Would this have won WW2 for the Nazi's if enough of them had got off the ground and managed to see combat?
no.
unless you mean 20,000 of them.
in which case, yes, it might've helped. but then 20,000 ME262s, or even 20,000 FW190s would've helped just as much.
>>28087458
The only way for Hitler to win would have been to convince America to side with him.
>>28087489
Which was pretty close to happening out west I've heard.
After all pre war we were giving the nazis fuel right?
If they had tens of thousands and the logistics to build, fuel, and supply them. Then yes.
Because that means they'd be able to supply the rest of their military that would actually make a difference.
>>28087502
why didn't hitler just promise all scientific secrets to america and let them roll through europe?
>>28087458
no
hitler was screwed when the US joined in.
>>28087475
>>28087509
Ah I see, so the technological edge wouldn't have made a difference even in smaller numbers?
I've been reading about the technology the Nazi's were experimenting with in the last days of the war and it surprises me just how far ahead they were. I mean for 1944 that plane is really something.
>>28087502
No, the U.S. was supplying Japan with oil shortly before the pearl harbor attack
>>28087458
No one technology save for perhaps the atomic bomb would have won the war for the nazis. It's really that simple. They didn't lose because of one reason which could have been amended by better technology.
>>28087502
Many Americans in 1930-40s would have agreed with Hitler's racial views. American doctors were pioneers of eugenics who openly advocated sterilizing criminals to prevent them from passing on their genetics. The Nazis were actually very successful in recruiting people in U.S. before the war.
Pearl Harbor changed everything.
>>28087564
Britain had its Nazi supporters as well.
>>28087551
They detonated one 10 months before we did over the baltic sea. Recently declassified USAF documents attest to this fact. Look into what Ronald Richter was doing if you really want to go down the rabbit hole in terms of what Germany was up to.
![0708021_1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/HF9nLNe.jpg "0708021_1[1].jpg")
What the Germans needed was tens of thousands of these.
>>28087543
Nope. Wonder weapons don't mean jack if you can't supply the bread and diesel that your actual military force runs on.
The atomic bomb wouldn't have ended the war in the Pacific if the US couldn't bring about enough man and ship power to establish an airbase on the nearby islands.
Logistics win wars. In fact, there's no war without logistics. Someone's gotta show up to fight in the first place.
>>28087583
this.
>>28087580
The Imperial Japanese Army supposedly detonated an atomic bomb off the coast of korea during the war.
We'll never know because the Soviets looted everything in korea.
>>28087598
Well the only reason we could bomb the Japanese in August and not November is because we got some fissile material from Germany as well.
>>28087598
Source?
>>28087525
Wouldn't have worked. The US wasn't that far behind in anything but large rockets, and would be confident it could make up the gap. Nazis tech edge is kinda overstated, the US was just as advanced but had different priorities.
>>28087594
Fucking Germans were still mostly dependent on rail and horse cart for logistics. Up to half their rail rolling stock was occupied killing jews.
This fucking thread again.
>If superweapon X had been made would Hitler have won WW2?
No.
>>28087543
>I've been reading about the technology the Nazi's were experimenting with in the last days of the war and it surprises me just how far ahead they were. I mean for 1944 that plane is really something.
The stuff that America was "experimenting" within the last days of the war was pretty hardcore as well. Hitler was obsessed with trying to find a "Wonder Weapon" that could win the war by itself. Some sort of advanced jet fighter that could slaughter whole bomber formations or a super heavy tank that could stop armies from advancing all by itself. Perhaps if he'd paid a little more attention to Einstein, he would have found his superweapon.
>>28087616
Some documentary I can not remember the name of.
the IJA did have their own atomic weapons program in korea during the war. korea and Manchukuo have viable uranium deposits.
a war journalist attached to the US army was in korea right after the war. As they were reloacting the japanese back to japan. he interviewed an IJA officer. Who claims to have witnessed an explosion off the coast that was like a sun.
