The atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were acts of terrorism.
Civilian population centers were specifically targeted and along with the firebombings of numerous other cities including Tokyo, over a million civilians were killed with millions more displaced. These attacks did not diminish Japan's capacity to wage war however as industrial production and ammunition storage areas were not located in major cities. These attacks were instead designed to create fear.
They were used by the United States of America to incite terror in the population and were the textbook definition of terrorism. Long before the advent of modern muslim extremists, the USA has cowardly practiced committing acts of terror in order to succeed in its objectives.
You may try and debate, you may shitpost, you may even try block out the truth but at the end of the day, we live in a country that not only sanctioned, but practiced terrorism.
>>28103056
>Bombing a city during a world war is terrorism
>>28103056
good
Japs started a Dick Waving contest.
They got blown the fuck out
>>28103056
Better them than us. That's the bottom line. It doesn't matter if 'them' means civilians and 'us' means soldiers. Purple Hearts manufactured in case of a 1945 invasion of Japan are still being awarded today.
Better them than us.
>>28103056
Yes and...? Strategic bombing: "Strategic bombing is a military strategy used in a total war with the goal of defeating the enemy by destroying their morale or their economic ability to produce and transport materiel to the theatres of military operations, or both."
>>28103056
Yeah, it was done to incite enough terror in the population that the war was ended.
History is written by the victors.
Don't act like the US are the only people who bombed a shitton of civilians during that war.
>>28103056
>>28103170
It's silly that people focus so much on the atomic bombings of only two cities, and not on the preceding firebombing campaign that incinerated several more.
>>28103056
>ITT
OP is a buttmad japanophile who thinks Katana's are still viable weapons in the 21st century.
And?
It's why we havent won a war since Nam. We try and fight politically correct wars, which are absolutely unwinable. The only winnable war is total war.
When you get right down to it, RIGHT THE FUCK DOWN TO IT, the objective of any war is to destroy your enemy, or fuck him up so bad he unconditionally surrenders. Period.
>Long before the advent of modern muslim extremists, the USA has cowardly practiced committing acts of terror in order to succeed in its objectives.
Precisely. And it's why the Muslims are winning. Western people have become soft faggots. If the Japs had nukes they would have dropped them en masse, even long after opposing countries surrendered.
>>28103214
>B-b-but muh radiation poisoning
>>28103225
I thought weaboos were a dying breed? Considering the internet's contempt for them, as well as their disinterest in procreation (they got one aspect of Japanese culture right, at least).
>>28103227
This. Every war now has to be fought with 'hearts and minds' and shit.
Wars should be fought with no consideration for 'muh feels' that is constantly spewed by college kids. You either destroy the enemy or you don't win at all.
>>28103056
To be fair, most of the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki had already been bombed into the ground.
>>28103292
Weeaboos aren't Jap sympathizers. Japan is an entirely different country depending on which side of 1945 you're on.
When you look at the shit that the Japs were getting up to in Korea and China, and at their mentality when it came to combat, it would seem more logical to demoralise them rather than to essentially throw bodies at them. Even if there are a few ethical questions.
>>28103056
Fear and Terror was the exact goal of the atomic bombings; we wanted to convince the Nips that further fighting was futile... in a very shock-and-awe way.
Nevertheless, you deserved it. Pearl Harbor is 100% unjustified and it is a 100% act of aggression which can't be debated.
The atomic bombings, however, can be debated. Japan would probably drop 1000 atomic bombs on America if it could.
Get destroyed, Nippon scum
God damn it feels good to be American.
>>28103091
Yes you dumb nigger. That's exactly what unleashing a superweapon on a civilian population is. Hell it's not terrorism, it's attempted genocide.
>>28103056
It was 1945, every combatant country was sanctioning and practicing terrorism. The fate of the world was at hand, and all bets were off by '44.
It was the lesser of two evils.
It was either
1)Drop some nukes on the nips and just end the fucking war
2)Invade mainland Japan and have to kill EVERY. SINGLE. LAST. man, woman, and fucking child. They were fanatical fucks, that were sharpening bamboo into spears in anticipation of the coming American & Soviet invasion
Dropping atomic bombs on people was the humanitarian thing to do, as strange as that sounds.
>>28103356
Not trying to start shit here but...
>what is an oil embargo
It was a war, everyone was right and wrong at the same time, there are no good guys in that situation, just a bunch of dudes trying not to fucking die and make sure their friends, family and way of life dont fucking die. It came down to who had the bigger stick, and this time it was the US.
>>28103056
>implying governments can be held to the same moral standards that their people live by all the time
The leaders of nations aren't going to think about such things when fighting total war. In any case, if japan made the bomb before we did, they would have dropped more than just two.
>>28103488
>inb4 "actually, Japan detonated a nuke three days after the surrender"
>>28103460
>Invade China and most of the South Pacific and commit some of the worst war atrocities ever seen
>Y U RO GIVE ME OIL ANYMORE ROUNDEYE WE BOMB YOU NOW
Yeah. Makes perfect sense
>>28103391
Terrorism: the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.
