What's so bad about manual safeties on pistols? I hear people shit talking them all the time, but I can't really see a problem with having one, at least something like a grip safety or trigger safety could be annoying, but a manual safety is just a lever or button you can leave in the off posting and forget about if you wanted to.
Nobody complains about rifles having manual safeties.
>>28252211
many pistols with a manual safety don't have a trigger or grip safety meaning that to safely carry it you'd have to have the safety on or have a DA/SA pistol with the hammer down since that's essentially a trigger safety, but many people just think it's a useless feature on a carry pistol so they would rather not have it at all
The only guess I have is because people don't train and so 'durr, your just gonna forget to take it off'
>>28252211
Oh this is gonna piss off alot of glock owners alot
>>28252211
Trigger safeties and grip safeties are nice OP, you don't even realize is there if you do it properly.
I dislike manual safeties because they get in the middle of everything, they can snag on your clothes and if you have you hand sweaty they slip, so just better not have one.
I think most of people that carry with safety on is because they fear an ND or something.
>>28252238
Or you could just not have a round in chamber
>>28252211
They're pointless. The only safe way to carry a pistol is in a holster and a good holster should cover the trigger guard.
>>28252248
The new glock gen 4s have removable backplates right? I wonder if anyone has made a grip safety for a Glock yet
The purpose of DOA pistols to remove the manual safety, so the pistol is ready immediately. Trigger and grip safeties and other passive safeties can work in the same way. Manual safeties are for guns that don't or can't have passive safeties (crispy single actions)
>Nobody complains about rifles having manual safeties.
Rifles generally need light triggers so that you don't throw your shots at long range. Double action is out of the question. Grip safeties are sometimes ineffective on shouldered weapons because your hand may not be on the grip the same way it is on a pistol. The manual safety is pretty much required - people don't complain because there's no good alternative.
>>28252264
That would be cool as hell. You'd need to cut through the back of the frame though.
>>28252251
>not RiC for carry
ha, good one
>>28252264
I think having a backstrap safety and trigger one at the same time is redundant. That's part of why I don't like the XD
>>28252241
Anon, haven't you ever seen any movies? You'll sit there and pull the trigger 3 or 4 times while your hands are shaking before realizing the safety is on.
>HURR DURR I HATE MANUAL SAFETY!!!!!!!!!
Then don't buy one with the manual safety
>HURR DURR GUNS WITH GRIP SAFETY SUCKS AND NO ONE NEVER GETS THEIR GRIP ON THE GUN!!!!!
Then just tie a rubber band around the grip so the grip safety is pressed down
>HURR DURR SAFETY GETS IN THE WAY AND IT IS STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then take the safety off and keep it on fire
>HURR DURR I HATE GUNS WITH HAMMER AND REVOLVERS!!!!!!!
Then don't buy one
>HURR DURR I HAVE AUTISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So do I and you don't see me getting upset
Are there really people can't figure out grip safeties?
The only manual safety I don't mind is the USP because my grip automatically switches it to fire when I grab it in the holser
>>28252303
yes....
I'm curious how absolutely fucked your grip would have to be to not disengage a grip safety
>>28252290
>You'll sit there and pull the trigger 3 or 4 times while your hands are shaking before realizing the safety is on.
I remember when Dr. Michael Baden said once that when he examined some dead police officers they had a muscle tear in there trigger finger from when they squeezed so hard but the safety was on and they got shot.
>>28252330
>LEOs
>training
good one
Nobody complains about rifles having safeties because the trigger can actually snag on shit and are meant to engage further away. The feature actually has an important purpose.
Why would you want one on a handgun? The trigger is completely protected until you need to shoot people at close range, and at that point why would you want to complicate things? Manual safeties on handguns are unnecessary liabilities.
>>28252406
>Why would you want one on a handgun?
to reduce the chance of nd
>>28252280
If I'm ever in a situation where the extra couple seconds to chamber a round costs me my life, I'm dead anyway
>>28252418
surely you realize what you just posted makes absolutely no sense
>>28252248
I will freely admit I got a XDs because I was afraid of glock leg. A trigger safety with a grip safety as back up? Sounds perfect to me. Both will disengage when I need to shoot my pistol.