>>28087643
Actually their method of sublimation to produce fissile material was better than what the US developed. The scientist responsible for that advancement was taken by the USSR and is the only non Russian to have won the Stalin Award in science. They also worked on certain fields of physics that the general public has almost no knowledge of today, Gabriel Kron talked a lot about things that would have had bearing on the what the Germans were doing.
>>28087643
Bong Commandos really fucked up Germany's nuclear research programs. when they destroyed all the heavy water production in Norway.
>>28087665
That didnt matter, they had a cyclotron underneath Berlin that the USSR took.
>>28087618
Exactly. It's a kind of a wonder they got as far as they did.
Good thing Nazis are retarded or else the war could have been a lot longer.
>>28087458
Why thinking about such overcomplicated shit
All they need was producing en masse STG 44
Which they didn't because uncle Adolf thought them to be "too expansive for the service they provided". Imagine, Your army still mainly utilizes bolt-actions, and you're facing another army with automatic guns.
What does the number of soldiers mean, when you can fire at 600 rpm?
>>28087665
The raid on the heavy water plant was amazing, I have major respect for those guys.
>>28087701
Sounds interesting. Any source so I can look it up?
![Automatgevär_m1943_-_Tyskland_-_AM.045876[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/y4a9rin.jpg "Automatgevär_m1943_-_Tyskland_-_AM.045876[1].jpg")
>>28087698
This of the FG42 would have been acceptable too.
>>28087698
Bro. Small arms make little to no difference in the big picture as long as they reasonably sling lead.
Thinking Germany lost because they had a bolt-action rifle is tip-top tier retarded.
>>28087665
To be fair Germany considered it "jew science" so it never got that far to began with, but the raid basically eliminate any chance of the program ever reaching fruition.
>>28087724
No they didnt, they got father than anyone else and faster too. They had even had fusion.
>>28087733
You dont know what you are talking about.
>>28087720
The few Stg44s that did get fielded were reported as making a huge difference in firefights, by both the germans and russians.
Russians started fielding entire units with just PPsh41/43s.
>>28087720
Why do you say that, bro? It's true that soviets widely used their cheap tanks to win, but honestly, in urban warfare, having your soldiers having automatic weapons can greatly make a difference. Especially, if you're facing an enemy whose main strength point is number. Isn't it right?
Not saying they lost because of this missed opportunity, I mean: delcaring war at the same time against the first AND the second greatest powerhouses in the world is a suicide per se. But having automatic guns surely could have helped, I think.
>>28087564
>Pearl Harbor changed everything.
misconception. Polling from Gallup showed the US public were strongly anti-German from the outbreak of war
>>28087736
Actually I do, they devopled and tested a bomb 10 months before the US did, they had a working cyclotron underneath Berlin, and successfully figured out how fusion works and even accounted for energy gating in their equations, something that the US didnt figure out until 1954.
>>28087737
In firefights, yeah, probably. But infantry engagements don't win wars, on a strategic level those firefights meant nothing.
>>28087712
>>28087712
tv show was made a year ago, "War on heavy water". Look it up, mini series, 5 or 6 eps iirc. Good shit.
>>28087753
No, seriously you are retarded. The Nazis were never close to the bomb, and anyone with an iq above 12 knows that.
>>28087737
That still wouldn't change the outcome of the war. The Russians could supply their units with the weapons and ammunition. Germany couldn't.
>>28087741
Those cheap tanks could be made in large enough number to make it feasible.
The Russians also had the railroads to get them where they needed to be, the fuel to run them, and the ammunition to arm them. The Germans were abandoning empty tanks by the end of the war because they couldn't supply them.
You're both thinking way too small. Holy shit.
>>28087737
>Russians started fielding entire units with just PPsh41/43s.
Sub machine gun platoons and companies existed prior to the German invasion, and battalions from may 1942.
>>28087543
>technological edge
What technological edge would the Horten Ho 229 have given them? No advantage it gave wouldn't have been matched/overtaken by the allies in response.
