Sup /k/, what would be the best thing to edc, for treating bullet wounds if a terrorist attack or mass shooting happens? thanks
I imagine one of those Israeli army bandages and some Quik Clot. But I have no more than a smattering of Internet learning on the subject.
>>28089738
Tampons
Not getting shot in the first place.
>>28089738
Battle tampons
>>28089766
Quick clot is brutal shit. You're only supposed to use it when a main Artery is hit and the person is going to bleed out in minutes.
>>28089738
You don't know what you'll need to patch people up, but yet somehow think you'll have the skills required to do it...
>pic related
If it's on a limb you apply a tourniquet about 3 or so inches above wound, closest to heart.
If it's in the body just apply pressure best you can, maybe attempt a full body tourniquet.
Both are simply to stabilize them so someone who knows the fuck they are doing can work on them.
>>28089890
>Quick clot is brutal shit
pls develop
>>28089934
No OR but it burns your skin. So it's only used when the situation is between suffering 2nd degree burns or dying in combat.
>>28089738
Tourniquet for limb wounds, gauze or tampons for packing everything else.
>>28089934
It starts a chemical reaction when it reacts with blood (water I think, but in our case water that's in our blood).
It basically starts a chemical reaction and begins a chemical burn. It literally chemical burns/cauterizes the wound, leaving nasty scars on people. For some smaller wounds it may do more harm than good.
We were told if we got it in our eye say goodbye to our eye, and not to fuck with it unless like I said, they will bleed out if you don't.
Source: I was a grunt who took Combat Lifesaver Course a few times. I don't pretend to know a lot, because I don't really.
>>28089999
God damnit, back when I was a btard I never got quads, now I get them on /k/ and no check ems.
Anyway furthering my advice on tourniquets, there are many ways to make them using a stick and some cloth.
But if you want one premade, the ones we used are CAT Tourniquets.
Sup /k/, medic here
Biggest things with gsw's is a catastrophic hemorrhage and/or sucking chest wounds. There is a lot of other bad shit that can happen in the abdomen area, but you won't have any clue about that shit so don't worry. The biggest thing is to stop the bleeding and protect the airways. So
Carry a couple of Israeli comp bandages, an ashmans chest seal, and a combat tourniquet. Quick clot is only used for arterial bleed where a tourniquet cant be used, like armpits, neck, etc.
>>28090166
If you really want to get technical you can also carry an npa/opa with are good (npa is better), and generally gsw victims are gunna go into hypovalemic shock so getting an IV in them is important, but dont do that shit if you aren't trained. Go do some first aid courses, they are pretty useful and good first aid as a first response will determine if the causality lives or not.
>>28089777
/k/ medic here,
Dont fucking use tampons
>>28089890
The fuck is a full body tourniquet?
Tourniquets and those chest seal things
Fucking all you need for mass cal situations
I mean really only Tourniquets, that's the most important, anything else can be fixed at the hospital
>>28089890
>>28089968
>>28089999
>Quick clot is brutal shit. You're only supposed to use it when a main Artery is hit and the person is going to bleed out in minutes.
Stop regurgitating this bullshit. Generation 1 haemostatic agents haven't been in use for years, and even then the exothermic reaction was a side effect, it was not meant to "cauterize" the wound. QuikClot, Celox, ChitoSAM etc. use clotting agents that don't put out any heat.
Besides, they're not meant for just any heavy bleeding. They're specifically meant to treat arterial bleeding where applying a TQ is not an option: groin, armpits, neck etc. Sure, you can slap them on a bleeding you think a pressure bandage won't cut by itself, but their primary purpose is to keep people from bleeding out of their groins while grunts stand around them with one CAT in each hand, trying to figure out a way to use them.
>>28090308
I dunno exactly. I did claim in a later post I don't pretend to be an expert.
Ideally the person would be conscious and could apply pressure themselves, or if they're passed out you'd have to do it and then you couldn't move them. If there's a third person they can hold for pressure.