>inb4 1911 story about bad grip safety
The dude in that story noted that it wasn't due to the pistol that he couldn't disengage the grip safety, it was due to him having two injured hands.
>>28252257
Well glock leg can happen because the trigger got pulled by clothing getting caught while holstering. Similar has happened to me, except I carry an XDs so I have a grip safety to help prevent that. I do have to be careful about holstering but as careful as someone who doesn't have at least two safeties.
>>28252283
I disagree, I find redundancy is good as long as it doesn't affect performance.
>>28252303
Yes, sadly.
>>28252329
Some dude on AR15 forums noted that with two INJURED hands he couldn't disengage a grip safety when he needed it.
>>28252406
>TRIGGER PROTECTED ON HANDGUN
>NOT PROTECTED ON RIFLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You're an idiot.
>>28252463
>but as careful
I meant to say "but NOT as careful"
I blame alcohol for my spelling and grammatical errors.
>>28252463
curious how injured his hands were. I just can't really imagine a way to grip a gun and shoot it without disengaging the grip safety.
>>28252463
>Some dude on AR15 forums noted that with two INJURED hands he couldn't disengage a grip safety when he needed it.
wasn't that the dude who got held up while at a buddy's poker game and ended up in a shootout with the crim?
>>28252211
I don't need one cause I'm not retarded with a gun. If I did end up shooting myself or some thing, would just mean I should not carry at all.
>>28252211
I personally don't see a problem with them. I can understand why people don't like them but I think a manual safety on any gun, even revolvers, is a good thing. If you don't like it, then leave it off. If nothing else it acts as a childproof safety should you be foolish to leave it where a kid could get it.
I once went to a friend's house and saw a Bersa Thunder lying on the counter. Nobody was home when we got there. Naturally, I picked it up and ejected the magazine to find, to my surprise, that it was both real and loaded. If I were a dumbass who didn't know firearm safety somebody could have gotten hurt. I don't remember if the safety was on or not but if it were on it would have saved somebody had I not known how to handle a gun.
>>28252484
I think this is the thread the other anon was talking about.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/988015_My_CCW_Shooting_AAR__Now_with_More_Graphic_Pics_on_pg_29_and_30.html&page=1
>>28252211
>Nobody complains about rifles having manual safeties.
Because rifles don't typically get carried in holsters. If random shit snags your rifle trigger because the trigger isn't covered that is bad. If you have a pistol it is either in the holster, where the trigger is covered, or being used to put holes in things.
That all being said if you prefer a manual safety on your pistol that's fine. The only one that has ever felt good to me is the 1911's but ultimately it doesn't matter as long as you train your ass off.
>>28252484
Both hands got shot while he was fighting off the criminal. He doesn't know how the hell he held on either. Much less clear a jam he had.
>>28252491
Yes, the link >>28252595 posted has the dudes story. Though it wasn't specifically a poker night, just a "sup dude, have a beer" night.
>>28252595
Thank you for the link m80.
Safety can get caught on holster and engage when drawing. This is the only thing I dislike about my mo9 shield
>>28255426
Mp9 my bad.
There is literally no point and every time I have a pistol with a manual safety it ALWAYS ends up being nudged into the ON position.
Meaning, whenever I need to fire, it's unable to do so.
>But you can just train to take the safety off every time you draw!
This complicates the manual of arms and adds fine motor skills to the equation every time. Not a good idea.
>>28252418
Just curious, do you think people should carry revolvers?
>>28255412
An excellent argument against grip safeties AND revolvers. Imagine if the situation was reversed and the bad guy was the one wielding the outdated 5 shot revolver instead of a modern pistol.
>>28252330
>be retarded
>get shot
and so it goes
>>28252418
This post is painfully retarded. In a serious self defense situation your life or well being is hanging by a thread. Chances are that you are going to be shooting at someone who is close enough to you that they could kick you in the groin while you're busy trying to chamber a round.
