Is it really necessary for the average rank-and-file infantryman to carry a pistol
No, that's why they don't. Stop playing call of duty.
>anymore
>implying they ever did
>>28267128
Only COs who hate their weapon crews have pistols
Officers need them to shoot enlisted if they forget their place.
To repeat what others have said, they don't. I honestly can't see where this misconception could have come from save someone playing too many video games.
Normal enlisted men have never been widely issued any form of pistol in the history of ever. SF/SOF might get them but that's because they're special snowflakes. A pistol is a sign of command.
>anymore
They've never done this you git
BECAUSE SWITCHING TO YOUR SIDEARM IS FASTER THAN RELOADING, YOU FUCKING NUMBNUTS
>>28267314
This is true though.
>>28267314
Lol fuck you I'm close enough to knife.
I carried a sidearm in the MP's but the average grunt doesn't have one.
Also, I fucking never used it -didn't even draw it- except on the range. I was mostly humping the 240B and slinging lead with that
>>28267128
Grunts don't carry pistols.
>>28267204
>Only COs who hate their weapon crews have pistols
This statement couldn't be more true. Officers and SNCOs will take all the pistols in the armory so they dont have to lug their rifle around and dont leave enough pistols for guys that no shit need a side arm
>>28267144
>>28267204
>>28267128
>Is it really necessary for the average rank-and-file infantryman to carry a pistol anymore?
they don't carry one to begin with wtf are you talking about
>>28267279
Definitely video games. Pretty much every shooter has had you use a main rifle and a sidearm. Look at all the CoD and Medal of Honor games.
Most non military wouldn't have any other experience to tell them that wasn't the case.
>>28267697
You fucking bet we do.
>rifle gets in the way of clipboard
>rules for where you can take rifle and where you have to hand it off to someone randomly change
>bang rifle on knees randomly
>never have a need to shoot anything anyway, will probably be from 10 feet away if you do
>have to make it cleaner than Jesus before turning it in
>this thing just gets in the way and generally makes me look like a retard as I try to do my job which never involves needed to use the damn thing, yet I have to have it on me at all times
Yeah I think I'll just need the M9 supply SGT. Just going to be sitting in the TOC anyway.
>>28267314
But this is actually true.
>>28267149
I was issued an M4 and an M9 on my deployment. And I was a lowly E3 at the time.
>>28267279
That and that /k/ goes full autist over which handgun the military adopts, as if they were used in every other engagement
>>28267792
I was implying that the machine gunners that are carrying M240B's on patrols need a sidearm cause they cant really react to a situation with a gun that's empty and being carryed on their shoulders. If you're stuck on a FOB or in the COC than you can have an M16
>>28267792
Oh yeah you're right, making sure your pampered ass avoids a minor inconvenience is waaay more important than it is for it to save the life of a grunt in the field.
is there even a plausible reason for using pistols in combat, nowadays?
No. Average soldiers like your scouts, artillery, infantry, do not need pistols. The only reason you need a pistol is if you're not ever expected to leave the wire, at all. (I'm looking at you S shops)
Pistols are good at getting lost by incompetent joes.
>>28267896
Yep.
>>28267842
>empty and being carryed on their shoulders
But that's just stupid. Not even a short starter belt? Actually WTF. Are you guys trying not to win?
>>28267842
Well mortar crews carry rifles, and machine gunners work in teams with guys who have rifles. Corpsman usually carry pistols.
>>28267868
I hope my acknowledgement of the absurdity of the situation wasn't lost in text translation.
Honestly I could say "no, I'd like a rifle" but all that would happen would be people would question why I have a rifle and some other officer or NCO would get issued the pistol because there are never enough to go around.
Either way, there's no way the pistol is getting to the person who actually needs it.
The ideal solution would be to have officers provide their own damn weapons. I'd much rather carry my own 92fs that I know is in good condition, rather than an ancient M9 out of the arms room that is at the end of its service life.
Besides, I like the stainless steel slide and barrel on mine.