Its like people forget that people other than the Luftwaffe had jets (with better engines too).
>>28087774
I know man, but shit, railway stations are inside cities. Ammo plants are in cities. HQs are in cities. Comms are in cities. That's how russian had a succesful revolution in the first place: they captured the cities. If you had a whole division of angry germans storming into buildings shooting with an average rate of 575 rpm, no defenders could be match against them.
What good make a trillion of fully supplied T34, if they remain in their depots?
>>28087525
>promise scientific secrets
What scientific secrets?
Hell, they got all the useful shit they could out of the Germans anyway.
>>28087753
Nicely baited son.
>>28087737
>winning firefights would have mattered when your cities and factories were being reduced to rubble, you had no fuel and no hope
Guess again.
>>28087643
>>28087661
>>28087665
A big part of what held Germany's nuclear research back was their reliance on heavy water for reactors. We used graphite, which was a lot easier to deal with, but the Germans couldn't get it to work, so they went with heavy water. They gave up on graphite and decided it wasn't a practical solution, while the Americans figured out that it was impurities in commercial graphite that caused the problems, and had custom-made high-purity blocks made.
The reactors we used to produce fissile material were shockingly simple devices, actually, just a huge graphite block with tubes through it, and they'd just push capsules of uranium through it.
>>28087810
Well they were experimenting with stealth. The end product would have been the first ever stealth bomber/fighter.
They made a replica of it a few years back and tested the stealth, it would have been detected but too late for defenses to retaliate. So it would have been effective.
>>28087814
>in cities
Yes, German cities, which were being leveled by the RAF and USAAF.
To be fair though, you appear to be retarded/12/baiting so I think we'll leave this here and agree that you're an idiot.
>>28087814
>If you had a whole division of angry germans storming into buildings shooting with an average rate of 575 rpm, no defenders could be match against them.
Doesn't matter if they were armed with Fallout-style plasma rifles while the Russians only had slingshots if the Germans can't get a ride to the city in the first place.
They'd be at a disadvantage anyways because they wouldn't have ammunition or supporting artillery.
The best rifle in the world doesn't mean shit if you can't supply it and get it where it needs to be.
STGs for all the Germans couldn't change the outcome of the war if all else was the same.
>>28087543
Don't listen to that retard or any of the retards responding. What you are asking is if the Nazis had enough time to field say 20,000~ of these planes, which are jets, where fielding them means being able to supply them, equip them, staff them, etc. then it goes without saying that of course they would have been given an edge. Air superiority would have meant alot for Germany.
The people in this thread that are mouthing their poor little heads off about guns and butter doctrine have no idea that the main reason that Germany was not able to supply their armies was due to their factories being bombed, which air superiority would have prevented.
If this weapon would have come about in the years of 1942 or 1943 and Germany being able to field 10,000-20,000 of them it is an obvious enough statement that Germany likely would have had enough time to supply its armies for a few more years. Although this does not necessarily mean that the war would have ended much later or any later at all. Hitler was already showing signs of insanity and that was really what destroyed Germany, moreso than any singular Allied operation, it was the supreme operational failure of Germany's political leadership that ensured its destruction as a functioning state and therefore its solvency to fight a war, which is the continuation of politics by other means anyway.
>>28087475
20000 Fw 190s would have done nothing. The Luftwaffe had thousands of them that couldn't get off the ground because no 100LL.
Jets (such as the 262) were great against bombers and their fighter escorts, but were somewhat lacking in CAS because of limited endurance and high stall speed.
If the Nazis had the 262 earlier, say 1943, and focused production on it, there is a decent chance they could have maintained air superiority on the Eastern Front, preventing the Soviet winter offensive from advancing too far. Actually establishing defensive positions and issuing winter equipment would have helped with this too.
A Luftwaffe well equipped with jet fighters would make any Allied landing in Western Europe very difficult, as they could not have counted on air superiority, and conventional aircraft like Stukas and Ju 88s would have had open shots at the landing craft and troops.
