Is there ANY reason to still prefer a pump shotgun over an AR or AK in a defensive situation?
>low capacity
>slow to reload
>limited range, even with slugs
>not as customizable
>bulkier
While scatterguns still have valid uses for hunting, riot control (beanbag rounds), and some "tactical" breaching applications, seems like a modern semiauto rifle is far, far superior in almost any defensive situation. Thoughts?
>>28096840
A good semi auto rifle is way more expensive than a pump gun.
Its a lot cheaper and a step up from your handguns in terms of putting holes into something.
I guess if i really want to put someone down, itd just load up some 3" magnium slugs and im pretty sure itd knock someone on their ass along with whatever chunk of body into the walls and maybe into that sleeping baby across the street.
>>28096840
It looks better to the judge and jury than an AR or AK.
This isnt the movies where a platoon of bad guys are storming your house, you should have enough rounds in the shotgun.
>>28096840
>Is there ANY reason to still prefer a pump shotgun over an AR or AK in a defensive situation?
Bear defense.
>>28096840
if youre better with it. im better with my 870 than i am with my AR. they can be pretty customizable to your needs.
but really if youre using it for a defensive purpose....
>whynotboth.jpg?
>>28096840
>an AR or an AK as HD
I Hope you guys seriously don't do this.
Using 5.56 or 7.62 in a closed area at night?
Do you (and your family) want to become blind and deaf?
Do you want to ruin your house?
Do you want everyone of your neighbors to freak out?
Jesusfuck just get a suppressed 22lr what the fuck is wrong with you?
>>28096840
>Usable in any configuration in all 50 states, even ban states like New Jersey don't restrict features on pump shotguns. This is extremely important to me because a neutered AR or AK would cost me more than $700 here.
>You can buy 3 pump shotguns for the price of an AK or AR
>In distances indicative of suburban, urban, and in home settings, firing 4 buck and up will fuck someone up if not kill them
>You do need to aim, but at 15 yards of more using a home defense choke, your one aimed shot at the center mass will hit MULTIPLE vital organs and arteries. Under that distance it will do worse things to a smaller area
>Extremely reliable and easy to maintain, lower chance of misfires absent of short stroking
>>28096888
This is why I own one. I live in Texas but if someone breaks in I'm not filling him 7n6 and screaming get out of here stalker. I. Shooting him with "double ought 12 gaaaaguh because the pumping noise didn't scare him off and I was in fear for my life against a crazed attacker"
>>28096945
most informed response here
>>28096840
Because a #12x89mm slug with a zippo-pin will fuck things up.
>>28096959
Ty senpai
>>28096953
This is why I love GA. All I have to do is prove that he wasn't invited into my house because of expanded castle doctrine laws. No need to show a fear for my life.
>>28096945
>Second this
Also penetration, not in the human body but the walls of homes. A fmj 7.62 can easily go through a wall and enter your neighbors home depending on where you live. And then you might get charged with endangering the neighbors or worst case actually hit them
>>28096891
Would the ATF have a shitfit if you just dropped the stock off an 870 and slapped it under an AR? What even is that, an AOW?
>>28096996
I completely understand, but if the story goes public and you shoot the next tray tray you'll turn into the next ZimZam and be fucked
>>28096997
this, overpenetration is an extremely important factor to consider, especially if you live in an apartment or similar situation.
>>28097005
That would require there to be a DA nearby that gives enough of a fuck or the Sheriff to not give me a medal for it.
>>28096840
>low capacity
00 Buck shoots 12 8.4mm projectiles INSTANTLY.
>range
True. Unless it's a slug gun but then you can't use shot.
>not as customizable
Not true if you include the infinite custom and homemade loads. There's even a tazer shell.
>bulkier
True but if you made it like a rifle it would be even more bulky.
>>28096840
My shotgun is a superior home defense gun to an AR or AK.
>muh stopping power
>muh overpenetration
None of this shit you're talking about is relevant to "defensive situations"
>slow to reload
You're not doing a run and gun, you're defending your house. 8 rounds of 12 gauge will be enough to make all baddies leave in a box or out the door.
>limited range, even with slugs
Literally 100% irrelevant in a defensive situation
>not as customizable
A light is enough, are you a tacticool mallninja?