It is only terrorism when the group attacking has no legitimate political entity to legally be in a war
>>28103356
>Pearl Harbor is 100% unjustified
>Surprise attack on military targets is unjustified
I guess all those sorties the B-2s do are unjustified since we don't let the fools on the ground know it's coming
>>28103604
Well to be fair, the IJN high command did declare war on the United States hours before Peral Harbor. However due to their horrendous fucking logistics, command structre, and Caste system; the declaration never got through.
Also, there is no way to declare war on terrorists. Fighting terrorists is not a war, and even during a war, you dont have to issue a declaration before every attack.
>>28103056
I also assume OP thinks the Bataan Death March and the rapes and murders committed by Japanese soldiers in Nanking were okay.
>>28103643
Pfffft. That aint shit. They would test flamethrowers, biological weapons, and landmines on live children. The Japs were FAAAAAR worse than the Nazis ever were, even if you believe the holohoax lies, but they are the evil ones because they supposedly killed gods chosen people
>>28103557
>some of the worst war atrocities ever seen
Well thats just a matter of perspective, pretty sure ww1 had more casual terrible shit going on, not condoning the fucked up stuff japan did but your kinda showing your bias.
Nice greentext, are you sure your old enough to post here?
Theres always going to be speculation about the alternatives, would japan have dropped bombs of their own? Were they going to surrender anyway? Dropping the bomb was kinda the only action that the us could take, their way of life is built on shows of force, its all they could do.
>>28103635
B-2s dropped bombs on Gaddafi's Libya unannounced, they don't just bomb the turrists.
>>28103391
>Bombing just two cities is genocide
>>28103056
It was an act of war, arguably a war crime.
Hiroshima was a communication hub, staging area and arms stockpile
Nagasaki was a major seaport and arms production area, 90% of the working populace worked for the shipyards and arms factories
Kindly research with a quick and easy google before making fucking retarded statements like "These attacks did not diminish Japan's capacity to wage war however as industrial production and ammunition storage areas were not located in major cities"
They are not the " textbook definition of terrorism" as this was during a war.
It created terror yes, but as it was perpetrated during open warfare it is , argueably, a war crime.
Terrorism as we know it is domestic terrorism, Unlawful attacks by un-uniformed combatants designed to attack without warning for the sole purpose of intimidation
This was an act of war, carrier out by uniformed military personnel, in a marked and interceptable bomber, to attack a pair of targets that had severe impact on Japan's military infrastructure and ability to continue to press the war effort
>>28103717
>arguably a war crime
>war has rules
The only rule is that you have to win.
>>28103604
>I guess all those sorties the B-2s do are unjustified since we don't let the fools on the ground know it's coming
>This person is so dumb he doesn't realize that Pearl harbor happened before the declaration of war, it was an ambush of desperation; and a war crime
>>28103743
Hague, Geneva and many more weren't a thing then?
>>28103056
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military headquarters and industrial centers dedicated to war production. They were military targets in every way.
>>28103762
Nobody followed them, and nobody ratted others out. The only officers who did were either major POGs or did it just to make it look like Geneva conventions were actually being implemented.
Hell, neither sides of the war really followed them.
The only reason why we do now is because modern militaries are absolutely riddled with bureaucracy.
>>28103762
Japan didn't ratify them, so they weren't obliged to follow them. This of course means that the US had no reason to hold back, since they weren't protected by them either. In all honesty, the Allies really didn't have the grounds to conduct war trials on them, and really should of just let every nation that was at war with Japan, to conduct there own acts of revenge on the country.
>>28103813
>Hell, neither sides of the war really followed them.
Thats because it was a global war, you aren't gonna have a dig at the guy in the same foxhole you are, nations where the same
>The only reason why we do now is because modern militaries are absolutely riddled with bureaucracy.
We do now because globally polarising warfare is almost an impossibility, and due to this nations have interests not friends
>>28103762
>Hague, Geneva, et cetera
enforceable by whom exactly?
Is NATO or the UN going to bring the potus, sec. of defense, etc. into a trial to enforce these rules?
and if we refuse to attend said trial? they sanction us.
Who the hell cares?
US and China are 32% of the world GDP. They can't survive so easily without either of us.
>>28103691
>Well thats just a matter of perspective,
Not really, but way to be a cockslurping apologist.
>Were they going to surrender anyway?
No, and that's backed by a multitude of historical evidence.
Kill yourself, Nip.
>>28103056
It's too bad the japs beheaded women and children, and killed POWs right?
>I'll feed the troll
>grandfather 1 was USMC in 1940 before Pearl, and used to tell us kids about hand to hand combat on Guad, Tarawa, and Peleliu leading up to Oki, killing those squint eyed shits by the dozen
>grandfather 2 was on USS Enterprise 1941-1945, used to wake up in the middle of the night talking some crazy shit in the middle of the night about GQ
Fuck Japan. They got what they deserved.
>>28103691
>Rape of Nanking and the like was bad
>Well thats just a matter of perspective
are you fucking serious?
>>28103762
Nobody follows those rules. They're just a way for the winner to justify executing the loser.