>>28267896
Do they not work? If yes, then of course there is.
Pistols have their uses, that isn't debatable. What IS, though, is whether it's justifiable to take it instead of more ammunition for your primary. And whether it's worth the cost to issue them.
>>28267128
>average weight of a fully loaded bredduh is 41 ounces
>average weight of a loaded STANAG magazine is 18.24 ounces
you can carry 2 mags of 30 rounds for the weight of one bredduh and carry 4 times the amount of ammunition so it is better for the average rifleman to carry 60 more rounds instead of 15 round pistol.
pistols are perks and signs of rank for Officers, or vehicle crews and gunners who need an offhand and don't typically need to worry about weight
this whole thread is day/k/are as fuck
>>28267729
it's depressing how aware some officers are of their own bullshit, but continue to do it anyway...
Actual phone call from platoon sgt last year
>"The new platoon commander has taken your spot on the deployment"
>"Because he isn't qualified for your job, you'll be supporting him from back here"
>"I tried my best to keep your spot, but he hasn't been there yet and he wants to get the medal before we stop going"
>>28267128
It's not a case of more ammo. In close quarters, like clearing buildings, it takes less time to draw and fire a pistol than swap out rifle mags.
>>28267898
also this.
Small important things are usually given to people who have rank just because they're less likely to lose it.
>give soldier sensitive item
>gets drug through the woods, possibly falls off/gets lost
>give officer sensitive item
>either gets secured in an unneeded ammo pouch and walked around with
>or ideally he doesn't want to be bothered with it and locks it in a toughbox/footlocker until he turns it back in
Give an officer/nco a sensitive item and the first thing he's going to try to do is lock it up so he can take it off his list of shit to worry about.
>>28267729
>>28267128
>>28268064
No, this whole thread is regular Army as fuck.
>>28267225
>Dog named Nig
How long until people start protesting this monument?
>>28268116
They'd have to pay any scrap of attention to a war monument first.
>>28268083
I get that he's the Commander and all but literally what the fuck? How does a shitbag like him even make rank. I'm sorry bro, sounds like you've got wicked bad leadership.
>>28267896
Stoppages in CQC, but most infantry won't have to worry about that
>>28268116
Different dog.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger_%28dog%29
People cared more about a stupid dog then some loose cunts drowning hundreds of german civilians.
I mean at least give your wpns platoons guys m4s you fucking assholes. I saw a 240 gunner running around mout town with a 240 and an a4 on his back the poor bastards.
>>28268160
it's military-wide, wherever you go, you won't escape it. our old company commander said it best during an impromptu speech to a group of privates and junior ncos when he thought he was addressing a group of officer cadets:
>"Soldiers have a job, Officers have a career"
>>28268241
>"Soldiers have a job, Officers have a career"
How do sergeants put up with that shit?
>>28267842
>machine gunners that are carrying M240B's on patrols
>a gun that's empty and being carryed on their shoulders
Please tell me no one is being trained to do that.
>>28268089
Oh god why is /g/ invading our board. Call of Army Ghost duty kids go home.
>>28268331
>Oh god why is /g/ invading our board. Call of Army Ghost duty kids go home.
I never played ghosts, but from what I have played of military games, actual weapon length has 0 effect on the gameplay and you can clear a house just as easily with a machine gun.
>video game has specific audio protocols wherein if you use a mchine gun indoors it blows out your speakers
heh
>>28268303
Liquor.
>>28268331
>why is /g/ invading our board
Why are you still using software that doesn't respect your freedoms?
Why aren't you running Gentoo, the Free operating system?
Why don't you understand the difference between /g/ and /v/?
>>28268331
/v/ is the vidya board, dear. /g/ is technology, and primarily revolves around circlejerking over homescreens and wallpapers, 2D grills wearing headphones and installing gentoo.
>>28268384
Generously applied until they stop caring or until they leave/quit/die
>>28268089
dear god...