>bulkier
My pump action shotgun is the same length as my AR.
>>28096943
>Do you (and your family) want to become blind and deaf?
wuuuuut?
You're going to lose hearing no matter what you shoot indoors
>Jesusfuck just get a suppressed 22lr what the fuck is wrong with you?
Oh, it's supposed to be humor, I see.
>>28096943
>Do you want to ruin your house?
We've been over this, everything but birdshot will zip through your house like 5.56 FMJ but 5.56 soft point will fragment when it hits drywall.
>>28097001
i have no idea. thats not mine
If the person attacking you is a homosexual and sees that you have a shotgun they might feel some empathy towards you and stop attacking.
>>28097090
Homeowners insurance helps with that.
>>28097090
solid brick house master race
>>28097001
sbs if the total length is too short (26" minimum) or an unwieldy piece 7' of shit if it is legal, masterkeys are usually a SBS
>>28096840
In the dark, when employed by someone with less training/experience, a hallway filled with #4 buck is hard to argue with. If you fire more than the 6-8 shots most pump guns will hold in defense of your life / family / property, you are definitely going to be famous.
>>28096997
Castle doctrine is nice for this. If anyone other than the intruder is injured or killed, it is the fault of the intruder. But you'd have to be a retard using an FMJ heavy bullet and never think about firing lanes to make that happen anyways.
>>28096840
5.56 NATO is designed to wound and maim. A 3" 12 ga shell filled with 000 Buck is designed to kill. Enough said.
>>28096840
12ga (over .50cal in bore diameter) is a destructive device by ATF standards, only reason it is allowed without all the legal bullshit is because they were so popular in the hunting community.
a 12ga aint no joke, go see Edge of Darkness and see what it would legit look like in that situation. I think they strung up a sow and filmed it to make it realistic and just CGI'd her into the frames.
>>28096840
>low capacity
This matters, but depends on the context.
>slow to reload
Easier than reloading an AR, unless you have a spare mag in hand, which would be somewhat impractical when you're in your underwear at 3am and there's an intruder in the living room.
>limited range, even with slugs
This only applies if you're outside or live in the fucking Tahj Mahal.
>not as customizable
Ok...
>bulkier
Not really. 16" barrel+pistol grip. Easier to wield than any full-sized semi auto rifle.
Seems like you've taken "defensive situation" to mean "warzone firefight". It's okay if you're retarded, just try to think before you post next time.
>>28097346
Yep. Dead people can't Sue for pain and suffering after breaking into your house.
>>28096888
This. If I can't defend my house with five slugs in the mag tube, I shouldn't even be trying.
>>28096840
>cheaper
>easier to use and maintain
>legal some places where AR15s aren't
Either would be perfectly adequate for home defence, and any enthusiast probably has both.
>>28096953
Smart
>>28097346
>the waning days of 2015
>perpetuating this myth
Stop parroting the history chanel.
The 5.56 was designed to be lethal.
It is lethal.
>>28097346
Fudd...as....fuck
>>28096840
Rifles are more expensive and you have to be more careful with overpenetration, if you want capacity just get a handgun with hollow point ammunition.
>>28097383
>tube fed bullshit
>easier than reloading an AR
shut the fuck up you retard
>>28097383
>16" shot gun with a pistol grip is easier to wield than a 16" AR
god damn you're dumb as fuck
>>28096840
Why not both ?
>>28097346
> hurling pieces of metal faster than the speed of sound that can pierce any and all human tissue and bone designed for anything but killing said human.
Lolk
Are the 870s made in 1997 decent?
>>28097409
jackass...
the suit goes forward, only in the document the plaintiff's name changes to "the estate of..."
dead bodies get more money than live ones. Seriously rethink your endgame.
>>28097490
NEVA BEEN DUN BEFO
Shit it's been too long since I got to use that.
>>28097383
Ever actually shot a pistol grip shotgun? I would not suggest it unless EVERYONE in your house that has a expectation of using it can handle. Also accuracy really suffers. Use a grip/stock.
>SHTF
>run out of ammo
>realize you can shoot rocks, nails, etc with lethal effect
That's about it.
Shotguns are great. You can make your own shells out of glue and paper if you have to.