>>28103056
>Civilian population centers were specifically targeted
Stopped reading
>Two wrongs make a right
>>28103460
hate to break up your little hugcircle mentality, but some ways of life need to get shot to shit. like a death cult pretending to be bushido, or a genocidal expansionist mlitary state. take your moral relativism and shove it up your ass, tojo.
If Dredsen and Hiroshima happened today it would be morally unacceptable. Japan implemented the three alls policy in China with the idea that it would break Chinese resistance faster and end the war too.
>>28104022
The World Wars were more like several million wrongs all over the place. Trying to moralize it in any way is stupid. It happened. People did bad things. It was sad. It barely matters now.
>>28104074
It barely matters now.
>Those who forget history
>>28103691
Executing POW's and torturing them is actively worse than dumping mustard gas on an active enemy combatant. They have the opportunity to run for the masks/suits, run, fight, whatever.
POW's get nothing. If they fight bac, they die. If they don't, they die.
As an Australian, the treatment of Australian and Newzealand POW's by Japan is an issue I keep very close to me.
http://www.anzacday.org.au/history/ww2/anecdotes/deathrailway.html
There is no justification for such an act. POW's should be fed the minimum requirement, or released. If you want to fuck with them and kill them because it's war, fine. Don't complain when you get fucking nuked. EVERY country new about japans horrific treament of prisoners. Some soldiers killed themselves rather than letting themselves be captured. It was probably a better fate.
But, I'm not angry at Japan any more. It was a war fought close to a hundred years ago. The past is the past.
Because now Japan give me my delicious Imouto porn.
>>28104166
Live happily ever after.
>>28103056
it was either this of Operation Downfall.
>In April 1945, the Joint Chiefs of Staff formally adopted a planning paper giving a range of possible casualties based on experience in both Europe and the Pacific. Given a troop list of 766,700 men and a 90-day campaign, the US Sixth Army could be expected to suffer between 514,072 casualties (including 134,556 dead and missing) under the "Pacific Experience" (1.95 dead & missing and 7.45 total casualties/1,000 men/day) and 149,046 casualties (including 28,981 dead and missing) under the "European Experience" (0.42 dead & missing and 2.16 total casualties/1,000 men/day).
guess which one we chose.
>>28104417
>it was either this of Operation Downfall.
Yeah that's a fallacy. A continued bombing campaign would've achieved the same result except with less radiation.
>>28104417
I don't even know why burgers think nuclear bombs were a shock when firebombing was equally devastating. The soviets invading was probably a bigger push for Japan to surrender.
>>28103056
congratulations, you made the first step in realizing rhetoric about "laws of war" "terrorism" and "aggression" are simply political tools used by groups which are better equipped, more organized, and more established to demonize groups that are poorly armed, disorganized, or emerging.
what is terrorism?
a. targeting civilians?
b. scaring people?
c. non-conventional warfare?
d. any combination of these?
all have been military tactics employed by every major power since the dawn of time
there is no separation between conflict, terrorism and war
There's a copypasta picture that pretty much summarizes most of US's view of it at the time. Plus, when you integrate your military industrial buildings into local populations, don't get butthurt when shit like that happens.
Also, don't piss off Curtis Lemay.
>"The first B-29s to arrive dropped bombs in a large X pattern centered in Tokyo's densely populated working class district near the docks in both Koto and Chuo city wards on the water; later aircraft simply aimed near this flaming X. The individual fires caused by the bombs joined to create a general conflagration. Approximately 15.8 square miles (4,090 ha) of the city was destroyed and some 100,000 people are estimated to have died. A grand total of 282 of the 339 B-29s launched for "Meetinghouse" made it to the target, 27 of which failed to return due to enemy action, mechanical failure, or being caught in updrafts caused by the massive fires"
>>28104451
>A continued bombing campaign would've achieved the same result except with less radiation.
Because a strong willed people TOTALLY cave to bombing raids, The Bong where begging for surrender terms. So where the Germans, we totally didn't have to fight all the way into Berlin to force a surrender
>>28103927
Get the fuck off your anecdotal high horse.
War is war.
The US threw shit tons of civilians in camps because they were of Japanese heritage. Concentration camps remind you of anything?
The Krauts blitzed London and the Britbongs firebombed Dresden.
Your grandpappy's stories doesn't make anyone right.
>>28104500
>>28104451
There are any number of continued bombing campaigns to choose from that didn't produce the desired result of the enemy caving. Pick one.
>achieved the same result except with less radiation.
If you really think the radiation was that big of a deal, and the impact of the very idea of a single bomb obliterating an entire city in '45 wasn't a huge factor, you should just off yourself right here and now.
>>28104472
>adurrdurr, the whole nuclear weapon thing totally wasn't pantshittingly terrifying to anyone and the harbinger of a completely incomprehensible scale of immediate destruction and death for the people of the time
Jesus, I thought foreignfags were supposed to have better education or something.
>>28104615
what the fuck are you even trying to say here?
>>28104615
>The US threw shit tons of civilians in camps because they were of Japanese heritage. Concentration camps remind you of anything?