The situation I had in mind is if its only the two of you wrapping something long enough (sweatshirt or something) around the body and wound similar to any other tourniquet, only this would need to be directly over the wound itself. Not ideal but better than nothing.
>>28090438
Well wasn't QuikClot causing burns?
Cause there's Combat Gauze now too. That's what we use anyway.
>>28090438
>Generation 1 haemostatic agents haven't been in use for years
So I guess you know what years I was in, huh?
My information may be out of date, but I spoke to the extent of my knowledge.
So suck my dick.
>>28090479
It was. Past tense. They changed the active ingredient a long time ago.
Gen 1 shit sucked a dick for a variety of reasons. Imagine trying to cram powder into a wound next to a landing helicopter. A powder that will react with the moisture in your eyes and blood-covered hands by sucking out said moisture and getting really fucking hot in the process.
>>28090502
Then the extent of your knowledge is shit, senpai. There is no excuse for not keeping your first aid related knowledge up to date.
>>28089738
>best thing for treating bullet wounds in a mass shooting
A gun. Return fire and prevent more victims, anyone who is shot with serious medical attention more than a few minutes away is -probably- already dead.
>>28090565
It is if I'm not a fucking autist.
Yeah I just wake up and randomly research if quick clot has changed their formula.
>>28090603
>It is if I'm not a fucking autist.
Okay, don't let me keep you, I bet you have some leeches to apply or bloodletting to do.
>>28090640
I said in my post I don't pretend to know a lot.
And my information is still somewhat valid. You don't know where these people are getting their supplies. There was a lot of quick clot placed in a lot of IFAKs and I'm sure some of it's circulated its way into civilian hands.
If you have such fucking extensive knowledge how about not being a dick and be more helpful. For instance you could maybe explain how to identify the new shit from the old shit by identifying the packaging/labeling. Because I know there is the old shit still floating around.
>>28090640
Furthermore, tell me exactly when the new stuff was introduced to the military please.
You know it's been almost 15 years of war and I'd wager the older stuff would be more common to happen upon.
>>28090580
>first step is TC3
>return fire
I mean
He's not wrong
>>28090460
/k/ medic: CATs are only to be used on the limbs, never on the neck, torso or head, you may laugh but if seen grunts do silly things
>>28090876
If you're gonna say /k/ medic every time just trip or namefag.
Yes that's why I called it a full body tourniquet, as in only shots to the body.
Anyway unlike Captain Autismo anything that helps provide info I won't scoff at, but yes I knew that and didn't imply otherwise.
>>28090784
>>28090841
All of the old shit is long expired by now. While expired usually means jack shit in medical equipment except that it allows the government to spend more money on getting new stuff (most of it is good years or even decades after expiry date), here it also means that it should be already out of IFAKs.
But to make things easier, newer QuikClot packages should have a little "heat free" sign on them.
But as a rule of thumb, anything manufactured after 2009 should be safe. Still, you should stay away from granule and powder clotting agents, period. The gauze/sponge ones are much more practical.
>>28090207
Dude doesn't know how to treat a gunshot wound. You assume he will be able to throw airways and chest tubes in the field. He's be better off just praying
>>28090916
DRSCABCDE
>>28090916
I also said to use a sweatshirt or cloth, not a CAT tourniquet. The only problem I see is it wouldn't be wide enough.
Like I said this would go over the wound, its just an improvised way to keep pressure on the wound if no other options.
>>28089738
Look plain and simple, go do a first aid course, then you will have a better idea of what you need, having gear isn't enough, you need the knowledge, skills, and practice, otherwise you are doing more harm than good.
>>28090966
Then its a bandage, not a tourniquet. Do you know what a tourniquet is? Not being rude just asking. Seems like you dont know what they are meant to do.
>>28090931
Im the guy you are replying too, that was helpful thank you.
Just to clarify tho, by expired you mean its completely useless? If you dumped, say quick clot circa 05 on a wound nothing would happen?
>>28091000
A namefag is born.