>>28267729
I had to mount my SAW on our platoon sergeants mRAP turret, so he gave me his pistol to carry around that month. Not gonna lie, it was pretty nice.
Wasn't even pistol qualled.
>>28267729
>>28268106
You Have to Love Terminal Lance Cartoons
that guy is dead on...sadly
>>28267314
Why does he look like an angry Jerry Miculek?
>>28268620
>>28267128
It's not just for running out of ammo, moron. Any number of things can happen. Your rifle could malfunction. It could get wrestled away from you.
>>28268083
It's here in AF maintenance too
>New female captain on first deployment
>Learns what a tail swap is
>convinces someone higher up that she should get one
>Pulls Guidance and control tech from trip
>Plane lands in Romania
>Compass 1&2 are fucked
>Have to fly another maintainer from nearest AFSOC base to fix it
>Capt gets a medal for getting that maintainer out to that plane.
it's like they're all in it for each other and all enlisted represent stepping stones.
>>28267842
>empty
>empty
>empty
>not a short 25-50 round starter belt
Every infantryman in Canada carries a BHP with their rifle
>>28267128
You need to understand something, if the Marine Corps could, it would issue more pistols.
But that shit costs money, and money is hard to get.
So there are only so many pistols......and when it comes to 1st LT cocksuck and PFC helpless, who do you think is going to get it?
>>28267805
I can almost guarantee you were PSD you dirty cocksucker
>>28268636
In the unappealing browness of yesteryear's current age there is only war and 360 noscoping with a revolver.
>>28268797
Captain Cuntkisser, of course.
>>28268811
Ding.
>>28268303
get out, take a 20k pay rise in the civilian sector
>>28267128
Yes, god yes. On alert you are required to be armed at all times.
If you have a pistol you meet that requirement.
Otherwise, you have to carry around a fucking rifle and have a panic attack every half hour when you think you might have left that unconformable hunk of metal somewhere.
But mostly because the jealous stares of Marines made me unconformable about being a corpsman and having a P226
>>28269474
>military
>issuing anything that isn't M9
People who haven't served.
>>28269413
Hey, a whole 40 grand
You want to fuck with Officers and Staff when it comes to pistols? Here's what you do. Become the Armorer. MOS 2111 for jarheads. Can't remember for army. Your primary issue is a pistol and there isn't a god dam thing they can do about it. I'm sure some will try, but just send it up the line and watch them get rekt.
>>28269496
The M11 is real, if rare and magical. Jarheads do stare at them with envy in there dead, soulless eyes.
>>28269545
>Why does doc get a nice gun?
>I don't wanna carry the Pig anymore
>fuck Doc, I hate him
>I wonder if he'll give me quarters for a broken soul
the guys we were relieving could not understand that only our SNCOS and officers got m9s. Lucky 240 is reliable as fuck
>>28268303
We dont, That's why I got out. My Plt CO was practically my age and I had 3 or so years of time in service on him. Fucking bootenents
>>28269536
But do you get all the cosmoline you can eat?
>>28269670
>only 3 years of service over your PL
>tfw new PL was only in 6th grade when I joined
>>28267128
no, which is why they don't
>>28267128
How are you supposed to clear those VC tunnels with a big ass rifle, private?
>>28268417
Oh so true
Officers and 1stSgts be like: I dont know why my company has so many DUIs and underage drinking charges. I got an idea, lets send them to the field more often so that cant fuck up.
Meanwhile every other canteen is full of jack daniels
>>28268735
You could carry it with a belt in, but not with a round chambered. Its an open bolt gun, you wouldnt want to carry it with the bolt back. Bump it wrong and that bolt slams home and ND into your buddy
>>28269413
Thats what I did. Almost exactly that.
>>28269706
>>28269706
Grenades!
>>28269474
Were you a doc? Cause all navy I know that were attached to a marine unit got their weapons from the same armory, so nothing but M9s.
>>28269698
>Such is life in the Congo
>>28269803
>>28269698
Didnt want to be in that situation, I wouldve been one of those disgruntled gunnies that wouldnt be able salute a Lt without punching them in the cock as well. got out as a sgt this year.