Did the US force their "prisoners" to do slave labor?
Did they enforce "shooting squads" where if one member of a group tries to escape and caught, he and the others will be executed?
Did they beat up prisoners, made them bayonet/target practice just for the heck of it?
Compared to Japanese concentration camps, those inside US "camps" were living like kings.
>>28104615
>he US threw shit tons of civilians in camps because they were of Japanese heritage. Concentration camps remind you of anything?
Somebody very dear to me who was in the Tule Lake camp died recently.
It remains a black spot on our record, but nobody died in them.
Unfuck yourself.
>>28104699
I can sum it up;
>blah blah blah americans just as bad as nazis because muh ethnic internment
>blah blah war is war no one is right or wrong blah
>blah blah muh moral relativism blah blah blah
>>28104615
>The US threw shit tons of civilians in camps because they were of Japanese heritage. Concentration camps remind you of anything?
The fact you are even beginning to compare the internment camps for the Japanese to fucking Auschwitz and Dachau is a good indication that you should kill yourself.
>>28104712
>>28104730
That doesn't change the fact that people were rounded up based on their ethnicity/origin
The point is that nobody is right and that the fucker up there is acting like the side he's on is somehow better than anyone else's.
>>28104733
>>28104699
War transcends ethics and morality. War does not determine who is right, merely who is left. Any actions taken in pursuit of survival is justified..
>>28103369
>Hideki Tojo was moved to Sugamo Prison. While there he received a new set of dentures made by an American dentist. The phrase "Remember Pearl Harbor" had been secretly drilled into the teeth in Morse code.[34]
>>28104615
Nigger, my old ass grandfathers would slip your throat while you slept and not even give two shits about it. B8 or not, fuck you faggot.
>>28104761
Fuck you. Fuck your apologist bullshit. Fuck your liberal arts-taught moral relativism. Kill yourself.
>>28104774
Exactly. Nobody is fucking right in war.
There's a difference between eliminating an enemy using any means necessary and doing the same thing while claiming to be a fucking saint.
>>28104761
> acting like the side he's on is somehow better than anyone else's.
That's probably because it was, as anyone with something resembling a soul and a decent grasp on history can attest. The US was better than the Nips and Nazis. End of.
>War transcends ethics and morality.
Oh, you're just retarded. Whatever.
I smelled poofter revisionism. This the right place?
>>28104775
How is that apologist bullshit?
I'm saying do what needs to be done to eliminate the enemy, but do it without some emotional bullshit claiming you're some sort of fucking savior it's annoying.
Don't apologize. Get the job done and fuck anyone who demands that you say you're doing it in the name of peace or democracy or freedom.
>>28104761
No. Considering that both sides did bad things, tell me, which one did worst and which one would be the better side?
The US did some shit here and there, but compared to the Japanese, the US were way better. Hell the Japanese made the Nazis look like fucking saints.
>>28104761
you are a rambling idiot.
>>28104832
My statement is thus:
Who gives a fuck? Certainly not the dead people. There is no worse side.
And if someone had nothing to do to it, then they have no reason to be anally pained over it, either.
What, their ancestors died? Everyone's fucking ancestors died. That's the whole point of having children.
>>28104856
Ad hominen harder.
>>28103056
>Long before the advent of modern muslim extremists,
That happened late in the 11th century. Ask your World History teacher about it.
>>28104874
Are you actually high right now?
>>28103056
First of all, you should learn a bit about history. In order to defeat Japan, the U.S. only had 2 options. Invade the country, or force them to submit. Which option saved more American lives? It may not have been ideal, but that's how war works. It's a terrible thing, but it had to be done.
>>28104882
No. As autistic as this sounds, I believe drugs are for the weak.
>>28104878
Actual history doesn't pertain to these threads, silly.
>>28104889
Aight, oblivious 'tard it is then.
>>28104874
>Who gives a fuck?
Those who suffered under Jap rule? Why do you think there are quite a lot out there still frothing at the mouth anytime the Japanese announce their presence? They haven't even properly apologized and is revising their history to make it look like the Japanese didn't start the whole thing. You don't see a lot of Jews getting anally devastated each time the Germans come up calling do you?
>>28103391
The atomic bombings were legal acts under the laws of war in effect at the time.
They would still be legal today, if all other conditions were the same as in 1945.
Just because something hurts your feelings doesn't make it an illegal act.
>>28104910
Lots of countries do the same thing.
Can we really say that we've never revised history for a political agenda?
Besides, they didn't start the whole thing. It was war. They may have thrown the first swing, but nobody in the fight was right.
It's essentially like yelling "He started it!!!" on the playground.
>>28104874
>why do people care about the past duuuuuude
fuck off already, faggot
>>28103227
About the objective of war, there are things called the rules of wars. Heard of them? There are limits you know
>>28104928
>They may have thrown the first swing
That's starting it you dipshit.
>>28104928
>they didn't start the whole thing
Wow, you're actually this really fucking retarded. Do you even know your history?
>They may have thrown the first swing
Contradicting yourself are you now?