That said, the only way this could help is by placing Germany in a better position to establish a truce with the Allies. They needed time to consolidate their gains, and begin integrating captured territory (especially France) into the Reich culture.
>>28087851
>they were experimenting with stealth
No they weren't. The guy who built it claimed in the 80's that one of the un-built prototypes was supposed to have charcoal to lessen it visibilty to radar.
>it would have been detected but too late for defenses to retaliate
It would have been visible at a distance 80% that of a Bf109. Enough time to scramble fighters.
Not that that even matters since getting your there'd be exactly zero chance of you doing enything war winning/war changing/moderately noticeable/at all noticeable with a few Horten Ho's carrying a half ton of bombs.
>>28087564
>Many Americans in 1930-40s would have agreed with Hitler's racial views
But not many in power, and extremely few that would have appreciated the Holocaust. We were perfectly happy to accept all the brilliant Jewish minds that emigrated out of Germany.
>American doctors were pioneers of eugenics who openly advocated sterilizing criminals to prevent them from passing on their genetics
A true statement.
>The Nazis were actually very successful in recruiting people in U.S. before the war.
If you mean actual military service, then that was mainly ethnic Germans looking to serve their country. Otherwise the few incarnations of the American Nazi party saw only paltry success, with virtually all the leaders ending up incompetent or corrupt douchebags in prison.
>>28087877
Why do you constantly come into each of these threads only to bring up the case of supply? Do you not think that when asking the hypothetical, "What if X had Y in such a way that they could employ it", that they would not have the ammunition and supplies capable to do so at least for a time? Why must you feel the need to overstate the importance of supply and ammunition? Are you stuck on this? Was this a great revelation to you at one point that you now feel important to force on every hypothetical?
>>28087897
Wouldn't the Me-262's crappy engines have been a bit of a problem in that little theory?
Going out on a limb here (feel free to tear me a new one) but wouldn't the cold have an adverse effect?
Your idea also assumes that the allies don't bother fielding jets, which they'd be able to do in greater numbers than the Germans (eventually).
The problem was never Germany's technology, it was always a leadership issue, mainly Hitler not allowing his generals to do their jobs properly and thats what costed them the war.
>>28087916
Not the guy you're talking to, but its because its the truth. Germans didn't have the logistics or the production for a long, protracted war and they knew it.
That was the entire point of Blitzkrieg, a quick, decisive war that wouldn't involve getting bogged down.
It's a hypothetical thread and he's just pointing out that even if they hypothetically had Horten Ho's it wouldn't have mattered at all.
Unless you think hypothetical threads should actually just be 'made up bollocks I saw playing Wolfenstein' threads.
Also
>overstae the importance of supply and ammuniton
>overstate
>supply
Are you high?
>>28087943
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Foxley
>>28087916
>why do you come in here and post facts!?!?!
This is my first time in one of these threads in many months, you're probably confusing me with a half dozen other posters.
OP doesn't mention anything else besides the planes in his narrowly-worded hypothetical, so why would you assume there's anything else?
>>28087961
Also this.
>>28087961
woops
*overstate
>>28087983
Not to say that it isn't a fact, nor was that my point, but rather what I was trying to illustrate was that when he said;
>if enough of them had got off the ground and managed to see combat?
>managed to see combat
It seemed to me like it was very easily implied that these planes were supplied enough to conduct operations. Then the number 20,000 was brought up by another poster, and that seemed to be the accepted scenario from then on. So why wouldn't the Luftwaffe NOT have enough supplies if they are fielding 20,000 of these planes and sending them on combat missions? If that is our given, then I am confused when the supply meme is brought up out of nowhere.
>>28087961
please stop regurgitating the same thing over and over i am starting to get a literal headache
>>28087458
Nope, not at all. The flying wing is a notoriously hard to control design. Sophisticated computer systems such as those on the B-2 Spirit are what make the design usable. In my opinion the Me 262 could've made a significant difference had it been invented earlier in the war when there was an ample supply of high quality metal, fuel, and pilots. Germany would've been able to stop the bombings to a degree and kept factories and morale up. Also, if the Germans had made a successful craft that could cross the Atlantic with a few thousand Kg of bombs, well things might've turned out a little different.