>>28097538
Actually a live one can sue for damages, such as being disabled and now having an inability to work because of it
You're always better off just killing an intruder than fucking them up
>>28096966
>>28096959
>>28096943
such samefag
>>28097433
Look at the data behind it. At the time, the US was looking for a fast intermediate cartridge that could incapacitate as many enemy units as possible.
And I never get into stopping power arguments, but Id rather have a 12ga ball of lead flying at a guy over a .22 caliber. High stress situations don't really lend themselves to pinpoint accuracy.
>>28096945
>>28096953
>>28097199
Excellent responses. Also does not trigger "It's a gun nut with fully automatic....[insert hyperbole here].
>>28097538
Hard to sue when 1) DEAD! 2) Direct result from committing a crime
Any family intruder has that can sue is also vulnerable to the same argument from the householder who killed intruder. It's called counter suit. Then householder can legitimately say harassment/emotional stress from family of intruder. After all householder did not want to to kill intruder but was afraid for his life.
I did not shoot to kill, I shot to stop the intruder from hurting me or my family.
It's a damn shotgun. The ultimate in home defense, unless you live in a fucking stadium.
>>28097587
Good luck with that case. It is legally considered to be effectively a self inflicted injury unless you have something real wrong with the circumstances. But nothing will stop a surviving intruder from trying so it is probably better they are dead for several reasons.
"I thought it was my house" has not really held up in court for instance.
>>28096840
what if house being invaded by many duck
>>28096945
Basically all of this.
>>28097713
I reload on fly, my shotgun sling has 14 rounds on it. I have a bandoleer with 36. It makes me feel like Pancho Villa but my home defense shotgun has a sling with ammo on it and I have a bandoleer with more ammo, a extra flashlight and small 9mm clipped to it hanging next to it. My plan is to reload from the bandoleer at first.
I have practiced the shoot, shove another round in, shoot technique just in case. There have been home invasions in my area with 3-5 guys.
>>28096840
why not both
>>28097876
Cuz I can only shoot one at a time? But yea SO will grab her AR, similar rig with magazine bandoleer etc.. She weighs ~130 lbs and does not like the recoil. But use what you have and try to use it well when the crunch comes.
>>28097001
The pic looks like a surbu super shorty (custom built/ordered AOW/short barreled shotgun) with the grip removed. No idea how its mounted on there though. Technically if they acquired it correctly there shouldn't be much of an issue about putting your gun on your gun
>>28096840
>limited range, even with slugs
it's not so much defensive if it's far enough to matter, also, flitecontrol wads even make buck useful way out there at 50ish
>not as customizable
so? they're fine as is for the most part. IDK what you want to do with it other than adding the basic flashlights etc...
>bulkier
it's not that bad, you using your 30" barreled bird gun or something?
>>28096943
Bill Burr please go.
>>28096840
>low capacity
6 rounds of 9 pellet buckshot = 54 projectiles. I would say the amont of firepower is similar to a SMG, because the pellets are going faster than 9mm out of a handgun. You throw more lead, but it's slower to load.
>slow to reload
Yes, but a 6 round tube and a sidesaddle should be enough for most scenarios
>limited range, even with slugs
Moot point for most scenarios. "Defensive situations" as you put it are going to happen up close. Home defense even closer. Good buckshot will pattern well out to 50 yards, slugs out to 100 will work fine.
>not as customizable
There are tons of options for 870s and 500s. You're crazy.
>bulkier
Yes. Just make it smaller if you want to.
>>28098187
>makes it shorter
>even less capacity now
>lel
>>28097413
agreed.
>>28096840
Long term survival.
Can you increase the speed of .410 bucksot?
>>28096996
Different tx anon here. We don't have to prove anything technically. We have stand your ground and castle laws so as long as they are in the house or a fenced in back yard, it is open season. Past that I like my chokeless IAC982 loaded with high velocity heavy dove, followed by no5 field and then two slugs.
>>28100292
High brass.
>>28096840
>>28096888
1. Cheaper.
2. Less likely to penetrate a wall and accidentally kill someone else.
3. As anon said, looks MUCH better to a jury than an AR or an AK. Pump-action looks like another red-blooded American, rightfully defending his life, family, and property against an intruder. The AR or AK, much more likely to get the "scary-black-tactical child-killer clipazine" treatment.