>>28104761
Simple question. Would you rather have been in a Japanese "internment" camp or an American internment camp?
>>28103056
They saved a metric crapton of lives on both sides, according to causality estimates for a mainland invasion.
We did both of us a favor.
>>28104948
The past is important, attempting to apply modern morality to in an attempt to justify past actions is not. No justification is necessary on any side.
>>28104959
>>28104969
If I were to threaten your family or your friends, would you not feel obligated to take action to stop me? They were supporting Allied war efforts and the Japs were Axis.
And even if we were to take your statement:
>B-but, teacher, he started it!
Who gives a fuck who started it as a matter of morality? The point is that it happened. It should be studied, but it shouldn't have fucking Tumblr level emotional appeals thrown into the mix.
>>28104976
>Two wrongs make a right
>>28104928
>>28104874
>>28104761
>>28104615
>>28103691
>>28103460
This, children, is why it's good to every once in a while poke your head out above the masturbatory haze that is campus dialogue.
If you don't, you wind up sounding like this. Don't be this anon, collegefags and soon to be collegefags.
>>28104988
>that question dodging tho
>>28103460
You lie. You are trying to start shit.
We embargoed Japan because they were landgrabbing all over SE Asia. They were also getting near-genocidal in China, and we had a weird protective boner for China during that time.
So, I guess you need to take your revisionist history and Jap apologist bullshit and pound them up your ass.
>>28103056
>These attacks did not diminish Japan's capacity to wage war however as industrial production and ammunition storage areas were not located in major cities.
You dumb nigger, Hiroshima was the site of a military base and Nagasaki was where a huge portion of industry was conducted
>>28104988
You're right in that two wrongs don't make a right, but you also completely missed the point of the question.
>>28104988
What in the flying fuck?
Take a look at your statement and think really hard if you still have half a brain to put together. Now answer this; why did America embargoed Japan which led to Japan sucker-punching America huh?
I still can't fucking believe a person this literally mentally challenged still manages to breathe
>>28104988
I highly suggest throwing in a historiography course and research class into your schedule next semester, it'll probably help you. We can hope the added benefit of you learning how to string together a solid and coherent argument will also be a thing, so you won't sound like an idiot stoned out of his goddamned skull. Not that it isn't funny.
>>28103743
You might want to study up on the laws of war.
>>28104989
Are you fucking kidding me? I fucking wish the liberal, moralistic fuckheads in the colleges agreed with me.
You just label anyone who disagrees with you some random group that you dislike due to being either unable or unwilling to provide a better argument.
>>28104996
>>28105009
>>28104976
The question is irrelevant. We do not live in that time. Adding morality to history serves only to provide justification to future actions.
>>28105024
Why does it matter? It happened and in the end, the /k/ube was given proper tribute.
>>28103056
>Hiroshima and Nagasaki were only filled with civilians!!!!
>Still believing this bullshit.
The very fact that the above is false means OP is a faggot.
>>28105041
Nice job dodging the question faggot. Proves just how brain dead you can get. There's a reason we study history you dumb moron.
>>28104874
>Who gives a fuck?
Reasonable, no sociopathic people
>There is no worse side.
Objectively false, a claim commonly used by war crime apologists
>And if someone had nothing to do to it, then they have no reason to be anally pained over it, either.
Other than basic human decency? how about continued awareness of the horrors of history to spot for warning signs of repeat performances
>What, their ancestors died? Everyone's fucking ancestors died. That's the whole point of having children.
Mass murder, forced medical experiments and torture are totally fine now guys! Yeah totally, I mean people gotta die at some point right? I just had a great idea, post-natal euthanising I mean they had a kid, purpose surved
>Ad hominen harder.
That wasn't an ad hom as he wasn't discrediting your argument with insult, as your argument discredited it's self. It was merely an insult
If I were supposed to invade a hostile country with massive casualties expected and my leaders decided NOT to use a superweapon that could end the enemy without my having to expose myself I would make every attempt to desert, because clearly those in charge are willing to waste my life rather than spend it.
>>28105041
hate to break it to you boo, but people 70 years ago would consider an American internment camp a far sight less horrifying than a kraut death camp, just like we do today, so, you know, sit and spin moron.
>>28105041
>being either unable or unwilling to provide a better argument. You have failed categorically to provide any argument beyond "History: It not Real!"
>>28103056
Yellow rat Chinese bastard here. You can go eat a dick.
>>28103056
The atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not enough.
Civilian population centers are especially of concern and along with the Hoplophobia of numerous other cities including Tokyo, over a million civilians are noguns with millions more deceived. These attacks did not diminish Japan's capacity to over-regulate, however, as political bureaucracy and massive conformity areas extend outside major cities. These attacks were indeed designed to fail without the third bomb.
They were used by the United States of America to incite shock in the population and were the textbook definition of an unfinished job. Long before the advent of modern firearms, Japan has improperly practiced the egregious act of committing to strict gun control objectives.
You may try and debate, you may shitpost, you may even try block out the truth but at the end of the day, we live in a world that not only let Hirohito live, but won't deal the final blow.