Then again this is all pure conjecture, Germany had many opportunities to change the direction of the war but didn't.
>>28088036
But it's not implied. He just said they had to see combat.
A zerg rush of 20,000 planes with just enough fuel to get up in the air and over the channel to fire a shot in anger is much different than 20,000 planes running constant there-and-back sorties with complete rearm and refuel support.
But both scenarios still meet OP's poorly-worded criteria.
>supply meme
Calling it a meme doesn't change it's validity. No matter how much you'd like to think otherwise.
>>28088036
>please stop regurgitating the same thing over and over i am starting to get a literal headache
Well don't bitch about people shooting down a hypothetical using the truth then, sorry if it brings a negative aura to your safe space kid.
>supply meme
This is the level of intelligence we're dealing with people.
>>28088178
>>28088134
Is it me or has the general intelligence of /k/ degraded over the last several years?
>>28088200
Its better, if anything.
>>28088200
Definitely. I cannot believe we've got to the point where people on here think the importance of supply to the outcome of World War Two is actually a meme. It's beyond belief.
>>28088215
HAH! No. It's been degrading for years. day/k/are, noguns, weebs, stray /pol/tards and idiots unable to even read a book on the thread's subject before spreading their asscheeks to shitpost fucking everywhere.
>>28087580
>>28087603
>>28087598
>[citation] :^)
Kinda runs contrary to how Germany on one hand by 1945 didn't even progress past Hard Water, and how Japan on the other invested in fucking Balloons to deploy plague in San Francisco.
B
>>28088134
>But it's not implied. He just said they had to see combat.
I'll stop you right there, is 'combat' or 'seeing combat' not enough of a vague term to say that they were seeing operations and therefore could be supplied for operations?
To you and the other fellow, 'meme' is not a insult nor used in the case you likely think it is. Meme is a recurring theme and it is nothing more than that. And I will go ahead and take it a step further to say that in nearly EVERY discussion /k/ has about hypotheticals, be it WW2 or what have you, the same band of hooligans comes in shouting, "SUPPPLIES SUPPLIES SUPPLIES" as if supply and logistics were all that mattered --or even something that could be argued. Unless you are prepared to sit down and argue about logistics as if it even had different schools of thought or if it was as complex as something as say elastic or static defense, then I would advise you to stay on /v/ or somewhere else where you shallow interpretations of strategy are welcomed and even worshiped.
I am tired of the supply meme killing conversations. You could be this guy; >>28088089 who is adequately addressing the concerns of introducing a prototype plane en masse, but before you even do that, you go directly for MUH SUPPLIES and I swear if it isn't the last thing I'll say that term has become such a cancer that it is no longer taken as a given that when you have an army or a force that is fighting that it is not supplied enough already to do the fighting otherwise it would not be fighting in the same way that when a creature is alive and breathing that it has not already consumed enough calories to be breathing and alive.
>>28087765
>>28087712
ray mears does a documentary on it called "the heroes of telemark". he goes with some current day military vets through what the actual soldiers did back in the day.
it was a long ass trek of cross country skiing and extreme winter survival.
the actual mission was an extremely small part of the overall deployment of the unit.
>>28088224
>the importance of supply to the outcome of World War Two
supply has nothing to do with World War Two, supply is a part of military operations, you are bringing a small section of history to dominance over what is an essential part of military theory
>>28087545
The US had strongly restricted trade with the empire of japan years before pearl harbor, is this bait?
>>28088251
Right, ok sport.
First off, the thread title is 'would this have won ww2 for the nazis'.
We answered his question. No.
Then someone went on to say what if they had Stg's? What if they had Me 262's years earlier?
Its still no.