>>28100292
Winchester 000 is advertised at 1,300fps
That's fast enough. Five 68 grain projectiles in formation at 1,300fps, packing 255lb-ft each. That's like getting shot 5 times with a .380.
>>28100618
>>28096888
When it comes to court cases, wouldn't a handgun make you seem more "innocent" than a shotgun?
I remember this one study that I can't seem to find at the moment that said that when it comes to how "threatening" a weapon seems to your average, everyday citizen, the power rankings are
rifle > shotgun > pistol
The study also said that women are judged more harshly for protecting themselves with a gun than men are. Anyone have a link to it?
>>28096840
More like
>Holds more projectiles
>Can reload dynamically
>Far more likely to hit at any remotely practical range
>More versatile
>Better for melee fighting
Try again, faggot.
>>28101465
>Far more likely to hit at any remotely practical range
Are you one of those retards that think pellets scatter into a circle with a 6 foot diameter the moment it leaves the barrel? At any practical range it'll scatter 6 inches at most.
>>28096840
Because I'm going to choose the best tool for the job, which for me is a frangible ammo AR pistol with a light and relfex optic. Its controllable, light, and what I'm most proficient with. I don't give a damn what a jury thinks is "more scawy" because if I have a greater chance of living, I'm going to take it.
>>28101294
Well, the media has bombarded us with AR's, AK's, and pistols of all these shootings. Rarely have i seen a shotgun being put in such light. I guess these shooters also disregard shotguns, but it doesnt mean they dont get the job done. Sure they have limit capacity, but you can always put on a side saddle or buttstock saddle and practice that one hand tactical reloading, its actually pretty easy.
But really, other than you missing every shot or you're getting hit by a whole crew of a streetgang, most cases a shotgun will do the job AND the dumb jury and sensationalist media cant really find much to dig on the good old fashioned pump gun.
Shotgun is better for defense inside your house
AR or AK is better for home defense when you're on top of the roof and shooting the approaching dindu troupe
>>28101506
>6" vs .30"
Are you one of those retards that thinks shotguns aren't easier to use than rifles?
>>28101651
are you one of those retards that think the military uses rifles because they are inherently more complex than a shotgun?
>>28096840
>unparalleled stopping power with less over-penetration than rifles
>faster to handle and get on target
>ammo is never neckbearded
>defensive situations are always short ranged right into the shotguns strengths.
>looks good to the local DA Shaniqua Rice-Jackson
>mostly ignored by gun banners
>>28101687
>fudd lore the greentext
i hope this is ironic greentext
What about a Semi Auto 930 SPX for defense?
>>28101710
>facts
>lore
>>28097560
What are the advantages of pistol grips on shotguns?
>>28101740
The area between your thumb and index finger gets rapped from repeated slugs.
>>28096840
because 00 Buckshot
any further questions?
>>28101740
If you've got a lighter shotgun like a maverick 88 or a 500 persuader, the recoil from a hotter load can kick your thumb backwards into your nose or mouth if you're resting your cheek two far forward on a standard stock.
>>28097005
Not gonna happen inside your own house.
Because I live in a condo,
>>28096840
you can use rubber buck for the first two shells in case you're a moron who shoots at random figures in the dark without checking their identity first. Makes it much easier on your kid sneaking back in from a night out.
>>28100610
>>28100667
I need more FEET PER SECOND
>>28096888
It is a bit silly considering a shotgun is basically firing in one trigger pull a nine round burst of .33 cal when using 00 buckshot from a standard load. But somehow that is perceived as less of a legal hurdle in front of a jury than using a rifle for home defense.
>>28103922
because rifles shoot 100 clips per second, while a shotgun takes forever and only has a range of 3ft.
>>28096840
My go to for home defense is still my Mossberg 500. Yes, it's only 8 rounds as opposed to 20 in my rifle, but 8 rounds of 12 gauge is going to fuck somebody up a considerable amount more than 20 rounds of 5.56 across the distance of my living room.
>>28101554
Fair point. I guess I'm getting myself a good, non-black, wooden shotgun
>>28101822
So learn to use your weapon before relying on it for protection.