>>28103227
>>28103292
No the reason the US haven't "Won" any wars is they have failed to understand that they are inept at fighting local insurgencies and made utter fools out of their fighting men and women by not having clear and achievable goals.
The bongs have had Ireland for centuries and don't have the "Hearts an minds" of the people
You cannot win the hearts and minds of people by any other means than buying their lives, and therefor their loyalty. Just like they did with Japan and Germany after WW2, just like they have failed to do in every conflict since.
>>28103091
>definition of "terrorism" when the word was originally conceived was government terror bombings of civilian targets in warfare
>government stole the word and redefined it for their own propaganda
>>28105154
I'm a chink as well. Triggered beyond belief atm
>>28105225
Even if we take your definition of it, the 2 bombs where not terror attacks as they where both major strategic posts for the Japanese war effort
>>28103678
>even if you believe the holohoax
Well, you made it almost one reply without cringeworthily outing yourself as a stormfag.
>>>/pol/
>>28105287
And that's why the vast proportion of bomb victims were civilians.
Indiscriminate attacks on civilian targets is the very definition of terror bombing.
>>28105287
>both major strategic posts
>Nagasaki was literally only targeted because of the weather and a faulty fuel pump
>>28105420
moreover the target selection focused almost entirely on propaganda value
hiroshima and nagasaki were both put on the list because they were relatively untouched by conventional bombs and the US war criminals wanted a damage survey
>>28105352
And that shows your lack of research, the reason for the large numbers of civilian targets in Hiroshima was Japanese municipal failure in maintaining the separation of residential and industrial sites, and allowing factories and shipyards producing arms to be interleaved with housing.
Also when people are producing for the war effort they are no longer merely civilian an is Nagasaki was a major arms manufactory and shipyard for the navy, 90% of the cities workforce where involved in Shipbuilding, weapons and ammunition creation and steel works.
Japanese failures caused Hiroshima to have a long term human shield.
Difficulties with radar where all that saved Hiroshima from a long term conventional bombing campaign
>>28105438
So when the Boeing plant in Tacoma gets bombed to shit no doubt you won't mew about war crimes because the machinists all lived nearby.
>>28105461
I think you're the only one in the thread who has trouble with the concept of nuclear exchange, so, no, I don't think he would be crying war crimes at that.
>>28105461
Correct, Assuming it is a legal war that has been declared, as a Boeing plant would be directly contribution to the war effort of America
>>28105481
>implying
Double standards are at the very heart of US government apologetics
>>28105494
What double standards are you claiming here?
How else would you attempt to reduce the danger your enemy poses than to attack their ability to continue to produce weapons and steel?
>>28105494
>it wasn't a war crime, there were loads of military sites in the city
>OH YEAH, WELL WHAT IF TACOMA WAS NUKED BECAUSE OF THE OINGOBOINGO PLANT
>That's how nuclear war is you moron, shitloads of cities are turned to vapor because they had an airbase or plant or port or whatever.
>DOUBLE STANDARDS
Are...are you trying to be stupid?
>>28103292
winning wars with politic and subversion has allowed for the perfection of social control, which defeats the purpose of warring in the first place, as nobody knows whos trolling who anymore, the flow of information is fucked and the prevalence and propagation of propaganda has turned borders to mush
>>28105494
>>28105514
The point is the vast majority of victims in Hiroshima and Nagasaki had nothing to do with war production. Hence the war crime.
It's like if Tacoma was wiped off the map and a couple thousand of the hundred thousand victims actually worked at Boeing. No doubt the apologists would be screaming war crime at the top of their lungs, and they would be right this time around.
But when the US does it, it's a-ok. Double standard.
>>28105553
You're dumb. You know that, right?
>>28105525
>only one side had nukes in 1945
apologists moving goalposts, as always.
>>28103056
>mfw both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were targeted because they were major centers of Japanese military activity
>mfw the total death toll of both bombings combined were, at MOST, only ~10% greater than the firebombing of Tokyo
>mfw we spared Japan the fate of being raped by soviets.
>mfw the Japanese committed war atrocities that would make Hitler cringe
>>28105584
It's literally like you're just slapping together phrases from a debate textbook and posting them online in the hope they'll make a coherent point while remaining relevant to the topic at hand. They don't do either of things, if you were wondering.
>>28105553
>The point is the vast majority of victims in Hiroshima and Nagasaki had nothing to do with war production. Hence the war crime.
[CITATION NEEDED]
Hiroshima was confused as fuck that they hadn't been attacked as a major communications hub for the defense of the entire of Southern Japan and had large stockpiles of supplies that had remained relatively untouched up to that point, leading many to think the American where keeping in in 1 piece as a possible base when the invasion started
90% of Nagasaki's Industry directly contributed to the war effort and as such where open targets, the only reason they had not been heavily bombed prior was a problem with the radar in the area.
So care to tell me again how a HQ for 400,000 troops and a city the is 90% war production are "Nothing to do with the war"
>>28105638
>we spared the villagers at My Lai the pain of being extorted by the VC by murdering them all
Dennis Prager pls go
>>28105651
Defend Hiroshima/Nagasaki by talking about a two-sided nuclear exchange isn't exactly a coherent argument.