>the same band of hooligans comes in shouting, "SUPPPLIES SUPPLIES SUPPLIES" as if supply and logistics were all that mattered
There was nothing at all 'hooligan' about it. Supply and logistics weren't ALL that mattered, but they were the most important thing, since EVERY other aspect is affected by them, you simply cant have a thread of this nature without it boiling down to 'no supplies', especially when EVEN THE GERMANS KNEW THAT IT BOILED DOWN TO LOGISTICS. Hence the entire Blitzkrieg business and not wanting a war on two fronts.
If you want a thread about World War Two era Luftwaffe jet aircraft and whether or not they would be effective then start a new thread and name 'World War Two German Jet Aircraft: compare and discuss' or something like that.
But if OP is going to start another 'hurrr could this wunderwaffen have won the war durrr thread' then we're just going to shoot it down with a resounding 'no, they were outgunned, outnumbered and outproduced'.
Anyway, want to throw all that supply stuff out the window? Ignore it? Fine. They'd still have lost when the US glassed Berlin. You happy now champ?
>>28088318
>The US had strongly restricted trade
>strongly restricted
Does not necessarily mean that they ceased supplying oil. I am not him, but without even looking at Wikipedia I can tell you the probable answer.
>>28088298
Supply, manufacturing, industrial capacity, whatever.
Either way Germany didn't have as much and didn't utilise it all until it was too late.
>also supply has nothing to do with world war two
>supply is a part of military operations
>its a small section of history
>Germany using horses and carts was insignificant
Right.
>>28087458
a lot of these late war innovations came about out of desperation. The Germans were attempting to engineer themselves out of a loss. By that point the war was a forgone conclusion.
The answer to all these "would this thing have helped the nazi's win the war" is almost always No. Maybe a working nuclear weapons program might have helped, but I'm still not sure even then.
>>28088329
>We answered his question. No.
And nowhere did I disagree!
>There was nothing at all 'hooligan' about it. Supply and logistics weren't ALL that mattered, but they were the most important thing, since EVERY other aspect is affected by them,
Right! So, if you cannot have operations without supplies, why even bring up the case of Germany not having supplies to conduct operations with these planes, when the premise is that they would be conducting operations with said planes enough to be effective?
Maybe I could illustrate this for you, because the main thing I want to do is to try and help you along because I am seeing more and more discussions get stalled in the supply conundrum, and it's strange, because we do agree about supplies being absolutely necessary to conduct operations, but for some reason you think that these planes can operate without supplies and then feel it pertinent to say, "Well, we need supplies to operate these planes first", as if this was not already a given.
The main thing I want to impart upon you is that in ANY scenario, regardless of whether it be in WW2 or WW1 or the Franco-Prussian war or the Boer War or what have you, everything done in the military theory spectrum (which is precisely where we are), when you say that X is conducting operations, then it is a given that X has enough supplies to conduct said operations.
Therefore, you cannot bring the argument forth that X has no supplies to conduct said operations when the given is that X is conducting operations.
Do you understand what I am trying to get across? Because I am not disagreeing with you on any other points so far.
>>28087889
>Hitler was showing signs of insanity
Yeah no. If you compare his level of retardation in the beginning of the war to that during 1942-44, he actually got significantly better (although still insisted on offense at all costs). Being kept in a bubble by Bormann and Goering didn't help either given his tendency to put on blinders to anything negative.
>>28087753
This is a complete myth that wehraboos keep claiming. Wehraboos are probably why this shit thread was started in the first place
>>28088298
>supply has nothing to do with World War Two
>supply has nothing to do with World War
>supply has nothing to do with War
listen to yourself kid, you are plain fucking stupid
>>28088404
>I am seeing more and more discussions get stalled in the supply conundrum
Because that's what it actually boils down to, honestly.
If Germany has the logistics+supply to run these things. Then they would have conceivably enough to run the rest of their war machine and potentially win. But would they win just because of the planes? Extremely unlikely.
Assuming they have the ability to operate at full capacity when the scenario doesn't say either way seems a bit presumptive.