Yeah you're right. Well I was a grunt so I'm automatically lolretarded. Actually I was just thinking of a way people could improvise holding pressure down on a wound. But yeah my terminology is off.
>>28091007
It would still have its desired effect most likely. But the point is that it's much less safe than current clotting agents.
>>28090221
>another medic
>saying not to use tampons
Why senpai?
>>28091007
>Just to clarify tho, by expired you mean its completely useless
No, as I was saying, it's mostly a way to make more money (making every single user rotate their stock every couple of years) and also a liability insurance.
If the package is undamaged and it hasn't been stored under really extreme conditions, it would most likely work perfectly fine. Maybe lose a percent or two of effectiveness, but that would be it.
If the package is damaged, you're shit out of luck. Moisture will kill these things dead fast.
>>28091050
All g,
So yeah if trying to put pressure on a wound only use a bandage/improvised bandage (the Israeli comp bandage are epic).
If arterial bleed is present (i.e. femoral in the leg) use a CAT high n tight ABOVE the injury to cut off the blood supply to said limb so he dosn't bleed out. You can bleed out and die from the femoral artery in 3-5 mins and in some cases less.
>>28089738
A cellphone to call people who have a big white van that can get the person afflicted to a hospital where healthcare professionals can tend to their injuries.
I aint touching someone else's nasty ass blood and fluids and shit.
>>28091061
Same guy, just didnt name fag on that post.
Ever heard the expression right tool for the job? From iraqi and afgan combat medic has imporved greatly, and weve updated and created new tools to treat a casualty, so there is no reason to go all retarded and use other things. Just pack the wound with quickclot gauze, or normal guaze then comp bandage around it
>>28091107
What if I already got the bug? I can't get aids twice ;)
>>28091107
This,
Remember you are only stabilizing them, you cant fix them, send for help straight away. And wear gloves.
>>28091129
>he doesn't know about SUPER AIDS
>>28091127
Plus its about accountability, something goes wrong and you used expired items or unissued items you are fucked
>>28091170
>something goes wrong and you used expired items or unissued items you are fucked
Not really, no.
Tampons, super glue and some staples maybe. Is this a pocket/purse thing or are you going all out
>>28091170
>accountability
Hospital medic detected
>>28091077
Shit that's what I mean, old stuff could be circulating, people selling it on EBay and shit.
I have half a mind to dump out my old sea bag to see if I still have mine.
>>28091127
How about for the average /k/ user who doesn't have money to dump on quickclot? Seriously, the better use of their money would be a tourniquet, and at least then they wouldn't be fucked in surgery even longer by the gooey shit that combat gauze becomes that civilian surgeons aren't likely familiar with.
Tampon will work for a short term and are easily obtainable by the general public.
>>28091210
If you think so,
But a few of my buddies went cowboy by using random shit and got discharged, whatever you might think the army a cunt and they wont stand with you. If its a m8 do what you gotta do to save their life but bear the consequences in mind.
Question: how many guys in here know how to use/apply a tampon?
It's not rocket science but I'd wager the people who don't know how put pressure on a wound probably don't know how to operate a tampon
>>28091243
Like i said in a earlier post,
1 CAT
2 Israeli bandages
1 roll of gauze
Tape
And a ashmans chest seal.
But the biggest thing is TRAINING. I can tell you about all this gear but if dont know how it works and whats its for then its pointless.
Anyway check out this site if interest
https://www.tacmedsolutions.com/
>>28089738
Medical training.
But since you are most likely asking about item, tourniquet, I prefer the rats tq, quick clot combat gauze or celox rapid guaze, small pressure dressing, I like the dynastopper for an EDC kit, tensionpneumothorax needle, and nitrile or latex GLOVES, you don't want catch the AIDS. I actually carry all this stuff daily, in a ricci ankle medical kit.
Although I've been eyeing the rogue gunfighter one, but I've heard they never ship shit, really waiting on the one US palm is coming out with.