>>28252211
absolutely nothing is wrong with a pistol having a manual safety.
its just that /k/ believes that the only way to concealed carry is with 1 in the chamber on a safetyless gun. what they don't realize is that when they actually need to use their gun in self defense they will ND into their own legs by attempting to quickly draw a safetyless gun with one in the chamber under stress.
I carry my mak appendix in a lot of no carry zones
the damn thing is always pointed straight in to my thigh so I'm not taking any chances
I'd feel less safe appendix carrying with trigger/grip safeties anyways
>>28252463
>NOT PROTECTED ON RIFLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>I carry my rifle in the holster
>>28255550
um, did you even read the post?
It was the bad guy who had the revolver. And it didn't jam on him.
>>28255689
>not holstering your rifle
>>28255606
Responsible people who carry practice, and go full tex grebner.
>>28255571
I don't ever chamber a round when carrying either. Trigger is too light. Statistically, the chances of an ND or accident are better than the chance that I'll be attacked with lethal force with 0 seconds to chamber a round. The action on my gun is smooth as better and I practice drawing and chambering. I'll take the slight tactical disadvantage for much more safety.
>>28252211
If you carry a gun that has no hammer and it has a safety you should carry it with the safety on in order to prevent it being accidentally engaged.
If you carry a gun with a hammer where the safety can be engaged when the hammer is down, you should only carry with the safety on.
If the safety can only be engaged with the hammer back, then you should only carry either with the hammer down or with the safety on.
I don't care how people like to carry, other than the above. The legit forms of carry are:
With safety on.
With no safety or with hammer down on certain guns.
With no safety on the gun.
Manual safeties attempt to act as a substitute for proper firearms handling.
I handle my firearms properly, therefore any manual safety is just a liability.
That said, I do have a massive hard-on for 1911s.
this is just fine as a safety
>>28252241
Ironically those people who train often are the ones who hate manual safeties on systems with trigger safety features or grip safety features.
>>28252264
I know you don't know how Glocks work, so the grip changes for the angle/depth for Glocks don't require or reach any enternals to be changed. So, if it doesn't even come close to the trigger housing how would it make it a better version to start an aftermarket grip safety? You'd have to make numerous cuts; and the create a system to stop the trigger from reaching it's disconnect.
All the while the XD, XDM and XDS Springfield series have it already. The grip safety on their striker is narrow and annoying but it works.
>>28252211
One word answer: Redundancy.
If the system has a set of safeties and you want add one more; I would ask why.
XDS, XD, and XDM owners typically are for those who are tentative to carrying a Glock, M&P, or one in the chamber w/o the safety engaged. I don't understand the reason for the extra step, and to anyone who think NDs are prevented by a manual safety; unless the safety is for fucking stupidity I don't how you can claim that.
This woman must have her safety off.
>>28252238
You don't need any safety while carrying, the pistol is holstered. Where people ND is handling, and reholstering. Trigger and grip safeties do little to stop an ND. However, a DA trigger or manual safety will stop a trigger from being depressed during holstering and handling.
I'm not saying it is unsafe to carry a glock or XD, I'm just stating that the safety mechanisms do little to reduce the most common causes of ND's (which is of course, user negligence).
Manual safeties and grip safeties come from a time when guns were not drop safe. Nobody wanted to drop a 1911 and shoot themselves. Glocks and most modern handguns have internal safeties (plunger on the inside of slide) that make them drop safe. As a result they do not need manual safeties, this spawned the trigger safety of glocks.
>HURDUR MUH SAFETIES
Doesnt matter unless you are a bumbling idiot.
>>28252211
>What's so bad about manual safeties on pistols?
Nothing. The people who complain think they're going to quick-draw their way out of an armed confrontation.
That being said, they aren't strictly necessary on a pistol that requires a strong, deliberate trigger pull.
>>28256075
Except here's the thing.
Would you carry a 3.5lb SA trigger (with lots of other passive safeties) without a manual safety?
I sure as fuck would carry a 3.5 SA with a manual safety.
>>28256122
3 point 5 pound trigger.
>>28256136
>The people who complain think they're going to quick-draw their way out of an armed confrontation.
Yeah! You'll always have time to rack that slide, and both hands free to do it with too!