Pretty much the OP was just a stupid, vaguely-worded argument starter with way too many variables to have a definite answer.
FUCK YOU, OP.
>>28088521
the original quotation and the one that you butchered it down are different, one is a concept and the other is a specific event
>>28088298
>supply has nothing to do with World War Two
There it is. The most retarded thing I will read this year.
>>28088537
>>28088298
>>28088251
You start a thread with a stupid question and get angry when you get an answer you dont like. Then start throwing out crazy hypotheticals when people tell you to fuck off.
These threads have always been a thinly veiled attempt by wehraboos to circlejerk over late war nazi tech. When they fail to realize that these programs were done out of desperation, and ultimately these programs drew a massive amount of resources and were financial nightmares.
>>28088537
The idea that supply has nothing to do with ANY war ever fought, much less WWII, is absolutely laughable.
>>28088404
>why even bring up the case of Germany not having supplies to conduct operations with these planes, when the premise is that they would be conducting operations with said planes enough to be effective?
Its because even if they had the supplies to effectively deploy Me-262's they'd still have lost when the allies bothered to crank out Jet aircraft of their own, in much greater numbers.
I understand that you think any discussion about whether World War Two could have been won by the Nazis can actually avoid the subject of logistics, supply, manufacturing etc It can't.
>>28088537
Just.
Stop.
>>28088532
This too.
>>28088650
>muh small arms
>muh jets
>muh wunderwaffen
>muh if's
>>28087753
>All these "facts"
>No sources
Oh child, please.
>>28088335
The US was actually threatening to cut off the oil supply entirely if Japan didn't back off from their war in China (I don't remember the exact terms, but what matters is that the Japanese high commmand didn't like them)
Japan needed that oil to continue fighting, and there was a lot of oil in the Philippines (held by USA at the time).
So, pearl harbor was planned as a preemptive strike to destroy us capability to respond when Japan seized the Philippines.
The admiral the japanese put in charge of planning was not optimistic about the outcome of the war. He gave the US six months after the strike before the war turned around and Japan started losing.
There are a number of documentaries about the whole thing if you're interested.
>>28087458
This required an expert pilot at a time when the average german pilot was being feed to the meat grinder with less and less training
Everyone here is sayng weapons only matter if you have the logistics to supply them.
Therefore, would Germany have won the war if they weren't bothering with the holocaust, and were using the men and suppplies somewhere more important?
>>28088955
No. Germany was fucked from the get go. They alienated major scientific, military, and economic figures with Nazi policy, so right from the start they handicapped themselves. They didn't put women to work in the factories until it was too late. They used slave labor because they couldn't keep a real economy going for all their labor needs. Nazism was full German supremacy, but wasn't inclusive to other Europeans. Then there's the trainwreck of German strategic planning that often failed to accomplish the goals they set out for themselves, such as in the invasion of Greece. Germany was also riddled with spies who passed intel to the West and Russians.
>>28087712
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwbiRrVAJzw
>>28088997
Makes sense. So a Germany that could win the war would be far different than anything that was likely to emerge from the mess that was post WWI germany
>>28087617
No. Germany has remarkable technological advances. Vacuum tube size, gimballing, fucking NIGHT VISION...
>>28089041
A Germany that could win the war wouldn't be stupid enough to start it in the first place.
>>28087502
No. America had stronger economic and cultural ties to England than it did with Germany. American interests in the UK and France, as well as with the British Empire, naturally made the USA more likely to aid the Allies.
No.
The only thing that could have won ww2 for the nazi was never having an eastern front. And never siding with the japs aganst Burger
>>28088955
Best they could have hoped for was taling Europe, leaving Russia alone, starving Britain out.
Do not involve Russia and America. Do not ally with Japan.
Sit pretty fucking French whores and frollicking in your perfectly good and pretty damn roomy lebensraum.
Whether or not that was possible is a different matter.