But hey, whatever works in your head.
>>28105653
>implying the relationship between the soviets and the Japanese can be compared to the average Vietnamese villager and the VC
>Implying that an attack on Japan by Soviet forces could possibly be compared to a single american war crime
>Implying these two things are comparable in any sense.
stupid faggot pls go
>>28105652
>90% of Nagasaki's Industry directly contributed to the war effort
Citation needed
>HQ for 400,000 troops
Except most of them weren't even in the city.
Is it acceptable to nuke an entire city to wipe out a few mid level officers?
>>28105664
>Defend Hiroshima/Nagasaki by talking about a two-sided nuclear exchange isn't exactly a coherent argument.
It doesn't fucking matter how one-sided the nuclear exchange is when the principle behind the targeting of strategic sites for attack, regardless of civilian inhabitants, is acknowledged and perceived as valid, you fucking retard.
>>28103292
>I thought weaboos were a dying breed?
Considering 4chan, a website for weeaboos, is more popular than ever I would have to say no.
>>28105461
are you actually clueless about how the third world war would have gone down?
>>28105670
>using hypothetical scenarios that never occurred to defend real war crimes
America, fuck yeah.
>>28103056
>everyone gets buttmad about Hiroshima and Nagasaki
>Not a word about Tokyo and Dresden firebombings
Yeah... sure... ok
>>28103056
>Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't military targets!!!!!!
This meme needs to die: http://www.college.columbia.edu/core/sites/core/files/pages/Paul%20Fussel-Thank%20God%20for%20the%20Atom%20Bomb-August%201981.pdf
>>28105687
>is acknowledged and perceived as valid
By whom? You?
Even some generals in the Chiefs of Staff at the time thought the atomic bombings were unconscionable.
>>28105712
You realize that this whole conversation is a hypothetical, right? The bombings already happened; there's nothing we can do about it. That's all there is to it. To bitch and whine about it is totally pointless. All I'm doing is putting things in perspective.
Let's pretend Operation Downfall actually happened. Do you think the fewer people, or just fewer Japanese civilians, would have died?
>>28105727
And the guy you originally replied to, you petulant child. You know, the one you asked whether he'd consider the attack on Tacoma a warcrime in some retarded attempt at flipping the tables, and then getting all tuckustroubled when he didn't?
>Even some generals in the Chiefs of Staff at the time
Okay, well, how about a shitload of vets and the POTUS at the time thinking it was needed, if we're playing that angle, you cuntnozzle.
>>28105684
>>90% of Nagasaki's Industry directly contributed to the war effort
>Citation needed
U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey: The Effects of the Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, June 19, 1946.
I've cited my source at 1st request, can you provide any for your claims?
>Except most of them weren't even in the city
>Is it acceptable to nuke an entire city to wipe out a few mid level officers?
>Headquarters for the entire south of japan is "A few mid level officers"
Good job ignoring the other things said about the stockpiles of stores that where also in the city.
Also most of the civilian casualties in Hiroshima where in the resulting firestorm and the government had no installed firefighting lessons learned from Tokyo
>>28103056
Could be wrong or jumping on an oft-repeated bandwagon, but...
My memory seems to recall Hiroshima was a critical port and center of manufacture, while Nagasaki was one of THE leading industrial centers in wartime Japan.
Then again, obvious bait is obvious. Take advice as you will.
>>28105754
>random poster on 4chan says the targeting is legitimate therefore a blanket statement saying that everyone agrees with him is also correct
what is argumentum ad populum
Also implying the opinion of a politician who literally had no argument other than "Because I can" should be used to justify the morality of the bombings.
sage
Zipper head's deserved it
>>28105778
>Also most of the civilian casualties in Hiroshima where in the resulting firestorm and the government had no installed firefighting lessons learned from Tokyo
>it is Japan's fault that American bombs caused civilian casualties
That's like saying it is China's fault that civilians didn't get gas masks so they all choked to death under Japanese chemical attack
What the fuck is it with American colleges and their promotion of self-loathing for Western Civilization?
>>28105873
>switches from "do you think this would be right" to "does everyone think this is right"
Hang yourself, child.
>>28105887
>not sure if repeatedly b8ing or actually this awful at debating
>>28103135
Jesus Christ thats intense
could you provide a source?
>>28105778
>http://myweb.lmu.edu/jmureika/wmd/Documents/Nuclear/HandN.pdf
>Ctrl+F 90%
>Ctrl+F war effort
Nope
>>28105887
No it's like saying it's a governments fault that a fire raged out of control in the middle of a war, despite dozens of cities having been told to put the measures in place.
Hiroshima didn't take place fire fighting measures in place out of complacency.
A closer analogy would be it's Americas fault that they couldn't clear the bodies and throw them in a lake and then drank the water
>>28105002
> Near Genocidal...
Son... they killed 18 Million Chinese before 1941, they went well past Genocidal.