>>28256136
>>28256186
>>The people who complain think they're going to quick-draw their way out of an armed confrontation.
Good thing this Brazilian detective always carried without a chambered round, I mean what if he'd had a ND when the gang of a criminal he'd put away staged a hit on him? You never need to have your gun out quickly to respond in self defense!
>>28255550
Reading comprehension mate. The bad guy was the one with the revolver.
Can't decide if troll post or not......
>>28256222
>>28256186
>Nothing. The people who complain think they're going to quick-draw their way out of an armed confrontation.
You will ALWAYS have time to rack your slide, if you're ever in a situation where the extra couple seconds to chamber a round costs you your life, you're dead anyways. Like this guy, who is clearly not dead even though he also clearly had no time to chamber a round!
>2015
>manual safeties on anything that isn't sao
shig
>>28252251
Then why even have a gun?
>>28255689
Re-reading all that, I thought he meant the trigger guard. You know, the bit of metal that goes around the trigger on both pistols and rifles.
>>28256075
>XDS, XD, and XDM owners typically are for those who are tentative to carrying a Glock, M&P, or one in the chamber w/o the safety engaged.
So you're saying that XDs, XD, and XDM all have manual safeties? I can't speak for the XD or XDM, but I carry a XDs and it doesn't have a manual safety. Grip safety and trigger safety are it. No extra step for me to do so I can shoot and my big ass hands can't hold the gun without depressing the grip safety.
>>28256077
>grip and trigger safety does nothing to stop NDs while holstering
wut? Trigger safety doesn't do shit, look at glock leg. I do want to know how you holster though. I take care not to press the grip safety while holstering just in case something does get caught in the trigger guard.
>>28252238
Manual Safety is one more thing to remember when a nigger pulls a knife.
> ask me how I know.
>>28252211
The only safety I'll allow is the 1911 since it's easy peasy to undo in one easy motion as you draw it.
>>28256399
>Re-reading all that, I thought he meant the trigger guard
I think he obviously talking about holsters. All sort of things can slip under trigger guard like vegetation branches, small items stored in the pockets or cars etc. Trigger safety will not protect from that. Holster does, it works as a sort of manual safety device. Of course you don't want to carry gun with trigger safety only without holster fully covering trigger.
>>28252211
the safety lever provides another level of abstraction. You have to think and look, do I have one in the chamber and do I have the safety lever on?
When drawing on an attacker time is of the essence since many assaults are at close range in parking lots. Add the adrenaline as well.
I guess people dont care about long guns because most people don't carry long guns around as a primary defense weapon. Usually use of such a gun is planned out more and in different environments.
>>28256441
>Not having those super-cool pistol bayonets
Did Borderlands inspire you at all, Vault Hunter?
>>28252595
>>28255550
I read that before. I only wonder if a 1911 grip safety would have worked. The XD's grip safety is frigging tiny compared to the grip. A 1911 grip safety is like 90% the with if the rear of the grip.
>>28256122
The firing pin safety still isn't the ultimate safety. The trigger safety is still needed for a good drop safety. Check out the Ruger SR9 recall. The original trigger safety could be activated through momentum if the gun was dropped. The updated Glock-style safety pivots around the center of mass so it won't be activated by momentum unless you throw it like a frisbee.
>>28257896
>unless you throw it like a frisbee
I train so that any shootout will begin (and end) with me hurling my pistol like a boomerang while screaming "straya cunt"
>he doesn't cc a tt-33 with a round in the chamber
>>28257797
It was a 1911 though......
>>28252211
>but a manual safety is just a lever or button you can leave in the off posting and forget about if you wanted to.
Have you ever accidentally flipped a switch when you didnt mean to? I know I have. Carrying a gun with a manual safety when you're not going to use it and trying to use it in self defense could create a deadly scenario of you think the safety is off when it isn't.
>>28258005
What the fuck, first time I read that I could have sworn it was an XD. That's what I get for not reading links ...
>>28252211
Nothing, they stop the LAPD from shooting themselves.
>>28258027
that's why you practice with your carry gun. flipping off the safety should be part of your draw.