>>28089052
>vacuum tube size
>gimballing
>night vision
None of which was that deadly or useful. Big rockets were (gimballiny probably falls under rockets).
b) The first practical night vision devices were invented in America (for civilians, but still)
>>28089068
I disagree.
Culturally we had strong ties to both germany and england.
Ww1 had soured us on taking part in "Europe's problems"
Most of america would have been just happy to be left alone.
We had a vested intrest in England's Emipre collapsing.
Sure parts of the usa ( north eastern elites) wanted to side with england and france, but out of financial reasons. Less so for political ones.
Had it not been for pearl. America would have sat on the sides, and brokered the peace.
>>28089194
We had a vested interest in the global economy not shooting itself in the head. The British Empire falling apart would open up regions for American influence, but also sour too much potential capital at the tail end of the global depression.
>>28088298
Seriously, the only reason why germany lost was because they couldn't keep their army and air force supplied with enough fuel and parts towards the end of the war.
That said, the Russians were getting their shit pushed in until they had their supply lines secured with American trucks. Once they had the supplies getting to the troops they were able to push back hard.
Really, that is all war is. A fight to see whose supply system breaks first.
>>28087543
Whats the point of winning a war with edgy tech if they cant even get fuel supply to power the damn things. If the nazis invented synthetic fuel then maybe i would be impressed.
>>28088251
>>28088918
Fuel was already cut before Pearl Harbor. The US embargoed Japan after Japan took over French Indochina (Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos) after fall of France. In July 41 the embargo was expanded to include oil.
By Pearl Harbor, the IJN was running on less than 6 months of fuel reserves. Waiting longer would mean not having the oil to attack at all. The primary objective was thus the oil fields in the Dutch East Indies.
>>28087643
>>28087661
>>28087665
>>28087849
The Germans would have never used nuclear weapons because they are indiscriminate. They kill civilians.
>>28090437
You mean like the V1, V2?
Nobody in this entire fucking thread mentioning Jackie Northrop.
YB-35 and YB-49 were about ten times bigger than this piece of German balsa wood crap, and they were still impossible to control, which is why nobody did flying wings back then.
And this Horton shit never even got off the ground. A meager 10 tons total flying weight. No real armament. That never even flew. Once. Fuck off.
Y'all people posting in this bitch really are a bunch of European wehraboos, right?
>>28090772
>Never flew
But it did fly.
Granted, not a lot, but it did.
>>28090772
The H.IX V2 reportedly displayed very good handling qualities, with only moderate lateral instability (a typical deficiency of tailless aircraft). While the second flight was equally successful, the undercarriage was damaged by a heavy landing caused by Ziller deploying the brake parachute too early during his landing approach. There are reports that during one of these test flights, the H.IX V2 undertook a simulated "dog-fight" with a Messerschmitt Me 262, the first operational jet fighter, and that the H.IX V2 outperformed the Me 262.
>>28090772
hypothetically it could have carried up to 2 tons of bombs and a full tank. the 262 could only carry 500kg on hardpoints
It's all about the bell-shaped lift distribution curve, which the horten bothers understuud, somewhat.
Here's the deal. A chevron flying wing can be uber-stable, but at the cost of efficiency. If you relax the reflex (say- going from -8 degrees at the tips to -4).
Both the Hortens and Northrup kept pushing the CG back and relaxing the reflex angle as their deigns progressed. At a certain point, the wing becomes divergent- i.e.- it will increasingly want to flick out of control and will do a "snap" or accelerated stall easily. So will regular cruciform aircraft if you push it.
Flying wings have other advantages- as they carry the load in the wing, which allows you to place loads that would have gone in a fuselage out in the wing. Unfortunately- again- most of the available volume in a chevron wing us behind the center of gravity, tempting the designer to push the CG back.
These days fly by wire allows you to have an impossibly rearward CH, with the planes 4-channel-redundant flight control system correcting the divergence under control. If you do manage to stall the plane is unrecoverable, and the only option is to bail out.
>>28089355
they did and still could not make it fast enough.