>>28091245
Story time? I had a wide discretionary berth when treating casualties. What did they do to get discharged? No need to name units, I'm actually curious now
>>28091275
And these:
https://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.itstactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/6261133134_59c89b7300_o.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.itstactical.com/medcom/medical/why-israeli-bandages-are-like-pepperidge-farm-bread/&h=480&w=700&tbnid=vPwXMp9Uify8ZM:&docid=_DXPlhxMreiDBM&ei=_zpiVqy1LMaq0gS564XoAQ&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwjssIKGxsPJAhVGlZQKHbl1AR0QMwgcKAAwAA
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=israeli+bandages&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjjpp3xxcPJAhVBn5QKHSIqDZkQ_AUIBygB&biw=1920&bih=971#imgrc=kw321WqRwuDMqM%3A
>>28091245
Story time? I had a wide discretionary berth when treating casualties? What did they fuck up bad enough to get discharged?
>>28091275
>ashmans chest seal
These are total dildoes. Get a HYFIN.
Or if you're a massive poorfag, just get petrolatum gauze.
>>28091267
>Question: how many guys in here know how to use/apply a tampon?
Put it in a bloody pussy?
>>28090640
kek
this was such a good burn
not the quick clot kind
>>28091308
Originally the quik clot we used had shellfish in it, which was causing analphalixs in some dudes so it got binned. Few year later guy didnt check an issued kit for expires/out of date items, needed to use quickclot on a guy who was allergic to shellfish (didnt know at the time) , and was out of Adrenalin. The guy nearly died, and the medic was discharged.
>>28091345
Sorry meant SAM chest seal, your're right stay the fuck away from ashmans, for some reason the name was stuck in my head.
Sam chest seals are the way to go, those fuckers will stick to anything.
>>28091362
Are you a Brit? You said "binned". Sorry to hear about your friend, though every medic nurse and soccer mom should have an epi pen
>>28091384
Ashman/Bolin used to be big and it's the name that comes to every CLS/medic's head when they think about occlusive dressing.
After people found out they fall right the fuck off if you get sweaty and the vents are nearly useless, people moved on to fully occlusive seals, but we still remember the damn names.
>>28091362
Bear in mind this was in the military, you do that in civvie land, then shit gets worse, legal action, jail time, etc. So just make sure you follow training and try to cover your ass a little, cause no one else will.
>>28091408
Want to be a little bit anon so I wont say where im from, and we weren't near a soccer field so no epi pens
>>28089766
>phil
>promoting memeclot
Yup, /k/ as usual
>>28089738
Look guys the biggest thing I can't stress enough is training.
Go do a first aid course, cause people are always getting hurt, whether a shooting accident, motor vehicle accident, or even a broken limb.
Knowing how to treat injuries can save the life of you, your family and mates, or some stranger. So its an important skill set to have, plus is just safety and common sense, being hunters and gun owners you guys should all have first aid quals just in case something happens at the range or in the middle of no where, and paramedics take hours to get to you, if you cant treat wounds then you may watch your mate die, and thats not a good feeling to have when you could have learn something properly that could have saved him.
>>28091438
So a colonist/Brit was working somewhere around 2001-2007 as a and had to manually inject adrenalin, but didn't have any on hand. also doesn't want to mention which colony he's from?
Now I'm super curious
>>28091552
Or even worse you tried to help and you make it worse killing him, or giving him a disability for the rest of his life cause of your mistake.
>>28091569
Anyway, i've given enough advice,
Go get some TRAINING
and then all you pretty much need is
2 Israli bandages
1 CAT
1 roll of gauze
SAM seal
Tape
and a marker pen (if you apply a CAT write time applied of somewhere obvious like their head, this is important)
There isnt much else im going to be repeating myself,
Peace out and be safe
I wear a belt everyday even though my pants fit and i dont carry just so i can use it for a tourniquet. I also keep a thin upholstery needle in ny wallet, in case i need stitched.
If your going to carry one thing, carry this. It can be a pressure dressing or a tourniquet depending on how tight you pull it.
>>28091613
New to thread but thanks. Anywhere specific any type specific training you'd recommend to a civvie?