>>28105921
>The four largest companies in the city were the Mitsubishi Shipyards,
Electrical Equipment Works, Arms Plant, and Steel Works, employing
nearly 90 percent of the city’s labor force
>>28105918
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/1801
I think the stock was recently depleted, but I can't find a source for that.
>>28105921
>The other three Mitsubishi firms, which were
responsible together with the dockyards for over 90 percent of the
industrial output of the city, were seriously damaged
>>28105921
did you try "90 percent" or was that too complicated?
>>28103056
Depends on the definition of terrorism but then its only really a semantic argument which is pointless.
Typically though some would say that States are incapable of terrorism through their official acknowledged actions in times of war.
States may sponsor terrorism but such actions are covert and rarely admitted to.
Was the nuclear bombing of Japan a war crime, probably. So were the fire bombings.
But by the same token so was the rape of Nanking or the Jap's executions of POWs.
War crimes happen in war mate, the winner prosecutes the loser not the other way around.
War is hell not justice.
>>28103056
It's only terrorism if you lose.
>>28105921
>The other three Mitsubishi firms, which were
>responsible together with the dockyards for over 90 percent of the
>industrial output of the city, were seriously damaged
If you're going to ask for cited sources at least take the time to read them, I'm still waiting on any citation for your claims that the US would claim a strike on a likewise strategic city would be a warcrime
>>28103056
>hurr durr terrorism is a real thing
Terrorism is a buzzword, a spin-word applied to any violence you don't approve of. Labeling something as terrorism doesn't mean a single thing in ethical terms. Bombing civilian populations is terrorism, and so is liquidating hundreds of Phillippino villages the way the Japanese did, and bombing a country for sanctioning you, as Japan did at Pearl Harbor. Everyone engaged in terrorism. Learn to Realpolitik.
>>28105968
>Pearl Harbor
Yeah, I'm sure those thousands of men firing at the japs from AAA installations were totally terrified and defenseless. How dare they sink USN vessels, those dirty terrorists!
>>28105921
It's time to quit, anon.
You stupid fuckers are responding to one of the oldest fucking bait copypastas.
>>28103762
>>28105039
Yea they only apply to the loser
>>28103056
>Japanese bomb us first
>And immediately afterwards launch military campaigns occupying most of Asia
>Said occupations were often brutal as shit
>Commit war crimes on a massive proportion
Yeah nah, Imperial Japan had that coming. Furthermore Hiroshima was an Army headquarters and had a garrison of several thousand troops in it when the bomb fell.
>>28105968
No Terrorism, in its current sense refers to domestic terrorism.
It is an act of violence by an entity that is not a state for the purpose of intimidation or coercion
The groups are not states and as such cannot make a legal declaration of war, and due to this are under no obligation to follow international law on matters for example humane treatment of prisoners or mandating uniformed combatants
Just because you don't understand a word does not mean it's a "buzzword"
>>28106038
That's why we hold our own soldier to the same requirements and put them on trial if found to be in breach of them.
Oh and have clauses in military charters that allow soldiers to refuse orders that they believe to be criminal in nature.
And...?
It was war, and the war was started by the japs, what's your point?
>>28106041
>Japanese bomb us first
None of our cities were ever bombed, the fuck are you talking about?
>>28106041
>Japanese bomb us first
>And immediately afterwards launch military campaigns occupying most of Asia
Got that backwards hun, polish up on your history.
>>28103056
Somebody please kill the internet. It hurts and it burns.
>>28103056
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIuFB-dc6iE
>Implying murricans did not target them both.
>>28103056
Well yeah I can agree with that. That said it's not like we or anyone else in the allies are ever going to pay for these war crimes since we won and everything
>>28103056
>These attacks did not diminish Japan's capacity to wage war however as industrial production and ammunition storage areas were not located in major cities.
How can you be this stupid you mouthbreathing retard?
>>28103056
Cities with industrial or logistical assets are pretty legitimate targets by the laws of the day, and Hiroshima had not only both of those but also a major military command. Nagasaki was built around its steelworks. Pretty cut and dry cases for both to be nuked, I'd say.
>>28107902
>Nagasaki was built around its steelworks
Fucking LOL, the main mill was 30km away in Saika. At least do some research before shitposting like this.
>>28103056
best bait of 2015
10/10
would buy
>>28107931
The fuck are you smoking, kid?
>>28103678
>>>/pol/
>>28108617
>please leave this is a safe space
>>28108617
go back to reddit faggot
no one will hurt your feelings there
>>28106104
>The USA voluntarily does some shit to make itself feel better.
>This means that there are real, binding rules to follow.
>>28108617
>No shut up /pol/, only nazis were in WWII, STOP WITH THE FACTS JAPAN DID NOTHING WRONG
Even the fucking Canadians had domestic labor camps in WWII. No world-power country can realistically say they did nothing morally bankrupt during the Second World War, period. Japan especially.
>>28108640
>>28108650
>>28108865
>BAWW WHY ISN'T MY STUPID SHIT ALLOWED ON OTHER BOARDS
Go back to /pol/, nobody will ban you there.