>>28269474
intersting. I've only seen blue side sailors have m11s. Seabees mainly
All our corpsmans got issued m9s
The chaplains RPs that came with us their own weapons got m9s and m4s from their navy command.
That doc with the p226 must have been hooked up by his command. Maintenance would be an issue though.
>>28269843
Gunnies are almost never disgruntled.
18-19 year SSgts though...
>>28267225
>nig
>>28269862
Staff Sergeants are the whipping boys of SNCO's and officers, especially if they are freshly promoted. They're still technically on the chopping block and still not guaranteed 20 years.
>>28269862
When you have as much time in service as your SgtMaj and all out of fucks to give.
>>28267225
I love doges
>>28268016
I rather carry a glock or any other polymer pistol than the 92fs.it big and heavy for a 9mm
>>28267128
So youre answer to "backup weapons dumb" is more ammo for the gun thats requiring q backup weapon.
Interesting. I can see the logic of only having one option with lots of ammo i cant use after its broken.
>>28269496
>Not knowing about military use of the P226 (M11)
No, it's you.
>>28267128
Former US Army Infantry here. I would have liked to have had an issued sidearm.
>my rifle stops working - i have a back up
>not as good as rifle, but makes me feel better
>i put my rifle down to piss, I'm still armed
>i'm walking around the FOB, I'm still armed
>i'm sleeping, I'm still armed
>if my weapon gets taken from me, I'm still armed
>not that I've ever seen that happen, or even heard of it
>i'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it
that being said, I would say it is far from necessary. I mean, I'm still here, alive and well, and so are thousands of other boots, and none of us had one. I can't say I ever felt I needed one, but I would have liked it.
I understand why they don't do it, and it's not because of "need". It's logistics. Crazy how much it would take to ship all the ammo for sidearms for everyone, and replacement parts, holsters, etc. etc.
>>28268736
This is false.
as a muhreen.
I wouldnt have wanted a pistol even if they did issue me one.
I got enough serialized gear to take account of as is. M4, RCO(ACOG), PVS-14(NVG), Peq-16(IR laser/light).
I dont need more. Plus more unnecesary weight
kek
>>28270475
army says
>i like having a back up plan
>no needed but nice to have
muhreen says
>wwaaaaahhhh signing things out of the armory is hhhhaaaaarrrrrdddd
>wwwwaaaaaahhhh i don't wanna take accountability for another piece of equipment
>handguns are toooo hheeeaaaavyyyy wwwwwaaaaaaahhhhhhhh
typical marine.
>>28270652
>typical marine.
Yeah, pretty much. When your dipshit plt sgt makes you read off all of your serial numbers every morning and evening to make sure you didnt lose them. and you have to carry all of it around on your person at all times. Rifle or pistol is understandable, but not both and NVGs at all times.
>need to go take a shit, make sure you take 20 pounds of gear with you.
Takes 4 hours of cleaning just to get rifle into the armory, dont need another.
>hands rifle to armorer clean as fuck
>sticks toothepick down gas tube, "did you even try to clean this thing"
Meanwhile officers leave there rifles unattended and only carry a pistol. LCpl gets his ass blasted when the Lt's rifle goes missing.
>Hey Cpl I found someones rifle
>oh of coursre its the boot Lt's
>go pour sand down the action
>sir I found your rifle, you should carry this on you or lock it up
>>28267314
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOUR SIDEARM RUNS DRY, DICKWEED?
>>28270747
>plt sgt makes you read off all your serial numbers every morning
what the fuck. yeah dude, okay, I'll cut you some slack there, that's fucking ridiculous.
>take 20 pounds of gear to shit
maybe in muhreens. we always just dropped our pack, took our rifle and shovel if in the field. would have loved to have a sidearm instead
>take 4 hours cleaning just to get rifle into the armory
yeah, cleaning the rifle is a pain, but on the other hand, a pistol would be much more quickly cleanable. that DI design of the rifle is what made it a bitch. plus if you never use your pistol, it wont really get dirty.
>spend a whole day cleaning M4
>fire 1 shot
>takes all day to clean it again
>inb4 civilians saying it doesn't take all day
they don't even know what "clean weapon" means
>LCpl losing track of rifle
well, an officer has things to worry about, much bigger than where his rifle is. He doesn't use his rifle anyway
>If you PL is shooting his rifle
>something went horribly wrong
>>28270812
Cleaning M4 in muhreens is an all day endeavor unless you bribe the armorer by slipping a 20 in the receiver.
Cleaning my AR-15 as a civilian.
Takes 15 mins and is cleaner than any civilian will ever get there rifle to be.
>>28270864
>cleaning my gun as civilian
I know what you mean man hahaha and you look at your buddies gun with disgust and think "what the fuck, did he clean this with his dick"
>slipping a 20 in the receiver
I wish. You musta lucked out there buddy. Might be an army thing, or maybe just my platoon, but even down range our platoon sgt would have us line up at the armory, and would stand there with a box of q-tips to check our weapons. That prick.
>>28270864
Is that actually a thing people do, or do they just joke about it?
Would there ever be a situation where some motard-type gets uppity about you attempting to bribe and gets you fucked over?
>>28268521
That's actually a pretty sweet story.
>>28271232
Just depends on the armorers. Some will take the cash and the gun, others will just take the cash and return your dirty gun to you. The guys I knew in the armory you could straight up hand them the cash and they would clean it for you in the tanks when they werent busy. Dont even have to be discrete about it. Nobody cares, most people are just to cheap or boot to do it. I myself only did it once cause I was the only one there and didnt want to clean by myself outside the armory.
Also, armorers can fuck with the douchebag officers by not letting them turn their rifles in after they skip to the front of the line. Not a damn thing they could do about it.
>>28271308
Wait, what?
Your officers actually do that?
I bet they cut in the front of the chow line first, too.
>>28271438
No, chow in the field is always done by rank lowest to highest for the most part. The only time it benefits to be a boot
>>28271438
Lower ranks eat first in the Marines, not even the foggiest officer would break this tradition. It would be akin to wiping your ass with a portrait of Chesty.
>>28271469
>It would be akin to wiping your ass with a portrait of Chesty.
Fucking kek
![army_officer_Candidate_school[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/lLMoLCc.jpg "army_officer_Candidate_school[1].jpg")
>>28271469
>>28271464
>No, chow in the field is always done by rank lowest to highest for the most part
>not even the foggiest officer would break this tradition
saw a sergeant major do this, this year. nobody did anything. nobody wanted to take the charge for breaking an old fat man.
>>28271554
A marine sergeant major? He should know better than anyone. Perhaps he was completely out of fucks to give, but it's still poor form.
When I was a lcpl I always had fantasies of becoming a 2LT and stopping a sergeant major after he "forgot" to salute me and doing the whole "you go to bootcamp sergeant major...?" like sncos always did to lower enlisted shits
>>28267128
I don't see why not what happens if you get your rifle shot out of your hands or some other major mechanical failure? Guns break parts wear out. If I wasn't getting issued a sidearm I'd go out and buy my own.
>>28271620
>Never served
>>28271631
What rifles never fail in combat? Some magical American Bald Eagle protects our boys over seas fighting for their lives? If their rifle fails in the field another one is air dropped via Bald Eagle?
>>28271666
he means that even if you bought your own, they wouldnt let you use it
>>28271666
nice trip 6s
And yes, bald eagles run constant missions over war zones dropping M16s and fresh mags wherever freedom rings
>>28267128
No. They are nearly useless.
>>28271701
So if you have a major mechanical failure of your primary weapon you die?
>>28271749
>tap
>rack
>bang
>????
>PROFIT
>>28271749
Only with permission to do so. Now pick up your fucking weapon and run your drill as you were instructed and stop crying like a pussy. Proceed.
>>28271763
I'm not talking about a jam. I'm talking your rifle is done it ain't firing again unless it's brought back to the armorer.
>>28269740
In my 7 years of working with various belt fed weapons I have never seen this happen. I have seen two guns run away after stupidly prolonged firing. Keep your idiot misinformed opinions to yourself.
>>28271749
guns dont break that often, and if they do they're more likely to break in a non-combat moment, so you have toime to get it fixed or borrow someone elses gun. Even if it failed in combat, most engagements are 200+ meters away. youre not gonna die if one person in a squad cant shoot. Unless it fails on you in a close engagement(100m and closer) youd be good
>>28271776
At that point sop is to use the weapon like normal and shout PEW PEW while pulling the trigger.
>>28271786
so do you carry your belt guns with the bolt locked open or closed?
>>28271776
Run your drill. In the event that you are defective and unable to restore your weapon via drills get off your arse and assist the crew served weapons, dig or otherwise become useful or be that guy. They guy who is a liability to his squad. You do not need a handgun you faggot as they are all but useless to your purpose.
>>28271797
So true. The enemy doesnt know your gun stopped making bang noises when theres 8 other rifles and an mg raining down on them
>>28271261
Seems like if you actually had to use the pistol, being qualified would be the least of your worries
>>28271829
This.
>>28271802
You say open, for us the bolt is 'locked' to the rear. Both instances of run away gun was the fact that the safety shears were damaged.
>>28270864
Our armorers charged $40 for their fucking ball fund. Some pure unadulterated bullshit.
>>28267776
to be fair, you're usually playing as some sort of black ops unit in those games.
>>28271890
Furthermore, our command would send working parties to the armory to clean rifles at random times anyway, proving that they just put your rifle away dirty and some poor lance is gonna come clean it on a working party anyway.
>>28268427
>>28268331
>https://www.full30.com/video/8756a775d7acc71946f051908580b844
>10:10
You were saying?
>>28267128
main weapon will be reliable 99.99% of the time
>>28271864
Stop riding your charging handle forward while on Safe, goddammit!
>>28272170
Day dot that should be out of your system. You yanks have funny names and terms for your shit.
>>28267305
>>28267128
>>28267149
I was a 7212. I carried a rifle and pistol on my second and third deployments.
>>28267842
I all ways had a starter belt in on patrols and I never carry it over my shoulder excited in Hawaii doing road marches.
>>28269803
Greenside HM. I have tiny hands and there was an M11 available in 2007. Everything we get is drawn from Marine armories, it's not like we have our own secret Navy armories we don't tell anybody about.
We really don't, but you could convince a PFC of it and mess with their head for a while.
>>28268016
>The ideal solution would be to have officers provide their own damn weapons.
That's how most militaries used to do it. Some Japanese officers carried 1911s or m&p model 10s due to that.
>>28271749
It's not like the engagements of today are like the battles of WW2, where you are away from the logistical chain for a while sometimes. And even then it was rare.
A weapon doesn't just break.
Most likely if something is wrong you'll notice it beforehand in the range, even if it doesn't break, but shakes too much or makes weird noises.
It's extremely unlikely that your firearm just breaks the first few rounds in combat, and if it starts behaving weird you can adjust (fall back and let others take your position or swap a weapon with a wounded person, swap with the machine gunner and so on).
It's not like the moment you can't fire you're dead, stoppages are a lot more likely than actually have your weapon stop working completely.
You have your unit to rely on.
>>28272993
You lucky motherfucker. It probably wasn't even touched when you were issued it either unlike all the beat to shit M9's.
>>28267314
>camping with RPD on terminal
>see enemy coming through gantry from plane on radar
>switch to RPG to blow them up before they can get into the open
>some faggot comes out of the corridor and shoots me halfway through switch
>fuckmylife.jpg
>>28273679
Well thats what you get for being an RPGing nigger. Those faggots always get what they deserve.
>>28273679
>not having sleight of hand pro
git gud scrub
